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When will DX11 be widespread?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 22, 2010 7:22:09 AM

i really want a DX11 GPU to eventually replace my gtx 260, but......

looking at the few DX11 games, they do not use DX11 features as extensively as the Heaven benchmark yet, and by the time that there will be many dx11 games with good use of dx11 features, the hd 5000s and gtx 400s will be outdated...

so, should i be better off waiting for gtx 600s or hd 6000s?

along with maybe the new bulldozer processor for my am3 gigabyte board? just wondering... it''s a phenom ii x3 720 at 3.5 ghz by the way....

More about : dx11 widespread

a c 376 U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 7:26:03 AM

If your GTX 260 is still doing the job well I wouldn't worry about it.
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 7:27:35 AM

I imagine DX11 will be integrated in the majority of games within 6 months. once fermi is released, you can expect Dx11 to become much more standard.

it always takes time for new tech to be implemented, but devs are much more excited for Dx11 than any previous versions, and already uptake has been quick.

you don;t need to rush out to get a Dx11 capable card, but i think you will want one long before the next generation of cards.
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March 22, 2010 7:42:55 AM

Dx11 wont see much light until may be 2012 when the new generation of consoles are expected (or even later). It sucks but all games are now implemented toward consoles. PCs are left behind.

Its just a financial reasoning but PC users suffer. There will be single titles here and there but nothing major and nothing TRULY dx11
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March 22, 2010 7:46:37 AM

what is the definition of truly DX11?

so, if you're saying it takes two years to get to that point? then what? maybe i should wait out this generation? just wondering though....

i wonder when someone will make a real DX11 game, not "alien vs predator" half-assed dx11.
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March 22, 2010 7:51:30 AM

welshmousepk said:
I imagine DX11 will be integrated in the majority of games within 6 months. once fermi is released, you can expect Dx11 to become much more standard.

it always takes time for new tech to be implemented, but devs are much more excited for Dx11 than any previous versions, and already uptake has been quick.

you don;t need to rush out to get a Dx11 capable card, but i think you will want one long before the next generation of cards.


ah i see...

a bit unrelated but, why you still have a dual-core? i thought tri-cores and quad-cores were all the rage, or games STILL aren't using all cores yet?
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 7:59:38 AM

Chronobodi said:
ah i see...

a bit unrelated but, why you still have a dual-core? i thought tri-cores and quad-cores were all the rage, or games STILL aren't using all cores yet?


my dual core is 'unlocked', meaning all 4 cores on the chip are active.

i wouldn't pay too much attention to rawsteel (don't mean that to sound so harsh), its a very pessimistic way to look at things.

already Dx11 uptake has been fantastic, and that before both major GPU manufacturers have Dx11 cards on the market. it really is much more than Dx10. while it may be a long time before we see entire engines built around it, implementation should be widespread fairly quickly compared to older versions.
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 8:10:53 AM

Quote:
DX11 cannot be guaranteed to go in any games.

It's entirely up to developers, and if they feel the featured of DX11 are suited for their games. Right now, I"m playing a wot of Bad Company 2. The developers only implemented a minimum amount of features that DX11 enables. They didn't add in multithreading, or tessellation, or a variety of other features that they could have.

DX11 features are up to the discretion of the developer. And honestly, all those extra features and details add cost to development. You can make a crysis type games that adds a ton of details and only high end systems can show all the details available. But why add details that systems can't use? Why add extra development costs that gamers (by and large) can't turn on?


i fear turning this into a flame thread, but perhaps research before posting?

of course we only have small implementations of Dx11 so far, the API has only been available a short time, and a game takes years to produce. the games we have seen it in were near-finished when Dx11 launched, yet devs still chose to include some of its features (a large number of devs so far) which is incredibly promising.

its not about adding features that 'cannot be used' Dx11 offers whole new ways to process graphics, that actually offer performance increases. the fact the Dx11 capable hardware actually has independent tessellation cores that go unused without the feature being active, proves that adding it doesn't mean that system resources are drained. tessellation in fact is one of the more exciting features of Dx11, as it offers great performance increases. or the ability to greatly improve the visual features of a scene by greatly increasing polygon count, as well as adding a displacement map, without requiring huge additional resources.

there is much more to Dx11 than just some new visual effects, so perhaps you should learn a little about it before saying how pointless it is.
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March 22, 2010 8:50:51 AM

In all fairness the adoption rate of DX11 even in it's infancy is much better then what DX10 was, AMD reckon there will be over 20 DX11 titles out by the end of year. However to get the most out of DX11 will take 5 years, compare DX9 games when they first showed up compared to DX9 games of 2006 and 2007 (and even today).
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March 22, 2010 9:04:58 AM

JeanLuc said:
In all fairness the adoption rate of DX11 even in it's infancy is much better then what DX10 was, AMD reckon there will be over 20 DX11 titles out by the end of year. However to get the most out of DX11 will take 5 years, compare DX9 games when they first showed up compared to DX9 games of 2006 and 2007 (and even today).



huh, are those first DX9 games actually based in DX8 with some DX9 features and then gradually it eventually becomes a full-blown DX9 game?
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 9:13:28 AM

That is usually how it happens.
Game developers would be shooting them selves in their collective foots if they released native DX11 games at this point.
Reason being, there are far to few people with the proper hardware support in place.

Instead they will continue making their games DX10 based with partial implementation of DX11 features where hardware support is available.
This will give those who have DX11 hardware better visuals/performance while still maintaining compatibility with the majority of the user base.
While the dev interest in DX11 looks to be very healthy, I would not expect a native DX11 game for at least another year or so.
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 9:32:15 AM

Don'g expect large numbers of DX11 games until everyone attached to Xp finally leaves it and enough people upgrade to DX11 hardware. Developers won't waste money making a game that few people can run it, it's why the current Dx11 games also run in Dx10/Dx9 modes.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 9:37:13 AM

Im going to echo what jyjjy posted, as long as your card is doing a decent job i would stick with it at this point. Unless you want to run eyefinity then there really is no point to me anyway in changing to a dx11 card yet.
Dx11 is as posted so much more than another step up the graphics scale and it incorperates some nice features that once full inplementation is here will help increase performance and quality, Compute shaders being the main thing here i guess.
Whan DX11 was first brought to light we were told that devs would be able to work in DX11 and DX10 systems would just not use the DX11 features as DX11 is a superset of DX10/10.1. However it seems to be that its a little more complicated than that otherwise they would be doing so.
Bottom line is that there isnt enough support for the features to make it worth while in my opinion. kinda like getting a quad a couple of years ago. Now a Quad makes sense as more games are showing improvements when using a Quad. I expect the same sort of time frame with DX11.
Im waiting this generation out and will look again when the 6 series gets here.

Mactronix
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 10:40:10 AM

DX11 will be implemented when the majority of HW and SW supports it.

Right now, about 5% of the market is DX11 capable in HW (5000 series), and only 40% of OS installs even support DX10/11 (and thats on the assumption EVERY Vista install downloaded the DX11 patch).

Again, it takes YEARS for most API's to gain a foothold; even DX9 took a year and a half to really start taking over, and that was without the spectre of a new OS install for support...
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March 22, 2010 2:16:54 PM

I feel that dx11 will be implemented sooner rather than later because it gives you much better performance in dx10 mode and it makes your games look gorgeous! Sure developers don't have to implement it but they still will because that is the direction it is going.

I had a HD4870 it did play all my games fine....But it didn't play a lot of games maxed out at 1680x1050 like i wanted it to. One being Crysis another being S.T.A.L.K.E.R Call of priapyt i want every setting on ultra i want 16x AF filtering and i want at least 2x AA and the HD4870 just cant do this with a lot of titles.

Some say there is not a big difference when using dx11 right now over dx10 well that is just false! In S.T.A.L.K.E.R when enabling tessellation suddenly round object's are actually round! In dx10 mode they are like 8 sided octagon's and once you see them better it just look's funny to look at them any other way!

NPC's armor suddenly pour with very fine detail's! The suit's have much more detail and look much better when using dx11, for me i just don't want to see it any other way!

And the best thing about it is i can look forward to the next dx11 title and what that might look like! Because with every title that comes out they will implement more and more dx11 features! It keep's me excited about gaming!

I am an eye candy junkie!

So i think dx11 will be here sooner rather than later! I think by the end of this year most titles will have dx11 support and a few titles will be implementing it extensively and those titles will look just awesome! At this point there is really no going back dx10 is all it is ever going to be with Crysis dx11 is the future it look's better and run's better i will be enjoying my HD5870 for next year of gaming!
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 3:14:50 PM

*sigh*.

People, understand, companies do NOT spend hundreds of man hours adding a feature that very few people can run. DX9 and DX10+ also require two different rendering engines, hence why so few games ditch DX9 (and those that do tend to always sell badly in the long run).

I'l say it again, we're DX9 for a good year and a half before we see any significant change.
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 3:15:18 PM

I also note, if everyone just went OpenGL, we wouldn't have these types of software compatability issues...
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March 22, 2010 3:21:10 PM

I care about DX11

But I care more about good games

If good games were not DX11, I'd prefer it more than a crappy DX11 game

Ex) My personaly fav COD Mw2 and my all time fav CounterStrike

But a DX11 COD Mw would be nice .. /slur
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a c 107 U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 3:26:28 PM

^@gamerk - If The Khronos Group got their act together OpenGL could once again rival DX as a leading standard, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon.


Anyway, you have to understand that DX11 cards only came out in September. A few lucky developers got to work with a 5770 perhaps a month or two before that. While that has allowed DX11 to be thrown into a few games like Battle Forge, it will take a while for other developers to finish their DX11 implementations. I expect to see more games released by the summer with DX11 added on, and perhaps by September for most new games released to include DX11. It probably won't be till next year that we see a game coded with DX11 in mind rather than just added on at the end.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 7:47:52 PM

gamerk316 said:
People, understand, companies do NOT spend hundreds of man hours adding a feature that very few people can run.

So then Dirt 2, Battleforge, Stalker:COP, AvsP, BF:BC2 and Metro 2033 don't actually exist?
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2010 8:02:38 PM

What they are actually adding to any one game, adds up to more marketing hype for being cutting edge, and to help justify new hardware for sellers and owners. Heres what AvP promised. If you don't have dx11 are you not seeing this ? I don't know. I don't have dx11 :) 
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a c 130 U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 12:12:24 AM

jyjjy said:
So then Dirt 2, Battleforge, Stalker:COP, AvsP, BF:BC2 and Metro 2033 don't actually exist?


Just pull your head in ok, gamer understands this stuff on a level that you post quite plainly proves you don't.
It is a fact,no matter how many people that seem to know and also those who we do know know whats what want to wish it were different that the bottom line is that until there is wide spread hardware and software support for these new features and DX paths, the support by which i mean games coded to take advantage of then just wont be financially feasible so wont exist.
If M$ decided to bankroll such a game which i think they should then it might happen sooner but i wouldn't hold your breath if i was you.
The games you mention only go to prove the point being just games with a sprinkle of DX 11 much like Crysis was a game with DX 10 sprinkles.

Mactronix
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a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 12:23:28 AM

I don't even care about any DX11 benefits in AVP or not - they need to fix the buggy/glitchy/sh*tty gameplay first.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 12:53:36 AM

mactronix said:

The games you mention only go to prove the point being just games with a sprinkle of DX 11 much like Crysis was a game with DX 10 sprinkles.

Mactronix


Isn't that the only way it can be? DX11 can't function without it's DX1-10 roots. There isn't that many new things, it mostly is just an improved DX10 plus a couple new features.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 1:52:54 AM

mactronix said:
Just pull your head in ok, gamer understands this stuff on a level that you post quite plainly proves you don't.
It is a fact,no matter how many people that seem to know and also those who we do know know whats what want to wish it were different that the bottom line is that until there is wide spread hardware and software support for these new features and DX paths, the support by which i mean games coded to take advantage of then just wont be financially feasible so wont exist.
If M$ decided to bankroll such a game which i think they should then it might happen sooner but i wouldn't hold your breath if i was you.
The games you mention only go to prove the point being just games with a sprinkle of DX 11 much like Crysis was a game with DX 10 sprinkles.

Mactronix

Whether you personally find them impressive or not those games DO contain DX11 features to varying degrees. Their existence directly contradicts the statement you made that I was replying to. You may make some good points but when you go overboard it just makes people rightfully dismiss what you have to say. Tone things back so people will take you seriously(and also reread your posts before submitting, the above post is a grammar train wreck.)
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a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 1:59:24 AM

+1 to jyjjy

there are already some very impressive Dx11 features out there (AvP, STALKER and BC2 to name a few) and thats before Dx11 hardware is readily available or widely used.

Dx11 WILL be a big deal, its just a matter of how long.
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a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 3:39:04 AM

You can bet that all the GOOD games will feature DX11.

I can put money on a few that will definitely have DX11. Like Portal 2 or Crysis 2 (I would shoot myself if they don't have DX11 but that isn't possible)

but these are major PC titles. Console ports might not sport DX11 but I have more things to worry about console ports than DX11. Like mouse acceleration. I hope I can travel back in time to kill the guy to invent mouse acceleration so he can never ruin console ports.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 4:14:40 AM

I believe Crysis 2 is already confirmed as DX11.
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March 23, 2010 6:47:18 AM

ah i see... k, quick poll...

should i get this generation or the next one?
And, will it be another 2 years until the HD 6000s/GTX 600s?
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a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 6:53:40 AM

These dates are pretty difficult to predict right now. HD5xxx is out only now. For nVidia they are finding it difficult to get their GT 300's into the market. So GT600 is long long long way away.

And yes, you should get a generation next one if you have the cash.
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a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 7:01:20 AM

a GTX260 will still handle most games fairly well. its a choice you have to make yourself really, if you want more performance then an upgrade could offer a significant increase. the jump would be much more noticeable if you wait another generation though.

i imiagine we will see ATI's 6xxx series early next year, with fermis successor likely coming just after. that is, baring any major architecture changes that would increase development time.
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March 23, 2010 7:09:56 AM

the way i see it is that DX11 games (hard-coded rather than added-in like AvP) won't be around until at LEAST mid 2011, and by then there might be better cards anyway. and i expect at least a 2.5 times better performance than the current GTX 260.
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a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 7:15:22 AM

Chronobodi said:
the way i see it is that DX11 games (hard-coded rather than added-in like AvP) won't be around until at LEAST mid 2011, and by then there might be better cards anyway. and i expect at least a 2.5 times better performance than the current GTX 260.


this is true. though if you are waiting for entire game engines to be coded around DX11, you will miss alot in the interim. it takes a LONG time to develop a game (i believe the average is about 3 years from initial stages through to a game going gold)

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a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2010 10:09:59 AM

rofl_my_waffle said:
You can bet that all the GOOD games will feature DX11.

I can put money on a few that will definitely have DX11. Like Portal 2 or Crysis 2 (I would shoot myself if they don't have DX11 but that isn't possible)

but these are major PC titles. Console ports might not sport DX11 but I have more things to worry about console ports than DX11. Like mouse acceleration. I hope I can travel back in time to kill the guy to invent mouse acceleration so he can never ruin console ports.


Portal 2 is a source based game. Valve have not moved to dx10 yet, let alone dx11 and probably won't anytime soon.
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a b U Graphics card
March 24, 2010 1:31:31 AM

strangestranger said:
Portal 2 is a source based game. Valve have not moved to dx10 yet, let alone dx11 and probably won't anytime soon.


thats because valve are probably the laziest collective of game develpers on earth.

10 bucks says portal 2 is more like an extended map pack than an entirely new game.
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a b U Graphics card
March 24, 2010 4:30:41 AM

ah i see... k, quick poll...

should i get this generation or the next one?
And, will it be another 2 years until the HD 6000s/GTX 600s?

said:
ah i see... k, quick poll...

should i get this generation or the next one?
And, will it be another 2 years until the HD 6000s/GTX 600s?



wait for the refresh from both companies, that would be a 5890 and a gtx400 rebadged to gtx500 (to make nvidia feel good about themselves)

i own a gtx260 myself. i was torn between a hardware upgrade and a new gym equipment. i went with the latter as my current gpu works absolutely fine.
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a b U Graphics card
March 24, 2010 8:23:32 AM

Valve are hardly lazy. They just work on valve time.

Of course source does not need updating for what it needs to do. They will no doubt be working on an update but they do go for maximum compatability so everyone can play there games rather than a few.
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April 29, 2010 6:41:43 AM

notty22 said:
What they are actually adding to any one game, adds up to more marketing hype for being cutting edge, and to help justify new hardware for sellers and owners. Heres what AvP promised. If you don't have dx11 are you not seeing this ? I don't know. I don't have dx11 :) 


i've played AVP, basically they only used tessellation on the alien model, in which the rounded part of the alien's head is TRULY rounded.

Without tessellation, if you looked closely enough, you can see little polygons or something, it's hard to explain.

better analogy would be this:

no tesselation
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4MUf6T4VzPw/SNaGfUsie9I/AAAAA...

tesselation
http://www.piecegallery.co.nz/images/lg_images/Anna-Wal...

That's what it is, but on a smaller scale.
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a b U Graphics card
April 29, 2010 6:57:07 AM

lol, this is actually a very good analogy. shame you had to resurrect an old thread to post it.
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April 29, 2010 7:10:36 AM

hmm, maybe i'll make a "Tesselation for Dummies" thread...
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a c 365 U Graphics card
April 29, 2010 4:39:22 PM

DX11 will become standard by the time Microsoft announces the imminent release of DX12.

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a b U Graphics card
April 29, 2010 7:11:35 PM

^^ Wait, so that means DX10 has become standard?

Seriously, as long as 60% of the market can't run DX10, you will see the remains of the DX9 code path. And since DX10+ requires you to completely re-design your rasterizer, you'll continue to see lots of DX9 releases. Throw in the multiple generations of DX10 hardware, and you'll see it also makes sense to include DX10 over DX11, simply due to installed user base.

As Activision has recently shown, its all about the $$$.

Nevermind that I think we've basically hit our limit of what Rasterization can do...I'd argue that at this point, we may as well just start the transition to Ray Tracing (or even easier: finding a way to display the raw 3d Vector graphics on a 2d display in 3d, making the concept of a GPU obsolete)
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a b U Graphics card
April 29, 2010 9:17:26 PM

You know I am going to bring out the steam survey gamer as is the tradition nowadays which shows the majority can now play dx10 games. The amount with only dx9 hardware is very low.

I sincerely how you are not including those abominations that consoles in your figues. How long are you going to keep this up.
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a c 365 U Graphics card
April 30, 2010 3:28:38 AM

gamerk316 said:
^^ Wait, so that means DX10 has become standard?

Seriously, as long as 60% of the market can't run DX10, you will see the remains of the DX9 code path. And since DX10+ requires you to completely re-design your rasterizer, you'll continue to see lots of DX9 releases. Throw in the multiple generations of DX10 hardware, and you'll see it also makes sense to include DX10 over DX11, simply due to installed user base.



DX12 is not expected to be released until 2012 when Windows 8 is expected to be introduced. That's two years away which means the gamer install base of Vista / Win 7 should outweigh the gamer install base of Windows XP by that point in time. My assumption is based on gamers who wants to upgrade their system eventually; that doesn't necessarily mean they will all abandon Win XP, but it's logical to assume that a large percentage will especially if they buy brand name PC.

DX10 never became standard because Windows Vista has only been out for about three years before the introduction of Windows 7. It is pretty much well known that Vista was not as successful as Microsoft hoped it would be. Thus, with a relatively small install base, it would not be in the best interest of all game developers to spend additional resources for something with a relatively small install base. Win 7 is more widely accepted than Vista was

I think many games (but not all) coming out in 2012 are currently under development right now. It would be logical for most developers to incorporate DX11 now if they have not already. Not an expert on DirectX, but I would assume DX11 is more or less DX10 with additional features which were disabled or entirely new. Therefore, I would believe DX11 games will still be backwards compatible with DX10. DX9 is another matter, I think DX9 will supported by most new games up until 2013 or 2014 at the latest.

It is correct that the install base of DX10 cards currently outweigh DX11 cards, but by 2012 that should change. Since I believe DX11 is more or less a superset of DX10 plus other functions, it shouldn't be too much of a big deal to simply go with DX11 over DX10. What will DX12 bring us? I wouldn't know especially since I'm still playing games on Win XP and I don't purchase many games. The only game which I bought that used DX10 was Crysis; Fallout 3 was not a DX10 game and neither was X3 - Terran Conflict (to the best of my knowledge).
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