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~$1000 Performance Build

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May 9, 2010 3:50:38 PM

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: Hopefully this week. BUDGET RANGE: Around $1000 not including monitor/s.

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Photo editing, 3D rendering, gaming, internet surfing.

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: (e.g.: keyboard, mouse, speakers)

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: newegg.com is my favorite but I don't care as long as they have decent reviews COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: United States

PARTS PREFERENCES: Intel CPU, NVIDIA GPU

OVERCLOCKING: Maybe SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Maybe (will I need to for using two monitors?

MONITOR RESOLUTION: probably 1680x1500, I'm going to go look at monitors sometime

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: I have most of it picked out (I think)... I am having a hard time with the PSU and the cooling though.

--------

Here is my current Newegg wishlist:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx...

Thanks everyone!

More about : 1000 performance build

May 9, 2010 4:33:28 PM

Right off the bat, at first glance ... the RAM kit is not compatible !!

That is a dual channel mobo and you selected a 3 ch kit ... you only need 4GB ....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Every part in your build should be vetted by our experts ... the DVDR is about the only part I would "approve", out of hand ...

VERY important !!! You want an nVidia video card that supports OpenGL 3.0, 3.1 or 3.2

My suggestion would be this ... It supports 2x monitors at hi rez and a 2nd nVidia card will allow up to 4 monitors ... SLI is not required, but is OK ... One or 2 of these ...

ZOTAC ZT-20109-10P GeForce GTS 250 1GB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$10 off w/ promo code VGA5152, limited time offer $129.99 (minus $10 = $120)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Model
Brand ZOTAC
Model ZT-20109-10P
Interface
Interface PCI Express 2.0 x16
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer NVIDIA
GPU GeForce GTS 250
Core Clock 675MHz
Shader Clock 1620MHz
Stream Processors 128
Memory
Effective Memory Clock 2000MHz
Memory Size 1GB
Memory Interface 256-bit
Memory Type DDR3
3D API
DirectX DirectX 10
OpenGL OpenGL 3.2
Ports
HDMI 1 x HDMI
D-SUB 1 x D-SUB
DVI 1 x DVI
General
Max Resolution VGA (Up to 2048x1536)
Dual-link DVI (Up to 2560x1600)
SLI Support SLI Ready
Cooler With Fan
System Requirements Power requirements:
450-watt power supply recommended
122-watt max power consumption
Dual-Link DVI Supported Yes
HDCP Ready Yes
Dimensions Height: 4.376in - 111.15mm
Width: 7.48in - 189.992mm
Features
Features ECO Edition
Manufacturer Warranty
Parts Lifetime limited
Labor Lifetime limited


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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May 9, 2010 4:52:06 PM

I'm aware that you said you prefer Intel/nVidia, but if you can get over that preference, than you can avoid their price premiums and get with a more graphically powerful and overclockable AMD platform...



I'm fairly sure that build supports dual CFX... correct me if I'm wrong... and if the 955 is as similar to the 965 as people are saying, then it has some major OC headroom. I'm running a 965 stable right now at 4ghz. :) 

Oh, and note that the 5850 supports DX11...

I left out a CPU cooler, though. I'd suggest the Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer for you... it's relatively cheap, it outperforms the Ultra 212 on my system, and can fit in the CM 690 II case. They even give you a free tube of TX2 grease with it. :) 

Any thoughts, or do you still want to stick with Intel?
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May 9, 2010 4:57:46 PM


Got NO problem with AMD ... Except ... In YOUR case ... nVidia OpenGL 3.x is a "requirement" ... and ... AMD does not support SLI.

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May 9, 2010 5:04:24 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
I'm aware that you said you prefer Intel/nVidia, but if you can get over that preference, than you can avoid their price premiums and get with a more graphically powerful and overclockable AMD platform...

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss235/Mark3Website/suggest.png

I'm fairly sure that build supports dual CFX... correct me if I'm wrong... and if the 955 is as similar to the 965 as people are saying, then has some major OC headroom. I'm running a 965 stable right now at 4ghz. :) 

Oh, and note that the 5850 supports DX11...

I left out a CPU cooler, though. I'd suggest the Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer for you... it's relatively cheap, it outperforms the Ultra 212 on my system, and can fit in the CM 690 II case. They even give you a free tube of TX2 grease with it. :) 

Any thoughts, or do you still want to stick with Intel?


Hmm, very nice, I'll probably go with that actually. Are you sure the extra 2 or 4 gigs or RAM won't help? Also, I just stumbled upon http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... do you think that is worth buying? If I build I will most likely go with what you set up there, thanks very much!
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May 9, 2010 5:04:32 PM

I'm not sure about pre-built systems... you'll have to ask someone else about that...

I think that what you found is the same case as before, though... a massive processor but a graphics card that would bottleneck it during gaming.

Honestly, I barely ever go over 3gb of RAM usage on my PC... ever... in your case, though, since you're doing 3d rendering, I'm not sure how much you'd need. For gamers, it's mostly the speed of the RAM over the quantity. As I said, though, I'm not sure about how much you'd need.

Oh, and maybe Alvin can answer this for me. I don't really know whether or not iBuyPower gives you the actual Windows installation CD with a PC or not... I know people like HP and Dell have resorted to just handing out "restore dvd's", which are basically windows plus the company's bloatware.

No problem... I'm always glad to help. :) 

EDIT:
Whoa, hang on a second... I just saw that the memory standard on that board was ddr3-1066... that isn't good... hang on, I'd better find a different board that will work with that RAM...
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May 9, 2010 5:15:56 PM

As long as you are not doing lots of complex rendering and transcoding (of video or very large RAW files) then 4GB RAM should be AMPLE.

That VERY SAME RAM KIT that I spec'd out on my first reply will work in ANY AM3 socket mobo (as well as all INTEL socket 1156 boards) and is the fastest stable RAM speed that you are likely to achieve, without major effort. Also a much better value than other premium ram @ $120 ... BUT ... Kingston Value Ram 1333cas9 would prolly do ya just fine, for $105 ... Those are your two best picks (mine, anyway).

=
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May 9, 2010 5:23:51 PM

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Photo editing, 3D rendering, gaming, internet surfing.

Your most important decision, here, is the video card. If you are truly going to spend more time gaming, then do a Radeon 5770, 5850, 5870 ...

... BUT ... *IF* you are seriously commited to using a broad range of "Pro" level graphics industry sw tools ... then ... nVidia OpenGL 3.x (3.2) is the ONLY way to go.

... Gaming at hi-rez? ... DirectX-11 ... 2xmon at hi rez? ... 5870 (xfire in 18~24 months)

Corsair 750Watt PSU ... will take care of your future.

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 5:28:38 PM

Yeah, I agree... It really depends on what you're planning on doing. Even if you want nVidia OpenGL, though, that setup with an nForce board plus two 250's SLI'd would still do fairly well.

I'll whip up an updated build for you here...
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May 9, 2010 5:30:19 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
This board seems to be pretty much the same thing, only with an nForce (hmm...) chipset, SLI capability, and DDR3-1333 standard.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Any thoughts?


Great board ... MSI is a decent maker ... Good review stats ...

Pretty sure that it does not come "Hex-Core ready", right out of the box but IS MOST LIKELY FLASHABLE FOR HEX CORE.

Does not have SATA3 or USB3 but SFW ?! (so, ef what?!)

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 5:35:33 PM

Here we go.

Gaming Build



Rendering Build



There you have it. The gaming build would probably perform better because of the single more powerful 5850, but if you plan to work with more professional rendering applications, then you'll want the 'rendering build' because of the SLI'd 250's that support nVidia OpenGL. Oh, and I just saw that the 5850 has two of those standard monitor outputs (wow, how did I just forgot their name...), which would allow for two monitors... probably...
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May 9, 2010 5:39:42 PM

Yeah! ... AM3 955 w/ 2x250GTS SLI would be an all-around solid rig !

Just verify OpenGL 3.0~3.2 support ... only SOME very specific cards do have 3.x.

... Some apps will not even open without it.

Strangely ... Tho ALL newer Radeons DO sport OpenGL 3.2, the pro graphics industry clearly certifies nVidia's implementation as "most viable" ... I have been looking for a "real" answer to this riddle for 3 years, now ... I do have some answers but mostly to do with technical and marketing relationships.

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 5:41:20 PM

Can you post a live link for that PNY GPU ??? (So I can "mother hen" the specs)?

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 5:41:50 PM

Thanks, Al... I do my best... :) 
I'm aware that pretty much all Radeon HD 5xxx cards support everything up through 3.x, but as you said, marketing really screws things up here.

Well, I'll keep an eye on this thread for more responses... going to grab something to eat right now... keep up the good work, Al...

EDIT:

Yeah, I can...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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May 9, 2010 5:43:38 PM

I'm aware that it's $20 more expensive, but I'd been running a PNY Geforce 8400GS at pretty much full load for 6 years, and it never failed me once through about 20 reinstallations. They seem like a solid brand. Free shipping, too.
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May 9, 2010 5:52:44 PM

ABSOLUTELY the 5850 AND the 250 cards both support 2x monitors (from a single GPU card).

Also ... ALL Radeon 5770(plus)~5970 cards do support Ati Eyefinity multi-monitor support.

Also ... nVidia drivers have LONG TIME automatically "find" all Quadro and GeForce products and allow you to gang CUDA and multi monitor support ... even odd models ... So you could mix any Quadros and any/either/or Geforce cards for up to 2 Hi-Rez monitors (active) per card.

Also ... Ati has still not figured out how to do ^THIS^ ... but they are "working on it, really hard!" ... Eyefinity CAN do many monitors, but they ALL work off the SINGLE primary GPU card (even if/when/while xFired).

... Just some interesting quirks in the current landscape.

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 6:26:16 PM

Wow I really just confused myself by reading three threads at once, I hardly changed anything, sorry xD
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May 9, 2010 6:37:27 PM

If you pay close attention ... around here, especially ... confusion tends to be a certain indicator of sanity.

... To put it another way ... total confidence fails to acknowledge the fact that there is far more to know, than can be learned.

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 6:41:37 PM

Well, that's good except for the RAM and the Motherboard. If you want to use the two 250's, then you'll need an nForce board with that processor. The one I listed above is probably the best you'll get for your setup. The board you found only supports DDR3-1066 RAM, too, so I'd steer clear of it if I were you.

Secondly, with ANY AM3 board out there right now, you'll only install RAM 2 modules at a time. The RAM you found IS really fast, but is also extremely expensive. It comes in a 3 module kit, though, which is only used for Intel LGA1366 setups. You'll end up with a spare stick of RAM and nothing to do with it other than put it in a display case and look at it. :) 

Thirdly, the guys at my local computer shop actually refuse to stock the Antec 300 at their shop unless it's a special order, just because of how bad the cable management is on it. I've never a system using one before, but I don't really want to after hearing them tell me that. Just some words of advice... it's your PC, though.

If you want more RAM, then your best bet would to just buy a second kit of the A-Data RAM I posted above. It's faster than a lot of other DDR3 kits, will work in pretty much anything, and is relatively cheap for what you're getting.

EDIT

Oh, lol, I just read the first post, then realized you put something after it saying you didn't really change anything...

Quote:
... and ... AMD does not support SLI.

Open Mouth. Insert Foot. :) 
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May 9, 2010 6:50:16 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
Here we go.

Gaming Build

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss235/Mark3Website/suggestgaming.png

Rendering Build

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss235/Mark3Website/suggestprfessional.png

There you have it. The gaming build would probably perform better because of the single more powerful 5850, but if you plan to work with more professional rendering applications, then you'll want the 'rendering build' because of the SLI'd 250's that support nVidia OpenGL. Oh, and I just saw that the 5850 has two of those standard monitor outputs (wow, how did I just forgot their name...), which would allow for two monitors... probably...


I'm a little curious as to why the motherboard is so cheap, is there anything I'll be missing out on?
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May 9, 2010 6:51:16 PM

To be honest, I'm wondering about that too... I'm going to go do some research on it, though, so I'll tell you here in a few minutes.
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May 9, 2010 6:57:22 PM

Well, the only thing I see is that it lacks some of the features the 790fx-gd70 has such as the "easy oc" dial, "cmos reset" button, and some other things. It doesn't support 4gb DIMMs of memory, either, but that won't be a problem for you, as they're still something like $200 each...
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May 9, 2010 6:57:34 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
Well, that's good except for the RAM and the Motherboard. If you want to use the two 250's, then you'll need an nForce board with that processor. The one I listed above is probably the best you'll get for your setup. The board you found only supports DDR3-1066 RAM, too, so I'd steer clear of it if I were you.

Secondly, with ANY AM3 board out there right now, you'll only install RAM 2 modules at a time. The RAM you found IS really fast, but is also extremely expensive. It comes in a 3 module kit, though, which is only used for Intel LGA1366 setups. You'll end up with a spare stick of RAM and nothing to do with it other than put it in a display case and look at it. :) 

Thirdly, the guys at my local computer shop actually refuse to stock the Antec 300 at their shop unless it's a special order, just because of how bad the cable management is on it. I've never a system using one before, but I don't really want to after hearing them tell me that. Just some words of advice... it's your PC, though.

If you want more RAM, then your best bet would to just buy a second kit of the A-Data RAM I posted above. It's faster than a lot of other DDR3 kits, will work in pretty much anything, and is relatively cheap for what you're getting.

EDIT

Oh, lol, I just read the first post, then realized you put something after it saying you didn't really change anything...

Quote:
... and ... AMD does not support SLI.

Open Mouth. Insert Foot. :) 


I'm more confused now haha

I thought I had the same GPUs and same board you had before. Also, how can I put in 2gbs x4 RAM if I can only have two in at one time like you said?

Could you just put together a build like you had before with the 2 250's and 6 gbs of ram?
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May 9, 2010 7:00:15 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
Can you give me an overall budget for your total build?


I don't want to go over $1,300 and I don't think I need to
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May 9, 2010 7:01:39 PM

Can you give me an overall budget for your total build?
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May 9, 2010 7:04:52 PM

As usual, it depends on what you're using the computer for. It has a massive processor, but is rather lacking in the graphics area, and doesn't support nVidia OpenGL 3.x which is used by many professional rendering programs. If you want more RAM, it would be better to add another kit to the build I listed above. It would have a lot more graphics power than the other thread you found, and would OC exceptionally well. It would be in the same budget range, too.

Here, I'll pull together a final build for you. It should fill everything you're looking for...
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May 9, 2010 7:06:00 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
As usual, it depends on what you're using the computer for. It has a massive processor, but is rather lacking in the graphics area, and doesn't support nVidia OpenGL 3.x which is used by many professional rendering programs. If you want more RAM, it would be better to add another kit to the build I listed above. It would have a lot more graphics power than the other thread you found, and would OC exceptionally well. It would be in the same budget range, too.

Here, I'll pull together a final build for you. It should fill everything you're looking for...


You sound like you know what you're talking about, I'll wait for the build :D 
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May 9, 2010 7:11:22 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
Did you need both windows and a monitor?


I do need Windows and a monitor but I'd rather go and look at a store for my monitor so don't include that in the $1300 Same with the keyboard and mouse
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May 9, 2010 7:11:56 PM

alright then... I'll hurry up and get a screenshot of this for you. :) 
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Best solution

May 9, 2010 7:23:24 PM

Well, here you are... pretty much everything you could possibly need.



That includes a better Cooler Master CPU cooler, so be sure to read up on how to install an aftermarket cooler. :)  It gives you 8gb of fast RAM, better graphics performance than a single GTX 285, and a very overclocking-friendly platform in general.

It might be slightly overbudget, though, but I'm sure that the performance gained would more than make up for it.

Al, if you're still there, be sure to look over this to make sure I didn't miss, forget, or screw anything up.
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May 9, 2010 7:28:04 PM

Looks really good. I think I should post this as a new thread to get some more go-aheads before ordering it all. Do you mind if I link to this picture on your Photobucket account?

Also, do I need to buy the DVI cables separately or do those usually come with the GPU?
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May 9, 2010 7:29:36 PM

I just read that the board only came with one SATA cable, so if that review was true, you might want to throw in an extra one just in case.
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May 9, 2010 7:30:06 PM

No problem. I think they should come with the GPU or Monitor, too...

That Photobucket account is pretty much just the one I let people use if they want to put something on the internet, so go ahead... There's a little bit of everything in it right now...

That's probably a good idea... make a new topic to be sure everything works.
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May 9, 2010 7:31:11 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
I just read that the board only came with one SATA cable, so if that review was true, you might want to throw in an extra one just in case.


I thought SATA's were for HDD's?
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May 9, 2010 7:32:11 PM

SATA's are for pretty much everything... your DVD Burner and HDD's both use SATA Cables to be more specific.
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May 9, 2010 7:40:23 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
SATA's are for pretty much everything... your DVD Burner and HDD's both use SATA Cables to be more specific.


What size do you think? I have no idea what I'll need since I haven't done this before
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May 9, 2010 7:44:28 PM

Best answer selected by sathoro.
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May 9, 2010 7:44:54 PM

Looks great (like it'll fly) but ...

1) Drop that stupid surge protector ... the PSU is good enough ...

2) add a 2nd, 7200.12 (or spinpoint F3) 500GB (boot/apps) drive for $55

= Great Job ! =
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May 9, 2010 7:47:26 PM

2 drives are necessary for HDV/AVCHD edit workflow ... some notebooks do it on one drive ... isn't pretty, tho.

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 7:50:24 PM

Alvin Smith said:
Looks great (like it'll fly) but ...

1) Drop that stupid surge protector ... the PSU is good enough ...

2) add a 2nd, 7200.12 (or spinpoint F3) 500GB (boot/apps) drive for $55

= Great Job ! =


I'm keeping the surge protector. My house has been hit by lightning before, I'm not exactly lucky when it comes to frying electronics.

Is that what a SSD is? Can you suggest one? I have read some about them and I am sort of confused how you configure it so that just some apps / booting uses it
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May 9, 2010 8:10:25 PM

no ... those are just two good cheap really fast media streaming Hard Drives ...

Take your pick of these two drives ... for boot and apps ... The faster 1TB drive is to be the "media streamer" ... Create a 250GB primary partition on the 1TB drive, for active edit projects (fastest zone is outer 3rd of platter(s)) ... So ... one drive is "workin the app" while the other streams the media files (at higher rate). The bright side is that you won't need RAID-0 for Compressed HD.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Forget the SSD, for now ... it is not worth stretching your budget aand may add undue complexity to your sw config process. But ... if you are truly interested ... I'll discuss the landscape.

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May 9, 2010 8:22:40 PM

So .. to summarize and give you an exact recommendation ...

Install your system and apps on this drive ... one large (full capacity) primary bootable system partition with all apps installed to the "programs" folder ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The 2nd drive is a 1TB dual platter drive which is primarily used for active media content creation projects (primary/outer partition) and a secondary partition (inner two thirds or three quarters) for archives and inactive project storage.
... The primary partition should only have one ROOT LEVEL directory and should be not less than 200GB and not more than 300GB (make it 250GB). This is where you ingest and edit footage and where you do renders. I even plan a dedicated render-to drive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 8:32:52 PM

sathoro said:
I thought I had the same GPUs and same board you had before. Also, how can I put in 2gbs x4 RAM if I can only have two in at one time like you said?


Not quite right.

AMD & Intel 1156 work with dual-channel RAM. This means that in order to get the best performance, you add RAM in sets of 2 sticks. 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. Ideally, this is 4 or 8 GB for most builds (4 being enough for gaming), but you could still get dual-channel performance with just 6 GB if you went 2+2+1+1. Most people, however, are just going to get 4x 2 GB sticks and go up to 8 GB.

Intel 1366 uses triple-channel RAM. This means that for best performance, you add RAM in sets of 3 sticks. 3, 6, 9, etc.

In all cases, you don't have to stick with the recommended pairings, but you will lose a little bit of performance by doing so.
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May 9, 2010 9:12:58 PM

Sleep is correct about the 4+2=6GB config but requires that you get all sticks of same timings from same manufacturer (to be practical) ... That is why almost all builds go with all-identical modules (sticks) ... just ensures (moreso) that all timings and voltages will be equal and balanced ... and, starting with 1600cas8, things start to get pretty tight ... go to 3 channel and timing even becomes "pickier" ... That is why *I* would pay extra for a "certified" 6x2GB 3ch kit than to get TWO 3x2GB kits, of the EXACT SAME modules ... even tho they prolly just dip a scoop into that very same parts bin ... gives you "a leg to stand on", for RMA disputes, if timings do not measure up to specs.

= Al =
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May 9, 2010 10:52:30 PM

Whahhhh-HOOOO !!! :bounce:  A 470 ?!?! :o  ... The kid has some Juevos !!!

[:bilbat:5] [:bilbat:5] [:bilbat:5]
[:bilbat:5] [:bilbat:5] [:bilbat:5]
[:bilbat:5] [:bilbat:5] [:bilbat:5]
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