Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Chris Trueman" <ctrueman@wavesoftware.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns956AD0850E54Bctruemanwavesoftware@217.32.252.50...

> For me choosing a laptop was so much easier when you simply looked at the
> CPU frequency and bought the one with the highest number.

CPU frequency never was a good factor for comparisons...

> Not so now. And
> so to my question:
>
> Will a Dell Insprion P-IV clocked at 3.4GHz beat a Dell Pentium-M based
> M60
> clocked at 2GHz?

Yes, for sure. As average guideline, a P-M is at comparable clock speed
around 1.6x as fast as a P4 with the same clock. However, on certain
applications like games etc. the P4 is even faster.

Benjamin

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Thanks for the advice. Development tools, it seems to me, use plenty of
CPU, plenty of RAM, and need fast I/O. In that capacity, a Pentium-M with
a 7200 RPM disk and 1GB of RAM would probably do very nicely thank you very
much. But I can't help but feel I'm missing out on another whole 'nother
GHz of CPU performance by skipping the P-IV.

Anyone got any pointers to benchmarks? I'd love to run my own but I doubt
Dell will loan me a couple of machines.


Chris.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Chris Trueman <ctrueman@wavesoftware.com> wrote:
: For me choosing a laptop was so much easier when you simply looked at the
: CPU frequency and bought the one with the highest number. Not so now. And
: so to my question:

: Will a Dell Insprion P-IV clocked at 3.4GHz beat a Dell Pentium-M based M60
: clocked at 2GHz? I am looking for a machine that will serve as a desktop
: replacement handling software development, 3D rendering, games, oh and
: Microsoft Office 2003.

I recently compared two Toshiba laptops from Costco. One was a 3.2GHZ
Pentium 4 with HyperThreading (HT), maybe even the newest Prescott P4
(because of the 1GB cache). The other was a 1.5GHZ Pentium M
(Centrino). Both had 4200RPM hard drives and DDR RAM (not sure of the
speed, but I could look it up from the Toshiba specs; I think both had
either a 533MHZ or a 400MHZ Front-side Bus).

I tried an image processing application (converting RAW image files
from Canon cameras) which was miserably slow on the first Centrino
machine I evaluated last April. I was surprised and pleased that the
Pentium M machine was only about 20% slower with this CPU-intensive
application than the Pentium 4 machine. I consider this acceptable;
we got the Centrino machine for my brother instead of the Pentium 4
machine, because the fastest possible CPU speed was not required, and
I did worry about the heat of this 3.2GHZ chip.

There is no inherent problem with Pentium 4 chips in laptops though
the latest Prescott chips *do* run rather hot (I have one in my
desktop), so I would probably avoid them specifically in a laptop.
But my 2GHZ Celeron (P4-derivative) laptop has been fine - no cooling
problems at all. I think a laptop's cooling solution is as important
as the heat of the CPU.

Costco will let you install and try stuff if you ask them and do it
nicely (they will need to login as administrator). That's how I
did my tests. Actually, I was told that Costco's 6-month return
policy applies to Dell machines that you buy through Costco.com - I
asked (it's in the fine print on Costco.com also). It's pretty nice
that you can return a Dell machine for a full refund at at a Costco
store if you try it and don't like it.

Andrew
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Benjamin Gawert wrote:
> Quaoar wrote:
>
>> You mention nothing about video, and that might be even more
>> important to you than a plus or minus argument about the processor
>> choice. Get the most VRAM with Nvidia or ATI you can afford, no
>> matter the processor.
>
> That's a silly advice, sorry. The size of video memory is quite
> unimportant on notebooks, since even the fastest notebook gfx does
> not provide enough performance to make use of the bigger Video memory
> size. The CPU on the other side is quite important, especially for 3D
> rendering and compiling times.
>
>> Get a 7200rpm Hitachi or Toshiba driver. Frankly, given
>> the track record of heat-related problems with P4 processors in
>> laptops, I would avoid them like the plague. A P4M perhaps, but
>> certainly not a P4, unless there has been a significant development
>> in heat pipe cooling in the last three hours I've been off line.
>
> Well, there are enough P-M-based notebooks with heat problems as
> well. And a P-M under high load reaches the same temperatures like a
> P4-M. I'd also avoid a desktop CPU but a P4-M can even be a better
> choice than a P-M, depending on the applications.
>
> Benjamin

Your comment about video/video ram on notebooks is flatly incorrect.
Perhaps five years ago, but certainly not currently.

Q

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Benjamin Gawert wrote:
> Quaoar wrote:
>
>>> That's a silly advice, sorry. The size of video memory is quite
>>> unimportant on notebooks, since even the fastest notebook gfx does
>>> not provide enough performance to make use of the bigger Video
>>> memory size. The CPU on the other side is quite important,
>>> especially for 3D rendering and compiling times.
>
> [snip]
>
>> Your comment about video/video ram on notebooks is flatly incorrect.
>> Perhaps five years ago, but certainly not currently.
>
> Well, it is correct. More video memory doesn't mean the gfx is faster.
>
> First of all, video RAM size is only important for textures. If
> textures don't fit in the Video memory than the system has to swap
> them to main memory which is slow.
>
> Current high end notebooks use Radeon Mobility 9700 and (like the Dell
> I9100) Radeon 9800 GPUs. These GPUs are below the performance range
> of a desktop Radeon 9600 card which isn't really a highend card by
> todays standards. With the GPU being limited by its performance, it
> doesn't make much difference if it has 64MB, 128MB or 256MB as long
> as the memory interface width and the core/RAM clock rates are the
> same. 128MB makes sense on cards in the speed range of a desktop
> Radeon 9700, speeds which no notebook gfx chipset of today comes even
> somewhat close to.
> Much more important is the memory interface width, and the core and
> memory clock of the gfx part. There are huge differences in how high
> the clock rates are set on different notebooks, and often enough the
> model with more video memory has lower clock rates which makes it
> slower than the same GPU with less video memory.
>
> Saying to get as much video memory as possible, no matter what CPU is
> foolish. Every system is only as good as it's weakest part...
>
> Benjamin

Flagrant bullshit.

Q

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Chris Trueman <ctrueman@wavesoftware.com> wrote in
news:Xns956AD0850E54Bctruemanwavesoftware@217.32.252.50:

> For me choosing a laptop was so much easier when you simply looked at
> the CPU frequency and bought the one with the highest number. Not so
> now. And so to my question:
>
> Will a Dell Insprion P-IV clocked at 3.4GHz beat a Dell Pentium-M
> based M60 clocked at 2GHz? I am looking for a machine that will serve
> as a desktop replacement handling software development, 3D rendering,
> games, oh and Microsoft Office 2003.

Go for the Pentium-M. It's as fast as a 3Ghz, it won't burn your desk/lap
wherever you use it (Pentium 4's are HOTTTTT), and it will last longer than
60 minutes on battery.

I have a Pentium-M 1.4 Ghz (comparable in speed to a Pentium-4 2.6), do all
the things you want to do, and find it speedy and stable and cool.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert@gmx.de> wrote in
news:2ridjoF1ah5f7U1@uni-berlin.de:


> It's simply wrong that a P-M based notebook has to be cooler than a
> P4-M based unit. It depends much more on the efficiency of the cooling
> system than on the CPU itself...

true, an adequate cooling system is necessary, but the P4 runs WAY hotter
than the Pentium-M before cooling systems even become involved.

i've found that the 'bargain' Pentium 4 laptops usually have a cooling
system as their last priority.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Good Man wrote:

>> It's simply wrong that a P-M based notebook has to be cooler than a
>> P4-M based unit. It depends much more on the efficiency of the
>> cooling system than on the CPU itself...
>
> true, an adequate cooling system is necessary, but the P4 runs WAY
> hotter than the Pentium-M before cooling systems even become involved.

It depends. When cooling becomes involved has nothing to do with the CPU
that's built-in but with the cooling design and the fan control. The problem
with the P4 is that even under low load it gets very hot since it doesn't
have power saving mechanisms like Speedstep. And it mainly gets used in
cheap lowend units which also suffer from a suboptimal cooling design, and
this results in the CPU throtteling to prevent it from overheating.

That's why I only would recommend notebooks with either P-M or P4-M...

> i've found that the 'bargain' Pentium 4 laptops usually have a cooling
> system as their last priority.

Yes, but that's also valid for 'bargain' laptops with P-M. You get what You
pay for...

Benjamin