Ok, let me start off by saying that I certainly do not take offense and my answers here are not intended to be sarcastic, offensive, stuck up, etc. They are simply intended to be explanations of why things were done the way they were. Remember I said not to laugh. If I built this system from scratch for somebody and claimed it to be an ideal system, I should be kicked in the face. It was "built" over time using the cheapest means to an end using stuff I already had. I know it could be better but I also know I won't be using this system very long anyway. For now it works "well enough" to do what I need.
First of all, Please do not take offense at the criticism, I'm only doing it to help you, it is the reason I asked you to show a picture of your setup.
I do not take offense at criticism. I know the system is less than optimal but it was cheap to build because aside from the reservoir and the inline pump, I had everything laying around already.
#1 All the brass fittings you've used have much smaller IDs than the tubing mostly run in your setup and smaller ID is increased flow restriction anyway you look at it.
I had to adapt to the 1/4 tubing of the waterblock somehow. I used brass instead of plastic because I already had it and because the corsair uses the "hard plastic" instead of rubber lines I knew I would have to really tighten the clamps to make it not leak. A plastic fitting may have broken under the stress.
The cost invested in those brass fittings could probably have offset the price of completely replacing the tubing 2 times over and eliminated those fittings altogether.
Replace the tubing yes, but not the waterblock. Since I can't connect half inch tubing directly to the waterblock, I had to adapt it somehow or replace it. Remember this started out using just the waterblock / pump, not an external pump. Had I replaced the waterblock I would have immediately had to buy a new pump as well. That would have cost significantly more than using what I already had.
You also have reducers connecting the old Corsair parts that restrict flow even further.
For the same reason as the waterblock. I cannot connect directly to the radiator with half inch tubing. These are the same hard plastic lines that the waterblock uses so I had to use something sturdy to be sure I could get it tight enough to not leak. Sure I could have replaced the radiator, but that's even more money.
#2 I have also used an external reservoir in the past running 8 gallons of water adding 2 ice blocks for chilling the water, but never used decreased ID tubing to connect it, with the brass valves being even smaller ID and being flow restrictive as well.
The flow rate through the 1/4" tubing is sufficient for my needs. It was simply a proof of concept, again using parts that I already had.
#3 I suggest getting a XSPC Raystorm water block and loosing that wimpy Corsair pump, the Phobya pump is more than capable of handling the entire loop, the Corsair pump is actually holding you back and forcing the Phobya to work overtime, adding unnecessary stress.
#4 If you would rethink your setup you could seriously improve the performance but you definitely need a better radiator than that Corsair radiator, what does it have 1/4" tubing?
Certainly not bad advice, but again at what cost? I've already said I intend to build a new machine from the ground up, why throw more money at this one?
#5 Is the Brass Tee above a fill or drain port?
If it is you could have used either of the brass valves to the external reservoir as a filling or drain ports and eliminated that restriction.
It is a fill port. It was installed before I decided to try the external reservoir. At this point I do use the external for 99% of my filling / draining, however, the fill port does assist in removing air bubbles. Is that T a restriction? Possibly, but considering I have 1/4" tubing on the waterblock and radiator, not really so I leave it in there.
Note: I've never used a tubing fill port or drain port at all, (Reason Being!, If I am going to drain my system, I am going to replace the tubing anyway, so I cut the tubing at the lowest point and drain the entire system), doesn't your bay reservoir have a fill port
Yes my bay reservoir has a fill port but due to the restrictions of my old case there is no way to make it the highest point in the system, therefore it is somewhat useless.
Additional Note: If you did nothing else I suggest, at least get rid of all those brass connection fittings.
And replace them with what exactly? I cannot connect 1/2" tubing to 1/4" tubing using duct tape. Plastic reducers don't have an ID significantly higher than the brass.
#6 What is the coil in the line from the Corsair ~ Phobya pump, were you afraid you didn't have enough flow restriction already?
Well let's see, as I mentioned, the pressure differential between the two pumps was enough that the phobya pump collapses that piece of tubing so I had to prevent that somehow. You tell me, which is less restrictive, a collapsed tube, or one with a coil in it?
IMO Bubbles is the least you should be concerned with, your entire tubing nightmare needs to be completely reworked, and once again, I do not mean to offend you!
Let me assure you that you have not offended me. However, I will point out that I said ahead of time that my setup was not optimal. I know that, you can see that. The fact is I don't care. This whole system was an experiment if you will to see what works and what doesn't using parts that I already had. It was never intended to be the best water cooling system in the world. It was intended to function adequately for a minimum of cost, which it does quite well actually.
Additionally anytime you use a reducer from larger ID to smaller ID you increase flow pressure out the smaller nozzle, same fluid dynamics used for strip mining.
However when you go in the opposite direction small to larger diameter you decrease the flow pressure and provide a place for bubbles to develop at the transition point of expansion, that may very well be where some of your bubbles are coming from.
And finally after all of that we get to the actual question. I did pass fluid mechanics and thermodynamics. I am well aware of how flow restrictions, volume flow rates, pressure, etc works within a fluid system. Hence the reason that I thought that the "bubbles" might actually be steam instead of air. We know that the boiling point depends on the pressure. The exit side of the first pump is at extremely low pressure due to the suction caused by the second pump (remember it's enough to collapse the tubing). Add to that the transition from small to large tubing and I seem to have created my very own expansion valve..... maybe I should just put R134a in the system instead of distilled water....
Lutfij,
It very likely is an H50 corsair instead of an H60. Now that you mention it, that sounds right. I've had that for several years and the box is long gone (I never throw away the box so I have my wife to thank for that) and I've slept since I last saw the box so I simply couldn't remember exactly.
When I looked at the radiator with the hard lines, I wasn't sure exactly how they were connected to the radiator and I wasn't sure I could get the hard lines off without damaging it. As such I decided to adapt rather than risk damaging it. Again what I have works, not optimally, but it does work so I'm not going to spend any more time / money with it.
One final time let me say, no offense taken, nor none intended towards anybody. I had a specific question (or theory really), and I got (eventually
) a specific answer or confirmation of the theory. Thanks for that guys.
Now if you want talk about building it right, let's talk about my new system. I don't have the budget to build it all at once so I can't give full details, but I can tell you what I know. Since radiators, pumps, and reservoirs can be used regardless of the CPU waterblocks and such, I'll buy all of that first. Perhaps by the time I get all of that the prices will have come down on the socket 2011 stuff. If not I may go 1155. I certainly won't be going with an AMD until they figure out how to not suck.... Let me say that I used to love AMD. They used to offer performance on par with or superior to intel for less cost. If the performance was not better, the price difference was so much that it was still worthwhile. However, for several years they have not been able to keep up. They may still have low prices but in the majority of the "real world" scenarios they come up seriously short. Add to that the power consumption and thus heat generated, the benefits don't outweigh the costs, at least in my opinion. Personally I think AMD's acquisition of ATI was the beginning of the end, but that's neither here nor there really. On to my plans.
I've already got the ATCS 840, which is pretty big so I have lots of room to work with. Since I would have plenty of room I figured I would do two complete water cooling systems, one for CPU and chipset, a second for video card(s). There is room in the case for a 120x360 radiator in the top and a 120x120 in the back. Plenty of room to do push/pull on both. There is also plenty of room for reservoirs and pumps.
I thought I would use 1/2" tubing all the way with proper angled / 90 fittings for a clean look and to help prevent loops / kinking. I thought I would come out of each reservoir with 90's directly down into each pump. Should be a nice clean straight shot.
From the pumps, for the video cards I would go directly into the bottom of the GPU waterblock. If I have two I will come out of it into the second, then on to the radiator, otherwise I'll come out of the top of one then go to the radiator. I should be able to take a more or less straight shot into the 120x360 radiator at the top of the case. Coming out of the radiator I should have a fairly straight shot back to one of the reservoirs. Some fittings of different angles may help me make this a truly straight shot. I don't know exactly what I'll need until I get my reservoirs and radiators and mock it up.
For the CPU loop I will come out of the pump and likely head for the chipset first. My logic here is that the chipset probably won't be as hot as the CPU and the hose routing would be easier. I feel like if I went to the CPU first, the water could actually serve as a chipset warmer rather than a cooler, and I would have to backtrack, using more tubing and causing more clutter. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I've never used a chipset cooler. Is it really even needed?
Using the proper fittings to make it as straight a shot as possible I would go from chipset to cpu. Then from the CPU I would go to the rear 120x120 radiator using the right fittings to make it as straight a shot as possible. Out of the radiator it would be a nearly perfectly straight shot back to the reservoir.
As for waterblocks I actually like the koolance 380 CPU block. I have read some reviews where it performs very well. I have a koolance on my 8800 now and I really like it so I may stick with them. Unless something much better comes along in the mean time. I intend to lap the CPU. For thermal paste I'm not sure yet. I have traditionally used arctic silver 5 although there are supposed to be things out there that perform better these days. Suggestions on a new favorite? I haven't decided exactly on a video card(s) yet. I would love a 690 or two but the price is just a tad steep, but they are bound to come down. Since I don't know what video card I will have I can't make a decision on a waterblock for this yet.
For fans on the radiator I like the coolermaster 120's from 4Ryan6's review. It has the best CFM / db ratio out there. I will have 6 on the big radiator and 2 on the small one. I will use PWM splitters / controllers to allow me to control their speed (either with a manual fan controller or through the mobo) yet keep them in sync. Having fans running at different speeds in push / pull doesn't sound like a great idea
For radiators I am looking at the coolgate "all copper" units. I like their look / price, however, I haven't been able to find too much about their performance. I'm open to suggestions here. Fortunately my friend just ordered a 120x360 for use in his ATCS 840. He also ordered the exact same fans so I'll get to see how effective this combo is before I order.
Since I don't know yet if it'll be 2011 or 1155, I don't have an exact model in mind, but it will most likely be an Asus motherboard of some type. There may be other great boards out there but I've never met an Asus I didn't like so I like to stick with them, even if they cost a little more.
Thoughts, opinions? Since I have the room and I will be building it over time, cost isn't a huge concern. I was thinking with the dual cooling loops I would have an ideal setup for overclocking both the CPU and GPU's because the heat from one system would not directly impact the other. I should (in theory) be able to work them completely independently. Again since radiators, pumps, fans, etc, are all platform independent, I can get all of that first. This will allow time for prices to come down on what is currently top of the line as the new latest and greatest comes out. If all goes according to plan / budget, I'm looking about a 6 month build from start to finish.
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