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Mod/smart sata 3

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July 30, 2010 12:38:03 AM

I like the looks of these cables but wonder if they are 6G/bs rated! If they are not then what is the difference between Sata 2 and Sata 3 cables. I have on order 2 Crucial SSD 256Gb drives and want the correct cables for 6G/bs that these SSD drives are rated at.

More about : mod smart sata

a b ) Power supply
July 30, 2010 5:53:12 AM

There is no performance difference between SATA II and SATA III cables as apparently using a SATA III Crucial RealSSD C300, performs the same with both cables and it has a max of 355 MB/s which means that both cables can transfer more than 300 MB/s.
July 30, 2010 4:29:10 PM

Thank you for the reply but I have just finished talking to Adam at Crucial UK Tech Support and he said yes a 6Gb/s cable is recommended for the Crucial C300 SSD if connecting to a Sata 6Gb/s Interface which I am. I have now researched the cables and found ASAKA, Okgear, Rosewill, Nippon Labs, and Link Depot as manufacturers of Sata 6Gb/s cables. They are not that much more expensive than Sata 2 Cables I buy since I purchase UV Sata Cables of various lengths to fit exactly the drive to the MB connectors.

I am now quoting a member of Crucial Forum who says, "My Asus P6X58D Premium motherboard came with four SATA2 cables and two SATA3 cables."

I find it interesting that ASUS ships both cables which really takes out the guess work and suggestion that it is purely marketing as if it is as been suggested why would both Crucial tell me to use a Sata 6Gb/s cable and why would ASUS ship a more expensive cable if they did not need to with their motherboards.

What I have notice many members of many forums are split both ways on this issue which is why I put the question to Tom's Hardware! After spending many hours researching this and having paid the price for a Sata 6Gb/s Interface and the expensive but extremely fast Crucial C300 SSD I will take Adams advice and purchase AKASA 50cm 6Gb/s.

What I find shocking is that I purchased a SATA 3 cable from Aquatuning.co.uk the following cable

http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p9348...

It took 8 days to arrive using UPS as a delivery agent (not UPS fault as Aquatuning took their time in packing a simple order of a few Sata cables) and then finding out some companies are selling SATA 3 cables that are not rated at 6Gb/s. 3 Emails in 7 days and 3 phone calls which only went to voice mail, requesting clarification from Aquatuning if their SATA 3 was 6Gb/s rated and the only answer I received was, "Yes I believe this is the correct cable." which does not instill confidence. I received that response just after sending my first email. Requesting further clarification and a full week (7 days) I still do not have a satisfactory answer is not good business. I take the silence as confirmation that their SATA 3 is not 6Gb/s rated which begs the question what is the difference between Aquatuning Sata 2 and Sata 3 cable! I have now paid exactly £1.14 difference for the Akasa lol now I have another Sata 2 cable dressed up as Sata 3:) !

I welcome comments to my posting as this standard seems to have opposite points of view from knowledgeable people! I have been building computers since 1987 and never been this puzzled over any specification in all of that time.
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a b ) Power supply
July 30, 2010 4:39:25 PM

The SATA connector pin-out is identical for all three generations and the cable is merely a wire that transfers signals, unless they discovered some new element/compound to make SATA cables out of, I don't see how SATA3 cables can be faster than SATA2 ones.
July 30, 2010 7:55:55 PM

Tmop Thank you for your reply and I will try and answer you why I have come to the conclusion I have after posting and doing a few hours research in forums and asking questions, also by 25 years of KVM experience and longer working with computers. I also understand that the pin outs are identical as Sata 6Gb/s is backwards compatible with Sata 2. I also understand that Sata 1 was for 150MB/sec and Sata 2 was for 3 Gbit/s using the same pin outs. Following that logic then Sata 3 6Gb/s is for twice Sata 2 speed using the same pin outs as Sata 1 and 2!

I started in KVM when Cybex created KVM and believe me there were many people who said that wire was just wire and that Cybex wire was over priced when companies started creating a cheaper completive switch and wire to do the same job. I said in those days if that was the case why use KVM and not use VNC which is software. I knew the answer. There are somethings that cost more for a reason. I replaced many competitors equipment in recording studios, TV Stations along with many other Corporate sites. This all came down to cabling, the quality of the wire and shielding! Cybex cable was heavier screened which when running with other cables made a difference, also it cost 2 - 3 times more. I am using the same logic I learned with KVM here with SATA 6G cables vs Sata 2. Sata 6G is heavier duty data wire as I understand it as well has heavier screening. From what research I have done it seems to me that a heavier cable is logical for the faster SSD data transfer and again I may wrong but please consider this, why would ASUS bother to waste money supplying two types of SATA Cables 1) Sata II for the Sata II ports and 2) Sata III 6Gb/s for their 6 Gb/s ports. Why would they waste the money considering how few Asus owners would spent the money on the more expensive Crucial C300 SSD drives considering how many competitors to Crucial SSD drives that are not as fast in their specs. Crucial does not sell cables ergo they have no bones to pick with which cable I use. Crucial recommended to me to use 6G cable, Why?

I feel like the soul of the computer industry has been ripped out when mysteries such as this have entered the computer world with little information to prove one way or the other! Everything used to be based on logic and performance and now marketing has entered to muddle the arena.

I am not an engineer but I have seen so many people considered to be more knowledgeable than myself, in many forums, disagree on this subject which is the why I have tossed this in Toms Hardware to get an open discussion on this subject.

Once again Timop and Lmeow thank you for your comments. Does anyone else have something to add???? I am just trying to get to the bottom of this. For an extra £1.14 between Sata 2 price and Sata 3 is meaningless when having spent the money I have for the Crucial C300 SSD and trust me no where near the price difference of Cybex (now Avocent) and their competitor!
a b ) Power supply
July 30, 2010 10:28:56 PM

^ You can say that again.

Inel Core i7 970s are faster than 975s in multithreaded applications, and some single threaded applications.
nVidia GeForce GTX 460s are faster than GTX 465s... produce less heat and use less power too...
ATi Mobility Radeon HD 5165s are faster than Mobility Radeon HD 5470s...

Might as well grab the SATA III cable.
July 31, 2010 10:48:48 AM

Lmeow thanks again for your comment but I think it is safe to say that there is no such thing as Sata 3! Sata 3 is the cable Aquatuning.co.uk has sold me. I assumed at the time of ordering which was stupid of me that their Sata 3 was a 6Gb/s cable not just a fancy cable which was not 6Gb/s rated. So to recap what I poorly said is I am purchasing not as u suggest a Sata 3, as I already have two of those from aquatuning but indeed a SATA 6Gb/s rated cable. All due respect it is slang to call Sata 6G/bs SATA 3 or at least I have read that idea on another forum which of course is only adding to the confusion. If Sata 6Gb/s is one standard and as aquatuning is suggesting that Sata 3 cables are another standard then it begs the question as to what is the difference between Sata 2 which is rated 3 Gb/s and aquatuning new Sata 3 cable.

I have indeed placed an order for the Sata 6G cables but was hoping for more debate! What I was hoping for was more information to the why there is no more information about this new cable and the why people in so many forums seem divided the difference between the two cables. I was also hoping to see someone with some test results proving one way or the other if this cable is actually needed. I am buying a couple and will do some tests when my system is finished. I will post them when I have.

Has anyone tried both cables to see what the results are???

Is anyone curious to why we have no information about this. Seems as if everyone accepts the difference between Sata 1 and Sata 2 I don't understand why the division over Sata 2 and Sata 6Gb/s!

Anyone?!?!?
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
July 31, 2010 2:20:23 PM

Stick with IDE its quicker than all of them :) 
August 14, 2010 3:09:34 AM

No worries here. Till it's sorted out I'll jes use my sata 6Gb/s cables that came wit' mah Asus and hook it to My new Antec DF-85's Fleet Swap sata connector and then my crucial... will... er...
Wait a minute,?!
Oh great! Now I won't be able to sleep until I benchmark my Case's sata Hot swap connector.
Anyone have a clue?
August 15, 2010 11:38:25 PM

:bounce:  I have been researching this myself. The most reliable and accurate information must come from the engineers who developed the Serial ATA 3 Standard, right? You can find them here at www.sata-io.org. There are several pdf. documents that explain the differences between ATA 1, 2, and 3 cabling. Although ATA 2 connectors and number of conductors/contacts remain the same for backward compatibility the diameter of conductors, type of insulation and shielding differ. Remember the adage a 1/2" pipe cannot flow as much water as a 3/4" inch pipe?

Perhaps current peripherals/devices are not able to achieve 6Gbs throughput now. So people say to use the older SATA 2 cable. Yes, it will work now but device development will continue to improve and more vendors will adapt the SATA 3 standard and become SATA certified vendors. You might also consider that the theoretical bandwidth of 6Gbs or even 3Gbs you will never realize due to device communications ie. handshaking and protocol bandwidth requirements. All connected devices need instruction, identification, routing, commands, etc. All this takes up bandwidth too. I expect engineers will eventually come to realize asynchronous carrier communication or separate communication channels for these communications will improve raw data exchange throughput.

Back to the ATA 3 cabling... all ATA 3 cabling to meet SATA.org certification must be 1) identified with the SATA 3 6Gbs label on the cable and connectors 2) must be of premium quality 3) must be shielded 4) must meet or exceed performance standards of SATA.org and 4) cables must be kept as short as possible and use the least number of interconnects/connectors/adapter etc.

The 6Gbs standard has inherent difficulties that are not found in the ATA 2 standard cabling. The higher frequency of the 6Gbs ATA makes it extremely sensitive to attenuation and jitter. It means better quality connectors, fewer connectors to connect devices together, and better quality power and signal communications. This alone should make us all pay closer attention to power supply quality and performance. Some power supplies have greater jitter and this will come into play with SATA 6Gbs. Issues with electronic/electrical jitter can be traced to the power supply close/loose tolerances. Also, the day we could use 4-4, 3-3 etc. cabling for cable management are gone the way of the past. Due to ATA 6Gbs sensitivity to impedance imbalance within multi device cabling SATA standards recommend single device cables. We can no longer use those combined cables.

The short of all this per SATA.org is simple: Remember the 3 's'es 1) Keep cables short 2) Use shielded cables 3) Use single cables whenever possible. SATA 3 6Gbs cables are difficult to find right now. As more vendors get on the bandwagon of this standard of performance expect the debate to come to a close. Be aware of "buyer beware". Be informed and on the look out for those who will sell you anything.
September 12, 2010 6:56:07 PM

Just go to http://www.sata-io.org and download or read online the actual facts of SATA revision 3. This is information from those
that design the revision and everything that is taken into account.

You will then understand that there is no difference yet there could be one from SATA I to SATA III. When you move data at
higher speeds (it's the same data at all speeds), one is confronted with noise & jitter the faster you go. Wires won't change
that. Insulation protects you from it, both your data being transferred and other devices near the cables also.
Bottom Line: Quality vs Cheaply made. There are tons of SATA II cables that are more than qualified to do the job & many that
may not be.

Read the pdf 'nps20B2' and you'll know anything you may ever need or want to know.

hkb

IceHappy said:
Lmeow thanks again for your comment but I think it is safe to say that there is no such thing as Sata 3! Sata 3 is the cable Aquatuning.co.uk has sold me. I assumed at the time of ordering which was stupid of me that their Sata 3 was a 6Gb/s cable not just a fancy cable which was not 6Gb/s rated. So to recap what I poorly said is I am purchasing not as u suggest a Sata 3, as I already have two of those from aquatuning but indeed a SATA 6Gb/s rated cable. All due respect it is slang to call Sata 6G/bs SATA 3 or at least I have read that idea on another forum which of course is only adding to the confusion. If Sata 6Gb/s is one standard and as aquatuning is suggesting that Sata 3 cables are another standard then it begs the question as to what is the difference between Sata 2 which is rated 3 Gb/s and aquatuning new Sata 3 cable.

I have indeed placed an order for the Sata 6G cables but was hoping for more debate! What I was hoping for was more information to the why there is no more information about this new cable and the why people in so many forums seem divided the difference between the two cables. I was also hoping to see someone with some test results proving one way or the other if this cable is actually needed. I am buying a couple and will do some tests when my system is finished. I will post them when I have.

Has anyone tried both cables to see what the results are???

Is anyone curious to why we have no information about this. Seems as if everyone accepts the difference between Sata 1 and Sata 2 I don't understand why the division over Sata 2 and Sata 6Gb/s!

Anyone?!?!?
September 12, 2010 8:07:57 PM

That would make sense big easy has it, but again if we were talking about the insulation on a cable would that make much of greater difference to the data transfer rate sure you get interference but how much better would you be able to insulate that cable under the circumstances, also true to what big is saying transfer rates, write speeds, read speeds and bandwidth adaption you current sata 2 and sata 3 cables will equate that there again why the sata three, if it is not necessary at this stage sure in the future but not now? Well Big has hit the nail on the head! What he says and argues makes complete sense remember the 3"S
September 13, 2010 4:45:52 AM

I see it as you do. but.... I have 2 SATA 3 cables, comparing both (2 vs 3), the SATA 3 cable has a heavier shell but the wire appears a bit thicker but that can be due to the coating. The connectors are absolutely not different than SATA 2. Where the wire joins the connector, it really appears no bigger than the SATA 2 connectors.

Anyway, what I just did. I removed the SATA 3 cables and replaced them with nice (and much shorter) Gigabyte cables, they're yellow with metal lock clips, and a bit better than most cables I've seen. Truth be told, the short cables are performing better. Don't need an app to measure this it's that obvious to me. For SATA 3 I have a Highpoint card and their cables are way to long for internal use (I wrapped them up but I think they were like 3 ft., ones I'm using are 18".

Connected to the card, WD FAEX (6GB/s) & a WD FALS (3GB/s). Haven't done serious measurements yet, eventually maybe.

HKB


Pilk said:
That would make sense big easy has it, but again if we were talking about the insulation on a cable would that make much of greater difference to the data transfer rate sure you get interference but how much better would you be able to insulate that cable under the circumstances, also true to what big is saying transfer rates, write speeds, read speeds and bandwidth adaption you current sata 2 and sata 3 cables will equate that there again why the sata three, if it is not necessary at this stage sure in the future but not now? Well Big has hit the nail on the head! What he says and argues makes complete sense remember the 3"S

February 12, 2011 6:49:48 PM

Please go to https://www.sata-io.org/documents/SATA-6Gbs-Fast-Just-G... download this file and read it.

Pay particular attention to the paragraph which says:

And I quote:

"SATA Revision 3.0 was designed to facilitate a much more elegant – and cost effective – migration to higher data rates. Rather than completely redefining the spec, SATA Revision 3.0 achieves its data rate increase by faster signal switching. While this has resulted in changes to the PHY, modifications to the protocol have been kept to a minimum.

In addition, SATA Revision 3.0 is backward compatible so that the same connectors and cabling used for SATA 3 Gb/s under SATA Revision 2.6 can be used for SATA 6Gb/s."



Thank You
!