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AMD's "Bulldozer" processors, AM3 compatible?

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July 28, 2010 7:31:59 AM

With AMD's 4-8 core, new micro-architecture "Bulldozer" chips coming out late 2010 or very early 2011, did I make a mistake by buying a Core i7 930 and X58 motherboard? Should I have gotten an AM3 socket motherboard like the ASUS Crosshair IV Formula (890FX) and bought the Bulldozers when they come out?

I am not 100% certain if the Bulldozers will be compatible with AM3 socket motherboards, or if it will use something like AM3+ or AM4. If it can use AM3 sockets with a BIOS update, I would have gotten AMD instead of Intel. Do you think the Bulldozers will outperform the Core i7? The 6-core Phenom II X6 1090T overtakes the Core i7 in some benchmarks.

The 2nd generation DX11 ATI Radeon HD 6xxx GPU family are also set for release circa Christmas 2010.

It's still unlikely that the Bulldozers will outperform Intel's 8-core Sandy Bridge. AMD hasn't had a chip faster than Intel's since the days of the Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4.

The Bulldozers will probably be between $300-400 as opposed to probably $1,400+ like the flagship Intel Sandy Bridge model.
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July 28, 2010 2:22:58 PM

the 930 is a good chip, though some would say its better to go amd for the moment because there is no chance intel will have a $200 -$300 hexacore anytime, if ever,

but then again, there is no way of knowing if the bulldozer socket AM3r2 will be compatible with am3, because if i were amd andi wanted people to choose my high end stuff now, yet had already decided that bulldozer will be LGA, then i would decide that its a good idea to name a socket AM3r2 instead of AM3+ : )
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July 28, 2010 4:33:26 PM

ambam said:
With AMD's 4-8 core, new micro-architecture "Bulldozer" chips coming out late 2010 or very early 2011, did I make a mistake by buying a Core i7 930 and X58 motherboard? Should I have gotten an AM3 socket motherboard like the ASUS Crosshair IV Formula (890FX) and bought the Bulldozers when they come out?

I am not 100% certain if the Bulldozers will be compatible with AM3 socket motherboards, or if it will use something like AM3+ or AM4. If it can use AM3 sockets with a BIOS update, I would have gotten AMD instead of Intel. Do you think the Bulldozers will outperform the Core i7? The 6-core Phenom II X6 1090T overtakes the Core i7 in some benchmarks.

The 2nd generation DX11 ATI Radeon HD 6xxx GPU family are also set for release circa Christmas 2010.

It's still unlikely that the Bulldozers will outperform Intel's 8-core Sandy Bridge. AMD hasn't had a chip faster than Intel's since the days of the Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4.

The Bulldozers will probably be between $300-400 as opposed to probably $1,400+ like the flagship Intel Sandy Bridge model.


Well you have to admit that 12AMDcores x 4ghz=48GHz and 8Intelcores x4ghz=32ghz Its hard to believe that with 4 extra cores they wouldn't be faster but if they have for instance 10 cores and 2 fusion GPU cores that would be really really awesome! Imagine that set up 2cores for each GPU and having one on the mainboard that would give you 3 cores of sli and add another board dual gpu and you have 5 cores for gaming and triple surround gaming from matrox or ATI Eyeinfinity with 6 monitors!!
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July 28, 2010 7:04:08 PM

GunBladeType-T said:
Well you have to admit that 12AMDcores x 4ghz=48GHz and 8Intelcores x4ghz=32ghz Its hard to believe that with 4 extra cores they wouldn't be faster but if they have for instance 10 cores and 2 fusion GPU cores that would be really really awesome! Imagine that set up 2cores for each GPU and having one on the mainboard that would give you 3 cores of sli and add another board dual gpu and you have 5 cores for gaming and triple surround gaming from matrox or ATI Eyeinfinity with 6 monitors!!


There is no 12 core Bulldozer coming except for the Opteron variations, and your smoking something if you think they'll be at 4.0Ghz. :lol: 

Bulldozer also isn't fusion until 2012 or later, the fusion parts are X2/X4 processors based on current Phenom technology.
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July 28, 2010 7:13:29 PM

Quote:
What? 12 AMD cores at 4ghz?? What are you smoking dude? You don't multiply cores by clock speed. LOL 4 extra cores? What are you talking about?? :hello: 

By the way that must be the longest run on sentence in the history of Tom's Hardware.


12cores running at 4ghz each with a liquid cooling kit dude? Intel has had a pentium IV running at 10ghz with liquid nitrogen in 2005 man! If your that rich and buy a 12core athlon magma chip you might as well liquid nitrogen the thing and get your money's worth!
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July 28, 2010 7:15:11 PM

loneninja said:
There is no 12 core Bulldozer coming except for the Opteron variations, and your smoking something if you think they'll be at 4.0Ghz. :lol: 

Bulldozer also isn't fusion until 2012 or later, the fusion parts are X2/X4 processors based on current Phenom technology.



you a young whipper snapper? Intel has had a 10GHZ Pentium IV with liquid nitrogen in 2005! With Liquid nitrogen you can overclock that baby probably around another 1GHz. Anyways look on the forum someone was looking for Liquid nitrogen go and ask him about overclocking?
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July 28, 2010 10:16:33 PM

GunBladeType-T said:
you a young whipper snapper? Intel has had a 10GHZ Pentium IV with liquid nitrogen in 2005! With Liquid nitrogen you can overclock that baby probably around another 1GHz. Anyways look on the forum someone was looking for Liquid nitrogen go and ask him about overclocking?


Are you suggesting attempting to overclock a workstation/server set up using liquid nitrogen? Phenom II has been near 7.0Ghz stable that way, but there is no way your running a system 24/7 like that.
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July 28, 2010 10:59:36 PM

GunBladeType-T said:
you a young whipper snapper? Intel has had a 10GHZ Pentium IV with liquid nitrogen in 2005! With Liquid nitrogen you can overclock that baby probably around another 1GHz. Anyways look on the forum someone was looking for Liquid nitrogen go and ask him about overclocking?


........................................................................................ :pfff:  :pfff:  ........................................................... WTF are you talking about?

You must be THE young one, I'll bet on that. If not, well lets just say you are a bit over confident in yourself!

Lets just say that you are a bit delusional. :non: 

Your assumption of 4 Ghz is a bit radical with conventional cooling. YES! I read your half ass argument of extreme cooling. Do you think extreme cooling will come standard. AS PREVIOUSLY STATED!!!! Fusion is still a WAYS away! 12 cores???? HUH! WHAT!!

WAIT I KNOW!


Do you think you are from the future?

Wow!
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July 28, 2010 11:03:45 PM

By the way your math skills suck!!!!
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July 28, 2010 11:29:39 PM

@ xtc28 : you WIN
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July 29, 2010 12:31:21 AM

ambam said:
With AMD's 4-8 core, new micro-architecture "Bulldozer" chips coming out late 2010 or very early 2011, did I make a mistake by buying a Core i7 930 and X58 motherboard?

Not our call

Should I have gotten an AM3 socket motherboard like the ASUS Crosshair IV Formula (890FX) and bought the Bulldozers when they come out?

See above

I am not 100% certain if the Bulldozers will be compatible with AM3 socket motherboards, or if it will use something like AM3+ or AM4. If it can use AM3 sockets with a BIOS update, I would have gotten AMD instead of Intel.

BD Zambezi will be pin-compatible with AM3 per AMD


Do you think the Bulldozers will outperform the Core i7? The 6-core Phenom II X6 1090T overtakes the Core i7 in some benchmarks.

Magic 8-ball sez, "Better not tell you now"


The 2nd generation DX11 ATI Radeon HD 6xxx GPU family are also set for release circa Christmas 2010.

"Southern Islands" will arrive late Sept / early Oct with rumors persisting the uncore parts built from "Northern Islands" (prior to the shrink to 28nm and release in 2011). AMD is not talking but this fits with their 'roll'


It's still unlikely that the Bulldozers will outperform Intel's 8-core Sandy Bridge.

Sandy Bridge 'E' will not arrive until Q3-11 and most likely be 6 core. Sandy Bridge DT processors will target the entry level and mainstream market so a comparison with BD Zambezi (especially now) is impossible (and rumors persist that 'DT' procs and -1155 mobos will 'squash' OC'ing). Intel ain't talking but rumors persist that there will be a 4-core 'consumer' Sandy Bridge 'E' version and maybe a possible 8-core, so if you have anything to back that up we would love to see it.


AMD hasn't had a chip faster than Intel's since the days of the Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4.

The Bulldozers will probably be between $300-400 as opposed to probably $1,400+ like the flagship Intel Sandy Bridge model.

I just gotta LOL at this one. We don't want to know how you 'derived' this info. :D 



Hope this helps ...
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July 29, 2010 12:40:22 AM

Wisecracker said:
Hope this helps ...


So my Core i7 should be a very good chip which won't become obsolete for years.

I am going to use my computer almost entirely for gaming. I doubt the Intel Sandy Bridge will put out any significant gaming performance over the Core i7.

Will the next-gen DX11 ATI cards be an entirely new micro-architecture than the HD 5xxx series? Or just a highly revised and improved version of the current architecture?
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July 29, 2010 12:58:17 AM

What is the goal stock speed for the bulldozer? Or atleast what do you guys think would be a proper stock speed?
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July 29, 2010 2:01:26 AM

Computerrock1 said:
What is the goal stock speed for the bulldozer? Or atleast what do you guys think would be a proper stock speed?


8-cores at beyond 3.0 GHz will produce a lot of heat, very fast. I'm guessing 2.4-2.6 GHz.
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July 29, 2010 2:06:25 AM

ambam said:
8-cores at beyond 3.0 GHz will produce a lot of heat, very fast. I'm guessing 2.4-2.6 GHz.





if they can do 6 cores @ 2.8GHZ @ 95watts with 45nm, why cant they do 8 cores @ 3.0ghz with 32nm?
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July 29, 2010 4:05:29 AM

You fail.

GunBladeType-T said:
12AMDcores x 4ghz=48GHz and 8Intelcores x4ghz=32ghz

"That's not how it works" fail

GunBladeType-T said:
but if they have for instance 10 cores and 2 fusion GPU cores that would be really really awesome!

"logical reasoning" and "keeping up with AMD current PR" fail


GunBladeType-T said:
Imagine that set up 2cores for each GPU and having one on the mainboard that would give you 3 cores of sli and add another board dual gpu and you have 5 cores for gaming and triple surround gaming from matrox or ATI Eyeinfinity with 6 monitors!!

"implementation" and "brand naming" fail
ATI uses crossfire
crossfire can only use 4 GPU cores
mixing low performing GPUs and high performing GPUs is usually much worse than using just the high performance GPU


GunBladeType-T said:
Intel has had a 10GHZ Pentium IV with liquid nitrogen in 2005! With Liquid nitrogen you can overclock that baby probably around another 1GHz. Anyways look on the forum someone was looking for Liquid nitrogen go and ask him about overclocking?

"purpose of high performance overclocking" fail
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July 29, 2010 2:41:01 PM

enzo, your wrong...

a friend of mine has a quad 5970 rig. do the math doofus! 2x4=8!!!
each 5970 has 2 cores, which you know!
FAIL!
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July 29, 2010 3:14:01 PM

p4nz3rm4d said:
enzo, your wrong...

a friend of mine has a quad 5970 rig. do the math doofus! 2x4=8!!!
each 5970 has 2 cores, which you know!
FAIL!

You desperately need to do some research on "Crossfire scaling"
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July 29, 2010 3:20:24 PM

uhm, ur friend has 4x5970= 8 gpus

go to his house and do an experiment, benchmark the pcs graphics, take out 2 of the 5970s then benchmark again, ull **** a brick factory!!!
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July 29, 2010 4:07:16 PM

You guys do remember the 'troll' from a few years ago who specialized in that fancy Jethro Bodine-like cipherin' with cores and clock speed?



Looks like he's back :ouch: 
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July 29, 2010 5:15:09 PM

Bulldozer will be utilizing a Quad-channel memory interface. With that being said buying an AM3 motherboard may or may not be compatible with Bulldozer... but the question is... would you want to use a motherboard that only supplies half the potential performance of Bulldozer in terms of memory access requests?

I think that today's AM3 motherboards, even if compatible, defeat the purpose of purchasing a Bulldozer. I also have yet to see anyone resit the temptation of buying a new motherboard with a new CPU of a different architecture.

Most folks who had compatible i945 board (for Core 2 Duo's) saw themselves upgrading to a new i965/i975 motherboard.

Also.. even if Bulldozer is pin compatible.. it doesn't mean that it will work in today's AM3 boards. Voltage regulation as well as BIOS firmware updates play a role. It will also depend on the memory controller aboard Bulldozer.

Too many questions therefore no answers can be given with certainty.
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July 29, 2010 11:39:45 PM

ElMoIsEviL said:
Bulldozer will be utilizing a Quad-channel memory interface.

G34 Enterprise, not BD Zambezi, uses quad-channel DDR3 memory. A consumer board with 8 DIMM slots is almost laughable on its face. However, Zambezi will natively support DDR3-1866 (which, btw, the woods are full of AM3 boards so qualified).

A Zambezi module will consist of 2 integer cores. Each integer core will have quad instruction pipelines ...



A quad core Zambezi will consist of two modules. An eight-core Zambezi will consist of four modules. Each grouping will share the L3 Cache and 'north bridge'.

Additionally, since AM2+, the arch has supported split power planes in all reference designs.

With that being said buying an AM3 motherboard may or may not be compatible with Bulldozer... but the question is... would you want to use a motherboard that only supplies half the potential performance of Bulldozer in terms of memory access requests?

There is so much wrong with this it is hard to know where to begin. First, it is based upon your 'strawman' argument of quad-channel memory. What does "half the potential" and "memory access requests" mean? For each 10% increase in the NB/IMC speed, memory bandwidth increases 3-4% and reduces latency 3-4% in the current arch. There is no reason to expect Zambezi will be any different. Since 'enthusiasts' are now clocking the NB/IMC over 50% why would AMD bother with a 5% increase in bandwidth and latency with triple channel memory, much less another 5% with quad channel, when they may simply boost the speed of the NB/IMC (or 'uncore' as the Intel fanboys call it)?

I think that today's AM3 motherboards, even if compatible, defeat the purpose of purchasing a Bulldozer.

We all know what opinions are like. Your opinion happens to be wrong.

I also have yet to see anyone resit the temptation of buying a new motherboard with a new CPU of a different architecture.

Most folks who had compatible i945 board (for Core 2 Duo's) saw themselves upgrading to a new i965/i975 motherboard.


We all know what opinions are like (Is there an echo in here?). When you purchase a new motherboard you must also purchase a new OEM copy of your OS, unless, of course, you violate the terms of your EULA and 'pirate' the software.

There is no reason to even discuss this given the support and backward compatibility AMD has offered over the last few years. Feel ripped off yet when someone updates their BIOS, 'pops' a hex-core 1055T in a three year-old motherboard and reuses their DDR2? (And NO, I am not implying Zambezi will include a DDR2 controller)

Also.. even if Bulldozer is pin compatible.. it doesn't mean that it will work in today's AM3 boards. Voltage regulation as well as BIOS firmware updates play a role. It will also depend on the memory controller aboard Bulldozer.

You might have missed this: Since AM2+, the mobo arch has supported split power planes in all reference designs which allow the dynamic manipulation of core voltages and PLL, dedicated temperature sensor circuits for each core, gating, and the memory controller, including separate sleep states, voltages and frequencies for the northbridge. HT links, too.

Too many questions therefore no answers can be given with certainty.

AMD (unlike Intel with s775) has never released same-socket incompatibilities (though s754-s939 was not their finest hour), and though there are no guarantee that OEMs will update motherboard BIOSs - if the past is any predictor - AMD partners have been great with updates on 'enthusiast' boards, so ... what it looks like you are saying is, ""Since I own an Intel processor looks like I'll have to buy another new motherboard when the next gen Sandy Bridge 'E' comes out while AM3 motherboard owners will be smiling all the way to the bank""

That does not mean that AMD and their partners will not tempt new builders with 'enhanced' AM3+, but other than PCIe Gen3 and maybe a few goodies from the enterprise side (like HyperTransport 3.1 and the 'HT Assist' probe filter, not quad channel RAMs), there are unlikely to be any significant performance-based enhancements (other than the BD modules themselves). An update to the south bridge?

for USB3 headers? - LOL



From the home office in Sunnyvale ...





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