Converting the original T:DS missions to PC-sized missions

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Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

Now that the Thief: Deadly Shadows editing tools are available, is
anyone working on a special PC version of the original missions set? I
have no idea whether such a thing is even possible, but it would be
great to be able to play the original missions without those silly
loading zones.

Objekt

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

"Objekt" <t37student@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:vjn5e.3551$ox3.2698@trnddc03...
> Now that the Thief: Deadly Shadows editing tools are available, is anyone
> working on a special PC version of the original missions set? I have no
> idea whether such a thing is even possible, but it would be great to be
> able to play the original missions without those silly loading zones.

That has been discussed, but deemed very difficult, and probably not worth
the effort.

Simply joining the 'levels' (the geometry) can be done, although there are
alignment issues etc. The different sections don't necessarily neatly
align, but some added geometry would have to be built, and things like that.
But that isn't a big problem. Handling the AIs, the mapload scripts etc.,
is.

For example, and as it was explained on the TTLG Thief III Editing Guild,
each City section contains every AI you will meet there over the course of
the game, and they appear when it is their time. This means that if you
simply join the geometries, you end up having several instances of those AIs
in the City. You'd have to remove all but one of them and build some kind
of an elaborate teleportation/scripting system to make sure that they appear
when and where they are supposed to etc. Like Krypt of TTLG (one of the
developers of TDS) explained it:

Krypt: "Essentially any time you do something in one map and then go back to
another map to find that something has changed, it was done through
scripting triggered on the mapload. For example, you get a quest to kill
some guy in one map then go to another map and get ambushed by his buddies
trying to get revenge. His buddies are always in the other map, set to
hidden, until you zone back in after this quest and trigger a script with
conditions "When map loads" AND "flag PlayerKilledGuy=true". Missions have
less of this in general, but city sections rely on it. Every city section
map is a single file for all 9 gamedays, which means they always contain
every single character/object that you ever see in them, including all the
endgame stuff. All of these things are hidden until scripting triggered from
the mapload reveals them."

So, in essence you'd not only have to combine and rebuild the geometry, but
you'd have to work out all the scripting and gameplay dynamics all over,
which might turn out to be a monumental task. Also, people tend to feel
that combining the levels wouldn't be worth it anyway; much better to focus
all that creative energy on brand new, and _better_, T3 Fan Missions.

I agree with that.

- Mika L

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

Mika Latokartano wrote:
> That has been discussed, but deemed very difficult, and probably not
> worth the effort.
>
> Simply joining the 'levels' (the geometry) can be done, although there
> are alignment issues etc. The different sections don't necessarily
> neatly align, but some added geometry would have to be built, and things
> like that. But that isn't a big problem. Handling the AIs, the mapload
> scripts etc., is.
>
> For example, and as it was explained on the TTLG Thief III Editing
> Guild, each City section contains every AI you will meet there over the
> course of the game, and they appear when it is their time. This means
> that if you simply join the geometries, you end up having several
> instances of those AIs in the City. You'd have to remove all but one of
> them and build some kind of an elaborate teleportation/scripting system
> to make sure that they appear when and where they are supposed to etc.
> Like Krypt of TTLG (one of the developers of TDS) explained it:

<snip excellent explanation>

That makes sense. I was unclear in my original post: I was only
proposing a remake of the individual missions, so that you don't have
that goofy loading zone e.g. in the middle of a building.

I can see why having the whole City up and running at one stretch would
be unworkable. Aside from the scripting problems you mentioned, I think
even my machine, with 1 GB RAM and a relatively fast processor (AMD
Athlon XP 3400), would choke on simulating the entire City at once.

Given the state of things, I'll live with the loading zones in the
original missions and look forward to fan-made missions that aren't
built to accommodate the Xbox's limitations. As you say below-


much
> better to focus all that creative energy on brand new, and _better_, T3
> Fan Missions.
>
> I agree with that.
>
> - Mika L

Objekt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm pretty sure my computer wouldn't be
able to handle the entire city as one big map. It's bad enough even with all
the loading zones.


"Mika Latokartano" <mika.latokartano@REMOVETHIS.kolumbus.fi.invalid> wrote
in message news:d356fc$b19$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>
> "Objekt" <t37student@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
> viestissä:vjn5e.3551$ox3.2698@trnddc03...
> > Now that the Thief: Deadly Shadows editing tools are available, is
anyone
> > working on a special PC version of the original missions set? I have
no
> > idea whether such a thing is even possible, but it would be great to be
> > able to play the original missions without those silly loading zones.
>
> That has been discussed, but deemed very difficult, and probably not worth
> the effort.
>
> Simply joining the 'levels' (the geometry) can be done, although there
are
> alignment issues etc. The different sections don't necessarily neatly
> align, but some added geometry would have to be built, and things like
that.
> But that isn't a big problem. Handling the AIs, the mapload scripts etc.,
> is.
>
> For example, and as it was explained on the TTLG Thief III Editing Guild,
> each City section contains every AI you will meet there over the course of
> the game, and they appear when it is their time. This means that if you
> simply join the geometries, you end up having several instances of those
AIs
> in the City. You'd have to remove all but one of them and build some kind
> of an elaborate teleportation/scripting system to make sure that they
appear
> when and where they are supposed to etc. Like Krypt of TTLG (one of the
> developers of TDS) explained it:
>
> Krypt: "Essentially any time you do something in one map and then go back
to
> another map to find that something has changed, it was done through
> scripting triggered on the mapload. For example, you get a quest to kill
> some guy in one map then go to another map and get ambushed by his buddies
> trying to get revenge. His buddies are always in the other map, set to
> hidden, until you zone back in after this quest and trigger a script with
> conditions "When map loads" AND "flag PlayerKilledGuy=true". Missions have
> less of this in general, but city sections rely on it. Every city section
> map is a single file for all 9 gamedays, which means they always contain
> every single character/object that you ever see in them, including all the
> endgame stuff. All of these things are hidden until scripting triggered
from
> the mapload reveals them."
>
> So, in essence you'd not only have to combine and rebuild the geometry,
but
> you'd have to work out all the scripting and gameplay dynamics all over,
> which might turn out to be a monumental task. Also, people tend to feel
> that combining the levels wouldn't be worth it anyway; much better to
focus
> all that creative energy on brand new, and _better_, T3 Fan Missions.
>
> I agree with that.
>
> - Mika L
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.thief-dark-project (More info?)

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:36:38 GMT, Objekt <t37student@yahoo.com> wrote:

>That makes sense. I was unclear in my original post: I was only
>proposing a remake of the individual missions, so that you don't have
>that goofy loading zone e.g. in the middle of a building.

As Mika explained, you have the same problem with joining mission
zones as you have joing city sections. It's just on a slightly smaller
scale.
--
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