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Sandy Bridge Design Flaw

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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 3:03:02 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703439504...

Nice! So... do you still consider SB a good build at the moment?

More about : sandy bridge design flaw

a c 236 V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 3:08:35 PM

I would say NO...

It probably wasn't a "good build" idea to start with until a month or so after release (to have them work out the bugs :D  ). As you can probably read on this forum, the systems have been plagued with RAM issues, which maybe where this notice points to. It is still a very solid platform but just a little buggy to start.
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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 4:09:38 PM

Yep! This SATA issue and the reports of issues with memory speeds over DDR3-1333 are two huge strikes in my opinion. I have AMD systems currently and have been SERIOUSLY debating on a SB 2500 build, but my high opinion of SB is now dropping quickly. Can't deny its processing power, but at what costs (beyond the hardware purchase) are users willing to accept?
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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 4:13:34 PM

"The systems with the affected support chips have only been shipping since January 9th and the company believes that relatively few consumers are impacted by this issue. The only systems sold to an end customer potentially impacted are Second Generation Core i5 and Core i7 quad core based systems."

...isn't that EVERYONE at this point? And, if you wanted to build a SB machine, wouldn't you now be waiting until late Feb / March for the updated chipset? This is my understanding... or am I not grasping who this actually impacts?
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a c 717 V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 4:37:21 PM

sadams04 said:
Yep! This SATA issue and the reports of issues with memory speeds over DDR3-1333 are two huge strikes in my opinion.

I have known about the RAM speed issues since this article came out Jan 11th -> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/memory/2011/01/11/the-... however, this is the CPU's issue {IMC} and 'to my knowledge' not a Cipset issue. In the graphs, anything more than 1333 MHz is like a wall and the variations are attributable to IC's and CAS.

I told tecmo34 about this observation some time ago, but it there something more that I'm not aware of already i.e. flaw?? I don't want to rumor mill and disseminate incorrect info... I do remember, showing my age, Intel's Floating Point CPU errors.
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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 4:47:01 PM

Ah yes... The old floating point errors. I had one of those Pentium Pro 60 MHz processors (showing my age as well).
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a c 717 V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 4:49:22 PM

Tom's just posted -> "Enthusiasts won’t be as immediately affected. Boards that shipped out already, in most cases, carry a three-year warranty, offering some form of protection. Sandy Bridge notebooks haven’t shipped out in volume. And Z68 won’t be delayed, Intel says. Everyone else: you’ll want to wait until “fixed” boards start shipping in March/April." Joy!

SB Chipset article -> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/cougar-point-sandy-bri...
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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 5:51:05 PM

I think my favorite quote from Intel is that they only expect this to affect 5% of systems over three years. This has got to be a marketing / risk response number. They have no idea how much I/O workload users will see over a three year period. 5% seems like a "don't freak out on us" number...
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a c 717 V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 5:55:26 PM

More like 5% that will have enough sense to realize their rigs are grinding to a halt. It's like placing a frog on a cool frying pan and gradually raising the heat until you've got BBQ frog.

You don't blow 3/4 Billion just for kicks unless the impact will be in the Billions later with a class action suit.
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January 31, 2011 6:33:22 PM

Would it be plausible to just plug you're 3 gb/s devices into the 6 gb/s ports if you have room?
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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 6:38:30 PM

It is plausible, yes. SATA 6 is backward compatible...
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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 6:49:12 PM

jaquith said:
More like 5% that will have enough sense to realize their rigs are grinding to a halt. It's like placing a frog on a cool frying pan and gradually raising the heat until you've got BBQ frog.

You don't blow 3/4 Billion just for kicks unless the impact will be in the Billions later with a class action suit.


http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-sata-erro...


This is gonna cost Intel Billions and the mobo makers millions. It's looking to a lot more than 5% according to the mobo manufacturers.

Quote:
Manufacturers told us that revised motherboards and notebooks based are unlikely to appear until at least April of this year, and Intel probably won't be supplying new chipset revisions until early to mid-March. However, replacements are unclear as manufacturers are informing us that details need to be worked out with Intel on how customers will be handled.

Intel claims that only 5-percent of Sandy Bridge owners will experience the flaw. But speaking with manufacturers, we were told that numbers appear to be far greater than that. Some companies told us that this is definitely a "panic-mode" situation for them.

Motherboards that you already have today will still work, but you may see performance drop over time.

- If you're thinking about a Sandy Bridge system, you will have to wait until at least April.

Clearly, buying a Sandy Bridge system isn't what anyone should be doing at this moment.
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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 6:51:21 PM

Good news because I really can't afford a new system right now. Trying to keep the house and boat payments are enough for me. Soo.... April comes and I can see the Bulldozer numbers and make the decision a lot easier.

LOL
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a c 227 V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 7:01:57 PM

One of the reasons I don't do builds for my own use using "Revision A" hardware components.

Fun being the 1st one on your block w/ the "latest and greatest but they don't call it "the bleeding edge" for nothing.
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a c 717 V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 7:28:05 PM

geekapproved said:
Good news because I really can't afford a new system right now. Trying to keep the house and boat payments are enough for me. Soo.... April comes and I can see the Bulldozer numbers and make the decision a lot easier.

LOL

My company processes REO data for 4 states, and our data forecasts show a bleak outlook from now through 2015~2016. So hold on to your $.

Interesting, I was 'chatting' on Dell's site and they have NO PROBLEMS selling you the affected P67/H67 chipset; transcript:

15:22:47 Jaquith -- What about the problems listed on Intel's site?

15:24:58 Preeti N -- Well, that is on Intel's site in general but on Dell's website or the Dell customer till now have no complains ..
15:28:29 Preeti N I hope that we are still connected

15:28:59 Jaquith -- Yep, I was looking for the link ->
http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog...

15:31:39 Preeti N -- I understand what you are concerned about. However the customers who had purchased through our site of through the store we did not get any issues..

15:34:01 Jaquith -- I'm confused what to do, this is bad timing. Since it seems that that XPS 8300 has the P67, then what happens if I have a serious problem later?

15:37:04 Preeti N -- Please give me 2 minutes
15:40:24 Preeti N -- Thank you for staying connected..
15:41:09 Preeti N -- I am sorry I would not be able to provide you with the information you are looking for as we do not have knowledge of the information which the store holds

15:43:23 Jaquith -- I am really confused now. What are you referring to?

15:48:39 Preeti N -- I am sorry for my dealy in response I was working on it.
15:49:14 Preeti N -- Can I arrange for a call back for you from one our supervisors so that we can help you better with the information you are looking at


My point being, it goes back to the Frog example, and a sucker born every minute...
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January 31, 2011 7:43:55 PM

Anandtech says that it's a 5% to 15% failure rate.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4142/intel-discovers-bug-...

"What About Current Sandy Bridge Owners?

On its conference call to discuss the issue, Intel told me that it hasn’t been made aware of a single failure seen by end users. Intel expects that over 3 years of use it would see a failure rate of approximately 5 - 15% depending on usage model. Remember this problem isn’t a functional issue but rather one of those nasty statistical issues, so by nature it should take time to show up in large numbers (at the same time there should still be some very isolated incidents of failure early on)."

Quite frankly anyone who hasn't bought the SB CPU and P67/H67 and buys one after this news is a fool, until it's been fixed and tested.

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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 9:42:24 PM

You guys have to understand it's NOT the CPU is the chipset ( motherboard) witch for SB owners will be replaced in a month or two, all you have to do is switch HDD, DVD from SATA 3.0 to SATA6.0 ports and wait for replacement of your mobo and as for " anything more than 1333 MHz is like a wall and the variations are attributable to IC's and CAS. "
LOL give me a break ..it's all about bios it always is ,running 1866 no problem
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a c 717 V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 10:36:42 PM

^Yeah, we all know it's the P67/H67 Chipset problem.

The RAM was just a side note, reread what I said. Also, no the 1333 MHz RAM vs 1600 vs 1866 vs etc behavior is unusual, and I get the CAS and RAM IC's - BUT I've never seen that behavior in the X58 or P55 or current AMD's -- that is a CPU {IMC} issue and it's odd.
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a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2011 10:44:41 PM

I'll still buy this week if I can find one. Newegg pulled em already. Im sure it will run 2 months if its expected to last 3 years, than I'll just jump on the recall wagon. I'm ready to buy now, not in 2 months, and theres no way I'll waste money on older tech.
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a b V Motherboard
February 1, 2011 12:37:18 AM

daship said:
I'll still buy this week if I can find one. Newegg pulled em already. Im sure it will run 2 months if its expected to last 3 years, than I'll just jump on the recall wagon. I'm ready to buy now, not in 2 months, and theres no way I'll waste money on older tech.


I don't think you will find a mobo as of today all of them are pulled of the shelves ,"and theres no way I'll waste money on older tech." I'm with you on that 100%
Got my P67 platform and love it (I don't use sata3.0) and to swap MB..no big deal
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a c 107 V Motherboard
February 1, 2011 12:50:58 AM

For the first time, I could afford to be a first-adopter of new technology ... and that technology turns out to be flawed. Normally, I go for mid-cycle or mid-range components but I decided I wanted a nice first-tier gaming/overclocking machine this time.

Oh well. It'll be nice to have the newest and greatest again in a couple of months. You can bet I'll be a first-adopter of the fixed chipset too.
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a b V Motherboard
February 1, 2011 1:06:19 AM

every new platform have some sort of issues ,so far 1 bad for P67 and how many for the great X58 ;) 
Today is Christmas day for all SB haters
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February 1, 2011 2:50:02 AM

I was all ready to jump on the bandwagon until I saw the horrendous reports about the flaky ASUS mobos.

I was just about to pull the trigger on an ASrock Extreme4.

Guess my Athlon 2700 will have to survive a few months longer.....
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a c 717 V Motherboard
February 1, 2011 12:38:29 PM

^What reports about ASUS? BTW - ASUS owns ASRock...
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a c 236 V Motherboard
February 1, 2011 1:31:16 PM

jaquith said:
BTW - ASUS owns ASRock...

No longer a true statement..

As of Sept 30, 2010, ASUS owns 25% roughly of PEGATRON (which I believe owns ASRock now). As of June 1, 2010, ASUS no longer has control over ASRock, so you are correct on your statement.
Quote:
(A) On June 1, 2010, the Company transferred further its OEM assets and business (the Company‟s long-term equity investment in PEGATRON) to the Company‟s another
investee, Pegatron International Investment Co., Ltd. (Pegatron Investment). The Company had discontinued consolidating the accounts of PEGATRON and its subsidiaries since it lost control over these subsidiaries.


http://www.corpasia.net/taiwan/2357/financial/29/EN/201...
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