Sandybridge Mobo Confusion

[Bladespirits]

Alright so I'm really confused here..

It seems like all the mobo's coming out for the new 1155 socket atm all do some things and not do others.

P67 can overclock the CPU (if a K series), but can't even get access to the graphic portion on it? Which means no QuickSync?

H67 can make use of the graphic area of the CPU, but can't OC and only the K series has a decent graphic engine on it?

And are any boards actually viable to use SLi in? What reviews do give any info here seems to imply that if you go the SLi route your stuck with 8x/8x wouldn't that sort of defeat the purpose of even offering SLi?

Am I understanding this all right?

 

[wiinippongamer]

x8/x8 will only make a difference if you're using two 5970/gtx580 level cards, a 5870 and even gtx480 only suffer 2-3% decrease in performance even at high resolutions.

 

[moogleslam]

Will any P67/1155 boards offer x16/x16?

 

[jaquith]

Any P67/H67 with a compatible CPU can be OC via the BCLK, and to some degree even is using an onboard GPU with the H67.

Regarding Quick Sync - http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel-Core-i72600K-and-i52500K-Processors-Debut/?page=17

It depends upon what you're using for encoding, I use Premiere Pro CS5 and the acceleration is via the GPU GTX 470 in my case.
GPUs http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe_PremiereproCS5.html

SLI, but x16/x8 - the soon to be released EVGA P67 Classified is a 4-WAY http://www.techpowerup.com/136583/EVGA-P67-Classified-Motherboard-Looks-Ferocious.html As stated above the x8 won't hamper the scaling performance even on the GTX 580.

I have never loved the P55 and the P67 is a baby step forward. They really screwed-up, and should have added PCIe 3.0 support. If you want x16/x16 TODAY then get an X58. My eyebeams are on the X68 with PCIe 3.0.

 

[wiinippongamer]

PCIE 3.0 is already out?

 

[jaquith]

Yes, it was supposedly 'finalized' in November. I've seen the X68 listed both ways PCIe 2.x and 3.x; so what's rumor and reality only the powers that be know.

The availability 'seems' to coincide with the X68 release in Q2~Q3 2011. I'm use to being disappointed.

In addition, they need a new 'SATA 4' standard {12 Gbit/s} ASAP!!! Many SATA 'drives' are breaking the 600 MB/s barrier NOW and a PCIe interface is needed. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227660&cm_re=revodrive-_-20-227-660-_-Product

 

[hogan773]

Any P67/H67 with a compatible CPU can be OC via the BCLK, and to some degree even is using an onboard GPU with the H67.

I dont think this is correct at all unless I'm misunderstanding all the reviews of SB.

BCLK is locked at 100mhz. Apparently you could OC a tiny bit here but only a couple percent.

The K chips have unlocked multipliers which is where the OC in SB really occurs.

Multiple references have said that one can't OC with the multiplier in the H67 boards. And they've also been clear that P67 boards do not use onboard GPU at all and require a discrete.

What are you seeing that the rest of us are not, Jaquith?

 

[jprahman]

Will any P67/1155 boards offer x16/x16?

Sandy Bridge, like Lynnfield, has the PCIe 2.0 controller built onto the CPU die, and the built in controller only provides 16 lanes. So the only way to get x16 / x16 is for motherboard makers to install an NF200 PCIe bridge which multiplexes 16 lanes into 32 lanes. There were a few P55 motherboards that did this, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few P67 motherboards equipped with an NF200 as well. However, as stated above x16 / x16 isn't necessary for SLI / Crossfire, x8 / x8 will do well.

 

[jprahman]

I dont think this is correct at all unless I'm misunderstanding all the reviews of SB.

BCLK is locked at 100mhz. Apparently you could OC a tiny bit here but only a couple percent.

The K chips have unlocked multipliers which is where the OC in SB really occurs.

Multiple references have said that one can't OC with the multiplier in the H67 boards. And they've also been clear that P67 boards do not use onboard GPU at all and require a discrete.

What are you seeing that the rest of us are not, Jaquith?

Yeah, Sandy Bridge bases the SATA clocks, PCIe clocks, and a bunch of other clocks (some of them very timing sensitive) off of the BCLK, so you can't OC Sandy Bridge via BCLK increases... unless you want to corrupt everything that gets sent to or from you hard drive.

 

[wiinippongamer]

Aha, and what drive exactly is breaking the 600mb/s barrier, aside from that ridiculously expensive PCIE SSD, current high end, blazing fast SATA SSD's cant even hit 300mb/s.

Only a person with too much free time and enough cash to wipe their A$$ with it wouldn't be satisfied with current SSD performance.

 

[jaquith]

I dont think this is correct at all unless I'm misunderstanding all the reviews of SB.

BCLK is locked at 100mhz. Apparently you could OC a tiny bit here but only a couple percent.

The K chips have unlocked multipliers which is where the OC in SB really occurs.

Multiple references have said that one can't OC with the multiplier in the H67 boards. And they've also been clear that P67 boards do not use onboard GPU at all and require a discrete.

What are you seeing that the rest of us are not, Jaquith?

BS! Looking at an MSI Manual right now: {BCLK = CPU Base Frequency}
"CPU Base Frequency [10KHz]
This item allows you to set the CPU Base clock (in 10KHz). You may overclock the CPU
by adjusting this value. Please note the overclocking behavior is not guaranteed."

 

[Bladespirits]

Hes right bout Base clocks of 100mhz.. besides one review mentioning of a person getting 115mhz (with no credible verification of it) every review can not get over 105mhz and even get Windows to finish loading. Your not going to really overclock at all with this.. multiplier is the only real way to OC on Sandybridge and that's limited to the K series.

 

[Bladespirits]

Sorry forgot to mention one thing.. Turbo Boost. Which allows the non K series to basically OC themselves, but its very limited I believe 4.1GHz was the max.

 

[wiinippongamer]

And you want more than 4.1ghz? GHZ

 

[wiinippongamer]

BS! Looking at an MSI Manual right now: {BCLK = CPU Base Frequency}
"CPU Base Frequency [10KHz]
This item allows you to set the CPU Base clock (in 10KHz). You may overclock the CPU
by adjusting this value. Please note the overclocking behavior is not guaranteed."
http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af254/Jaquith/P67_BIOS.jpg

Is that UEFI?

 

[PreferLinux]

I have downloaded and (partially) read the manuals for the Gigabyte GA-H67M-D2 and the MSI H67MS-E33. Both are the cheapest (based on the features) H67 motherboards from those two manufactures. (Asus does not have its manuals up yet.) BOTH support multiplier overclocking. As these are the cheapest, I do not think that it is a workaround in the BIOS or any thing like that (that's actually the reason I went for them).

Of course, there is no guarantees about how far it can go/how well it would overclock if this is correct.

 

[Noxtreme]

im understanding it the same way as you Bladespirit. This fact is pushing me back towards 1366 for my new build since no SB can't touch gulftown and does not seem to be trying to. also i hate the idea of paying for the latest and greatest if i wont be able to use its new late and great features. I like the media encoding and image processing perks a lot but i think that gets cut out on the P boards along with the gpu. Anyone know if i would still reap the super fast media encodes and image processing rewards with a P board?

It almost would feel like buying a nice new smart phone but not getting service for it or something like that.

 

[jaquith]

Is that UEFI?

Yep, I am not impressed. SOS different GUI.

I once mentioned in another post that I would be 'impressed' in the 'component(s)' info could be read and be 'optimized' via the cloud.

 

[Bladespirits]

Keep hearing mention of Z68 supposedly coming in a couple months that will be a hybrid of the P68 and H68 giving access to both the fragmented features of the two chipsets. While X68 coming much later (Q3) will be the replacement to X58.

But now I'm just going to get confused about Ivy Bridge which is removing the GPU element and thus no more QuickSync? Seems odd to make something so cool and not even let it spread its wings.

 

[jaquith]

umm 1mhz= 1000khz.
so as shown in the pic, cpu base frequency = 10000
that is 10,000 x 10khz = 100mhz.

an increase in 10khz steps is almost nothing.
to increase by 1mhz you need to increase step by 100.

the base clocks can hardly be increased by ~6 Mhz (which in 10khz is 600 steps)

1 megahertz = 1,000 kilohertz
10 megahertz = 10,000 kilohertz
1 gigahertz = 1,000 megahertz
1 gigahertz = 1,000,000 kilohertz

You're FORGETTING the CPU Multiplier, so you need, from above, 1/31st.

So, 10,000 KHz -> 100 MHz * 31 = [3100 MHz] = 3.10 GHz
OC, 11,000 KHz -> 110 MHz * 31 = [3410 MHz] = 3.41 GHz
Backwards, to achieve 4.0 GHz [4000 MHz] = X MHz * 31 = 129 MHz -> 12,900 KHz

So, IF the P67 cannot support ~13,000 KHz {with the proper cooling} it would be crap -> Id' buy AMD! My feeling it's no different than the P55's and will be no problem for the P67. If it's not then Intel just ended itself -- maybe for good. Not to mention ALL of the OC hardware out there whose companies would also tank.

However, I give Intel some credit and it'll be fine.

--- Comparisons P55 vs P67 ---
133 * Y = 3100 MHz = 23 CPU Multiplier equivalent approximatively.
Therefore, can you buy into a current P55 running a BCLK of 174 {4000 / 23}?? If so then there's your answer. AMD uses the equivalent 'BCLK' 200 MHz. I OC all day an X58 with a BCLK > 190 MHz.

 

[jaquith]

Keep hearing mention of Z68 supposedly coming in a couple months that will be a hybrid of the P68 and H68 giving access to both the fragmented features of the two chipsets. While X68 coming much later (Q3) will be the replacement to X58.

But now I'm just going to get confused about Ivy Bridge which is removing the GPU element and thus no more QuickSync? Seems odd to make something so cool and not even let it spread its wings.

RE: Quick Sync - The only difference is the Integrated Intel graphics sub-system K's = HD 3000 (12 EUs), other SB = HD 2000 (6 EUs) so unless there's some MAJOR difference in FUNCTION all the SB's 'should' still be accelerated.
ref - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)#Mainstream_.2F_High-End
ref - http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-031174.htm

As far as the other stuff?? who knows, but I'm not aware of the P68 or Z68 as anything 'coming' the P68 was part of Intel NetBurst http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBurst_(microarchitecture)

 

[jaquith]

^Nope it's correct. Try this -> http://www.onlineconversion.com/frequency.htm

 

[hogan773]

RE: Quick Sync - The only difference is the Integrated Intel graphics sub-system K's = HD 3000 (12 EUs), other SB = HD 2000 (6 EUs) so unless there's some MAJOR difference in FUNCTION all the SB's 'should' still be accelerated.
ref - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)#Mainstream_.2F_High-End
ref - http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-031174.htm

As far as the other stuff?? who knows, but I'm not aware of the P68 or Z68 as anything 'coming' the P68 was part of Intel NetBurst http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBurst_(microarchitecture)

Jaquith I feel like you're on a completely different planet......you're poo-poohing SB and also saying "yes you can OC via BCLCK" yet all the reviewers specifically state that you cannot. Maybe the mobo THEORETICALLY ALLOWS a change in BCLK but that doesnt mean it actually WORKS with this chip! No offense but how do you know all these SB things if you've never used one, but the reviewers who have been testing it for past few months are wrong and you're right?

 

[Bladespirits]

haha sorry meant 67 not 68 (was a late night)

Anyway... so will I be able to make use of QuickSync on a P67 board? I know CPU supports it.. but will the motherboard allow it? The reviews seem to indicate its a H67 feature if I read it correctly. And even then if you have a graphics card you can't make use of it though one review mentioned you could run the HD2k/3k off a 2nd monitor and make use of QuickSync then.

 

[jaquith]

Jaquith I feel like you're on a completely different planet......you're poo-poohing SB and also saying "yes you can OC via BCLCK" yet all the reviewers specifically state that you cannot. Maybe the mobo THEORETICALLY ALLOWS a change in BCLK but that doesnt mean it actually WORKS with this chip! No offense but how do you know all these SB things if you've never used one, but the reviewers who have been testing it for past few months are wrong and you're right?

As above, this is STRAIGHT out of the MSI Manual!
"{BCLK = CPU Base Frequency}
"CPU Base Frequency [10KHz]
This item allows you to set the CPU Base clock (in 10KHz). You may overclock the CPU
by adjusting this value. Please note the overclocking behavior is not guaranteed."

If it doesn't then you'd be out of your MIND to buy ANY P67!