New PC build $2000 willing, Or whatever is necessary.

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: Next Month. Sooner the better as i do need it.


BUDGET RANGE: I live in Australia, but US dollars are closer to AUS dollar more than ever now, so it should be pretty accurate. I suppose around $2000 i'm Willing to spend. Want best bang for buck in most places though.

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Okay, so i will be working in 3D software packages including Maya, Zbrush, Mudbox. 3D rendering.
Pretty much everything ADOBE CS4. GAMING is also important for this rig. HD movie playback and rendering, (after effects, premiere pro etc) umm.
All the other usual stuff, internet etc. But as you can see it needs to be powerful for my work.


PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Dont need monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers. OS

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Maybe purchase from the US as they are cheaper than here in Australia. I guess newegg would be good, i need to get some information on 3rd party shipping though, (it may cost too much to ship so possibly purchase in australia) Know any?. Ebay is good. I also may get prices from locals over here.

PARTS PREFERENCES: Intel CPU. Other parts, i actually don't know much about certain brands, so no preference in terms of Asus, gigabyte etc etc.

OVERCLOCKING: Yes

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1080x1920 HD. Possibly have multiple moniter setup in the future.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: Powerfull..

Parts:

So i've obviously come here because i need some help and suggestions with parts and if something won't work or what not.

Intel i7 920 or 930. these CPU's seem to be the most popular, price and performance i think are considered best bang for buck. In terms of how much i want to spend on performance. These cpus can also overclock well as i hear, so i will want to overclock for more performance.

Motherboard - Another thing to note is that i am not a crazy PC builder that will upgrade all the time, in fact this will be the first build it yourself PC for me. So i sort of want to be fairly future proof. With that said, a new motherboard that supports USB 3.0 and sata 6gbps is something i think i should get now. Unless you can convince me otherwise. Moving a bit forward, i think i want crossfire support so its also future proof. What kind of boards can you recommend? And what other information should i provide?

GPU- Okay, so i've waited so long for the new nvidia fermi to come out.. Which was a mistake in my opinion, because it didn't really do anything for me.. Which is why after 6 months i think i'm going to still stick with a ATi 5850, what do you guys think?
Tessellation and DX11 is also just a new feature i want to have. The 5850 then, is probably the price vs performance for what i need.. If need be, i can always get another 5850 and hit up crossfire down the track..
Someone with 2 5850's that i asked said he sort of wished he just bought the 5970 to begin with. I'm not sure why, its more expensive (here it australia at least, if i look online briefly, the 5850 can be had for $350 and the 5970 is at around $900.)
Can someone perhaps explain to me why? Dont 2 5850's perform better than a 5970 anyway? Plus you have money left over, (maybe not much in US?). Anything apart from bragging rights..??

RAM - I read that in terms of performance, there is not a GREAT deal difference when it comes to comparing the speed and timings of Ram.. But again, i don't know heaps about this stuff. What do you guys think i would need?

Case, PSU, Cooling, Harddrive, CD/DVD drive.

These things i haven't looked into as much as other parts. Please i would like your recomendations. Note, i suppose i will be overclocking a fair bit. So some pretty good stuff may be required to keep it cool.
Hard drive. With the new interfaces, usb 3 and sata 6gbps. What kind of hard drives are best for running your OS and other software on? Come and list some.

Thanks to you if you've read this far. I hope you can help me in my first building a PC attempt. Please recommend products.
39 answers Last reply
More about build 2000 willing necessary
  1. Here's my standard $2,000ish build, with extra RAM (based entirely on US prices...):

    CPU/Mobo: i7-930 and Asus P6X58D Premium $575. The 930 is an improved 920, and they cost about the same. The board is extremely high quality and very future proof.
    RAM: 2x G.Skill Pi 3x2 GB 1600 mhz CAS Latency 7 $380
    GPU: HD 5970 $700. The 5850 is very weak for your budget. This is literally the best card on the market. I do think you should reconsider the new nVidia cards, as they are historically better for renderin/workstation activites. If gaming was your only priority for the GPU, the 5970 would be perfect. The reason the 5970 is better than two 5850s is that technically the 5970 is two 5870s on one card, only downclocked to the speeds of 5850s. Also, you still have the option of adding a second 5970 down the road.
    HDD: Seagate 7200.12 1 TB $85. New HDDs that actually use SATA III don't exist yet. The SATA III drives aren't any faster and quite a bit more expensive.
    PSU: OCZ Z Series 850W 80+ Gold $190 after rebate
    Case: HAF 922 $80 after rebate
    Optical: Cheap SATA DVD burner $22
    HSF: Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus $35 (with free card reader)

    Total: $2,067
  2. This is going to be a very ugly, "quick-n-dirty" cut-n-paste from my two carts ... One at tiger.com and the other at newegg.com.

    The PNY 9800GT-EE cards (one or, better, two of these ... not available at newegg).
    Price: $105.99
    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] u=P56-9824

    These 28" LCDs are perfect for edit workspace ... get two or don't get any.

    I-Inc iH-282HPB 28" Class Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1920 x 1200, 15000:1 Dynamic, 16:10, 3ms, VGA, HDMI
    Price: $319.99
    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] u=H94-2804

    **********************************
    Everything else comes from newegg . . . This is where the formatting gets ugly.
    **********************************
    In no particular order . . .

    KINGWIN 15.74" SATA Data & Power combo cable Model SAC-04
    Item #: N82E16812226004
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $2.99
    select item 2 quantity of item 2

    BYTECC 18" Serial ATA-150/300 Cable w/Locking Latch Model SATA-118C
    Item #: N82E16812270093
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $2.89


    NEWEGG QUOTE INCLUDES TWO OF THESE
    SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
    Item #: N82E16822152185
    ($89.99 each)


    GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H AM3 AMD 890GX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
    Item #: N82E16813128435
    $139.99

    CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 ...
    Item #: N82E16817139005
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy -$30.00 Instant
    $89.99

    Logitech MX518 8 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical Gaming Mouse
    Item #: N82E16826104178
    $39.99

    SABRENT CRW-UINB 68-in-1 USB 2.0 Internal Card Reader w/ USB 2.0 Port supports SDHC/VISTA
    Item #: N82E16820300608
    $12.99

    SIIG 3 Ports FireWire 800 PCIe Card Model NN-FW0012-S1
    Item #: N82E16815150151
    $49.99

    G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7Q-8GBRM
    Item #: N82E16820231329
    Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy $249.99

    AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ965FBGMBOX
    Item #: N82E16819103727
    $180.99

    Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
    Item #: N82E16832116758
    $139.99

    SONY Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 9 Pro Pack
    Item #: N82E16832135216
    Return Policy: Software Standard Return Policy -$35.00 Instant
    ($94.95 each)

    COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long ...
    Item #: N82E16835103065
    $34.99

    Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH080G2R5 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
    Item #: N82E16820167023
    $224.99

    (CASE & DVDR COMBO DEAL)

    Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
    Item #: N82E16811129066
    Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy

    SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM
    Item #: N82E16827151188
    -$10.00 Combo
    $96.98
    $86.98

    ============
    Subtotal: $1,536.64
    ============

    Calculate ShippingZip Code: . FedEx 3Day Express Saver -- $139.37FedEx 2Day -- $201.20FedEx Standard Overnight -- $237.95UPS Guaranteed 3 Day Service -- $32.52UPS 2nd Day -- $112.68UPS Next Day Saver -- $123.96 GO Shipping: $32.52

    Grand Total: $1,569.16

    SO ... WITH THE TWO 9800GT-EE GPUs, (NO MONITORS) ... SHIPPED TO AUSTIN, TX. ... THE COMPLETE, "KITCHEN SINK" BUILD COSTS . . .

    ~~ $ 1,782.00 (INCLUDING Win7-64 AND A $95 copy of VEGAS)

    That's it ... mix-n-match !!
  3. forgot something very important ...

    COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU Cooler

    $34.99

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835103065

    Hyper 212 Plus wins a 10/10 review from Maximum PC
  4. AMD for a $2,000 computational build? That's not good at all. Yes, it will be cheaper, but it will not be anywhere near in terms of performance.
  5. What ? . . . 80% of the performance for 50% of the cost ?

    You would have to OC the 2.8Ghz 930 fairly maximally to reach the STOCK 3.4GHz of the 965.

    My build also includes a SCREAMING "system & apps" SSD .. 8GB RAM .. 2 respectable GPUs and supports up to 4 monitors on 550Watts (I spec'd 650Watts for GPU upgrd).
    . . . not to mention often overlooked add-ons like more firewire ports and includes OS and extras ad-nauseum. Sometimes display real-estate can do more to boost productivity, as well as faster storage.

    If you have completely mastered your tools and you use your system to earn an $86K engineering design salary ... If "the company" is paying ... sure ... Socket 1366.

    Remember that, with CS4 "workstations", come some VERY expensive software tool-sets and extra peripherals (which are included in MY build ... maxed out, for WAY less) !
  6. And,

    Radeons are *completely* inappropriate for CS4 builds !

    Sorry, Sir, ... Show me *ONE* CS4 or AVID or BORIS or ACAD turnkey build that specifies RADEON ... They DO NOT EXIST !

    nVidia 9800GT-EE or 250GT or QuadroFX ... 2 cards if possible ... that is the way to go and there are reasons for that, not the least of which (last I heard) to be CUDA and OpenGL3.x implementation and compatibility. NO-body that I know of (no pro developer) specifies ATi for graphics builds.

    Will a Radeon work? ... For graphics? ... ATi (*if* they can hack it) SHOULD sponsor some head-to-head benches with CS4, ACAD, AVID, AFX, LightRoom, 3D motion titles and graphics renders ... Have never seen or heard of such ... enlighten us !

    = just funnin', here =
  7. Please tell me your joking. You can't just stick to the number blindly. If you looked at any benchmark, you'd see the i7s drastically out perform the X4 955/965. The hyperthreading of the i7 alone makes it much more of a computational monster.

    You obviously missed the part where my build had 12 GB of RAM.

    As for not having a SSD, I prefer to recommend something that actually increases performance over something that only makes it appear to be faster. SSDs are useful, just not at $3/GB.

    You also apparantly missed the fact that I fit an i7-930 under the budget. And that the OP didn't state anything about needing the extra crap. And if the OP did need it, I could make a single adjustment (5970 to a 5870 or 5850) and fit all of that in AND still be a more powerful build.

    EDIT: You also missed the part where the OP stated he wanted an ATI card, and I stated that he should reconsider that as nVidia cards are better for workstations.
  8. The compute core is certainly arguable and I laud the 12GB !!!

    Your choice for GPU doesn't just suck .. it is plain "not advisable"
    A simple search for "CS4 turnkey", at B&H (leading pro-supplier) yeilds . . .

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=cs4+turnkey&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

    I see lots of 9800GT-EEs ... Lots of QuadroFX ... Even a Mattrox ... BUT NO ATi ...

    ... Shall I repeat this same search at pro sites, all over the web? ... same results !!

    Regarding "all that other crap" ... The OP may have overlooked the need or importance.

    SSD? Now ... your statements are either uninformed or mis-leading ... which ?

    = Alvin =
  9. Again, I pointed out that ATI is not advisable for this type of build. And the ATI preference was leading me to believe it's more of a gaming build than a rendering build (hence my questioning in the first post).

    And my SSD statements are spot on. They're fast, but they're brand new technology. They don't actually speed up the computations of the computer (CPU, GPU or otherwise), they just make the loading of files/programs faster. Given the massive premium for them at this point, I cannot recommend them when there are better things to spend the money on (like the awesome CPU and more RAM). Had the OP's budget been $2,300, I would have thrown in a SSD in a heartbeat.
  10. I am not ragging on YOUR knowledge or your method and I now admit that I did not "listen" very well to you or the OP (Sir) ...

    ... I'll say this, tho ... If this is coming out of pocket and the system is not generating copius cash flow, then definately DO go with MY build ... 965+8GB ain't no slouch!

    ... Purely for LONG OUTPUT RENDERS ... yeah ... a well cooled 930 with 12GB will demolish my build ... but I expect the 965 will devastate the render times of my previous P4 by an even greater margin. More LCD real-estate (more/bigger LCDs) should not be under-rated, for creative productivity sessions ... nor should SSDs.

    My final build will have 3 SSDs and 2 HDDs ... to optimize task-specific pipelining.
    ... The 930 would (guessing) prolly cut your render times by 30% but the extra/larger LCDs and SSDs *will* streamline your typical creative workflow sessions ... kick off that BIG render before you go to lunch ... or just before you go to sleep.

    = Alvin =
  11. The i7-930 at stock would devastate the X4 955/965. Heck, it would beat an overclocked X4 while at stock too.

    While the points about the LCDs and SSDs MAY be true, they're also things that can be changed easily after the final build for very little cost. The same is not true for the CPU. To get better render times over the X4 955 (which is the same chip as the 965), you'd need to spend $725 for the i7-930, X58 board and the extra 2 sticks of RAM (total of 12 GB, 6x2 GB), not counting the $100 for a new OEM copy of Windows. Seems to me that it'd be better to invest in those performance changes now and add the other "would be nice to have" items over time.
  12. @OP

    ... And, BTW, TWO 9800GT-EE cards (SLI) make a pretty mean gaming rig ...

    ... I'm Guessing they would be about as quick as a single 5830 (5770?)

    = ? =
  13. I'd rather just get a single GTX 470/480 instead of two older cards...
  14. MadAdmiral said:
    The i7-930 at stock would devastate the X4 955/965. Heck, it would beat an overclocked X4 while at stock too.

    While the points about the LCDs and SSDs MAY be true, they're also things that can be changed easily after the final build for very little cost. The same is not true for the CPU. To get better render times over the X4 955 (which is the same chip as the 965), you'd need to spend $725 for the i7-930, X58 board and the extra 2 sticks of RAM (total of 12 GB, 6x2 GB), not counting the $100 for a new OEM copy of Windows. Seems to me that it'd be better to invest in those performance changes now and add the other "would be nice to have" items over time.


    And, on the other side of the same coin ...

    Why go "ALL IN" on an X58/930 now, when INTEL has not even bothered to provide PCIe2.0 bandwidth on crucial PCIe x4 and x1 lanes ?? ....

    This AM3 board will get me ~2 years down the road, in good style, with FULL cadbus bandwidth and I can invest in ALL those other factors and components that make a real difference in everyday workload ... full backups will be faster ... I can fully exploit extral FW800 ports and slot-drives and capture cards that INTEL simply cannot saturate with PCIe1.1.

    At the end of two years, this AM3 mobo will make a bichen HTPC, file/print server, home-office/homework system, or side-render system.

    Most ALL of the components, including 3 sticks of 1600c7 and the HSF can migrate (respectably) to a more sensibly balanced and affordable INTEL build, when INTEL finally decides to make a REAL southbridge.

    = Al =
  15. What the hell are you talking about? It's the X58 chipset that doesn't restrict the bandwith on the PCIe 2.0 slots, not the AM3 chipset.

    Intel already has a "bichen" HTPC board. It's called the H55, which when paired with the i3/i5 dual cores offers amazing integrated graphics. This creates a full HD HTPC for $100 less than any AMD option (due to the need of a GPU). Not only that, but the i3/i5 dual cores are also decent at rendering and other CPU tasks because of the hyperthreading, though not quite as good some of the higher end AM3 X4s.
  16. MadAdmiral said:
    I'd rather just get a single GTX 470/480 instead of two older cards...



    Well, the 9800GT-EE has some very desirable features which I would like to share, in case you are unaware.

    1) OpenGL3.0 (nVidia's implementation)

    2) Cost is $105 (before substantial rebate) per card.

    3) Uses 30% less power (75Watts max draw) but can be OC'd with higher fan speed)

    4) TRUE SINGLE SLOT design (front to back) ... leaves ALL PCIe SLOTS OPEN! This is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for pro-edit/graphics !!!!!!!!

    5) DOES support SLI and combined CUDA compute support (DirectX10.1) & HDCP

    6) Does NOT require 6-pin power (I would actually prefer it did use 6-pin)

    7) MORE Quiet! ... low fan speed/noise helps for project studio voice-over recording.

    8) Short card ... Fits any non-lo-profile ATX case. (& Older/smaller PSUs).

    9) Also makes a very respectable gaming rig (x2-SLI/OC)

    10) Two cards will support up to 4x ACTIVE 1920x1200/1080P mons and provide a FULL 2GB of dedicated GDDR3 memory, equally balanced. nVidia's multi-mon drivers are WAY better than Eyefinity, for ws apps.

    11) nothing ... I just like the number "11"
  17. MadAdmiral said:
    What the hell are you talking about? It's the X58 chipset that doesn't restrict the bandwith on the PCIe 2.0 slots, not the AM3 chipset.

    Intel already has a "bichen" HTPC board. It's called the H55, which when paired with the i3/i5 dual cores offers amazing integrated graphics. This creates a full HD HTPC for $100 less than any AMD option (due to the need of a GPU). Not only that, but the i3/i5 dual cores are also decent at rendering and other CPU tasks because of the hyperthreading, though not quite as good some of the higher end AM3 X4s.



    Begging your pardon, Sir. ... Am I not understanding this Tom's Hardware Article ???? !

    Why go INTEL before they go PCIe3.0 ? (Or EVEN PCIe 2.0 !!)

    ** HOLD YOUR [CNTRL] key down while clicking this link !

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/usb-3.0-sata-6gb,2583.html


    =QUOTE = >>

    Bottlenecks And Solutions For USB 3.0 And SATA 6Gb/s
    2:00 AM - March 24, 2010 by Patrick Schmid and Achim Roos

    AMD vs. Intel?

    For some reason, all Intel chipsets available today only support PCI Express 2.0 on the primary links that are used for graphics. This applies to the 4- and 5-series chipsets employing the ICH10 southbridge. While Intel claims PCI Express 2.0 support on those links, it limits throughput to PCI Express 1.1-class performance. This is naturally a problem when we start looking at the latest high-speed motherboard-down controllers.

    AMD, on the other hand, upgraded the link speeds on its 700- and 800-series chipsets, which means that current AMD mainstream and enthusiast chipsets don’t create bandwidth bottlenecks for high-speed add-on devices.

    We took three P55 motherboards from Gigabyte and MSI that all come with different solutions to offer USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s connectivity. We analyzed SATA performance using Crucial’s new RealSSD-C300 and a Seagate Barracuda XT with support for the third-gen standard and found that not all solutions deliver ample bandwidth.

    All AMD 700 and 800 chipsets (both northbridge and southbridge) fully support PCI Express 2.0, while Intel’s PCIe 2.0 support is limited to the northbridge/processor-based interface (the company continues claiming PCIe 2.0 support on platforms like P55, despite the 2.5 Gb/s limitation). This is why it's unlikely you'll encounter bandwidth bottlenecks on AMD platforms.
    . . . .
    ===== END QUOTE (but the article goes ON and ON and ON ... =======
  18. 1.) 470/480 supports 3.2
    2.) Got me there...
    3.) More power balances the power consumption
    4.) Debatable if those extra slots are really needed
    5.) Same with the 470/480, but with DX 11
    7.) Nothing anywhere said about voice recording needed, so it doesn't really matter. Also, this can be minimized with good cases.
    8.) Doesn't matter if you buy a good case.
    9.) Only when used in multiple card solutions, and then the cost is not a good thing, nor is the power requirement, heat or the single slot "advantage".
    10.) Dedicated memory isn't as important as you would think, especially since the 470/480 have DDR5 memory. And drivers can be fixed at any time.

    On the drivers, obviously you missed the massive deal nVidia had where a new driver turned computers into bricks. So the whole "nVidia has better drivers" thing is totally destroyed right now...

    EDIT: That point on PCIe 2.0 is moot. Right now, the only great use of PCIe 2.0 slots is graphics, which Intel does better. Also, it appears the testing was done on the P55 chipsets, not the X58, but I can't be certain as the link doesn't work.
  19. WELL, I injected my comments into the body of your text ... point-by-point, below . . .


    MadAdmiral said:
    1.) 470/480 supports 3.2
    GOT *ME* there ... Your card is 0.1 rev more modern (hot and pricey)
    2.) Got me there...
    . . . THIS IS AN ENORMOUS UNDERSTATEMENT ... yes ... I *DO*
    3.) More power balances the power consumption
    ROTFLOL slapping my knee and gasping for air (Sir) ... PLEASE ELUCIDATE !
    :lol: :lol: :lol:
    4.) Debatable if those extra slots are really needed
    NO DEBATE ! Video Capture, Independent dedicated Firewire, audio breakout, slot-drives, Ext RAID, codec accellerators, etc., etc., etc. !
    5.) Same with the 470/480, but with DX 11
    (DX10.1 vs. DX11 not crucial to pro graphics ... much more about gaming).
    7.) Nothing anywhere said about voice recording needed, so it doesn't really matter. Also, this can be minimized with good cases.
    SURE .. BUY a more expensive case to muffle that noisy expensive card !
    8.) Doesn't matter if you buy a good case.
    SURE .. ONE more thing to worry about ... These cards can have a great 2nd life, in ANY build (except slim-line/aka lo-profile). I KNOW that these cards will fit in my older case and can sip on my older PSU ... I like that and so will whomever I hand it down to ... I can put it in a u-ATX and pass it to the kid.
    9.) Only when used in multiple card solutions, and then the cost is not a good thing, nor is the power requirement, heat or the single slot "advantage".
    YOUR DESPARATION IS SHOWING !! This 2xSLI >>>Pro Graphics<<<
    system makes a MUCH better gaming system than trying to use an ATi game card as a pro edit/graphics solution! AND, BTW, With the cost of a 480, you could own a very respectable QuadroFX (but not game).
    10.) Dedicated memory isn't as important as you would think, especially since the 470/480 have DDR5 memory. And drivers can be fixed at any time.
    YA, SURE ... Not only MORE GDDR .. but BALANCED between 2 cards for better support of multi-mons and CUDA Combined Compute.

    On the drivers, obviously you missed the massive deal nVidia had where a new driver turned computers into bricks. So the whole "nVidia has better drivers" thing is totally destroyed right now...


    OH, BROTHER ! ... That DID happen (a temporary issue) while nVidia's LONG STANDING and VERY FRIENDLY multi-mon support is not debated by ANY knowledgable graphics pro. .. You are clouding the issues simply to make me seem less correct. It is EYEFINITY that SUCKS, IS FULL OF BUGS AND CAN ONLY BE DRIVEN BY ONE CARD (the primary GPU) and is not compatile with "squat" ... But ATi is very much aware and are committed to working out these issues ... IN COMING DECADES !!! [:bilbat:7]

    WHAT ABOUT #11 ?? Huh? ... Well ?? ... Cat got your toungue (Sir)?

    = :non: =
  20. MadAdmiral said:
    EDIT: That point on PCIe 2.0 is moot. Right now, the only great use of PCIe 2.0 slots is graphics, which Intel does better. Also, it appears the testing was done on the P55 chipsets, not the X58, but I can't be certain as the link doesn't work.


    It will be a gaping sore within 6 months. ALREADY, INTEL forces you to disable features, in order to enable others, due to lack of bandwidth.

    Sorry that link didn't work ... very convenient, ATM ... I suggest you search on it ... by author, if need be. THIS SHORTCOMING DOES INCLUDE X58 !!


    ONE MORE TIME !!! AND, I *DO* QUOTE: >>>>>>>>>>>>

    Bottlenecks And Solutions For USB 3.0 And SATA 6Gb/s
    2:00 AM - March 24, 2010 by Patrick Schmid and Achim Roos

    AMD vs. Intel?

    For some reason, **all** >Intel< chipsets available today **only** support PCI Express 2.0 on the primary links that are used for graphics.

    **** >>> This applies to the 4- and 5-series chipsets employing the ICH10 southbridge. While Intel claims PCI Express 2.0 support on those links, it limits throughput to PCI Express 1.1-class performance. This is naturally a problem when we start looking at the latest high-speed motherboard-down controllers.

    AMD, on the other hand, upgraded the link speeds on its 700- and 800-series chipsets, which means that current AMD mainstream and enthusiast chipsets don’t create bandwidth bottlenecks for high-speed add-on devices.

    :cry: :cry: :cry:

    = Al =
  21. can i just interupt here? you two are turning this into a flame thread. Its obvious mad admiral is a intel fanboy and alvin smith is a amd fanboy. why don't you stop fighting and let the person who started the thread actually decide what he wants. you two fighting is not going to help him. i mean your both trying to shove something down his throat. its his money not alvin's or admiral's. so both of you calm down.
  22. No, that wouldn't be obvious that I'm an Intel fanboy. Becasue I'm not an Intel fanboy. I'm for whatever part is best. In fact, I recommend AMD builds WAY more often than I do Intel builds. I am of the opinion that unless you're spending over $1,500, Intel is a bad choice UNLESS you have some specific needs (i.e. hardcore rendering and other CPU intensive tasks). And at a certain point, the cost savings of an AMD build aren't needed.

    As far as not helping the OP, I'm trying to keep the facts straight here, not trying to confuse the OP. It's a good idea to get all of the facts out there and where they matter (i.e. a shared feature CANNOT be a determining factor among choices).
  23. samdsox said:
    can i just interupt here? you two are turning this into a flame thread. Its obvious mad admiral is a intel fanboy and alvin smith is a amd fanboy. why don't you stop fighting and let the person who started the thread actually decide what he wants. you two fighting is not going to help him. i mean your both trying to shove something down his throat. its his money not alvin's or admiral's. so both of you calm down.



    This is NOT a flame war !! I have THE VERY HIGHEST RESPECT FOR THE ADMIRAL !

    This is just good clean fun AND it is VERY important stuff ! It is important to the OP and to both "The A" and to myself.

    The OP surely WILL decide and it IS his money! Both the Admiral and myself are VERY committed to ensuring that the OP does not waste money (unless he wants to).

    The next time I meet the Admiral on a pro-graphics thread, I expect the flames will not be very high. He is (almost) Always right and these are mostly philosophical and budgetary disputes which only arise due to our lack of knowing the OPs exact intentions and life-style.

    This whole thing started because we (as sometimes happens) both posted drastically different builds, simultaneously. If either of us had come into this thread any later, things would likely appear more civil.

    I have been doing a lot of very intensive and specific research into Video-Edit (post production) systems, of various budgets, just lately so, I am challenging my own conclusions, with the Admiral as a most worthy "advesary".

    This is all GREAT for the OP, great for us, and great for the community, at large, because these points and issues must be debated, clarified, corrected, if the customer is to be best served ...

    This conversation (these issues) has changed, just lately, and will continue to do so. You see, I read this ONE article (quoted) which kind of contradicts the staus quo of "common opinion".

    This is an important "fight" (debate) ... which SHOULD happen, for everybody's sake. If I am truly wrong, here ... I NEED TO KNOW IT FOR SURE ... same with the Admiral. We want the best dope we can get.

    = Al = (most respectfully ... as I am SURE you know).
  24. And, I came in here (this forum), not that long ago and *I* was DETERMINED to build a Socket 1366 system for Video-Edit & Render ... I have built 100s of computers, including a dozen of my very own and NEVER ONCE even entertained the thought of going the AMD route (that's for kids and gamers!) . . .

    Well, MadAdmiral and Short-Stuff and gKay and SO many other great techs have changed my mind with facts and benches and simple common logic. Mac Admiral was, yes, "key" in getting me to take a much closer look at AMD ...

    ... I have become a MONSTER ! *** I am a fanboy of "more-for-less", whenever possible.

    = Al =
  25. Best. Thread. Ever.
  26. Apology is in order ... SO SORRY! ... I promise ... IT WAS NOT MY FAULT !!

    http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/284562-31-what-motherboard-today#t2099648

    And, as usual ... "The Admiral is **ALWAYS** RIGHT !"

    (no "almost always" about it !! ... I'm still doing the 965 for *MY* build!)

    = go figger ! =
  27. Hey guys, thanks a lot for all this. It's hard where I should start, or better yet who i should start with... First of all, some more information.
    I'll be using a 46" HD Sony LCD as my monitor. input to HDMI through a 7.2 surround system amp. Working here means I don't need to dish out any more money on monitors when i already have.
    Ok. Remembering I am in Australia and shopping from newegg is something I cannot do so prices will vary, (dramatically in some cases).
    Like I said, I want to be getting price vs performance and don't want to go spending crazy, I should of emphasised that I am willing to drop 2k on this system because I don't buy often, however don't want to spend so much more because the price limit is there even though there isn't much performance gain.
    Ok. The GPU. Here in Australia, like i said the prices are different. The 5850 can be had for around $350 while the 5970 is $900. 5870 is $485. Nvidia 470 is $480 and the 480 can be had for $750.
    Ok. Now that's out of the way, in terms for PriceVPerformance the 5850 seems the most logical solution, even crossfire would leave me with 200 more dollars than getting the 5970. Is $130 more for a nvidia 470 worth it? Hmm, let's consider some more things I probably should have said earlier (my apologies). I'm pretty sure GPU rendering will be implemented in MAYA (Main software of use) soon. There is already a GPU renderer you can get, check out furryball renderer for maya. Whether this means that the rendering will benefit more from Nvidia solutions or ATi having more shader processes or something, i'm not sure. However, because rendering will be so much faster, i don't think it will be a really big issue anyway in terms of how long...
    Hmm..
    Memory? Should I really spend that much on RAM? Is 12GB really necessary? How much more performance difference would there be should I use half of that? (Admitedly I don't know a lot about RAM)

    Hard drive. Are USB 3.0 hard drives the fastest at the moment? Faster than Sata? Is it possible to boot from a USB 3 drive? Would it have good performance? (Again, I don't know a lot) Or do you need a HDD plugged into sata?
    Please educate me haha..

    I've spent a while on this post trying to think of other things to add, but i can't at the moment.. If there are more things for you to know i'll post it.
    Again, thanks heaps for all your help guys, given me a lot to think about.
  28. As ya might expect by the letters at the end of my name :) I build a lotta CAD boxes

    To allow for OC'ing (4.0 Ghz +) and twin GFX cards, going full tower....drop to mid tower if dropping one of those.

    Full Tower Antec 1200 w/ CP-850 PSU $230
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.345233

    Alternate Full Tower HAF 932 w/ Corsair HX850 $330
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139011

    ASUS P6X58D-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 w/ Intel i7-930 $515
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.378938

    RAM - (avoid tall heat spreaders which may interfere w/ heat sink)
    CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600CAS 7 Model CMX6GX3M3C1600C7 $200
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145286

    Hard Drives - Note while "on the surface" SATA III don't mean beans for HD's, this is not really reflected in reality... while large transfers are limited by the mechanical limitations of the HD, the cache is essentially an SSD and can cache transfers actually do benefit from the increased interface speed. If you think you will benefit from it, the Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS 2TB may hold value for you worth the cost difference.

    If not, check out the performance charts and pick whatever 500 GB per platter drive performs best under your usage patterns. The 2 TB WD Black and XT from Seagate are good choice but at smaller capacities, you are limited to the Seagate 7200.12 or the Spinpoint F3. The 7200.12 excels in gaming, multimedia and pictures whereas the F3 wins at music and movie maker. See the comparisons here (copy past link in manually, link won't work in forum):

    (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-3.5-desktop-hard-drive-charts/compare,1006.html?prod[2371]=on&prod[2770]=on)

    Look at the tests that reflect your usage and choose accordingly.

    2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS $180
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148433

    Heat Sink - For top notch performance and ease of installation
    http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=492&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=4
    Prolimatech Megahalems ($100) ($65 for the HS, $7 for TIM, $11 each for two PWM fans and $7 for a Y cable splitter).

    http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8807/cpu-pro-01/Prolimatech_Megahalems_Rev_B_Intel_CPU_Heatsink_LGA_775_1156_1366_AM2_AM2_AM3_Hot_Item.html
    http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7038/thr-41/Innovation_Cooling_Diamond_7_Carat_Thermal_Compound_-_15_Grams.html?id=BZWnrfIC
    http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10026/fan-639/Scythe_Slip_Stream_120mm_x_25mm_PWM_Fan_-_SY1225SL12LM-P.html?tl=g36c365s936
    http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8418/cab-150/FrozenCPU_PMW_Y_Splitter_Cable.html

    If that's a budget breaker, look at the Xigmnatec S1283 or one of the others here:
    http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_Heatsinks
    http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm#INTELHEATSINK
    http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=432&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=23
    http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=492&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=4

    pick a TIM from the top few here:
    http://www.hwreviewlabs.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=64%3Amega-44-thermal-paste-round-up&catid=32%3Around-ups&Itemid=47&limitstart=3
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/thermal-interface-roundup_10.html#sect1
    http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=138&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=3

    GFX Card - 2 x ASUS ENGTX470/2DI/1280MD5 GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) $700
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121372

    or

    ASUS EAH5850 DIRECTCU/2DIS/1GD5 Radeon HD 5850
    http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121375

    In DX11 games at 1920 x 1200 and high settings, the 470 took 8 outta 9 benchies over the 5850..... gotta be noted though the the "dollars per frame" costs are about even. ATI has the power use and heat advantage too. However, nVidia has optimizations for CAD and Adobe Suites not available on ATI and nVidia also has CUDA which will return benefits in your rendering work.

    Optical - Wanna watch movies ?
    Plextor Blue Ray Combo Model PX-B320SA LightScribe Support and 50 LS disks $125
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827249055

    Alternate Optical
    Any $25 burner

    Card Reader
    AFT XM-35U BLACK USB 2.0 Kiosk Card Reader (3.5") $41
    http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820176016


    Totals $1991

    Instead of the 2nd GFX card , may want to consider:

    a) SSD $350 http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233107
    b) an extra 6 GB of RAM $200 as above
  29. K, honestly if the 470 could be had for 350 US dollars and be in my house I would hand over the money now. Prices in australia are making me lean towards the 5850, (I do want the fermi) but for paying that much more here? Anyone know any 3rd party shipping dealers in the US that will ship here a 470? How much you recon it would cost?
  30. WOW !

    You JUST GOTTA love Jack! Not only did he bust some serious ass getting into your build, but he is smack-dead-on about EVrything!

    You can always throw 3 more sticks of RAM in there, later, but get a brand that is widely available and permanently "present" in OZland.


    I would STRONGLY suggest the nVidia option ... if pro graphics toolsets are a primary aim. You *should* already know that CS4 and friends are looking for nVidia architecture.

    Jack said it all ... I would go with Jack's FIRST choice, on everything, if you can find it ...

    ... If you CAN'T find "it" ... go with Jack's 2nd choice.

    ... The Admiral wasn't wrong, either (never is). Even HE admitted that the ONLY reason he included a Radeon is because YOU insisted.

    ... You have your heart set on Radeon. ... Your Pro tools have their hearts (unanimously) set on nVidia. ... No point in going with nVidia if you are pining or unhappy over the Radeon you didn't get, tho.

    = Al =
  31. I'm just considering the price vs performance (Being australian prices) with the listed prices I gave, what are your opinions? Have they changed at all? The "price per frame" is quite different now between the 5850 and the 470.
    What is wrong with ATi stream technology compared to CUDA?
    You said Nvidia had optimisations for CAD, apart from CUDA?
    I think i read somewhere CS5 may support ATi cards more. Also that CS4's GPU accelleration stuff only helps with zooming in things like photoshop? Not sure about that though...
    The money saved from not buying the 470 could be used on other things to speed up the PC more so though, wouldn't you agree? Even perhaps going straight with 2 x 5850's?
  32. I didn't write the code !!

    Look at any CS4 turnkey build ... actually search google (or B&H) on "CS4 turnkey".

    I ain't gonna argue about it ... just see for yourself, what cards are used in professional, pre-build, CS4 workstations and desktop builds.

    = Enjoy ! =
  33. I do remember reading something like nvidia advertise like they are the only ones that support adobe with GPU accelleration... So a build for Adobe software, people just pick out a geforce card.. When in reality, ATi is just as good.
    Don't know if it's entirely true, would have to see benchmarks on it... Even a specific ati 5000 vs the nvidia fermi would be excellent.
    Eh.. It's an annoying situation i'm in.. But I think i'm going to go with the 5850... The price difference here is a big consideration. If the 470 was around $500 US dollars, what would your choice be compared to the $350 5850.?
    I assume it would be the 5850..
    Please emphasise with me when i pick out the 5850! haha
  34. sturticles said:
    I
    Don't know if it's entirely true, would have to see benchmarks on it... Even a specific ati 5000 vs the nvidia fermi would be excellent.
    Eh.. emphasise with me when i pick out the 5850! haha


    Me too !
  35. I meant empathize lols
  36. You did not need to emphasize the "empathy thing" ... I knew zactly what u mend.
  37. Hi again. I'm wondering what you guys think about a 5970 for $680 (used from january) a HIS 5970..
    People say getting the 5970 is really for people that can blow money and just want the best performance, (which isn't me). But when i look at price vs performance.. Considering the prices i listed before for cards in Australia, Do you think that buying this card would still be considered a poor decision for me, (wanting a good price vs performance ratio)... ati 5850 being around $350 at cheapest.. What do you guys think? Should I jump on this?
  38. Gaming a 1080p will be fine even with one 5850 for ages i think... 5970 IS pretty OVERkill for a single monitor.. I don't suspect my render times to be that much faster in terms of what i'd be paying for it, right? It's more CPU based i'm pretty sure. Might as well spend that extra money on a SSD or other... I can always Xfire it up in the future when it's cheaper too if need be...
    Eh, i bitch too much. I need to be more decisive.
  39. You are pretty much correct about everything ... The 5850 is plenty and can do dual 1080P or 1200P just fine (For your Pro Apps, that is) ... Multi-mon *gaming* at hi-rez would likely require a 2nd 5850 in xFire.

    But for editing and Pro-Graphics, using Eyefinity, and two monitors, you can get 2 active hi-rez monitors out of one card ... for work and Video/HTPC type apps.

    Of course, as you already know ... My recommendation is QuadroFX or nVidia 470 ... or even a 9800GT-EE.

    = Alvin =
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