Few problems with an AMD rig?

Hey I just built this rig. It performs flawlessly without a hitch, but it sounds like a flying saucer when playing Crysis.

Phenom x4 965 3.4ghz BE
Gigabyte ATI Radeon 5870 1GB
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H AM3
4 GB Corsair 1333mhz DDR3 Dual Channel
Corsair 750tx
Coolermaster 690 II
Asus DVD Drive
D-Link Wireless-N PCI

CPU Idle temp : 35c 35c 38c 37c
CPU Load : 45-55c Crysis Are these temps ideal for cpu longevity?

Gpu temp : Unknown (Help?)

Would anyone recommend installing more fans into the CM 690II case? Now it has : Front - 140mm, Rear - 140mm

Also, will adding another 4GB of ram improve my gaming performance? (Particularly when enabling AA in Crysis)

When playing Crysis there is a 2" black border on my 42" screen all around at any resolution. (1920x1080 native) I am running ATI Catalyst 10.3 drivers. I already changed settings to remove it from desktop.(scaling) Now I just need to remove it from Crysis.

Thanks a lot, these are kind of hard questions I know.
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  1. If it's only during Crysis its going to be your Gfx card. Open the ATI Catalyst Control Center, and go to the advanced tab. Then you can find the Overclocking tab, where you can monitor your temps and fan speed on the Gfx card. You can also manually adjust your Fan speed, but generally your Fan functions at the necessary RPM to keep the GPU cool.
  2. Should I go with a better cpu cooler and more case fans? Thanks. I like things running really cool, so I guess I should just do some research and go water cooling!
  3. I already have catalyst 10.4 woops XD
    This is a good program to help keep an eye on all your temps.Your temps are not that bad.
  5. A non stock CPU fan is always quieter than the stock one and cools better, so that may help a bit, but as others have said, monitor your GPU first and try reducing the fan speed if it is not too hot - with the lower fan speed see if it still makes lots of noise first, if it doesn't then it is likely the GPU

    You can also open the case and when playing lean in and listen to where all the noise comes from. This is probably a good idea as it may actually be one of the case fans - I have one of my case fans disconnected because its noise irritated me
  6. You crack me up darshebag. As if anyone will run a water cooling on a amd 965 :).

    Anyway your temps are fine. Certainly 55c is higher but it's well within the operating temps. But you should put as many fans as your case can hold. Remember to put the intake fan connectors to the mobo and exhaust fans to regular molex connectors. You should also get a cooler master hyper 212 plus hsf to replace the stock one.

    Also if there are any other cards in your system try to space them between the GPU. You should give it as much space as you can. And yes CPUID hWmonitor is a good program to use.

    Any other "hard" questions?
  7. Good replies. The cm hyper 212 looks like an excellent choice, but I am willing to pay a little extra if it means a quieter fan.

    My cards are spaced very well and the 5870 has tons of room to breathe, the cm690 II is a great case!

    Also, I have my exhaust fan plugged into my mobo, I guess that is incorrect? This is my first system build, please tell me more.

    I currently use speedfan for temps, it seems to get the job done. I found the gpu temp in ATi CCC. Thanks guys. It seems to hover around 45-50c at idle, I think i'll add a couple more case fans for sure.
  8. Yeah I know i'm a darshebag. lol. For some reason I couldn't remember but yes I just confirmed again I am running 10.4 lol. Anyways I just ordered a pair of these.
    Going to install one in the side facing my gpu and one in the top. My gpu temp is 45c idle, I see a lot of room for improvement there.

    I'm still wondering why I should switch to molex on my exhaust fan? Thanks.
  9. actually the 5870 is hanging around 48c now and won't go down. I think this may be a serious problem. I am hooked up to a 42" 1920x1080 vizio via HDMI though. I don't know if monitor size or res effects temp.
  10. Btw I turned the gpu fan speed to 100% and it is relatively quiet compared to the rest of the system. The stock cpu fan is pretty loud!
  11. Turn off your computer, lay it down on it's side so the CPU fan is facing upwards. Press gently but firmly directly in the middle of the CPU fan. Turn on system, verify it's quiet now.
  12. Is that a joke cmc? lol. That doesn't sound very practical. Anyways I know the loud noise is from my cpu fan.
  13. Nope Ghee's not joking, your fan sits on bearings, putting the pc on its side and pushing down on the middle gently seats it tighter to said bearings, making it work more as it should, smoother and quieter, I regularly clean my Rig out and one thing I always do is 'squish' my fans to keep em happy :)
  14. If you know it is the CPU fan then go ahead and buy the Hyper 212+ to replace it
  15. Or simply try pressing on it. It will actually work. It also costs nothing to do.
  16. cmcghee358 said:
    Or simply try pressing on it. It will actually work. It also costs nothing to do.

    costs nothing? as in Free? Gratis, no renumeration required? cost-free?
    Humbug I say to you Sir, I'd rather spend money than spend 20 seconds fixing the issue for free :P
  17. I like these fans:
    Scythe S-Flex SFF21D
    Scythe S-Flex SFF21E
    Scythe S-Flex SFF21F
    Scythe S-Flex SFF21G

    They are a little expensive, but the fluid bearings make them pretty quiet. I think the "F" is the best compromise better cooling capacity and noise.
  18. Well guys here is my pc as it sets right now.

    I ordered ocz freeze but haven't got it yet. Right now I am using a thin coat of Zalman thermal compound(the stuff with a brush on the cap) on a Coolermaster Hyper 212. I ordered 2 Coolermaster 140mm and installed one in the side blowing on my gpu and one in the front replacing the 120mm which I then added to the exhaust of my hyper 212 heatsink.

    Here are the temps, amazingly the gpu dropped from 48c idle to a sweet 43c!
    Here is the not so amazing. at 3.8ghz my cpu idles at 35c and jumps to 40c if I click anything. Max temps rarely top 50c though for cpu and 65c for gpu.
    When I get the ocz freeze I will inform on how that goes. I hope to see more consistent temps with the ocz freeze. Right now with this webpage open it is 39c. With the stock heatsink the only time it got above 35c was if I played a game or opened an intensive program!(It was @3.4ghz though) Noise is gone, that is one thing I can say I am very happy about with my hyper 212 install so far.

    Now I am confident that the temps will be fine if I install another 5870 for crossfire! Although that is a little overkill, I want 60fps average in GTAIV! In benchmark I get it but in game I only get about 40fps. Same goes for Crysis, I want 60fps average on very high.

    Of course then i'll happily install another 140mm coolermaster fan ($13 on newegg including shipping) in the bottom of the case blowing right on the gpus. Another for the top wouldn't be a bad idea either, but really, I've realized now that i'll pretty much never be happy. This is a dangerous addiction!
  19. Your 965 is clocked @ 3.8 GHz, did you have to increase it's vCore to achieve that?

    Actually what is your vCore? I know on my C3 955 BE my BIOS set the vCore to 1.4 where as the AMD website listed the stock vCore at 1.35.

    If you're clocked at 3.8 GHz @ 1.4 vCore, you might be able to step down to 1.375 vCore and might see a 1-2C drop in temps.
  20. CPUID says my voltage is 1.39. That is factory setting using a Gigabyte GPA890 AM3 333 board. Not sure if that matters as I am a noob.

    All I did to achieve a stable 3.8ghz was raise the multiplier to 19X. haha. Increased my 3D Mark Vantage about 1000 points vs 3.4ghz and it has never crashed or acted funny.

    Not to mention I have used ATI overdrive and increased my 5870 to 900mhz(850 stock) core and left it at stock 1200mhz memory clock. Any higher memory clock seems to crash without overvolt which I stay away from because I hear it will make it age faster.

    I'll lower it to 1.375 and see what happens?
  21. What I would do, is lower my vCore to 1.35 and then lower my clock to 3.4 GHz(stock) then recheck temps. Personally.
  22. I can't seem to find cpu voltage in the bios. lol. When I go to manual settings none of the defaults say 1.39 volts or even 1.4. The closest one is 1.5 and that is DRAM. CPU DLL (I think it said DLL) was 2.5v at default. Which one is it? Is it northbridge?
  23. No it's not, without seeing your BIOS screen I can't say for sure. In the section for voltage just list everything and it's current setting.
  24. Haha I found it. It was at the very bottom. I had to scroll down a few clicks. Now it is at 3.4ghz and 1.35 vcore. To confirm the change CPUID is showing 1.34v which is probably more like 1.3495v.

    Temp seems to be at 37-38c with this web page open. In another post I stated that it was at 39c @3.8ghz with the same things going on.

    I think the reason for the high temps is the Zalman Thermal Compound. I'll apply some OCZ freeze as soon as I get it in the mail.

    Really blows my mind though that the stock heatsink(with pre-applied compound!) was doing 34c with the same config I have right now. But it had less case fans and the GPU was even hotter!

    I re-installed the hyper 212 about 10 times no joke and tried the thermal grease that came with it and the Zalman with several different ways of applying both. No results. Maybe the Zalman needs to cure? It has been about 4 days since I applied. Supposedly the website says it takes a week, but still a 38c webpage open idle is stupid for stock clock and an aftermarket heatsink!
  25. Best answer
    I concur. For me, I gave up on air cooling. But don't take my experience as any sort of authority because there are a crapload of people on here that have had tremendous sucess with air cooling. And there are also ample benchmarks by many websites racking and stacking CPU coolers.

    All I can say is, I was always disappointed with air coolers and moved to the H50 water cooler. According to benchmarks it performs worse than the Hyper 212+ and costs twice as much. In fact alot of people have called me ignorant for buying it. But when I went from a 39C Idle to a 31C Idle, and more importantly I went from a 60C Load, to a 41C Load. After I saw those results I was pretty happy with my purchase.

    What are your load temps? And what stepping is your 965? If it's a C2 stepping it will be warmer than the C3 stepping (140W vs. 125W)
  26. It is the 125w. What is funny is I didn't realize that I could have bought a 140w or a 125w from Newegg. So it should be cooler than a 140w?

    I am considering an H50 cooler to because a cool room is very important to me and this pc puts off some heat. I have to leave my door open or it turns into a sauna. It is a fully contained system right? Meaning I won't have to buy fluid or anything else to install it under normal circumstances?

    Can you change the fluid on the h50 to add color?

    In order to get accurate load temps I just ran the full suite of 3d mark vantage on preset high. Scored a 12.5k gpu and 11.5k cpu @3.4ghz

    CPU 38c idle - 48c max (was 52c)
    GPU 43c idle - 59c max (was 65c I think)

    CPU max is down a full 4 degrees from 3.8ghz and 1.4vcore.
    GPU is down a bit also, I think it was at 65c when cpu was 52c.
  27. No point in trying open the sealed system on the H50,
    One: its Sealed so you dont have to mess about with it or have to worry about leaks too much,
    Two: Theres a picture in this link,

    look carefully at the tubes, What colour are they? :P
    Even if you do hack into your new tubing to add colour, you wont see it and will be risking leaks from your joint that youll have to put in to reseal the tube,
    People buy H50's for the maintainance/risk free aspect, If you want coloured water your going to have to build your own W/c set up I'm afraid.
    But it will help your temps a bit,
  28. 1st of all, if you have a 212+ I would suggest sticking with it. I dont believe your current problem warrants spending another 80 bucks.

    I can sing the praises of the H50 all day long, but the fact remains you have a well benched air cooler with excellent performance. Before buying another lets exhaust all avenues to rectify the situation
  29. Well I am moving to an area where I won't be able to ride my atv. I'll be selling it for about $3000. Then I'm selling my craptop, or p7805 gateway fx laptop.... for $1000 haha. Basically i'm selling toys and getting toy money. If getting an H50 means I can run my pc with my door closed, i'll buy one. Better yet, I may consider water cooling my entire pc.

    Nonetheless, if using ocz freeze gets my temps to 32-34c open webpage idle and equal or less than 48c load @3.8ghz i'll stick with the Hyper 212. So far it either looks like it is not up to par with my standards or Zalman is just terrible thermal paste. lol.
  30. btw thanks for pointing that out moto. But gee water cooling the whole rig with green water and some shiny leds would look awesome. I used to be into hobby class r/c cars and that junk, they can't even compare to the sheer satisfaction out of building your own masterpiece gaming rig. XDDDDD
  31. Well if you have excess money incoming, yeah feel free to get an H50. When you do make sure you install a 2nd fan in a push pull set up. It drops the temps 2-3C from just having 1 fan.

    As you've already stated, wait until you get the better TIM and allow it to cure before you write off the 212+ as junk. Also whats your ambient temps where the computer is?
  32. Also definately don't "hack" your H50. One of it's biggest perks is that it delivers the thermal disipation of water, but requiring 0 maintenance. Unlike the more complex water cooling set ups that require daily and monthly maintenance. Also the H50 has a lower chance to leak than a standard water cooling setup
  33. What is sad is that I have my Hyper 212 in a push pull setup and don't even get idle performance of the stock cooling fan with a single tiny 80ish mm fan.It does, however, get better performance at max load than stock cooling, which would be enough for most users. XD

    Yeah I definitely won't hack the H50! If I really want a cool looking rig I know I would be better off parting a kit together myself to add colors etc.

    Ambient temps are probably lower than what they were when I had my stock cooling. I actually have been turning my ac down to about 73F to make sure I am getting good intake. It doesn't make a difference, it still idles at 38C.
  34. I've got a hyper 212. I'm running a Phenom II x3 720 at stock atm, but it has idle temps of like 18 C. Ambient is 26.5 C atm. Goes as high as 28 C with Prime 95.

    Mind you, it's in a cooler master HAF 922 case, but still.

    Oh and I'm using Arctic Silver 5.
  35. That is incredible. I thought it was impossible to go lower than ambient temps with air cooling. Guess anything is possible then.

    I'm using Zalman thermal paste in a Cooler Master 690 II basic case with a 140mm intake, 140mm intake on side door, 120mm exhaust, and 2 120mm fans in push/pull configuration on my Hyper 212.

    My temps at variable fan speeds are 38c idle - 52c load @3.8ghz
    Max fan speeds do very little because they are only 1000-2000 rpm fans. It is a very quiet system.

    If my temps don't get lower when I switch to ocz freeze (said to be equivalent to Arctic S5) I will then add 2 more 140mm fans for the top of the case. 1 for intake, and 1 for exhaust. Hoping to achieve 32c idle or lower @3.8ghz.

    If temps are still not where I want them, I will buy an H50 or may consider doing more research and building my own water cooling system from high quality components and 1/2 inch tubing.
  36. It seems to me that you have way more intake than exhaust. The HAF 922 has one 200 mm intake, at the hard drives. one 200 mm exhaust on the top. And one 120 as the rear exhaust. There's the option of another 200~ish one on the side panel, but I'm ignoring that fact for the moment as I've already got good results.

    I don't even have 2 fans on the 212, just the one it comes with. I'd suggest trying to move your side fan to the top first thing, and generally making it more like the HAF's airflow. So that means if you do 2 on the top they both need to be exhaust.
  37. It is impossible to go lower than ambient temps on air. False dmitry is in error on his numbers.
  38. Really? Cause it's been doing lower than what the temp is in my room, I suppose I made an assumption that that would be ambient. It's been like that for the entire couple of months that I've had it.

    The thing blows cool air, man.
  39. Well the basics of heat transfer, especially with air is, eventually the temperature between the hotter unit will equalize with the ambient air to match the same temp. I'd like to point out that this instance is exceptionally rare and usually involves a high speed ram air intake.

    Unless your HSF has some sort of coolant that is colder than the ambient temperature there is no way it can be cooler than the ambient air.

    Just think about how it works. Your CPU cooler takes ambient air 25C and draws it across it's fins that are dissipating heat from the CPU 65C. Because of the thermal differential that heat will dissipate to the ambient air, and more importantly will actually raise the ambient air flowing across the fins, because some of the heat is dissipating into that air and raising it's temperature.

    Some of the best air coolers are going to be 2-4C above ambient. Without some sort of high speed ram air intake that is drawing air faster than the current ambient molecules in the heat exchanger can increase in temp, you'll never even match ambient temps.
  40. Let's see if I can explain it a little better. Let's say you made some bacon in a pan and you're all done cooking. So you take the hot hot pan to the sink and you start running some cold water. Now lets say the pan is 300F and the water is 65F. Now that water is flowing over the pan and cooling it off. Much like air is flowing through a HSF. Now the pan is rapidly cooled. But what does the water do? Well initially it steams. Because the heat of the pan has transfered to the water molecules and exceeded the boiling point, thereby coverting it to steam. Now the longer you run the water, what happens? Well the pan cools. Does the pan get colder than the water? No, it will equalize the temperature with the water.

    Now if the fan had a constant source of heat, like your CPU, continually generating that heat. Well in effect the water would perpetually steam, the pan would still cool down but it would equalize, never truly getting as cold as the water. Maybe it would equalize to something like 150F.

    Now the way HSFs work is they have more fins, allowing more air to draw across all the fins and disipating that heat more efficiently. Also imagine if you had your perpetually heated pan in the sink and doubled the 23F waterflow across it? Well it would be able to disipate more heat. This is also how HSFs work. They increase the fan size or even add a 2nd fan in a push pull configuration, which increases the amount of air being drawn across.

    I hope this analogy makes sense, I'm not trying to talk down or anything, just trying to clearly explain how a CPU can never be cooler than the ambient air, on an aircooled system.

    Also on a sidenote the reason why water cooling is so much cooler, is because water disipates/absorbs heat 10x better than air.

    So in effect even with water cooling your CPU can never actually be colder than the water temp. This water temp usually is just above ambient temp, because once again the radiator is another heat exchanger.

    Also this is why for the super overclockers, they use liquid nitrogen as their cooling medium, which has a boiling point of -297F. So what they are doing is lowering the equivalent of the ambient temp to -297F to generate a lower equalized temperature of the CPU.
  41. Also, I know I'm beating a dead horse here. Alot of people mention that the air blowing from their computers exhaust fan is colder than the room they are in. That simply isn't the case but it is interesting to note that it's effect is called Wind Chill, which is the biological equivalent of a a HSF. Taken from wikipedia on Wind Chill:

    "The human body loses heat largely by evaporation and convection.[1][2] The rate of heat loss by a surface depends on the wind speed above that surface: the faster the wind speed, the more readily the surface cools. For inanimate objects, the effect of wind chill is to reduce any warmer objects to the ambient temperature more quickly. It cannot, however, reduce the temperature of these objects below the ambient temperature, no matter how great the wind velocity."

    This says two things, you are only perceiving the air is colder than ambient because the air is drawing across your skin and disipating heat, making it feel colder. 2nd of all it reinforces what I said earlier about how a CPU temp can never be lower than the ambient temperature.
  42. That's nice and all. But I'm just reporting data. There is no error. Fact: multiple temp monitoring programs say that that's what teh CPU temp is. Fact: that's what the clock with integrated thermometer says the room is at.

    I do have the clock on a bookshelf and the case is more or less on the ground, maybe that has something to do with it. It most certainly is not that off. It just doesn't feel that cool in the room.

    I am not lying nor am I reading it wrong.

    Edit: That wind chill stuff was new. The rest of it was all old info to me. Your first post just came off like you were calling me a liar and was a challenge, thus my response.
  43. What I'm telling you is, it is impossible for your CPU to be cooler than the ambient air, on air cooling. I really don't care what your set up is or what your probes say. Because logic, the thermal dynamics state what you are posting isn't true.

    Any argument you have to the contrary, is moot because it is breaking the laws of physics. I have no variables in my information. You on the other hand have alot of variables. Probes, some thermometer clock (?). Fact is I simply don't care.

    But don't bring outrageous numbers in here like 10C under ambient and present it to someone as a benchmark to achieve.

    If your CPU is really at 18C, that equates to 64F, considering that the CPU can never match ambient, you can assumed 1-2C difference, putting your ambient air temp at around 16C. 16C is 61F, does your room feel like 61F?
  44. Can't we all just get along? haha. CMC is correct though. It is what I originally thought, but I changed my mind thinking that maybe the accumulation of air molecules on a target point with a fan can decrease the air temperature because of the magical powers of a copper heatsink?

    Haha. How gullible I am.

    There is sure to be a logical explanation for this? I know it is not possible for the cpu to be lower than ambient now. Excellent explanation of the windchill effect.

    I second cmc. Here is my logic on this topic.
    The cpu is heated, it then dissipates heat to the heat sink. Air blows through the heatsink, which then makes the temperature of the air and heatsink meet somewhere in the middle. The air exiting the back of the case is always slightly hotter than the air intake, although sometimes it feels colder because of the windchill effect.(mine is warm right now haha) Therefore, the cpu never gets to a lower temperature than ambient on air.

    False Dimitry, are you wearing a sweater by any chance? haha
  45. Sure, like there's hotter air up towards where the thermometer is vs. the ground where the intake of the fan is. My room itself is too insulated or something it generally stays around 76-80F.

    All that means is that in my case the CPU is most likely simply very near ambient and I really don't feel like doing extensive testing to figure out what it's doing. The whole point of me posting my temps is the mere fact that nearly 40 C seems way out of line for that heatsink. (keeping in mind that he does have another core, and it is overclocked though)

    And yeah, one of my alarm clocks has a thermometer in it. Probably not the most accurate thing in the world.

    I wish it felt like 61F. And egads sweaters, you'd be lucky to find me ever wearing pants instead of shorts, even when it's freezing outside. (and I mean literal freezing)

    And note, I said that output was cool, not cold. Usually most cases end up feeling like they're putting out at least room temp air if not warm or hot.
  46. Frankly I'm not too concerned about the termodynamics of your room. As long as we all understand that it's physically impossible for the CPU to be cooler than the ambient air.

    And yes 40C is a bit high. Which is what we're trying to figure out now. When darshebag puts the new and better TIM on we can look at his numbers again, right now we're in a holding pattern until new data is presented.
  47. We pretty much all understood that before, so that was a total offshoot.

    I still bet that if he made the airflow in the case more like the HAF's that would probably help too.
  48. Well just for shlitz and giggles I put my 140mm side door fan on the top as an exhaust fan.

    Unfortunately that was the fan blowing directly on my 5870 from the side, so temps shot up to 46c for gpu. Temps on cpu remain the same or higher at 39c+!

    I think what will really do some good is a Delta 120mm with 210 cfm... lol The cost? 60db @6000rpm! Just kidding I like it quiet they are out of the question. It would be fun to get one and see how much temps drop though. But $30 a fan is too much to just play with...

    H50 sounds better every day.

    Where in the hell is my OCZ Freeze! It was out of stock at newegg so I ordered from Ebay and payed the price of eternity. lol

    I am pretty bored. I think i'll take my 5870 out and see how the on-board radeon 4290 compares lololol. GTA IV benchmark here I come.
  49. Well my boredom has payed off.

    4290 benchmarked GTAIV on medium quality at a wopping 4.86 frames per second.

    CPU temp has dropped 4c as expected. 36c is very easy to get with no graphics card. lol. Too bad this is a gaming rig.

    You heard it. Even with no 5870 i'm getting 36c. What the $*%(! LOL
    Zalman is apparently just way too thin for this heatsink.
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