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Should I buy this? (watercooled EVga GTX 480)

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 27, 2010 6:09:44 PM

It has come to my attention that one of the biggest concerns most people are having about GTX 470/480 is that the card is rated to run at 106º C and hovers around 91ºC. So this massive amount of heat I think could be more efficiently dispensed with a water-cooling system as opposed to air cooling/heat-pipes.

I guess Evga is one step ahead of the game with this

http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=012-P3-147...


So what do you guys think? Will water cooling be much better than the stock fans/heat-pipes?


EDIT: I changed the product from the Hydro-copper GTX 480 to the 470. I have waited 2-3 years. the last card I had was a 7950 GT and that died about a year ago and I've been using my friends extra 8800 GS since then.
If I get a GTX 470 I am definitely thinking about setting up a water cooling system. If for nothing else than the 470!

Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my original post, the point of this post was not to discuss if I should actually buy this $500 GTX 470 but rather if a water-cooling solution would be far superior to air/pipes in the GTX series.

Could the noise and heat problem be addressed properly with a water-cooling solution?
a c 1362 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 6:22:56 PM

Your money not mine. If your goal is to do a lot of benchmarking and overclock a lot by all means.
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a b U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 6:31:02 PM

^ Agreed. Also, realize, a radiator (220/320) and a MCP355/655 will cost you $150+ easily.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 6:57:51 PM

You're over a thousand dollars on that card, love. Just grab an HD5970 for that price, or Sapphires 4GB HD5970 when it comes out.
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March 27, 2010 7:03:35 PM

please read my edit.
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March 27, 2010 7:03:44 PM

And where would he find a 5970?

Also, the 4gb 5970 is oly gonna be usefull at like 7680 x 3200, Without Eyefinity, you won't get close to useing 2gb of frame buffer per card.
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March 27, 2010 7:10:24 PM

I have 3 GTX275s and I am thinking about it but I don't think it is worth it. I was shocked about how little of an improvement they truely are. I think this is an example of companies making smaller steps with product improvements in order to bring in more money from those who want the best of the best all the time.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 7:32:16 PM

You're going to spend $1,000 on a card that's 2'nd-best compared to spending $650 on the best card.

At this rate, I don't care anymore.
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March 27, 2010 7:46:53 PM

Dude this thread was supposed to talk about the advantages of water-cooling a GPU.

Instead it turned into a pissing contest between NVidia and ATI fanboys. All the wackos have come out of the wood work to tout the superiority of their brand decision.

:pfff: 
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a c 376 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 7:53:30 PM

Eh, they are rightly pointing out that the options you are considering and the resulting question you are asking is really not well thought out or wise from a monetary standpoint. That isn't wacko.
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a c 1362 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 7:54:16 PM

Water cooling versus air cooling. Usually water cooling allows for higher overclocks since it is more effective than air cooling. Noise wise it is depending on the type of radiator (think fans). There is really no reason to go for water cooling except for the bling factor and/or determination to overclock to the max or record breaking with benchmarks.
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a c 125 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 7:55:45 PM

Watercooling will deffinately make it quieter and also alot cooler, but its not cheap. My loop cost me £260

But... my 5850 idles at room temp + 3C and loads at 36C overclocked to 1000core 1200mem. And its almost silent (pump and fans make some noise, maybe 22DB) And thats with a Core i7 920 in the loop @ 4Ghz

Mind you I'd suggest a seperate Loop just for your GPU as it uses ALOT of power.

( I generally do agree with the other posters and there suggestions, but if your set on a GTX4xx then watercooling will really help)
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March 27, 2010 7:55:56 PM

I have GTX275's liquid cooled and I wouldn't go any other way. I think it depends alot on your setup. The ability of a component to cool itself is a function of air tempurature and air movement. If you have a well cooled system right now then the added tempurature these cards would provide should be ok without being liquid cooled. If your system runs hot then you should look at liquid cooling. Do you have a dual loop cooling system? Do you have AC in your house? That the kind of cost to performance that you need to consider.
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March 27, 2010 8:13:40 PM

noobz1lla said:


Instead it turned into a pissing contest between NVidia and reasonable people with an iota of intelligence.

:pfff: 

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March 27, 2010 8:16:12 PM

I was not looking to overclock or get crazy benchmarks for the most part. I just wanted an efficient, silent, cooling device. I'm not in it for the bling factor, although putting it together would be fun.

My house is ok, my room gets hot in the summer. But I just bought a new case HAF 932 and transferred all my parts into the new case. My tempts went from 70º C down to 30ºC no joke.

Word to the wise, if it's been more than a year since you cleaned your parts, do it! It's therapeutic take all your parts out of your case lay them down, use dust off on them, clean out your case, psu, heatsinks, GPU. It should be like a spring cleaning thing to do at least once a year.

Also something I've noticed is that there is no information regarding warranties on GTX cards. It's like what if yours craps out. How long would that RMA process take :o 
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March 27, 2010 8:19:37 PM

noobz1lla said:
I was not looking to overclock or get crazy benchmarks for the most part. I just wanted an efficient, silent, cooling device. I'm not in it for the bling factor, although putting it together would be fun.

My house is ok, my room gets hot in the summer. But I just bought a new case HAF 932 and transferred all my parts into the new case. My tempts went from 70º C down to 30ºC no joke.

Word to the wise, if it's been more than a year since you cleaned your parts, do it! It's therapeutic take all your parts out of your case lay them down, use dust off on them, clean out your case, psu, heatsinks, GPU. It should be like a spring cleaning thing to do at least once a year.

Also something I've noticed is that there is no information regarding warranties on GTX cards. It's like what if yours craps out. How long would that RMA process take :o 


Uh, You don't need a 1000$ Liquid cooling GTX 480 setup if you don't want insane OCs.

You might be better of with just buying a 5970, and keeping it on air.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 8:32:29 PM

Honestly zilla, we're trying to help you. You're spending too much money for too little gain. In a HAF932, even an HD5970 will run cool.
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March 27, 2010 8:35:54 PM

Then it's decided I will get just the stock 470. I will count on the case and fans to keep things cool.

It just how long can you expect a card to last if it's hovering around 90ºC at load?
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March 27, 2010 9:07:44 PM

Why?

Why not just get 1 400$ 5870 or a 280$ 5850?
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March 27, 2010 9:11:22 PM

noobz1lla said:
Then it's decided I will get just the stock 470. I will count on the case and fans to keep things cool.

It just how long can you expect a card to last if it's hovering around 90ºC at load?


Many reviewers pointed out this too, that it was to hot to last long.
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a b U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 9:13:15 PM

Yeh, why don't you just return the 480 or 470 get yourself a 5870? It performs almost the same and runs much cooler. The 5970 costs a bit more, but performs much better and gives off the same amount of heat.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
March 27, 2010 9:23:47 PM

The price of a normal 470 isn't bad for the performance. That is if he can get it in a reasonable time frame. At least he's going for the reasonable Fermi choice and not going watercooling.
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March 27, 2010 9:50:14 PM

Metro has like 8 hours of gamplay.

EDIT: Wrong thread lol.
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March 29, 2010 4:17:30 AM

Best answer selected by Noobz1lla.
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March 29, 2010 4:19:16 AM

So in general water cooling on average will perform how much better than air? I'm also looking at getting a new cooler for my CPU and can't decide between the Corsair H50 and something like a CM V8.

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March 29, 2010 4:25:56 AM

noobz1lla said:
So in general water cooling on average will perform how much better than air? I'm also looking at getting a new cooler for my CPU and can't decide between the Corsair H50 and something like a CM V8.

I have the h50, and it performs very well. The best thing about it though is how little space it takes.
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a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2010 4:29:34 AM

noobz1lla said:
Dude this thread was supposed to talk about the advantages of water-cooling a GPU.

Instead it turned into a pissing contest between NVidia and ATI fanboys. All the wackos have come out of the wood work to tout the superiority of their brand decision.

:pfff: 


You only need water cooling if you buy a hot card. This is a very nice card for the money:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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April 5, 2010 5:22:35 AM

You guys are acting like the nvidia cards are terrible. the 480 is the fastest single gpu in the world. it outperforms by 10-20% in most higher end games. the 5970 is better because its a dual core card. one they make a dual core 480, it will be better than the 5970. you cant compare a single gpu card to a dual core card. and, to answer your question, yes water cooling outperforms air by alot. gtx 480 air cooled hit between 90-100 at full load. with a water cooling block properly installed, you can expect temps between 50-60 at full load. its a huge difference and its alot healthier for the card to keep it at those temps. i do agree its stupid that nvidia released a card that basically has to be water cooled to be worth buying, but if you already have a water cooled rig (like me) its not that big of a deal to add it to the loop.
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a b U Graphics card
April 5, 2010 7:41:06 AM

They can't make a dual core GTX 480. Not even a dual core GTX 470. The PCIe standard allows a maximum of 300W/slot and it is really enforced in Europe. And that's one of the reasons why they had to cut down on the frequency. That and the heat. ATI stilll has some room for its single GPU cards.
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a b U Graphics card
April 5, 2010 9:43:09 AM

LOL :) 
Show me a link, where there are European police enforcing a pci standard. Nvidia is working on a dual gpu card, Thats a fact. Whats not clear is what gpu configuration it will be. GTX 295 used no standard single gpu in their lineup.
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April 5, 2010 12:42:53 PM

yea it did. the 295 is 2 gtx 260 gpu's whereas radeons 5970 is 2 5870 gpus
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a b U Graphics card
April 5, 2010 1:30:43 PM

What European police? Why not the damn NATO? There are plenty of enforcers out there and one of them is PCI-SIG.

And no, Nvidia can't make video chips over 300 watts, period. Nobody would incorporate or sell them. GTX 295 is less than 300 watts.
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a b U Graphics card
April 5, 2010 2:24:44 PM

They did it by underclocking those two 275 GPU's, that's how they did it.
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April 16, 2010 12:27:53 AM

OMG this forum is getting flooded with ati fanboys

It is getting rather unpleasant navigate tom hardware forums, every time some one ask a question regarding nvidia fermi cards, the thread get flooded with biased ati fanboys with no life, i would hate to see this fuk transform on to a one sided biased one like semiaccurate crap´


the gtx 480 is the best fastest single gpu, in some cases and certain res it perform even faster on on par to the 5970, overall it is 10/20% than the 5870 in some games shows a 40% lead, it will only get better as drivers mature and directx 11 specific games come out

fermi architecture is far superior on dx 11 and tessellation, scales much better on SLI than ati CF, and its is much faster for Anti aliasing


In top of all that fermi is for much more than just gaming, it naively supports C++ lenguage and has a huge potential on the GPGPU field with its cuda applications



And to all the people saying that fermi heat would kill the card: You are utterly wrong nvidia confirmed that fermi is designed to run on hot temps and that wont affect the cards life


Fun fact: dual sli gtx 480 fermi performs on par and sometimes is even faster than quad crossfire 5970
not to mention dual sli gtx 480 costs 1000$ whereas quad crossfire 5970 cost 1400$ and scales terribly, gtx 480 performance will only get better after drivers mature and games that utilize dx 11 more heavily release

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a b U Graphics card
April 16, 2010 1:13:16 AM

^ Would you care to back all of that up with valid benchmarks?

Quote:
In top of all that fermi is for much more than just gaming, it naively supports C++ lenguage and has a huge potential on the GPGPU field with its cuda applications

Yeah... sure, with the consumer GTX4xx cards with only 25% of their DP cores enabled? Yeah.... dream on.

Quote:
And to all the people saying that fermi heat would kill the card: You are utterly wrong nvidia confirmed that fermi is designed to run on hot temps and that wont affect the cards life

Sure, but it's still made of Si, and there is a critical temperature where Si degrades over time.


@MODS: Lock this thread NOW
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April 16, 2010 5:42:34 AM

Shadow703793 said:
@MODS: Lock this thread NOW

Funny how you ask mods to block the thread after you ignorantly bashed on fermi, i just cant stand fanboys
Shadow703793 said:
^ Would you care to back all of that up with valid benchmarks

Some benchmarks here and here check all benchs

In most cases the gtx 480 has a 20% lead over the 5870, depending of the scenario it even gets a 40% on certain games and resolution especially with AA enabled to x4/8/x16

In some cases It gets very close in performance to the 5970 and sometimes slightly better, keep in mind the 5970 is 200$ more expensive and a dual gpu

Shadow703793 said:

Yeah... sure, with the consumer GTX4xx cards with only 25% of their DP cores enabled? Yeah.... dream on.
I don't know know you mean by 25% but the gtx 480 is over 5 times more powerful on cuda folding than the 285gtx that helped with the new architecture made up for monster parallel processing capabilities. Just look at the numbers

and "dream on"
Sure fanboy, keep in mind the 200 series are already doing great on the GPGPU field


Shadow703793 said:
Sure, but it's still made of Si, and there is a critical temperature where Si degrades over time.
fermi is designed to work on the 90/100 c, and the wholle hype about crazy temperatures is not as bad as many are trying to make it look like, most of the times with fans cracked up to 70% it reaches at full load 90C


Besides anyone who spends 500$+ on graphics cards, wont have an issues with either heat or power consumption, meaning they would have a good ventilated case with at-least air cooling


Funny how you didn't reply on the sli subject, cause right now dual sli gtx 480 is the most strong configuration in most cases performs on par or better than quad 5970 because it scales terribly, which bt would cost 400$ more than dual fermi

That added fermi Superior architecture i.e (dx 11. gpgpu/cuda, AA,rt) made up for a very good configuration specially if you are planing on going SLI

Look dude i am NOT trying to impose my gpu brad preference here, all i am trying to do is show that fermi actually is a great card, because i am tired of the whole fanboish bashing on nvidia that it been going around here, it feels almost as the biased semi-accurate forums right now tone it down, the OP for example ask for help deciding water coooling and most of the users replied with useless posts that didnt help the OP saying things like "get the 5870 or get the 5970" "ati is better nvdia is no good"
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April 18, 2010 4:16:44 PM

Dude realy?

You come in here spurting nonsense, and refuse to provide valid proof, spurting you'r deluded fanboi nonsense, all while slamming those pesky "fanboys" like Shadow.

Pure crap. Shadow is one of the most well read and educted, unbiased posters on this fourm, and when you called Shadow a fanboy, you lost all credibility.

And EPIC LOLZ at the Quadfire 5970 being slower than Fermi SLI.

That's the funniest thing I hear all day.

The only games where that's true are low budget games such as "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" that don't support SLI

99% of Gamer playing modern games play games with Sli/Xfire scaling.

And In Xfire games the GTX 480 can't touch the 5970.

End of story. Metro is the only game where it was close, and that was due to a glitch, NV cards were running the game on lower settings.
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April 18, 2010 4:29:18 PM

And there is no end of the Wrongness of this statement.

" cause right now dual sli gtx 480 is the most strong configuration"

Here's some faster configs:
4 GTX 480

4 5870

2 5970

3 GTX 480

4 GTX 470

3 GTX 470

4 5850

OWND

THink before you type. That's 6 configs faster than you're "Fastest"
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a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2010 5:13:33 PM

To be honest most people don't have SLI/Crossfire. To be even more honest most people don't have GTX 480s and most people who want one can't get one.

It is absolutely true that the fermi cores beat the cypress. But things don't boil down to how many cores people are running. What really matters is how much money people want to pay. The fermi cards have less price/perfomance compared to ATI card (You have to factor in the price jack of the fermi cards. The MRSP is $500 but they are selling at $550 or even higher now)

The Fermi cards are powerful but you have to read the relevent benchmarks. Sure the Fermi beats Cypress in certain thing, most notably heaven benchmark. But I don't play heaven benchmark. I play games like Crysis and Bad Company 2 and the fermi cards slip in those two games.

Im not the least biased since I waited a very long time for fermi cards like everyone else. Delay after delay they finally revealed a product that can be described as a bust. I went to ATI instead because I probably can't get a GTX 480 even if I wanted to, not without paying a premium that is. Kinda regret not getting my ATI card sooner but the demanding games like Bad Company 2 just came out and Crysis 2 didn't even make a debut yet so its all cool.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, back on topic. The Fermis are extremely hot. 90C would be unacceptable 24/7 operating temperature. The card would function at those temps but the silicon would degrade over time. Though 90C would be an exaggeration since you need to factor in idle temps and not even game is futuremark.

A watercooling loop would be leaps and bounds over air. I have first hand experience with a 5970 watercooled. According to reviews a 5970 is between a GTX 480 and GTX 470 in power consumption. My 5970 idles around 36C idle, 41C game load, 45C benchmark load. This is with i7 at 3.8ghz and north bridge in the loop with a single 3x120 radiator and single MCP655 pump.

Also need to mention my 5970 is running a 24/7 overclock of 1.149v 950mhz/1250mhz core and memory from the stock 1.049v and 750/1050

So my temps are pretty smooth compared to stocks. You might want to invest into a liquid cooling kit. Not only because the temps are better but more because the fermi cards are loud. A liquid cooling kit would be whisper quite.

All the benefits of liquid cooling, the price is hard to swallow but most parts can be kept for future use. Also the heat still gets into your room. I don't recommend overclocking like crazy just because you got liquid cooling because gaming in a greenhouse isn't pleasant.
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April 18, 2010 7:05:03 PM

^ Yep. THe funny thing is that the 5970 is bewteen a 470 and a 480 in power consumption, but bewteen a 470SLI and a 480SLI in power.

(5970 is 2 5870 cores, with only a very small downclock, unlike the 5850, wich his disabled shader cores)
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April 18, 2010 8:08:36 PM

To add to ur scores

quad doesn't scale well.

3 480s > 2 5970s I'm sure of that and seeing as 1 470 is faster than a 5850 and sometimes as fast as a 5870:

5870 x2 > 470 gtx sli > 5970

P.S
oh and btw there is no such thing as 4 way sli. And since 2 5850s are about the same as a 5970 (performance wise) then 4 5850s should be as strong ur charts are wacked out completely)

It has been said on the Internet that 2 way 480 is themist stable and power full setup of them all.
When it comes to just pure chance and games that actually do scale, the we bring it 3 gpus or more.

Here is my chart :

3 480s
4 5870s
2 5970s
3 5870s
3 470s
2 480s
2 5870s
2 470s
5970
480
5870
470

I think it makes sense in avg frames. Now for min frames it's a different story I bet 2 480s and 2 5870s will be at the top. Followed by 3 gpu setups the 4 gpu setups


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April 18, 2010 8:19:33 PM

L1qu1d said:
To add to ur scores

quad doesn't scale well.

3 480s > 2 5970s I'm sure of that and seeing as 1 470 is faster than a 5850 and sometimes as fast as a 5870:

5870 x2 > 470 gtx sli > 5970


5970>470 SLI

Keep in mid that the 5970 is 2 5870 cxhips, not 5850 chips.

It just out of power concern (SOmething NV has thrwn to the wind) that the 5970 is slightly downclocked.

IT realy is a 5870X2 not a 5850X2, and 5870>470.

But it's rather lcoe, in the end it comes down to Power usage and heat (And 2 PCIe used versus 1 PCIe used)

And

4 480

4 5870/ 5970 CF

4 470

3 480

4 5850

3 5870/ 5970 5870 Tri

2 480

5970/5870CF

5850CF


4870 Quad/Tri

4890 CF

480

GTX 295

4870 X2

5870

470

5850

4890

5830

4870

5770


GTS 250/4850/5750

(Stuff that can't play Crysis Down below here :)  )
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April 18, 2010 8:28:57 PM

Whether it's a 5870x2 or 5850x2 isn't important. I'm not comparing arch, I'm comparing PERFORMANCE which the 5970 performs more like 2 5850s.
So whether it can oc or not isn't up for discussion. It's what these cards are at stock.

Oh and here

3 480s vs 2 5970s

http://www.maingearforums.com/entry.php?24-So-You-Want-...

P.S

Don't play the heat/power draw card. That's not wat put
s a card over the other. U can't say well this card uses less but even though it performs less it is on top
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April 18, 2010 8:33:30 PM

I think I'm wasting my time read the link. Btw there is no 4 way sli. The only 4 way card sli is a 285 gtx by evga.

I can't vouche for all of mine bur I am 100% sure 480 gtx 3 way > 5970 cf
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April 18, 2010 10:34:00 PM

5970>5850CF

They are at the same speeds, but the 5970 cores have no disablled shaders, so clock for clock it is faster.

And EVGA is making/made GTX 480s that can do 4-way SLI right?

(Classified or somehting? OR can the normal ones do it?
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April 18, 2010 10:50:54 PM

Classifieds aren't out yet only 285 gtx... Either or the most powerful system is 3 480s. Look at the benchies even 2 480s beat 2 5970s indome benchies.

Don't give credit where it isn't need or where it isn't deserved, and plz don't speak because of paper benchmarks. Optimization is everything and 4 gpus are just a waste as u can see.

Anything over 2 cards is a gimmick I ha a 5979 and 5870 in cf and I got terrible min frames... Especially on l4d 2 I had to disable the 5870 to get the min to go up
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April 18, 2010 11:54:52 PM

:hello:  ^Dual 4870X2s waere not a waste, they were the bomb.

And the Classiefied edtion is soon to be realsed, Evga alredy made a teaser vid of them.

(4 GTX 480 in a 1200W PSU)

ANd 5970>480

2 5970>2 480

And prahps ou were having troubles cuase you didn't push the 5970 to the same speed as the 5870?
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April 19, 2010 12:57:15 AM

Look at the website and stop just "talking". Clearly see optimization for quads isn't there.

Ur doing plain math for something that doesn't work on plain math math. Just because 1 5970 beats a 480 doesn't mean 2 will be 2.

IT DOESN'T WORK THATWAY!

Look at multithreading...how many programs use EVERYTHINg? Crysis can't do more than 2 cards it's a known fact that it doestnt scale properly.

Please stop assuming.

Each time u add a gpu ur scalingcanbecut in half.

Again look at the link
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