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Windows XP Format for Windows 7 HELP!

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July 29, 2012 8:49:26 PM

Hi. I have installed windows XP on an AGILITY 3 90GB performing a #Full Format#, and now want to install Windows 7 instead, and am worried i have damaged the SSD with the windows xp full Format...

Will this effect the performance of the SSD drive once i put Windows 7 on with a clean install?

Worried!!!!!

Thank you : )

More about : windows format windows

July 29, 2012 8:58:09 PM

Nah it shouldn't affect anything...as long as you're not doing this on a daily basis :lol: 
a b $ Windows 7
a c 155 G Storage
July 29, 2012 9:00:24 PM

kilo_17 said:
Nah it shouldn't affect anything...as long as you're not doing this on a daily basis :lol: 

Imagine that, someone full formatting an SSD every day.

Sure it makes every cell get 1 P/E cycle, but you have lots left. You should not see any performance issues from it, but always quick format in the future(or better secure erase).
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July 29, 2012 9:03:21 PM

nukemaster said:
Imagine that, someone full formatting an SSD every day.


Now THAT would be pretty bad :o 
July 29, 2012 9:09:34 PM

nukemaster said:
Imagine that, someone full formatting an SSD every day.

Sure it makes every cell get 1 P/E cycle, but you have lots left. You should not see any performance issues from it, but always quick format in the future(or better secure erase).


Hi, i readabout the secure erase, should i do this before i put windows 7 on, to 'fix' the drive? Will this matter at all? if so, where and how do i do it?

thanks for your help, ive been at this allllll day....zzzzzzz :whistle: 
a b $ Windows 7
a c 155 G Storage
July 29, 2012 9:15:50 PM

Just quick format and you should be fine. Once you get all your drivers and stuff, run the WEI to rate the computer. While doing this the computer will disable defrag for the SSD. Other then that, everything should be good. Many users reduce page file size and remove hibernate as well(saves lots of space. I got 12gigs back by disabling Hibernate).
July 29, 2012 9:17:40 PM

Wow, takes quite a bit to take one of those out, I would have thought they would have went bad quicker than that.
a b $ Windows 7
a c 155 G Storage
July 29, 2012 9:23:41 PM

I am just using a cheap Kingston with NO "optimization". Seeing how long it lasts :) 

I think in the old days, many users used to bench the SSD's to death as well as defrag then to say....ohhh sooo fast.

Also with an SSD evenly distributing writes across the nand flash, windows will show a SSD as fragmented, but it has not real clue what it is like.

Note to self, reduce page file size maybe.


EDIT. yeah also technically, newer drives to fail faster, but i am sure the larger the size, the more space it will have to wear level the drive.
July 30, 2012 3:39:50 AM

So your drive isn't actually that fragmented, it's just Windows viewing things the wrong way?
a b $ Windows 7
a c 155 G Storage
July 30, 2012 9:43:51 PM

Windows views it that way, But Win7 and 8 will not touch it because its is a(why does it feel like this should be "an") SSD.

I am sure it is fragmented to some degree(and ONLY the SSD knows the locations of all the bits: ) ) since ALL ssd's internally fragment the files among the free cells(as part of the firmware the drive tries to use all cells evenly to make the drive last longer. Without it, you would wear out parts of a SSD quicker), but since they do not have the delay of a mechanical drive getting from place to place, it does not negatively effect performance.
July 30, 2012 11:34:58 PM

Ah ha.....that's interesting..I didn't know the SSD's firmware actually fragments the data to equalize the load on all the cells. Makes me wonder if my frequent defragmenting of my HDD is wearing it out at all..even though it's completely different than an SSD.
a b $ Windows 7
a c 155 G Storage
July 31, 2012 1:40:45 AM

It is much different. A hard drive can be written in the same spot over and over again without much worry.

In consumer level nand memery chip(MLC), each cell holds 2 bits(or 3 for some strange stuff that should be in ssds some time in the future). Now each of those cells can only be program/erased(you erase it then place the data on it) so many times. For older flash it was something like 8-10k times. Now the newer stuff is 3-5k in most cases. As you have seem from the link, it seems you can push well past those numbers.

Back on topic, if you lets say update a file every day(think of all the logs your computer edits on a daily basis) and it writes to the same spot in the nand, it would fail rather quick(worse part is that you would not wear out the drive, just that section).

To make this issue worse, the cell has to write BOTH(Or THREE with that stuff that is still not used yet) of those bits at the same time. So if you have to add another bit to the cell because it is only half full, the drive has to erase then write the 2 parts at the same time. You can imagine that you would wear out the drive real quick this way. By the drive keeping all the flash wearing at the same time, your text file has to write over the drive time and time again allow a much greater life span for the drive it self.

USB flash drives do the same thing.

This having to have to write the full cell every time is also why if a SSD firmware does not do its job right, you get slow downs. If a SSD has tons of half filled cells and no more free cells, it has to wait while it prepares clean cells(erase) for writing. This is when the performance takes a hit. TRIM as well as background garbage collection allows the drive to try to get those clean cells ready before they are needed to give you better performance.

To make matters more interesting, consumer level flash comes in more then one type.
Async - Cheap, but good enough for many users.(cheap, but gets the job done.)
Sync - Better and used in many SSDs(Medium Price)
Toggle - Considered to be the BEST you can get.(expensive, but performs better in many cases.)

This is a good article on 60gig Sandforce(Controller) based drives, but has stats for some non Sandforce drives as well. You will also see that sometimes benchmarks to do not effect the real world performance.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-60gb-benchmark-...

With higher end commercial or server level drives a different kind of flash is used(SLC).With this expensive memory, each cell only needs to hold 1 bit. This way, you never have to free cells and performance is better. Another side effect is not extra PE cycles are wasted to clean cells because you NEVER have to take off data and rewrite to add a second bit to a cell. This stuff cost more, but has great performance.

May be worth a look at this as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_cell

EDIT

And...

Sorry for taking this WAY off topic.
December 27, 2012 3:46:32 AM

P910607 said:
Hi. I have installed windows XP on an AGILITY 3 90GB performing a #Full Format#, and now want to install Windows 7 instead, and am worried i have damaged the SSD with the windows xp full Format...

Will this effect the performance of the SSD drive once i put Windows 7 on with a clean install?

Worried!!!!!

Thank you : )

December 27, 2012 11:00:04 AM



The SSD will be fine. But you should SECURE ERASE it with the provided Linux Based tools from the OCZ website. Secure Erase resets the SSD to a factory state, without the need for full formatting. This should be done by putting secure erase on a USB pen drive, and initiating the BOOT in DOS to the USB.

Secure erase will run, erase the SSD, re-boot and install windows 7.

Installing windows 7 from a USB can also be a benefit, where windows 7 wont boot from disk. This is nothing to do with the SSD, but i also had issues with W7 that were solved this way.

instructions for secure erase are here:
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?...!!-OCZ-Bootable-Toolbox-PC-Edition-%28REBUILD%29

look for the Secure Erasing your OCZ SSD; section half way down.

the tool can be downloaded here, from the OCZ site
http://www.ocztechnology.com/ssd_tools/SandForce_Based/

Just secure erase, then install W7 on top of the clean empty disk. Potential damage top your disk will come from putting the pc to sleep in standby mode, instead of shutting down, disable standby and sleep in settings, or the read-writes get messed up.

p.s, make sure that TRIM is enabled also for your disk, which sirts all the crap when it shuts down, GOOGLE enabling it.
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