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Fermi released today! Let me know your opinions and predictions

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March 26, 2010 3:50:07 PM

Ok!! So this is how the month of Fermi looks: all we've seen are numerous (and somewhat tedious) box pictures, a few of the actual cards seen, and NO benchmarks! I've been anticipating this release all this month, not because I'd buy one, but just to see how they will perform. Which brings me to this disscussion; how do you think Fermi will perform? Will it lower prices? And how will this very very VERY late start for nvidia affect its possition in the graphics card market? I'm interested to know your thoughts, start typing!!!

-Rambo
March 26, 2010 5:10:54 PM

From what I've read/seen it seems Fermi has potential to beat the current Radeons by a decent margin in future games, but in anything currently out there it will be a disappointment. Now taking into consideration that ATI is planning to release a next gen card later this year, Fermi is looking kinda dull. This however is just speculation and I can't wait to see the benchmarks!

Speaking of benchmarks... where in the hell are they? Usually when a card is released we see benchmarks...
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
March 26, 2010 5:46:33 PM

We started with some useful debate when these cards were first touted but after that it was basically ATI fanboys and those of the press that enjoyed trying to put Nvidia down at every turn that basically did Nvidias marketing job for it.
All the slagging off and moaning about stuff that really doesnt matter, heat power etc,at the drop of a hat and at every given opportunity did Nvidias publicity for it. They didn't need to keep releasing statements as the public profile of this card was kept high for them by the very people who wanted to hurt them.

All Nvidia need to do now, well i say "all" is to release a card that is at least competitive, say within touching distance of the ATI cards and they can claim a not bad job done. Late card vs ATI wonder card with mature drivers and its ball park as good. Sounds like a win to me. Imagine how good it would have been compared to the ATI cards if it had worked first time and wasn't delayed.

Im not biased either way and just want healthy competition, i have always favoured ATI but to stick with them through the lean times performance wise only to see them say thanks for keeping us afloat guys now we have it sussed you can pay through the nose has me a bit pissed to be honest.

So rather than pan Nvidia for sticking with a new arch, much like ATI did. (How long did it take ATI to get the new arch working properly, 3 gens i make it.) Im prepared to forgive them if the result is there in the end. You never know i may even buy one.

Mactronix
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March 26, 2010 8:50:59 PM

Did you just say that heat and power "doesnt matter"

I don't know about you, but I don't like paying electricty bills, and hot cards=hot case=hot CPU=lower OC.
March 26, 2010 9:44:54 PM

mactronix said:


Im not biased either way and just want healthy competition, i have always favoured ATI but to stick with them through the lean times performance wise only to see them say thanks for keeping us afloat guys now we have it sussed you can pay through the nose has me a bit pissed to be honest.


Mactronix


Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm in total agreement with that statement Mactronix. The only time I bought from nvidia was when the geforce 8xxx series was all the rave. But since then, I was perfectly content with my 3870's in crossfire kicking it up.

But besides that, all I want is equilibrium in the graphics card market. Without it, we have a monopoly going on. At this point, both camps are equally as screwy until we get some good, clean competition.
a b U Graphics card
March 26, 2010 9:56:42 PM

Mac is basically turned to the dark side for no good reason. Power and heat don't matter, and all nVidia has to do is match ATI 6-months later with a 50% bigger chip?

Yeah good one Mac, you had me wondering if you were serious or not for a minute there. :D 
March 26, 2010 10:06:23 PM

i actually had a few second long slot in my dream last night where i saw the link to the fermi benchmarks on tom's!!!
March 26, 2010 10:06:51 PM

And I dont even like nVidia.

It just pays homage to how heavily this card has been hyped.
a b U Graphics card
March 26, 2010 10:09:11 PM

bogcotton said:
And I dont even like nVidia.

It just pays homage to how heavily this card has been hyped.


Lol.

I know what you mean though. :D 
a b Î Nvidia
a c 106 U Graphics card
March 26, 2010 10:20:47 PM

I predict the first sites to have a review up will be swarmed...... oh wait.
March 26, 2010 11:38:27 PM

tom's rewiew is now up.

TL;DR version:

GTX 480 is about as fast as the 5870 without AA, While using the heat and power of the 5970. With AA, the GTX 480 is a bit faster, but still overpriced.

The GTX 470 is 350$, and a bit faster/the same as the 5850. Given the 350$ price (and the power usage), and the 300$ price of the 5850, In order to compete, it needs to be 300$.

Bottom line: In order to Win a recomdation from Bob,

The GTX 480 should be 400$.

The GTX 470 should be 300$.
March 26, 2010 11:48:52 PM

Too much hype around these cards has left everyone a little disappointed. We all thought they are going to be MUCH faster than ATI's offerings. They are too expensive as well. Nvidia failed...even though im an ATI fan, i was looking forward to fermi and what it had to offer. They waited too long to release these cards...

''Four months after its launch, the ATI Radeon HD 5970 remains the undisputed performance leader. Six months after its launch, the ATI Radeon HD 5870 remains the clear winner at and below its price point. Add to that a top to bottom line-up of DirectX 11 graphics cards as well as cutting-edge features such as the immersive experience of ATI Eyefinity technology, and we are confident ATI Radeon graphics cards will continue to be the favorite choice of customers wanting the most advanced and efficient graphics products.

-Dave Erskine, AMD spokesperson ''
March 26, 2010 11:50:07 PM

Opinion: GTX 480 useless power hungry trash, overpriced by 100$+

opinion; GTX 470 overpriced by 50$+.
March 26, 2010 11:59:49 PM

Looks like the 470 GTX will really be Nvidia's only hope here, it competes with the 5850 which at this time is woefully overpriced due to huge supply issues mostly a result of zero competition. Hopefully with the 470 GTX beating the 5850 this will be enough for ATI to kick start faster production.
March 27, 2010 12:03:06 AM

Here's the real question: If the GTX 470 was 300$, would you buy it or a 5850?

I consider myself an Nvidia loyalist, and yet, I think I would buy the 5850.
March 27, 2010 1:56:44 AM

builderbobftw said:
Here's the real question: If the GTX 470 was 300$, would you buy it or a 5850?

I consider myself an Nvidia loyalist, and yet, I think I would buy the 5850.


In that position, it would be most dependant on whether or not your board is equipped with SLI or Crossfire. In my situation, I would choose the ladder as well ;) 
a c 168 Î Nvidia
a c 271 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 2:49:55 AM

builderbobftw said:
I consider myself an Nvidia loyalist, and yet

And yet have an ATi card in your rig.
a b U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 3:02:14 AM

Mousemonkey said:
And yet have an ATi card in your rig.


That just means he's an Nvidia loyalist with a bit more sense. :lol: 
March 27, 2010 12:43:44 PM

jennyh said:
That just means he's an Nvidia loyalist with a bit more sense. :lol: 


Yeah, Exactly.

I mean, I felt bad about about buying an ATI card, but there realy wasn't any way I could buy a Nvidia card and have it be a good value (GTX 260s are selling nealry twice as much as 4870s on Ebay). (the 4870X2 is cheaper than the GTX 285)

There was no way i could have bought an Nvidia card and felt like it was a good deal.

The reason I like Nvidia products is because they used to beat the completion, and lay great products down for us.

Now that they don't do what attracted me to them in the first place, why should i continue to buy their products?
a b U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 3:56:59 PM

The Fermi is bad product. Too much wasted energy to power 3b transistors for limited gain. A lot of features that has no real world application or impact to most PC users even PC gamers.

I guess my BFG 280 OC(On my 2nd Quad Core Setup) will be staying foot for another 6 months until a respectable product comes out from NVIDIA.

March 27, 2010 3:59:49 PM

leon2006 said:
The Fermi is bad product. Too much wasted energy to power 3b transistors for limited gain. A lot of features that has no real world application or impact to most PC users even PC gamers.

I guess my BFG 280 OC(On my 2nd Quad Core Setup) will be staying foot for another 6 months until a respectable product comes out from NVIDIA.


Ya, I was probably most dissapointed at its "supierior" use of AA. WOW, what a fail, from what I saw the 5870 did just fine handling it and keeping steady framerates at higher resolutions. What a piece of trash
March 27, 2010 6:51:12 PM

Nvidia lost this round..Lets hope that they come up with something better next time
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 7:29:43 PM

Such short memories and rose tinted glasses, So its ATI's turn to be market leaders and Nvidia are playing catch up. Anyone remember the 2900XT ? fermi is rated at 55W less at peak than that monster was, that's taken from techpowerup's archive by the way.
Main thing is its here at last and really can only get better, its probably going to take a couple of gens if they stick to this arch to get it competitive, same as ATI took from the 2xxx cards.

Mactronix
March 27, 2010 8:06:26 PM

mactronix said:
We started with some useful debate when these cards were first touted but after that it was basically ATI fanboys and those of the press that enjoyed trying to put Nvidia down at every turn that basically did Nvidias marketing job for it.
All the slagging off and moaning about stuff that really doesnt matter, heat power etc,at the drop of a hat and at every given opportunity did Nvidias publicity for it. They didn't need to keep releasing statements as the public profile of this card was kept high for them by the very people who wanted to hurt them.

All Nvidia need to do now, well i say "all" is to release a card that is at least competitive, say within touching distance of the ATI cards and they can claim a not bad job done. Late card vs ATI wonder card with mature drivers and its ball park as good. Sounds like a win to me. Imagine how good it would have been compared to the ATI cards if it had worked first time and wasn't delayed.

Im not biased either way and just want healthy competition, i have always favoured ATI but to stick with them through the lean times performance wise only to see them say thanks for keeping us afloat guys now we have it sussed you can pay through the nose has me a bit pissed to be honest.

So rather than pan Nvidia for sticking with a new arch, much like ATI did. (How long did it take ATI to get the new arch working properly, 3 gens i make it.) Im prepared to forgive them if the result is there in the end. You never know i may even buy one.

Mactronix



Hey heat and power might not mean anything to you but to say it doesnt matter period is just retarded! The number 1 thing i was looking for when i was upgrading from my 4870 was a card that ran cool and used as little power as possible while still giving me a big jump in performance!

My 5870 does this and keeps my case cooler than what it was which matters to ALOT of people.
March 27, 2010 8:09:19 PM

mactronix said:
Such short memories and rose tinted glasses, So its ATI's turn to be market leaders and Nvidia are playing catch up. Anyone remember the 2900XT ? fermi is rated at 55W less at peak than that monster was, that's taken from techpowerup's archive by the way.
Main thing is its here at last and really can only get better, its probably going to take a couple of gens if they stick to this arch to get it competitive, same as ATI took from the 2xxx cards.

Mactronix


dude, Just shut up.

You're making a fool of you'reself.

First you said heat and power don't matter, and now here you are suggesting that people thought the HD 2900XT was a good card.

Who said that?

No one.
March 27, 2010 8:18:55 PM

mactronix said:
Such short memories and rose tinted glasses, So its ATI's turn to be market leaders and Nvidia are playing catch up. Anyone remember the 2900XT ? fermi is rated at 55W less at peak than that monster was, that's taken from techpowerup's archive by the way.
Main thing is its here at last and really can only get better, its probably going to take a couple of gens if they stick to this arch to get it competitive, same as ATI took from the 2xxx cards.

Mactronix



Yeah i remember back when the 5k series was ***! and were getting pwned. then the 6k series was released only to get surpassed again! I can tell you that bringing up the past doesnt make Nvidia look any better! ATI has alway's been right there and when they where behind they wernt behind by much i can say they have been ahead just as much if not more than Nvidia has in the last 10 years.

The ONLY reason Nvidia took such a large lead back in the g80 day's was becuase ATI got aquired by AMD and then the market crashed and everything went to *** for ATI becuase of AMD. Now things are back to where they once were and this is how its going to be Nvidia just got lazy and now ATI is going to bury them if they dont pull there head out there ass.
March 27, 2010 8:22:22 PM

Both Nvidia and ATI havce had thier ups and downs.

Nvidia used to be on top, so reasonable people bought Nvidia cards.

ATI is now on top, so reasable people buy ATI.

Who the hell cares about history?

March 27, 2010 8:33:38 PM

builderbobftw said:
Both Nvidia and ATI havce had thier ups and downs.

Nvidia used to be on top, so reasonable people bought Nvidia cards.

ATI is now on top, so reasable people buy ATI.

Who the hell cares about history?



Well alot of people can only remember back as far as g80 so they think Nvidia is god's gift to Video cards...Lol ive bought wayy more Nvidia cards than ATI. I even bought a fx5200 and tried playing Oblivion with it lol. The 7 series was imo a very good generation and the 7600gt was a badass card for it's time! Just like the 8800gt was when i bought that!

I dont like to support lazy companies! If the Fermi was the same as it was now with just better power consumption i would be sold! But considering the gtx480 uses way more power than the 5970 and is barely faster than a 5870 is just not exceptable imo.
a c 168 Î Nvidia
a c 271 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 9:11:07 PM

builderbobftw said:
dude, Just shut up.

You're making a fool of you'reself.

First you said heat and power don't matter, and now here you are suggesting that people thought the HD 2900XT was a good card.

Who said that?

No one.

Lots did but if you weren't around on this forum at the time then that may explain why you don't remember it.
builderbobftw said:
Both Nvidia and ATI havce had thier ups and downs.

Nvidia used to be on top, so reasonable people bought Nvidia cards.

ATI is now on top, so reasable people buy ATI.

Who the hell cares about history?


Those who can remember things do.
March 27, 2010 9:13:49 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Lots did but if you weren't around on this forum at the time then that may explain why you don't remember it.


Those who can remember things do.



So just buecuase NV has been better in the past means i should buy NV now?

What bearing does the 8800GT have on the GTX 480?

What bearing does the HD2900XT have on the 5970?
a c 168 Î Nvidia
a c 271 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 9:22:25 PM

builderbobftw said:
So just buecuase NV has been better in the past means i should buy NV now?

You're the one who claimed to be an Nvidia loyalist.
builderbobftw said:
What bearing does the 8800GT have on the GTX 480?

What bearing does the HD2900XT have on the 5970?

That'll be where the history comes in but no ones supposed to care about the history, remember?
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 9:22:48 PM

xx12amanxx said:
Yeah i remember back when the 5k series was ***! and were getting pwned. then the 6k series was released only to get surpassed again! I can tell you that bringing up the past doesnt make Nvidia look any better! ATI has alway's been right there and when they where behind they wernt behind by much i can say they have been ahead just as much if not more than Nvidia has in the last 10 years.

The ONLY reason Nvidia took such a large lead back in the g80 day's was becuase ATI got aquired by AMD and then the market crashed and everything went to *** for ATI becuase of AMD. Now things are back to where they once were and this is how its going to be Nvidia just got lazy and now ATI is going to bury them if they dont pull there head out there ass.



So you call me retarded and then start prattling on about cards that are not even here yet.
Then you go on about what happened when the 8800's were top dog and get it totally wrong. :pfff: 
I could correct you on what the actual facts were and how it had more to do with Microsoft than AMD but i wont bother.

Mactronix
March 27, 2010 9:53:50 PM

Mousemonkey said:
You're the one who claimed to be an Nvidia loyalist.



I am, Which is why i'm angry about Fermi sucking.

If I was an ATI fanboy, I would be celebrating and uncorking the bubbly right about now.

a b U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 10:15:41 PM

I went to the launch event in England (at Scan) and some of the demo's were quite fun. I have an Asus 480 on pre-order and i'm quite stoked for it all :) .

Btw i think ATI cards kick ass too, we all shouldn't be so worked up about it, whether its ATI or NV, so long as the frames are getting busted out onto your screen its all good right?
March 27, 2010 10:23:25 PM

mactronix said:
So you call me retarded and then start prattling on about cards that are not even here yet.
Then you go on about what happened when the 8800's were top dog and get it totally wrong. :pfff: 
I could correct you on what the actual facts were and how it had more to do with Microsoft than AMD but i wont bother.

Mactronix


I didnt call you retarded i said that its reatarded to think power consumption and heat dont mean anything i figured you would have realized that.

I was talking about 5k series as in the fx5500,5200 yada yada and 6k series as in 6600gt and such comone dude get with the program do i have to spell it out for you. ATI and Nvidia have traded blows with one not being pitucularly better than the other up until the acusation of ATI by AMD and then the market crash.

But it still doesnt change the fact that the Fermi is wayyy to power hungry and hot for the performance and price.
a c 168 Î Nvidia
a c 271 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 10:23:27 PM

builderbobftw said:
I am, Which is why i'm angry about Fermi sucking.

Now you may understand why I haven't been too bothered about these cards and have been mumbling about second gen whenever asked [:mousemonkey] , the tessellation performance numbers were interesting though and might be indicating that a dedicated hardware chip might not be the best way after all.
a b U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 10:32:17 PM

xx12amanxx said:
But it still doesnt change the fact that the Fermi is wayyy to power hungry and hot for the performance and price.


I kinda always thought that maybe Nvidia should have just quit 40nm and gone straight to 32 or 28nm, even if it means the cards got released later this year or even 2011. Because at least those 3bil transistors could have worked a little cooler :) .

In my opinion that could have been a good path for NV to take since from a financial and physical 5K series to 4xx series card ratios in consumer computers point of view, they've lost 2010 at the very least.

I reckon they'll bounce back though, but i do hope ATI don't step off the gas with the 6 series. In the end we the consumers win with really good products brought about through competition and rivalry hehe.
March 28, 2010 8:32:15 PM

This is kind of random to throw in, but mousemonkey mentioned dedicated hardware chip. Do you think that a dedicated tessellation processor would be more, efficient?

And yes, I know about the dedicated physix failure, but still, would make for an interesting product :) 
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2010 9:23:27 PM

rambo117 said:
This is kind of random to throw in, but mousemonkey mentioned dedicated hardware chip. Do you think that a dedicated tessellation processor would be more, efficient?

And yes, I know about the dedicated physix failure, but still, would make for an interesting product :) 



MM's suggestion is indeed interesting. If you look at some of the benchmarks, you'll see that in some cases where tessellation isn't as strongly needed in the rendering, there is barely a difference between the 480 and the 5870 but in places where tesselation is on the difference in performance doesn become more discernable but after saying that the 5870 without the dedicated hardware is still an admirable performer.

I'm sure dedicated hardware for tessellation is all fine and good but its how well it interfaces with the rest of the hardware is the key.
March 28, 2010 9:59:03 PM

Griffolion said:
I kinda always thought that maybe Nvidia should have just quit 40nm and gone straight to 32 or 28nm, even if it means the cards got released later this year or even 2011. Because at least those 3bil transistors could have worked a little cooler :) .

In my opinion that could have been a good path for NV to take since from a financial and physical 5K series to 4xx series card ratios in consumer computers point of view, they've lost 2010 at the very least.

I reckon they'll bounce back though, but i do hope ATI don't step off the gas with the 6 series. In the end we the consumers win with really good products brought about through competition and rivalry hehe.


I think they were already in a rush just to get anything out there so waiting any longer would have just upset the shareholder's more. I would love to have seen Fermi at the same performance but with very very slightly more power usage than the 5k series. Im scared that with this whole lets make a big ass gpu mindset going on they are just going to take advantage of smaller die's to make bigger and faster chip's that eat more power and create heat.

As far as bouncing back they should have never let off! Nvidia of all companies should have known better ATI will put them in the ground if they dont start competing soon. It has gone back to the old days where they both competed very nicely and competivly right now ATI is on a roll and has a game plan that has been proven to work! Nvidia's game plan is alittle more abscure to me with the whole big gpu idea and physx and cuda.
!