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Cheapest GTX 470 + Coolest Running

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March 29, 2010 9:54:29 PM

Radeon HD 5850: Overclocking

To check the overclocking capabilities of the HD 5850 we manually increase the fan speed of the HD 5850 in the Catalyst Control Center and use an additional 120 millimeter fan. The Overdrive menu of the CCC allows us to increase the frequencies to 775/2250 MHz (default: 725/2000). Both of our HD 5850 samples are able to run those frequencies stable at only 40 percent fan speed - the gaming performance is increased by about 7 percent.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid [...] ws/?page=4


Conclusion: So you gain 7% from increasing frequency on HD5850 by 50Mhz and the fan is ONLY at 40%. This puts the performance of the HD 5850 at the same level as the GTX 470, but it is quieter and cooler than the GTX 470 and requires less power.

Nvidia pushed these new cards to the limit because they were not competitive with the HD 5800 at the same power levels.
a b U Graphics card
March 29, 2010 10:07:48 PM

Umm... but you can overclock the GTX 470 heavily and only increase fan speed to 70%, which isn't very loud.

It will also outperform the 5850 by ~10%, which will increase with drivers and will become quite substantial in tessellated games.

If you can't afford the GTX 470 or have a hard time doing it then the 5850 is the better buy, but the GTX 470 is a great buy since it performs on par with the 5870 in tessellated environments now, and will do even better later, so it all depends on your uses and needs.

There is a lot of unfounded GTX 4xx hate on these forums right now, it is always like this after a release. Don't believe me? Do a quick search and see how many idiots were recommending the GTX 295 over the 5870 for the <10% performance increase and dual GPU problems for $100+ more. At that time the 5870 was seen as some as a disappointment too...
a b U Graphics card
March 29, 2010 10:11:44 PM

There's a sticky thread for the GTX 470/480 so I think you just use that instead of making a new one.

And the OC argument is never a strong one, especially to people who don't care about efficiency. The OC headroom om the GTX 470 is pretty decent. Yes, you'll need to increase the fan speed but it can still get the job done. And shouldn't you know by now that power efficiency was never a concern to the guys at nVidia?
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
March 29, 2010 11:18:55 PM

The title of this thread mislead me into thinking it was about the "Cheapest GTX 470 + Coolest Running" as opposed to an ATI 5850 fanboy posting. ;) 
a b U Graphics card
March 29, 2010 11:44:13 PM

skolpo said:
There's a sticky thread for the GTX 470/480 so I think you just use that instead of making a new one.

And the OC argument is never a strong one, especially to people who don't care about efficiency. The OC headroom om the GTX 470 is pretty decent. Yes, you'll need to increase the fan speed but it can still get the job done. And shouldn't you know by now that power efficiency was never a concern to the guys at nVidia?

jerreece said:
The title of this thread mislead me into thinking it was about the "Cheapest GTX 470 + Coolest Running" as opposed to an ATI 5850 fanboy posting. ;) 


Thank you sane people.
a b U Graphics card
March 29, 2010 11:48:14 PM

you can overclock the 5850 up to 1000 core and 1250 memory using MSI afterburner and you can incerase voltage with it. it should beat even the 5870 with those clocks :) 
a b U Graphics card
March 29, 2010 11:51:40 PM

Derbixrace said:
you can overclock SOME 5850s up to 1000 core and 1250 memory using MSI afterburner and you can incerase voltage with it. it should beat even the 5870 with those clocks :) 


Fixed.

While the 5870 can hit those clocks with little or no voltage change and still have 160 SP over it.
March 30, 2010 12:08:51 AM

Hey thanks for such an informative thread honestly I was looking for the cheapest and cool running 470 gtx but now u convinced me.

Do u live above the 5th floor k go out on the balcony and kiss some asphalt. I wouldn't have mind if so much if this didn't wreak of fanboy .

Aren't ppl as excited by new hardware me? Do they have to bring everyhing down to settle their preferences
March 30, 2010 12:14:24 AM

AMW1011 said:
Umm... but you can overclock the GTX 470 heavily and only increase fan speed to 70%, which isn't very loud.

It will also outperform the 5850 by ~10%, which will increase with drivers and will become quite substantial in tessellated games.

If you can't afford the GTX 470 or have a hard time doing it then the 5850 is the better buy, but the GTX 470 is a great buy since it performs on par with the 5870 in tessellated environments now, and will do even better later, so it all depends on your uses and needs.

There is a lot of unfounded GTX 4xx hate on these forums right now, it is always like this after a release. Don't believe me? Do a quick search and see how many idiots were recommending the GTX 295 over the 5870 for the <10% performance increase and dual GPU problems for $100+ more. At that time the 5870 was seen as some as a disappointment too...



But GTX 470 is factory overclocked.
a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
March 30, 2010 12:14:55 AM

You don't really need to raise the fan speed either.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2010 12:16:32 AM

sedaine said:
But GTX 470 is factory overclocked.




WTF are you talking about?

And yes L1qu1d, I at least can see through non-fanboy lenses.
March 30, 2010 12:28:52 AM

If you underclock GTX 470 to HD 5850 levels it gets smoked... remember Pentium 4 vs. Athlon? This is it all all over again. The HD5850 is AMD schooling NV.

Like I said and like you will read in news very soon, the GTX were pushed because they were not competitive at the desired power envelopes. Underclock the GTX cards to AMD levels or overclock the HD 5850 to NV levels and whatever level you choose the HD5850 will be faster.

Can't you see that NV made a dog and by raising clocks they are trying to cover up? Do you honestly think they wanted a 95C burner? NO! AMD made them do it!

March 30, 2010 12:33:54 AM



Look at that over clock. Look at those temps.





Look at that noisy beast.





Say no more...




Hmmmmm
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2010 1:22:40 AM

Sediane

You can overclock the GTX 470 just as high as a 5850 without increasing voltages on either and with a minor fan speed increase.

Here is proof:

Quote:
Original This sample Overclocked
Core Clock: 607MHz Core Clock: 607MHz Core Clock: 726MHz
Shader Clock: 1215MHz Shader Clock: 1215MHz Shader Clock: 1452MHz
Memory Clock: 3348MHz Memory Clock: 3348MHz Memory Clock: 3568MHz

Much like its bigger brother, the GTX 470 can overclock very decently. We fired off extra cooling by increasing fan RPM, voltage changes are not (yet) possible.

...

Above, the GTX 470 overclocked. This is Battlefield Bad Company 2, still at DX11 - 8xAA / 16xAF and all settings at maximum. As you can see, even with so much horsepower under the hood, we can get performance up quite a bit.


http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-470-480-revie...

Quote:
Overclocking Results

In order to overclock our GTX 470, we used EVGA’s new GTX 400-series Precision tool while stress testing was done using the upcoming EVGA OC Scanner that provides an artifact scanner. If an overclock passed 30 minutes of artifact scanning, it was considered stable. Fan speed was set to 70% for the duration of these tests.

Also note that the fixed function stage clock (core clock) is directly linked to the speed of the processor clock (CUDA cores / shaders) and as such, you cannot overclock each one individually as you could do on the GT200 series. Basically, the fixed function clock is ½ that of the processor clock.

Final Overclocks:

Core: 721Mhz
Processors: 1442Mhz
Memory: 3974Mhz (QDR)

Our GTX 470 sample simply overclocked like the dickens and screamed its way past the clock speeds used on a stock GTX 480. The memory speeds also saw a significant increase with full stability. Considering the perceived limitations of the architecture, these clock speeds on a lower-end part are simply stunning in our opinion.

Here is how the increased clock speeds impact upon the GTX 470’s performance in the Unigine: Heaven benchmark.



http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...

You can increase the performance by 20% without changing voltage and with only a slight fan speed bump, plenty of headroom left.

Take the ATIFAN4EVER hat off and look at some facts, not idle speculation.
a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
March 30, 2010 2:11:20 AM

sedaine said:
If you underclock GTX 470 to HD 5850 levels it gets smoked... remember Pentium 4 vs. Athlon? This is it all all over again. The HD5850 is AMD schooling NV.

Like I said and like you will read in news very soon, the GTX were pushed because they were not competitive at the desired power envelopes. Underclock the GTX cards to AMD levels or overclock the HD 5850 to NV levels and whatever level you choose the HD5850 will be faster.

Can't you see that NV made a dog and by raising clocks they are trying to cover up? Do you honestly think they wanted a 95C burner? NO! AMD made them do it!

LMFAO

You pawned yourself ! You supplied a o/c review of the GTX 470 with pictures refuting your own fanboi ramblings. They raised the clocks on a 470 80mhz without Vc increase. It returned at least a 12% increase everywhere in performance and didn't use any more power under load. Thats absolute proof the card is not clocked without headroom.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
March 30, 2010 2:16:46 AM

I thought that these new cards might show a shift of flavor to the new fermi cards. Is this just how it is when the shift of power changes? People are resistant to change?

Atm, both brands have good cards. There is no reason to knock either side. The 470's look like a good buy. My only concern is the supply, but that doesn't change their performance, which is good.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2010 2:41:50 AM

notty22 said:
LMFAO

You pawned yourself ! You supplied a o/c review of the GTX 470 with pictures refuting your own fanboi ramblings. They raised the clocks on a 470 80mhz without Vc increase. It returned at least a 12% increase everywhere in performance and didn't use any more power under load. Thats absolute proof the card is not clocked without headroom.


Nice catch, I didn't even bother looking at those benchmarks.

If anything those graphs show that the GTX 470 is an insane overclocker. Wow 4c and an actual reduction of power consumption for a 10% performance boost, that's kick ass.

As for the noise, its such different story than what people think:

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-470-480-revie...

Quote:
TYPICAL SOUND LEVELS
Jet takeoff (200 feet) 120 dBA
Construction Site 110 dBA Intolerable
Shout (5 feet) 100 dBA
Heavy truck (50 feet) 90 dBA Very noisy
Urban street 80 dBA
Automobile interior 70 dBA Noisy
Normal conversation (3 feet) 60 dBA
Office, classroom 50 dBA Moderate
Living room 40 dBA
Bedroom at night 30 dBA Quiet
Broadcast studio 20 dBA
Rustling leaves 10 dBA Barely audible

The idle noise levels coming from the card are fine really, in idle you will not hear the card as we measured 39~40 dBA, which is below the threshold of noise from the PC itself.
Card setting dBA IDLE dBA FULL LOAD
GeForce GTX 470 39 42
GeForce GTX 480 39 45

For both cards you can expect roughly similar noise levels with the GTX 480 being a notch louder when it's stressed. Once the GPU starts to heat up the fan RPM will go up real fast and the card does become audible. We measure roughly 43 dBA for the GTX 470 and 45 DBa with heavy GPU stress. Not at all annoying, but you can hear the airflow.

For both coolers we can say that we like that this cooler dumps its heat outside the system, this way not only will other components be prevented from warming up, the cooler will use fresh cold air for its cooling.

One warning, the GTX 480's heapipe based heatsink is exposed on the top side, touching that card during or shortly after gaming is dangerous, as it heats up real bad.

UPDATE:

GeForce GTX 480 noise levels debunked

Ever since the release today of the GeForce GTX 400 series there has been much discussion regarding the noise levels the cards make under load. Especially the GTX 480 is topic of much discussion. Some sites show numbers up in the 60 to 70 DBa, which honestly just isn't right.

What happens is that people measure differently and often subjectively. If you place a DBa gun a CM away from the graphics card ventilator then sure, you record really high noise levels. But if you play games, do you place your ear directly on the air exhaust ? Of course not, that just does not make sense to us.

We measure real-life conditions. That means we take a distance of 75cm from the PC and place a DBa gun pointed at the PC. We assume your PC chassis is closed and not open, so is ours. Now to proof to you that the GTX 480 is noisy, but definitely not what some media make it claim to be I made two video's of the GTX 480 in idle and under heavy stress with Furmark.

The end result is A PC creating roughly as much noise as say a GeForce GTX 295. And again, we are not disputing that this isn't noisy, contrary .. it is noisy alright. But to say it's at a the level of 60~70 DBa makes no sense.

Have a look and listen to the videos.


Above video shows the GeForce GTX 480 in IDLE = ~ 37 DBa.


Above video shows the GeForce GTX 480 heavily stressed with Furmark = ~ 45 DBa

And that my friends is how we measure. We are not saying that other websites are wrong in their measurements, no Sir. We measure in a real-life situation, and that's roughly the distance where your ears are positioned.

There is one more note I like to make, some sites made videos of the noise levels as well, and it is banging noisy. Just like our video, a video camera will always compensate and increase microphone levels when needed. Making that recording sound out of proportion.

Add to that this, if the only sound recorded is the noise of the PC, at what volume should you play it back to be able to have that volume level representative of what the noise levels really are ?


Notice the side panel is off. The card sounds exactly like my 8800 GTS 512mb @ 72% fan speed, which I find extremely tolerable.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2010 2:47:36 AM

bystander said:
I thought that these new cards might show a shift of flavor to the new fermi cards. Is this just how it is when the shift of power changes? People are resistant to change?

Atm, both brands have good cards. There is no reason to knock either side. The 470's look like a good buy. My only concern is the supply, but that doesn't change their performance, which is good.


Your exactly right, people recommended the GTX 295 over the 5870 when it launched for that extra 10% performance, with dual GPUs and a $100+ premium just because the 5870 wasn't a total game-changer and they were disappointed, and yet the 5870 is recognized as a great card today.
March 30, 2010 8:10:19 PM

notty22 said:
LMFAO

You pawned yourself ! You supplied a o/c review of the GTX 470 with pictures refuting your own fanboi ramblings. They raised the clocks on a 470 80mhz without Vc increase. It returned at least a 12% increase everywhere in performance and didn't use any more power under load. Thats absolute proof the card is not clocked without headroom.




Yeah you got me... it didn't shift past 400 Watts like I thought it would.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2010 9:27:02 PM

We shouldn't argue about things that are completely obvious already. Denying the GTX 470's OC headroom will be foolish. Denying it's excessive power consumption and heat exhaustion will be foolish. Denying that not everyone cares about heat and noise will be foolish. And what's all this talk about placing the ATi cards and nVidia cards at the same frequency levels? That's an invalid argument since both companies define their statistics differently.
a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
March 30, 2010 9:43:58 PM

I can show you example after example of where a enthusiast PC might be using a extra 100 watts over another. Its a real metric, but its not on the level of importance its being exaggerated to in these forums by ATI fans.


Look at this wasteful pos. It cost a extra 110 watts to keep that AMD cpu at 3.8 vs 3.2,
why on earth would anyone choose that ? */Sarcasm.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-x4-965,2389-...
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2010 9:46:19 PM

Wow your right notty, I didn't even think of that. Most on these forums have heavily overclocked CPUs that are sucking close to twice the power as if they were stock.

For me, I'm sucking about 180w as apposed to 90-100w.
March 31, 2010 12:45:01 AM

notty22 said:
I can show you example after example of where a enthusiast PC might be using a extra 100 watts over another. Its a real metric, but its not on the level of importance its being exaggerated to in these forums by ATI fans.
http://media.bestofmicro.com/D/Y/219526/original/image042.png

Look at this wasteful pos. It cost a extra 110 watts to keep that AMD cpu at 3.8 vs 3.2,
why on earth would anyone choose that ? */Sarcasm.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-x4-965,2389-...



Performance/watt

March 31, 2010 12:46:10 AM

Nvidia is sucking a powerplant just to play Crysis at 25 fps while HD 5850 is on a single AA battery and getting 22 fps. Think about that for a second!

Everything Nvidia cards do at the moment is at worse performance/watt than AMD cards.

The same challenges in the CPU world exist in the GPU world. AMD has stated that the next generation of cards will reduce power requirements and increase performance.

Kudos to AMD for a 6 month old card that uses 30% less power and is only 5-8% slower than GTX 470!!!!! Kudos to AMD for making the HD 5870 more efficient than GTX 470 and 480. IN FACT well done AMD for making the HD 5970 more efficient than the GTX 480.

Nvidia is slowly slipping. Remember when ATI was just an afterthought?

FACTS
Every since AMD merged with ATI every generation they have released has brought it closer to NV performance level.

1. HD 3000 was a good effort. *NV was way better*
2. HD 4000 was a very good effort, people started buying ATI and AMD gained 10% market share *NV still slightly ahead*
3. HD 5000 - AMD stated goal is to reach 40-50% market share. *It's now a tough call*
4. HD 5000/6000 - June/July 2010 - 28nm parts - CAN'T WAIT!!!! *AMD takes lead*


Not sure what else I can do to show you the trend, but NV needs to get their act together and STOP playing catchup or they will suffer badly this year.
March 31, 2010 12:48:53 AM

FACTS:

The Temps of the GTX 480/70 are very high as it is, and so is the fan speed, eniding in very high noise and low headroom for tempature increase.

The Temps and the fan speed of the 5850 are very low, and so is the fan speed, ending in veryu low noise and the temapture can be rasied hogher before the chip fries.
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2010 1:04:31 AM

builderbobftw said:
FACTS:

The Temps of the GTX 480/70 are very high as it is, and so is the fan speed, eniding in very high noise and low headroom for tempature increase.

The Temps and the fan speed of the 5850 are very low, and so is the fan speed, ending in veryu low noise and the temapture can be rasied hogher before the chip fries.


Yes those are facts, but they only tell the story in theory.

Also the coolers on the GTX 480 and 470 are totally different beasts.

The point is, a GTX 470 can get a 20% performance increase from a very nice overclock without voltage change and still has another 30% fan speed left in an open bench setup, many popular cases like the Antec 900 tend to cool better than open benches.

Will the 5850 overclock better? When comparing extreme voltage modded overclocks then it likely will, though that depends on a lot of things too. When wanting to overclock without volt modding, they are about the same.
March 31, 2010 1:09:50 AM

AMW1011 said:
Yes those are facts, but they only tell the story in theory.

Also the coolers on the GTX 480 and 470 are totally different beasts.

The point is, a GTX 470 can get a 20% performance increase from a very nice overclock without voltage change and still has another 30% fan speed left in an open bench setup, many popular cases like the Antec 900 tend to cool better than open benches.

Will the 5850 overclock better? When comparing extreme voltage modded overclocks then it likely will, though that depends on a lot of things too. When wanting to overclock without volt modding, they are about the same.



Pentium 4 could hit 4Ghz on air! Think hard about that.


HD 5850 will at least hit GPU 1Ghz.
a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
March 31, 2010 1:10:57 AM

I wouldn't judge Overclocks until the retail boards are out. I'm not saying they too won't OC decently, but there are just too few samples out now to judge imo.
March 31, 2010 1:12:55 AM

What's confusing me is:

Why couldn't somebody mount a I7-930 on a card, add shaders and etc, and have the fastest GPU ever made for like 500$?

Sorry about the noob question.
March 31, 2010 1:18:16 AM

builderbobftw said:
What's confusing me is:

Why couldn't somebody mount a I7-930 on a card, add shaders and etc, and have the fastest GPU ever made for like 500$?

Sorry about the noob question.



X86 CPU and too big and hot. GPU's are more specialised in vector, floating point for reproduction of graphics.
March 31, 2010 1:19:44 AM




What is that card giving the HD 5970 a run for it's money?????? Is that 2GB is see ?!?!
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2010 1:31:30 AM

builderbobftw said:
What's confusing me is:

Why couldn't somebody mount a I7-930 on a card, add shaders and etc, and have the fastest GPU ever made for like 500$?

Sorry about the noob question.


The shaders in a GPU are similar to the cores in a CPU. A GPU can have over 500 "cores", but they are built differently to process data differently. The standard GPU has FAR more raw processing power than a CPU, but it is all dependant on how that raw processing power is used.

I'm sure someone like TheGreatGrapeApe could explain better than I, but this will have to suffice.
March 31, 2010 1:32:02 AM

It's 1 frame, and Crysis at 2560x1600 with aa is a fail benchamark. ( glitchs, no card can run it etc)

The Univeraly accepted bench is:

Crysis, Ultra high, 1920x1200, no aa, and 8 aa.
!