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$500 budget upgrade - i5 750, i7 860, or Phenom II x4

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May 10, 2010 5:43:44 PM

First of all, here are my current specs:

Pentium D 930 Presler 3.0ghz LGA775
Abit AW8 Atx Motherboard
G.Skill 2x1gb DDR2-800 RAM
HIS Radeon 3870x2 1gb DDR3
CoolerMaster RS-500 PSU


So my system is obviously very dated, at least the mobo, ram and cpu are. I've had all this hardware (except the video card) for over 4 years. I want an upgrade that will last me at least two to three years, but I cant spend much more than $500. Here is the upgrade I am considering:

Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8ghz Quad LGA1156
ASRock H55M Pro Micro Atx
G.Skill 2x2gb Ripjaws DDR3-1333 RAM

What I am wondering is if it would be worth it to get an i5-750 instead of the i7 and buy a second Radeon 3870 with the extra money (making 3x3870 gpu crossfire, shows up to 20% increase over 3870x2 alone in benchmarks). Also, I dont really know much about AMD. How would $500 stand up in a similar upgrade with AMD...a Phenom II x4 955 BE for example?

I almost exclusively use my computer for gaming and internet use. I play Modern Warfare 2 and Napoleon Total War mostly right now. Thanks in advance for the advice!
May 10, 2010 5:56:34 PM

dump the i7.if your just gaming. go for a i5-750 it performs more on gaming. and its cheaper.so now. for the mobo. i wouldnt get that if i were you. maybe a P7X58D-E pro. check on new egg for price. good ram.
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May 10, 2010 9:57:29 PM

I5 750 is the right CPU for gaming. I would go with an ASUS or Giagbyte motherboard. ASRock is a low budget ex-ASUS subdivision so check professional reviews before buying one.

I would not waste any money on a 3870. Just save up and get a new GPU later.
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May 11, 2010 4:02:03 AM

Sounds like AMD is not the best option, unless anyone else has input on that. The i5-750 sounds like the way to go. Maybe I'll spend the extra money I save on a decent aftermarket fan and overclock it.

dndhatcher said:
I5 750 is the right CPU for gaming. I would go with an ASUS or Giagbyte motherboard. ASRock is a low budget ex-ASUS subdivision so check professional reviews before buying one.

I would not waste any money on a 3870. Just save up and get a new GPU later.


xurwin said:
dump the i7.if your just gaming. go for a i5-750 it performs more on gaming. and its cheaper.so now. for the mobo. i wouldnt get that if i were you. maybe a P7X58D-E pro. check on new egg for price. good ram.


I believe the motherboard suggested is LGA1366 only, while the i5 is 1156 only. All the x58 series are 1366. The ASRock has decent ratings in benchmarks and is the "most recommended H55" by Tomshardware. Besides the brand name is there any reason this board is bad? Maybe cuz its a Micro ATX? Dont know much about motherboards honestly.

Here are some other motherboards I'm looking at, any thoughts?

GIGABYTE GA-P55 LGA 1156 ATX - $120 (this one has very high reviews, but is incapable of crossfire)
GIGABYTE GA-H55 LGA 1156 ATX - $125 (good reviews, but only one PCI express 2.0 x16)
ASUS P7P55D LGA 1156 ATX - $140 (good reviews, crossfire capable)
GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 ATX - $140 (good reviews, only one PCI express 2.0 x16, but has 2 6gb/sec SATA)

Thanks!

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May 11, 2010 4:13:28 PM

Pretty sure I'm going with the i5-750 and GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3 LGA 1156 ATX. The extra money I have is going towards a CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1 for overclocking the i5. I dont plan to overclock past 3.5ghz, that is plenty for me.
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May 11, 2010 4:46:52 PM

If silence is key, that's a great choice. Else you can get away with a lot less money on HSF for a 3.6GHz OC on the i5-750.
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May 11, 2010 4:48:22 PM

i was wrong. the mobo is P7P55D-E pro. sorry. kinda got mixed up
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May 11, 2010 4:50:24 PM

xurwin said:
i was wrong. the mobo is P7P55D-E pro. sorry. kinda got mixed up


I have that Asus P7P55D-E pro listed above for $140, how do you think it compares to the GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3 LGA 1156 ATX? I heard the only difference is whether I want to crossfire or not...and I probably wont.

Chuckles_ said:
If silence is key, that's a great choice. Else you can get away with a lot less money on HSF for a 3.6GHz OC on the i5-750.


Normally cheaper would be better, but I'm getting a $500 12 month no interest credit from newegg, and I have to spend more than $500 to get 12 months. Therefore, when I decided to go with the i5 instead of i7, I had to get something to bump me back over $500, hence the corsair system. I've read alot about it being used to overclock, it has pretty good reviews next to high performance air systems. Cant stand up to a real water cooling system of course, but should be more than adequate to squeeze as much of a performance boost out of the $500 that I can.
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May 11, 2010 4:53:15 PM

H55 boards are not really B A D. they are not just good enough. for gaming. p55 is the way to go.
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May 11, 2010 4:57:34 PM

ok!. the asus P7P55D-E pro has x8/x8. and has usb 3 and sata3
while the gigabyte is budget p55. but well. it just has usb3. its average. depends on you if you want a GREAT gaming mobo. i would go with asus. if budget gigbye
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May 11, 2010 5:03:25 PM

xurwin said:
ok!. the asus P7P55D-E pro has x8/x8. and has usb 3 and sata3
while the gigabyte is budget p55. but well. it just has usb3. its average. depends on you if you want a GREAT gaming mobo. i would go with asus. if budget gigbye


This is a tough one. If I drop the corsair cooler I could afford the Asus. However, I cant afford to buy two new vid cards to crossfire nor can I afford a harddrive capable of 6gb sata. So many of the perks of the Asus would be useless to me, at least for a year or two. Besides these perks, the gigabyte should perfrom just as well as the asus correct?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
According to the specs, the gigabyte is crossfire capable...but reviews say that it is not. Weird
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May 11, 2010 5:08:45 PM

get the cm hyper 212. it performs best at its price. corsair hydro h50? is that it?
just get that in the near future my friend
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May 11, 2010 5:11:36 PM

sorry for double posting
uhuh your. corrcect it SHOULD perform like that. and you can save more money.
and just stick to 1 vid card. like ati 5850? or if not. a 5770 would suffice
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May 11, 2010 5:13:26 PM

You won't want to run crossfire on the GA-P55-USB3. It only has one 16x PCI-E 2.0 slot. Its second slot is a PCI-E 16x slot that runs at 4x speed.
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May 11, 2010 5:21:16 PM

xurwin said:
get the cm hyper 212. it performs best at its price. corsair hydro h50? is that it?
just get that in the near future my friend


you mean this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

shortstuff_mt said:
You won't want to run crossfire on the GA-P55-USB3. It only has one 16x PCI-E 2.0 slot. Its second slot is a PCI-E 16x slot that runs at 4x speed.


so it can run crossfire, just at 8x/4x?
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May 11, 2010 5:25:40 PM

I suppose you COULD run Crossfire on the board, but it would be a VERY bad idea. The 4x speed would severely impact performance. If you read the board description you'll also notice that if you use the PCI-E 1x slot that the 4x slot drops to 1x speed. That board has very limited PCI-E bandwidth and should absolutely not be used for Crossfire.
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May 11, 2010 5:27:59 PM

8x/4x its what we say. .hmm. C R A P. its horroble. 8x/8x would be the proper crossfire. to get a performance boost. or x16/x16 which is for the x58 chipset.

and i mean that one. yes
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May 11, 2010 5:33:09 PM

stonedzen said:


What I am wondering is if it would be worth it to get an i5-750 instead of the i7 and buy a second Radeon 3870 with the extra money (making 3x3870 gpu crossfire, shows up to 20% increase over 3870x2 alone in benchmarks). Also, I dont really know much about AMD. How would $500 stand up in a similar upgrade with AMD...a Phenom II x4 955 BE for example?

I almost exclusively use my computer for gaming and internet use. I play Modern Warfare 2 and Napoleon Total War mostly right now. Thanks in advance for the advice!


Im not sure why people are saying AMD is not the way to go. For that budget and your PC usage it IS the way to go. 500 dollars goes much further with AMD. Just read Tomshardware best CPU for the money articles.


Memory :

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ

$109.99

NewEgg combo :

SAPPHIRE 100283-3L Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ955FBGMBOX

ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard

$403.97


Subtotal: $513.96


Thus for 513.96 you get an entire core setup with a newer video card. You can easily play all your games with this setup. If gaming is basically what you do then why waste your money on an Intel setup? If it suits you, later you can upgrade the video card or go crossfire on that motherboard. I have a crossfired 5770 setup with those components and it plays any game Ive thrown at it on High to Very high settings.
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May 11, 2010 5:42:18 PM

antisyzygy said:
Im not sure why people are saying AMD is not the way to go. For that budget and your PC usage it IS the way to go. 500 dollars goes much further with AMD. Just read Tomshardware best CPU for the money articles.


Memory :

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ

$109.99

NewEgg combo :

SAPPHIRE 100283-3L Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ955FBGMBOX

ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard

$403.97


Subtotal: $513.96


Thus for 513.96 you get an entire core setup with a newer video card. You can easily play all your games with this setup. If gaming is basically what you do then why waste your money on an Intel setup? If it suits you, later you can upgrade the video card or go crossfire on that motherboard. I have a crossfired 5770 setup with those components and it plays any game Ive thrown at it on High to Very high settings.



This is a good point, but I have never used amd and have no reference to weigh these options on. Anyone else have input on antisyzygy's suggested purchase vs the purchase I had planned?

Also, I believe the answer is no, but could I crossfire a 5770 with my 3870x2?
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May 11, 2010 5:55:14 PM

stonedzen said:
This is a good point, but I have never used amd and have no reference to weigh these options on. Anyone else have input on antisyzygy's suggested purchase vs the purchase I had planned?



Basically, AMD is using somewhat outdated architecture and manufacturing process (45nm vs 32nm) compared to Intel. They are competing by lowering prices and doing other work arounds such as releasing their 6 core processors to compete with i7's, having tri-core processors to compete with Intel dual core ones, ect. ect. Please don't misinterpret what I am saying. AMD still releases a damn good product, and their processors match Intel performance in many ways. They usually fall behind in things such as video encoding, rendering, and other similar media type applications. As for gaming performance, the difference is not quite as much. Generally speaking, Intel is 10 percent better than AMD at multimedia applications, and closer to 3-5 percent better at gaming. This is a general factor across the board and depends more on how much of the CPU the game you play uses. Most games rely more heavily on a GPU so its usually better to get a better GPU than a CPU if your goal is to game on a budget.

If you factor in the price to performance ratio, AMD is better more often than not. There are obviously exceptions to this rule, as some i5 combos fall very close to the same price and have better performance. I simply do not see the need to pay a premium for Intel products when an AMD product more than suits my needs. If I were heavily into 3d graphic production (that is 3Ds max or something) and I need every minute reduction in rendering time I can get, I may reconsider this stance. If you want to go Intel 32 nm architecture, you would be paying more than you want to anyway.

As far as crossfiring the 3870x2, I dont believe so. There is a hybrid crossfire mode but I think thats mainly geared for people looking to upgrade their integrated graphics chips cheaply.
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May 11, 2010 5:58:00 PM

i dont know

but antisyzygs build is good to go.
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May 11, 2010 6:01:26 PM

IMO, dont get a 5770. Its not enough of an increase over your 3870x2. Get the i5 now (I would go with hyper 212 or a xigmatec 1283 series <dark knight, balder, red scorpion> or sunbeam core contact freezer instead of the more expensive hydro) and a 5850 later when you can afford it.

If you want to save money and get a budget gamer, get a gigabyte GA-770TA-UD3 motherboard and an Athlon II x3 (which is what I use because its the best price/performance for gaming I could find) and use the 3870x2 until you can afford a 5850.
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May 11, 2010 6:03:49 PM

dndhatcher said:
IMO, dont get a 5770. Its not enough of an increase over your 3870x2. Get the i5 now (I would go with hyper 212 or a xigmatec 1283 series <dark knight, balder, red scorpion> or sunbeam core contact freezer instead of the more expensive hydro) and a 5850 later when you can afford it.

If you want to save money and get a budget gamer, get a gigabyte GA-770TA-UD3 motherboard and an Athlon II x3 (which is what I use, btw) and use the 3870x2 until you can afford a 5850.



Adding a 5770 later will increase power usage but it will put you at a 5870 performance level for 160 dollars more as an upgrade. Only problem is you may need a new Power supply if you dont have a good one already.

I may be able to throw together a build with a 5850 and AMD processor for around 600 but well see.
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May 11, 2010 6:13:02 PM



ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard

$103.99


G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ

$109.99


SAPPHIRE 100282-3SR Radeon HD 5850 (Cypress Pro) 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video ...

AMD Athlon II X4 635 Propus 2.9GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Model ADX635WFGIBOX

$390.98
Subtotal: $604.96

Still has a quad core processor, but also has a 5850. This quad core processor performs slightly worse than the Phenom II x4s at similar clocks in gaming. In multimedia its probably quite a bit worse but I haven't read any recent articles about it. The Athlon II X4's lack a Level 3 cache basically but are similar to the Phenom II X4's otherwise. With this setup you would probably want to overclock the CPU.

For the current trend in gaming, the biggest boost for performance is a higher clocked CPU, and having at least 3 cores.
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May 11, 2010 6:27:13 PM

antisyzygy said:
Adding a 5770 later will increase power usage but it will put you at a 5870 performance level for 160 dollars more as an upgrade.
Buy you are talking about a totally unnecessary $160 right now for a 5770 when his 3870x2 is already as fast as a 5750. Its not worth $160 right now.

Buying a more expensive motherboard and PSU now and upgrading to twin 5770s later would make sense if the performance difference between a 5850 and twin 5770s is worth it. Thats a judgement call I cant make for him.

For budget gaming performance and a single graphics card:
GA-770TA-UD3 motherboard with USB3 and SATA3 ($95)
Athlon II x3 ($67-75)
hyper 212 ($30)
4GB RAM. ($110)
Seagate 7200.12 or Samsung F3 500 GB HDD ($55).
The antec 300 illusion and a good antec PSU are often available for ~$125 as a combo.

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May 11, 2010 6:40:45 PM

dndhatcher said:
Buy you are talking about a totally unnecessary $160 right now for a 5770 when his 3870x2 is already as fast as a 5750. Its not worth $160 right now.

Buying a more expensive motherboard and PSU now and upgrading to twin 5770s later would make sense if the performance difference between a 5850 and twin 5770s is worth it. Thats a judgement call I cant make for him.

For budget gaming performance and a single graphics card:
GA-770TA-UD3 motherboard with USB3 and SATA3 ($95)
Athlon II x3 ($67-75)
hyper 212 ($30)
4GB RAM. ($110)
Seagate 7200.12 or Samsung F3 500 GB HDD ($55).
The antec 300 illusion and a good antec PSU are often available for ~$125 as a combo.


I assumed he is reusing his PSU, case, OS and hard drives. He may in fact be better off waiting to afford a 5850 but a 5770 is adequate now. It depends on if he wants to wait or not. If he doesnt want to wait, at least he can crossfire 5770's as an upgrade. I did it from the get go because at the time the 5870 was too expensive, and two 5770's perform close to the same at a price reduction. Generally I dont recommend crossfiring at all unless you do it within 6 months of your original build (even 5 months is pushing it depending on if new graphics cards are coming out), otherwise you may as well just upgrade to a new single video card.
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May 11, 2010 6:44:58 PM

What resolution does the OP even play at? For all you guys know, he could be playing at 800x600 and everyones trying to put together a 5770 or 5850 build, lol.
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May 11, 2010 7:29:16 PM

143miah said:
What resolution does the OP even play at? For all you guys know, he could be playing at 800x600 and everyones trying to put together a 5770 or 5850 build, lol.

He is upgrading. His next monitor will be 1680x1050 or more likely 1920x1080. But thats why I think he should stick with the 3870x2 for now. I dont think there is enough benefit to a new 5000 series card less than a 5850 if that is your starting point.
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May 11, 2010 9:54:38 PM

dndhatcher said:
He is upgrading. His next monitor will be 1680x1050 or more likely 1920x1080. But thats why I think he should stick with the 3870x2 for now. I dont think there is enough benefit to a new 5000 series card less than a 5850 if that is your starting point.


Lol, I'm just saying, everyone's recommending the OP different cards not even knowing what resolution he's playing at.
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May 11, 2010 10:40:07 PM

I'm running at 1680x1050 on a 22" widescreen with a 2nd monitor at 1056x768. As I said I am mostly playing COD:MW2 and Napoleon Total War. I can currently run these games at near max settings with my 3870x2, but frame rates are 30-40fps with COD and 25-35fps on Napoleon. I am not interested in a graphics upgrade just yet, as I am only upgrading because my mobo is dying. Took a while to talk my wife into this upgrade with a $500 budget, but as I said it needs to last me at least two years. I can work on overclocking the 3870x2 to boost graphics performance but a new card is out of the question right now. This is strictly a mobo, cpu and memory upgrade. I threw on the cpu cooler for the purpose of overclocking the i5. Anyway, hope this info helps guide this discussion. Thanks so much for all the input so far, any more ideas people have are very welcome!
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May 11, 2010 11:23:30 PM

I hate to say it, but there's no need whatsoever for that Crosshair IV. If I were you, I'd go with an MSI 790FX-GD70 board. Exact same crossfire, 8 SATA ports, out-of-the-box support for every processor I've put in it. I've been running mine with a PII 965 at 3.8ghz for 4 months now and it hasn't had a single crash or hiccup. The Formula just isn't worth the extra money. Heck, my GD70 even POSTed on the first startup, installed Windows, and was up in running without a single problem. It even had all my settings set right for me. :) 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

...and it's beautiful IMO. If you really want to spend $70 for a couple more FPS in a game and a red/black color theme, go right ahead. Not my money. :D 
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May 11, 2010 11:34:34 PM

^ i know. i cannot get to 500 dollar though thats why i choose it. and any 890FX board would be fine.
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May 12, 2010 3:11:38 PM

xurwin said:
here. $500 mobo cpu ram upgrade

mobo:asus crosshair 4 formula(too much?)
ram:gskill ripjaws 4gb
cpu:amd deneb 955

380+230=$410 :) )) good



380+230 = $610, not $410.

This exceeds my budget a bit too much, but I've been looking at other, less expensive amd motherboards. So here are my 'almost' final two ideas, one amd, one intel. Please give as much feedback as possible on the pros/cons of each and keep in mind it is 99% for gaming.

Intel upgrade:

Intel i5-750 2.66ghz Quad LGA 1156
GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 USB 3.0 ATX
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)

~VS~

AMD upgrade:

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 Quad
MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD 790FX ATX
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)


Also, any thoughts on the Corsair Hydro System H50 vs a CM Hyper 212 Plus with an additional 120mm fan for push/pull setup. They are about the same cost when two high quality 120s are added to the hyper setup. Hydro does slightly better in most of the benchmarks I've seen, but that is against a stock Hyper212, not one with upgraded fans for push/pull. Any thoughts here?
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May 12, 2010 5:50:39 PM

ow. i hate math. i would go with the intel upgrade. but! i warn you. the LGA 1156 is a dead end socket. 6core intel are for LGA 1366. so. maybe am3 boards are futureprof. becuase of the hexacore. i dont know.
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May 12, 2010 6:06:40 PM

Similar conversations are going on in a number of threads on this forum right now, I'm sure you'll see a number of similar questions & answers.

Nothing is truly future-proof.

Right now, AMD has the most visible upgrade path, in that the roadmap has Bulldozer being released next year, and it's supported on AM3. They also have (recent) history of providing an upgade path from AM2 -> AM2+ -> AM3. That is, of course, no guarantee for the future, but at least it's something to consider.

If you think that you might suddenly need more than 4 cores next year, but will want a new processor, AMD is probably the way to go.

If you are more likely to just run this computer into the ground and then do a new build in 3-5 years, then it doesn't really matter.

On the Hyper 212+ vs. H50: While water cooling can be done well and can be safe, at best, it takes more maintenance than air cooling. Personally, I don't trust inexpensive water cooling solutions. I have not used the H50, so I cannot comment on the quality of the components, but the chance of something going catastrophically wrong with water cooling is higher than with air. For me, that would suggest that I'd want to spend more, not less, on a water cooling solution. YMMV.
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May 12, 2010 6:11:37 PM

coldsleep said:

On the Hyper 212+ vs. H50: While water cooling can be done well and can be safe, at best, it takes more maintenance than air cooling. Personally, I don't trust inexpensive water cooling solutions. I have not used the H50, so I cannot comment on the quality of the components, but the chance of something going catastrophically wrong with water cooling is higher than with air. For me, that would suggest that I'd want to spend more, not less, on a water cooling solution. YMMV.


Ive heard of some people using oil (mineral oil?) instead of water to cool. Id imagine you need special gear for it. I wouldnt bother with liquid cooling unless you plan to overclock the hell out of something. Air cooling works fine the majority of the time even if you overclock.
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May 12, 2010 6:12:30 PM

xurwin said:
ow. i hate math. i would go with the intel upgrade. but! i warn you. the LGA 1156 is a dead end socket. 6core intel are for LGA 1366. so. maybe am3 boards are futureprof. becuase of the hexacore. i dont know.


Yes. Am3 is a better platform long term.
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May 12, 2010 7:11:00 PM

Given what you are playing, I dont see the need to go for a quad even.

Athlon II x3 ($70-75)
Gigabyte MA770TA-UD3 Motherboard <usb3, sata3, single GPU> ($95)
4GB RAM ($110)
CPU cooler ($30-40)

Overclock CPU to 3.5GHz or so, possibly get very lucky and unlock 4th core. Someday in the future you could put in a single powerful graphics card and/or an AMD 6 core CPU if necessary.
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May 12, 2010 8:04:17 PM

Thanks for all the feedback, this is a great community. At this point I'm leaning towards the AMD rig. It allows me to purchase a better motherboard with more options for upgrading if I find a way to afford it the next three years. I've always gone intel before, so I'm honestly a little scared, but most people who arent diehard intel fans speak highly of AMD, especially for gaming. Thinking I'll go the AMD setup with the Hyper 212 plus and 2 high performance CM 120 fans to make push/pull on the hyper's coil. Please feel free to add any more input you have, as I will not be making the purchase for at least two more days. Thanks again!
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May 12, 2010 8:15:02 PM

Give your system specs and most of all how much do you think you will get for those 3870.
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May 13, 2010 12:05:40 AM

mosox said:
Give your system specs and most of all how much do you think you will get for those 3870.



Specs are listed on the OP. Not sure what you're asking here regarding the 3870. I'm not planning on selling my 3870x2 if thats waht you mean. Care to clarify mate?
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