CML174 ramblings

gourdo_1

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Dec 14, 2002
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Well, I've got my CML174 and I'm fairly satisfied. It has two dead subpixels, one of which is a green gem that spots a black screen... so I might try my luck at the roulette wheel and send it back to see if I luck out with a better panel.

In any case, I have a few observations I thought I'd throw out there.

First of all the hottest topic these days, color depth. Though hitachi and the panel manufacturer AU Optronics have both implied this is a 256K color (18bit) display, I have yet to see anything that might indicate it's anything but 24bit. I've created several gradients in photoshop, downloaded several more on the web, all of which look absolutely atrocious at 16bits and all look absolutely perfect on this display. I challenge anyone to create or point me to an image that could differentiate between this panel and 24 bits. I'm pretty sure it can't be done. I created such a fine gradient in photoshop that when the video card was set to 16 bits, exactly four color bands cover the screen. When the video card is switched to 32bits, the bands disappear and a VERY subtle yet seamless gradient is apparent. Since an 18 bit color space should have 4 times as many colors as 16 bits, i would expect to see 16 finely differentiated color bands when viewing this gradient on an 18bit display. Since this is not the case, the display must either be 24 bits or else it's performing some unbelievably accurate interpolation that is beyond the ability of the human eye to discern. If the display really is 18 bits, perhaps Hitachi or AU Optroincs could explain, because I'd be rather amazed.

Next topic... Brightness. I read a review that knocked this panel for its lack of brightness, or rather that it shipped with brightness all the way at 100%. Um... Are they crazy? I stare at a computer screen for 8 hours a day regularly. If I had to look at this display set at anything over "30" brightness for an extended period, I think my eyes would fall out of their sockets. Unless you plan to use your LCD panel as a search and rescue spotlight, this panel is plenty bright, with room to spare as the backlight ages and dims (incidentally CCFL backlights are dirt cheap if you ever needed to replace them a few years down the road). Incidentally, I have brightness set at "0" right now and find it quite suitable for typing black text on a white background.

Darkness. CRTs win hands down here. I hear lack of pure black is a problem for pretty much all LCD panels. This is apparently due to the fact that when closed, LCD crystals do not perfectly shut out all light generated by the backlight. Well, maybe I'm way off base here, but it seems that a simple translucent black filter fit over the screen during manufacture would be appropriate. Ideally, a filter would cut out enough light that blacks are much blacker, and since backlights are already too bright on most LCDs, bright colors would still show through quite adequately. So, why don't manufacturers do this?

Response time. CML174 is the quickest out there right now and in my humble opinion it's fine for games and movies. It's not as quick as a CRT however, and this is mostly noticeable for me when scrolling a browser windows, but I can certainly live with it.

Viewing angle. Ok I'll admit a bit disappointing. When the maufacturer states 150 degrees horizontally and vertically, I expect to be able to swivel 75 degrees in any direction with negligible display degradation. I'd say that the CML174 has decent display quality up to about 45 degrees each way, and even then color balance is off and contrast is reduced. In fact, this display is marginally better than my 3 year old laptop display in that regard. It's most annoying when you have someone looking over your shoulder and they aren't experiencing the same thing you are... then again, when you consider that I will hopefully be avoiding bloodshot CRT eyes with this panel, the tradeoff is well worth it.

--Gordo
 

kdo2milger

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May 26, 2002
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Very nicely said, if you don't mind me saying so...

<font color=red><b>We all love disassembling things to see how it works,
but who wants to put it back together again?
 

jyoung

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Just got mine and agree , however no dead pixels and the black looks pretty good to me. Correct on the viewing angles but doesn't bother me
 

NoTiG

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Darkness. CRTs win hands down here. I hear lack of pure black is a problem for pretty much all LCD panels. This is apparently due to the fact that when closed, LCD crystals do not perfectly shut out all light generated by the backlight. Well, maybe I'm way off base here, but it seems that a simple translucent black filter fit over the screen during manufacture would be appropriate. Ideally, a filter would cut out enough light that blacks are much blacker, and since backlights are already too bright on most LCDs, bright colors would still show through quite adequately. So, why don't manufacturers do this?

The best i've seen it explained is here: "I own a 2000FP and the black level is far from perfect, I admit. But it's still better than Samsung 181T but inferior to Dell's smaller monitor the 1702FP. If you cannot stand it just get a refund. Your next 2000FP won't have a better black level than the one you have right now. It is the sad side effect of the technology the use in this panel namely: the MVA (Multi-domain Vertical Alignment) which causes the ugly light leakage when you view the black color at specific angles. The best LCDs for black levels are those based on the IPS (In-Plane Switching) technology. They usually have slower response times however."

I could not find what type of panel the CML174 uses but I assume its some kind of MVA. Which is why this news is exciting:

A 20.1 inch UXGA TFT-LCD by LG-Phillips begins mass production early this December.

-S-IPS (which gives it a 176degree viewing angle)
-SNB (stands for super narrow Bezel 9.5mm)
-16MS response time
-1600 X 1200 resolution
-luminance 250 cd/m²

http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/18210.html
http://www.sid.org/news/newproducts.html

It would be interesting to find out if the CML174 uses the S-IPS that Hitach used in the previous model. If it is IPS I don't see why the black is not great? Also the viewing angles on IPS are better so that problem would be gone also.

A few months ago I was looking at the Hitachi 181sx and if you look at the Drive method it is: Active Matrix Colour TFT, Super IPS

The CML 174sx however Drive method is: Active Matrix Color TFT

So, I am waiting for an S-IPS panel with 16 MS respons time and size anywhere from 17 to 20 inches. I will be buying by April so hopefully something comes out before then :)
 

flamethrower205

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Jun 26, 2001
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The lcd u mention by philips is actually 25 ms response time. The earlier specs are incorrect (I was pissed that it's 25 not 16).

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti
 

flamethrower205

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This is taken from the Philips website about the new 20.1" LCD:
<A HREF="http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com:8888/English/news/n_cozy.html?idx=456&offset=0&pkinds=movement&pname=news" target="_new">http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com:8888/English/news/n_cozy.html?idx=456&offset=0&pkinds=movement&pname=news</A>
and
<A HREF="http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com:8888/English/product/p.html" target="_new">http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com:8888/English/product/p.html</A>
Apparently Sharp has a new 20.1" LCD w/ the 10 bit gamma, seen from here:
<A HREF="http://www.sid.org/news/newproducts.html#2" target="_new">http://www.sid.org/news/newproducts.html#2</A>

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti
 

NoTiG

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"The display utilizes LG.Philips LCD's Super In-plane Switching (IPS) and Super Narrow-bezel (SNB) technology, enabling a thinner display with a wider viewing angle, higher contrast ratio and faster response time than other TFT-LCDs currently on the market"

hmm, so it's says its response time is faster, but the current monitors are 16 ms or 25 ms already. Maybe it was a typo? or not , but still it looks like a nice monitor.