Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

ATI caught cheating in Crysis to outperform GTX480

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 2:49:01 PM

Wait...what? ;-;
April 2, 2010 4:53:22 PM

ATI needs to be spanked... naughty, naughty ATI
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 4:58:04 PM

I didn't see anything about that in the link, maybe someone can explain it?
a c 272 U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 4:59:15 PM

I tried running that page through the google translator and it really messes up the grammar. :lol:  Anyone care to summarize? All I could work out was something about dropping frames or some such.
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 5:02:16 PM

Yeah same here MM, I tried two different translators.
April 2, 2010 5:02:44 PM

.....k we can all close our eyes for this, cuz Nvidia did it with 3Dmark I believe with the 8800s
a c 272 U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 5:26:11 PM

AMW1011 said:
Yeah same here MM, I tried two different translators.

Does your head hurt now as well? :lol:  I'm going to sink a couple of beers and try again to see if it makes more sense when I'm half cut. ;) 
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 5:33:02 PM

Umm... what? lol. I'm totally with you MM! I can't get through that page at all, even with various translators. Its making my eyes hurt lol:-p
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 5:46:16 PM

From what I'm getting from google-translate, I think what the article is saying is that ATI is using a jerry-rigged version of AA/MSAA/etc in Crysis, while the GTX480 is using the actual AA that looks much better... ?
April 2, 2010 7:19:27 PM

If there is any truth to the claim, the news will make its way around. Nvidia would make sure it did for their own sake. I have my doubts though.
a c 272 U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 7:27:09 PM

roofus said:
If there is any truth to the claim, the news will make its way around. Nvidia would make sure it did for their own sake. I have my doubts though.

Or they are just sitting back and giggling their socks off at the concept of the competition having to skew the results when faced with what is effectively the "broken" version of the GF100's. [:mousemonkey]
a c 229 U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 8:05:56 PM

Tweaking drivers to fit bench scripts is nothing new....I'd say it's mostly responsible for the truth behind the "driver improvements will increase benchies" mantra.
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 8:14:02 PM

JackNaylorPE said:
Tweaking drivers to fit bench scripts is nothing new....I'd say it's mostly responsible for the truth behind the "driver improvements will increase benchies" mantra.


Exactly, if you look at Anands launch review of the 5870 and the new #'s generated when compared with the Gtx 480, many are within a frame or 3. And thats 6 revisions ! They are able to say (without lying) a 5 or 7% in Driver notes, increase as long as there is that at some unspecified resolution and quality setting. The next month , they tweek for less AA and a higher resolution and they magically can claim a new 5% increase !. I'm not pointing fingers at either side, but if you added up these %'s in every driver release the number would not make sense.
a c 272 U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 8:22:43 PM

JackNaylorPE said:
Tweaking drivers to fit bench scripts is nothing new....I'd say it's mostly responsible for the truth behind the "driver improvements will increase benchies" mantra.


notty22 said:
Exactly, if you look at Anands launch review of the 5870 and the new #'s generated when compared with the Gtx 480, many are within a frame or 3. And thats 6 revisions ! They are able to say (without lying) a 5 or 7% in Driver notes, increase as long as there is that at some unspecified resolution and quality setting. The next month , they tweek for less AA and a higher resolution and they magically can claim a new 5% increase !. I'm not pointing fingers at either side, but if you added up these %'s in every driver release the number would not make sense.


:lol:  That's why I love taking a poke at that little mantra whenever it gets trotted out, which (in a spooky kind of way) seems to coincide with every release of a new card from ATi.
a c 106 U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 9:13:12 PM

Umm... I don't read German, and it doesn't translate well ^_^. Anyway, I guess I'll wait and see if any other hardware sites reach this conclusion, using methods I can read, before drawing a conclusion.
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 9:33:39 PM

+1 to that.
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2010 9:46:57 PM

Perhaps one of the Mods may want to contact the Toms Hardware Editors and see what they can dig up... they have too much free time imo. :D 
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 12:17:58 AM

I think the issue is more with the AF than the AA. It seems that there's some sort of bilinear filtering being used from the images nearer the bottom. But yea, translators don't do much for me on this page so I didn't link it to one. There's some discussion on it at XS as well, which is where I got the link from: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24...

I am not sure why people say they can't see a difference. It's small but it is there, and it will have some impact on framerate.
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 12:24:19 AM

Can someone please explain in a summarized form what's happenin'?
April 3, 2010 12:58:21 AM

Even though ATI cards run faster, the image quailty is worse.

But no one noticed this but one german website weeks after the fact.

a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 1:02:50 AM

It takes some very 'smart' and in the know people to catch this stuff thats why.
Long story short , it allows the gpu to work less, increasing performance. Best explanation seems like this post
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4320...
Quote:
For all the people saying there is no difference so its not an issue, if nvidia did this everyone would go on and on about cheating...

bilinear filtering does 5 texel lookups per pixel, trilinear does 10 and then does a linear interpolation between 2 colors, anisotropic uses the view angle to vary the sampling range of the texels, each anisotropic level enlarges the sampling range(non-uniformly) and so the texels sampled increase, it then applies trilinear filtering with the new ranges. This allows the textures to look smooth even when moving through a scene and as a result heavily anti-aliases textures and reduces pixel swimming but comes at a heavy cost.

For example in a standard 1680x1050 scene, the texel lookups counts are as follows:

bilinear: ~8.82 million texel lookups
trilinear: ~17.64 million texel lookups
Anisotropic: (depending on AF level) potentially more than 4x the texels of tri-linear depending on the AF level.


In a still image there is no problem, the major filtering artifacts are movement based artifacts such moire patterns and pixel swimming and mip-level pops, static images will never really show the full picture when it comes to filtering. I cant believe ATI would do this!

I'd would love someone used the 10.3s and the previous versions and see if there is a difference, that nice 10% increase across the board the new drivers bring might be
April 3, 2010 2:11:54 AM

Lost me at "trilinear filtering".
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 3:55:14 AM

Would "cheating" in AF really make a huge difference in performance? I thought the performance hit was pretty small.
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 4:02:12 AM

Doing trilinear filtering vs AF would make a difference.
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 4:11:47 AM

I find it lol that both shadow and randomizer have the same avatar. I confuse those two every time... :D 
April 3, 2010 4:23:25 AM

do u confuse me with bar simpsons?

LOL:p 
April 3, 2010 4:39:07 AM

It's interesting becuase last time i checked i believe their AF quality is superior technically speaking when compared to nvidia's style. I'd believe that it's a bug for now at least.
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 3:31:45 PM

could be a bug, could be anything. Really hard to say especially when we can't even read the article.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 4:49:32 PM

Both sides used to cheat, like NFS and some missing textures, but Why the website didn't post bench both cards @ same settings then to back up their claims?
Its not called cheating if the 480 cant render it at the same settings lmao

If its true or false accusations, Im sure nVidia would never keep their mouth shut for nothing. :lol: 

Anyway, I cant even translate that rofl
April 3, 2010 6:14:15 PM

Google Translator gavce me a semi-readable translation.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 6:20:41 PM

And bob, why did you copy randomizers avatar lol?
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 6:49:30 PM

Randomizer had the avatar first, Shadow copied, then Bob.
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 7:08:18 PM

We should just all do that one day. The forum would be nearly unreadable.
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 8:09:46 PM

^ Yes! We should have done it on April Fools Day!
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 8:43:47 PM

lol- that would have been a BLAST:-D
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 9:21:52 PM

Well, write it down. Only 363 more days!
April 3, 2010 11:16:12 PM

If we did that, Randomizer would just chnage his Avatar on April 1st.
a b U Graphics card
April 3, 2010 11:39:18 PM

Who the heck would cheat on AF improvements ? I think you lose about 1/2 and fps by enabling 16AF these days... not exactly a new feature.
April 3, 2010 11:40:17 PM

I saw this stuff on XS, but honestly I don't really see much difference. Even then, when you're busy shooting things, are you really going to notice what the ground looks like? Either way, it still looks great lol.
April 4, 2010 12:33:17 AM

Edit: Nevemrind,.

On topic: ID this stuff is true, this could make the GTX 470 a semi-decent card
a b U Graphics card
April 4, 2010 12:38:12 AM

still overpriced IMO.
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 4, 2010 12:40:18 AM

Even if there's a small visual difference, it'll probably be just as imperceptible as the normal quality difference is between ATI and nVidia.
April 4, 2010 1:19:32 AM

Right, But this could possibly be a game-changer.

If the Crysis prefromance got a 5% boost, and it was lowered in price to 300$, It could be a good deal.
a b U Graphics card
April 4, 2010 1:23:15 AM

Honestly Crysis isn't even playable with AA on anyway. I really really do not care for the GTX 480. (2560x1600 resolution)
April 4, 2010 1:26:23 AM

Crysis is playble at all resoultions with aa except 2560x1600 with a 5970.

Crysis just doesn't work at 2560x1600 with AA with even 4 GTX 480s as of now.
a b U Graphics card
April 4, 2010 1:56:42 AM

If the visuals look about the same, and I get a 5% fps boost.... isn't that supposed to be called 'optimization' and not 'cheating' ... ?
a b U Graphics card
April 4, 2010 2:02:07 AM

If you move around the textures apparently flicker, something a screenshot of standing still won't show you.
a b U Graphics card
April 4, 2010 3:05:21 AM

Hmm, I do have some serious shadow flicker in Dirt 2, but I think that was their patch. I'll have to run a little Crysis later and see if I can see any difference.
a b U Graphics card
April 4, 2010 3:19:09 AM

Ati has always given me random flickering issues in some games (see bfbc2, Dirt2, Mount and Blade) Usually requires a patch to fix, nothing new if this is happening in crysis.
!