Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Nikon D70 vs Sony 828

Last response: in Digital Camera
Share
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 4:37:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I have been using a Sony 828 for about a year, since it was first released.
I finally broke down and got a Nikon D70 to leverage the closet full of
Nikon lenses.
Preliminary results are astounding:
Poor color fideltiy and detail, exposure problems, fringing: just like the
reviewers said.
Only it is the D70 that so far is a stunning disappointment in terms of
image quality shooting in jpeg, Raw, RGB or sRGB.
I am staring at Photoshop CS with Sony and D70 images side by side and the
still life arrangement I have used for a preliminary test.
Obviously this is not a scientific test but a pick up the cameras, put them
on a tripod, make comparable settings and press the shutter buttons.
I like the 828 but I fully expected the D70 to blow it away; so far Truman
beat Dewey again.
I will be heartbroken, and out $1100, if further results don't change this
impression. I am hoping much is due to the dubious quality of the Nikon
18-70mm lens compared to the very fine lens on the Sony 828.

More about : nikon d70 sony 828

Anonymous
December 14, 2004 4:37:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Interesting - for your sake I hope it's just the kit lens too!
Although I can't say I'm greatly surprised - I did find it a little
unfair that the 828 got such a bad rap for the colorfringing it
occasionally showed, when in actual fact that lovely Carl Zeiss lens is
really something quite special. I used a work 828 for a lot of
portraiture, and the sharpness/detail, contrast, color and bokeh of
that lens were simply superb. I ran into the purple fringing very
occasionally, but otherwise, the lens is superb and the 828 is a very
fine camera indeed. FWIW I now have an Oly 8080, and its lens is very
good too - better than the Sony's for CA, but overall, I think the
'look' of the Zeiss lens was just slightly better...

Once upon a time I was tempted by going the DSLR road, but I'm now
pretty happy with my decision to stay on the cheaper pathway..
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 5:45:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I forgot to mention moire patterning- with the D70 this seems very obvious
in enlargements of many highly textured surfaces. When the D70 first came
out there were many images posted showing moire but these got ignored
because the common wisdom annointed the D70 "camera of the year." I can see
how for ordinary shooting the D70 would be a capable performer, but so far I
find the results underwhelming, to say the least.
Related resources
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 5:45:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

You might want to do a couple of things:

- Borrow a good Nikon lens (which can be an inexpensive 50/1.8) just to
check.

- Check camera settings to see if there is a sharpening adjustment or
something.
December 14, 2004 9:14:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

My advice to you would be to read the manual for the Nikon D70 from front to
back. Then try to take some pictures of the same object under the many
options that the D70 can give you. Hopefully you will find as I have that
whatever type of picture you're looking for you should be able to achieve
with this camera.This is not a point and shoot camera and to not use all the
many options that this camera can give you would be a real waste of your
time and money.



"bmoag" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:jtsvd.59403$QJ3.33600@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> I forgot to mention moire patterning- with the D70 this seems very obvious
> in enlargements of many highly textured surfaces. When the D70 first came
> out there were many images posted showing moire but these got ignored
> because the common wisdom annointed the D70 "camera of the year." I can
see
> how for ordinary shooting the D70 would be a capable performer, but so far
I
> find the results underwhelming, to say the least.
>
>
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 12:07:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

What you should be seeing is images that about the same in resolution, but
the images fromt he D70 should be far less noisier than the Sony.

Also, the Sony isn't a bad camera, and your expectations may have been a
little high.

"bmoag" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Ktrvd.33660$zx1.15623@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>I have been using a Sony 828 for about a year, since it was first released.
> I finally broke down and got a Nikon D70 to leverage the closet full of
> Nikon lenses.
> Preliminary results are astounding:
> Poor color fideltiy and detail, exposure problems, fringing: just like the
> reviewers said.
> Only it is the D70 that so far is a stunning disappointment in terms of
> image quality shooting in jpeg, Raw, RGB or sRGB.
> I am staring at Photoshop CS with Sony and D70 images side by side and the
> still life arrangement I have used for a preliminary test.
> Obviously this is not a scientific test but a pick up the cameras, put
> them on a tripod, make comparable settings and press the shutter buttons.
> I like the 828 but I fully expected the D70 to blow it away; so far Truman
> beat Dewey again.
> I will be heartbroken, and out $1100, if further results don't change this
> impression. I am hoping much is due to the dubious quality of the Nikon
> 18-70mm lens compared to the very fine lens on the Sony 828.
>
December 14, 2004 12:35:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <xsCvd.2$mz3.1@bos-service2.ext.ray.com>,
TheArtist@FormerlyKnownAs.Bowser says...
> What you should be seeing is images that about the same in resolution, but
> the images fromt he D70 should be far less noisier than the Sony.
>
> Also, the Sony isn't a bad camera, and your expectations may have been a
> little high.
>

With the Sony its the lens, the lens, and the lens.

You do have to satisfy yourself with ISO 64 and ISO 100... the rest are too
noisy.. Neat image can clean them up somewhat, but it isnt like getting them
clean to begin with. I do use the higher ISO when there is no other way to
get the photos, but it takes a LOT of work to turn them into something
useable.

There is, from time to time, purple fringing in some shots, but if you are
carefull and shoot the same way you would to avoid "blowing out" the
highlights (under-expose just a tad) the fringing becomes a non issue.

Im convinced the fringing is a "sensor thing" and NOT chromatic aberation
from the lens, simply because I've avoided it so easily in most of my shots,
since I started working to avoid it.

What Im trying to say here is I think the 828 and the D70 are six of one and
half dozen of the other.

Neither of them is a perfect camera, but if you use all the options available
in them they BOTH take GREAT pictures.

The choice is up to the buyer.

As a side note, when I bought my 828 the D70 had not yet been made
available... Would I have bought it if it were?? Hard question, as I LOVE my
828 (and the fact that it loads memory sticks AND CF cards both at the same
time which allows me to have twice as much memory on-board when I start
shooting without paying the per megabyte premium for the larger cf cards).

--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 2:39:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <Ktrvd.33660$zx1.15623@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, bmoag
> Only it is the D70 that so far is a stunning disappointment in terms of
> image quality

There must be something wrong somewhere. My D70 is really good.
And the reviewers agree. See for example the conclusion of the
ImagingResource.com review below...
(and he tests very very thoroughly.)

---

D70 conclusion
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D70/D70A14.HTM

When Canon dropped their $999 bombshell (the Digital Rebel) on the
d-SLR market last year, a lot of people were wondering what Nikon
would/could do to counter. Canon has a lot of experience making
well-performing, yet very cheap film SLRs, and they have the further
advantage of being vertically integrated, making the sensor and
primary processing chip used in the Digital Rebel as well. Could/can
Nikon compete? The D70 answers that question with a resounding "yes".
I have no doubt that we'll see Canon drop the price on the Rebel by a
fair bit, as the D70 gets out into the market, and Canon themselves
begins to meet the runaway demand they've been struggling to keep up
with. But even if there ends up being a bigger price differential than
the $100 (for the body alone) or $300 (for the body/lens combo) that
currently separates the Rebel and the D70, the D70 represents a
commanding proposition. It's a tremendously capable d-SLR that
noticeably advances the state of the art for cameras anywhere close to
its price point. The lens it ships with is first-rate, with a wider
focal-length range and faster maximum aperture than the Canon
equivalent, and the camera itself just feels good in the hand. It's
also remarkably responsive, with true instant-on availability, a
responsive shutter, and truly exceptional continuous-shooting ability.
Naturally, none of this would mean anything if the D70's images weren't
up to snuff, but image quality is absolutely first rate as well. All in
all, the D70 is an excellent camera, with features and performance
well beyond what one might expect from an attractively priced d-SLR.
Highly recommended!

--
- Eolake
--
email@maccreator.com
http://MacCreator.com
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 3:11:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"bmoag" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Ktrvd.33660$zx1.15623@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>I have been using a Sony 828 for about a year, since it was first released.
> I finally broke down and got a Nikon D70 to leverage the closet full of
> Nikon lenses.
> Preliminary results are astounding:
> Poor color fideltiy and detail, exposure problems, fringing: just like the
> reviewers said.
> Only it is the D70 that so far is a stunning disappointment in terms of
> image quality shooting in jpeg, Raw, RGB or sRGB.
> I am staring at Photoshop CS with Sony and D70 images side by side and the
> still life arrangement I have used for a preliminary test.
> Obviously this is not a scientific test but a pick up the cameras, put
> them on a tripod, make comparable settings and press the shutter buttons.
> I like the 828 but I fully expected the D70 to blow it away; so far Truman
> beat Dewey again.
> I will be heartbroken, and out $1100, if further results don't change this
> impression. I am hoping much is due to the dubious quality of the Nikon
> 18-70mm lens compared to the very fine lens on the Sony 828.

Make sure that all the custom functions and image processing parameters are
set the way you like them first.

The D70 has a lot of control over the in camera processing options, and you
may want to tweak them to your satisfaction before making a final opinion on
this camera....
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 3:17:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

bmoag wrote:
> I have been using a Sony 828 for about a year, since it was first released.
> I finally broke down and got a Nikon D70 to leverage the closet full of
> Nikon lenses.
> Preliminary results are astounding:
> Poor color fideltiy and detail, exposure problems, fringing: just like the

Add 2x higher failure rate vs. Canon Rebel based on PC Magazine's
very latest digital camera reliablity reviews.

Here, a high-end Canon EOS d-SLR would have been the better choice....
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 6:52:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Actually the comparisons I have been making are generally using the RAW
format of both the 828 and the D70 to avoid in-camera processing, opening
images from both with Photoshop CS and only adjusting the width of the
histogram.
So far I am still disappointed with color fidelity, resolution and the very
large amount of moire in images made with the D70. These issues are not lens
related.
There is no disputing that the D70 is more flexible and sophisticated than
the 828 in terms of program, exposure and lens options.
My early experience comparing the Sony828 and the D70, simply eyeballing
images made under reasonably identical circumstances, shows glaring
differences in the quality of images produced by these cameras.
I have little doubt about which images viewers would pick as superior if
they did not know which camera made which image.
It would not be the D70.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 6:52:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"bmoag" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:l%Dvd.42707$6q2.5938@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Actually the comparisons I have been making are generally using the RAW
> format of both the 828 and the D70 to avoid in-camera processing, opening
> images from both with Photoshop CS and only adjusting the width of the
> histogram.

AH!!! Every camera has its own raw format. Photoshop may not know very
much about how to process the D70's raw files. There may be an update to
Photoshop to deal with this. In the meantime, I recommend using Nikon's
software to do the conversion. (I presume they give you software to do
it...I don't have a D70 quite yet.)

I've seen some awful results from opening a raw file in Photoshop when
Photoshop does not quite know how to handle it, and defaults to something
not quite right.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 7:12:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"bmoag" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:l%Dvd.42707$6q2.5938@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Actually the comparisons I have been making are generally using the RAW
> format of both the 828 and the D70 to avoid in-camera processing, opening
> images from both with Photoshop CS and only adjusting the width of the
> histogram.
> So far I am still disappointed with color fidelity, resolution and the
> very large amount of moire in images made with the D70. These issues are
> not lens related.
> There is no disputing that the D70 is more flexible and sophisticated than
> the 828 in terms of program, exposure and lens options.
> My early experience comparing the Sony828 and the D70, simply eyeballing
> images made under reasonably identical circumstances, shows glaring
> differences in the quality of images produced by these cameras.
> I have little doubt about which images viewers would pick as superior if
> they did not know which camera made which image.
> It would not be the D70.

Can you stick a few comparisons up on the web somewhere please ?

As for the moire issue - it is a known one on the D70 when shooting certain
subjects, but I have shot over 10K images on my D70 and only had it exhibit
bad moire on a few occasions when shooting highly textured subjects.

The other thing I find bad on the D70 is when shooting bright red subjects.
It tends to give too much red. Examples would be Santa, or a London bus or
Postbox - all come out with the red blown out in places.
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 4:31:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I had a Nikon 8800, which is at least comparable to the 828. The images from
the D70 (once I learned how to use it) are better than the 8800...and yet we're
ultimately talking about subtle things. As someone pointed out, the 828 is a
very good camera. It's not a 300 dollar Olympus and pushes the envelope of
prosumer gear.

RB
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 10:40:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:17:25 -0800, in rec.photo.digital David Chien
<chiendh@uci.edu> wrote:

>bmoag wrote:
>> I have been using a Sony 828 for about a year, since it was first released.
>> I finally broke down and got a Nikon D70 to leverage the closet full of
>> Nikon lenses.
>> Preliminary results are astounding:
>> Poor color fideltiy and detail, exposure problems, fringing: just like the
>
> Add 2x higher failure rate vs. Canon Rebel based on PC Magazine's
>very latest digital camera reliablity reviews.

With a sampling of a whole 168 responses. Now there's a valid
population sample.
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 5:45:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Michael A. Covington" <look@www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address&gt; wrote
in message news:41bf4228$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...
>
> "bmoag" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:l%Dvd.42707$6q2.5938@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> Actually the comparisons I have been making are generally using the RAW
>> format of both the 828 and the D70 to avoid in-camera processing, opening
>> images from both with Photoshop CS and only adjusting the width of the
>> histogram.
>
> AH!!! Every camera has its own raw format. Photoshop may not know very
> much about how to process the D70's raw files. There may be an update to
> Photoshop to deal with this. In the meantime, I recommend using Nikon's
> software to do the conversion. (I presume they give you software to do
> it...I don't have a D70 quite yet.)

You do need to make sure to download and install the latest "Camera RAW"
plug in for photoshop to get the correct RAW conversion capabilities.

>
> I've seen some awful results from opening a raw file in Photoshop when
> Photoshop does not quite know how to handle it, and defaults to something
> not quite right.
>
>
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 9:10:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

bmoag <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Actually the comparisons I have been making are generally using the RAW
> format of both the 828 and the D70 to avoid in-camera processing, opening
> images from both with Photoshop CS and only adjusting the width of the
> histogram.
> So far I am still disappointed with color fidelity, resolution and the very
> large amount of moire in images made with the D70. These issues are not lens
> related.

Colour moire is to some extent Photoshop CS related -- its default raw
converter does tend to emphasize this. See the "color noise
reduction" tab to adjust the default.

Resolution should be excellent, although the cheap kit lens could be
problematic.

Colour fidelity is a harder one to diagnose: it should be excellent,
but we have no way to know what your problems might be. Maybe
something in the scene is out of gamut, or maybe there was a white
balance problem. Maybe your monitor is out of whack. Maybe the 828
delivers higher saturation by default.

> My early experience comparing the Sony828 and the D70, simply eyeballing
> images made under reasonably identical circumstances, shows glaring
> differences in the quality of images produced by these cameras.

You may be convinced, but without seeing the two images we have no way
to know.

Andrew.
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 9:39:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:12:42 -0000, "adm" <adm1@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>
>"bmoag" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>news:l%Dvd.42707$6q2.5938@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> Actually the comparisons I have been making are generally using the RAW
>> format of both the 828 and the D70 to avoid in-camera processing, opening
>> images from both with Photoshop CS and only adjusting the width of the
>> histogram.
>> So far I am still disappointed with color fidelity, resolution and the
>> very large amount of moire in images made with the D70. These issues are
>> not lens related.
>> There is no disputing that the D70 is more flexible and sophisticated than
>> the 828 in terms of program, exposure and lens options.
>> My early experience comparing the Sony828 and the D70, simply eyeballing
>> images made under reasonably identical circumstances, shows glaring
>> differences in the quality of images produced by these cameras.
>> I have little doubt about which images viewers would pick as superior if
>> they did not know which camera made which image.
>> It would not be the D70.
>
>Can you stick a few comparisons up on the web somewhere please ?

Yes bmoag, lets have some samples online before I killfile you for
being a troll.

>As for the moire issue - it is a known one on the D70 when shooting certain
>subjects, but I have shot over 10K images on my D70 and only had it exhibit
>bad moire on a few occasions when shooting highly textured subjects.

So far, I've noticed it on fly-screens only.

>The other thing I find bad on the D70 is when shooting bright red subjects.
>It tends to give too much red. Examples would be Santa, or a London bus or
>Postbox - all come out with the red blown out in places.

Watch the RAW import histogram, It'll show the reds have been
over-exposed. The D70 uses only the green channel for it's built-in
histogram (or some say 60% green, 20% for red + blue), either way, it
can't be trusted in this situation. If you've set your EV to -1/3 or
-1/2 always this will be less of a problem.

Dunno where you live, but both London busses and postboxes are usually
a grimy deep red. Santa hats are the worst.

--
Owamanga!
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 12:02:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Owamanga" <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2v01s0ppg24ptktcj66r7nnh7lbj5k03t3@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:12:42 -0000, "adm" <adm1@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>>
>>"bmoag" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>news:l%Dvd.42707$6q2.5938@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>> Actually the comparisons I have been making are generally using the RAW
>>> format of both the 828 and the D70 to avoid in-camera processing,
>>> opening
>>> images from both with Photoshop CS and only adjusting the width of the
>>> histogram.
>>> So far I am still disappointed with color fidelity, resolution and the
>>> very large amount of moire in images made with the D70. These issues are
>>> not lens related.
>>> There is no disputing that the D70 is more flexible and sophisticated
>>> than
>>> the 828 in terms of program, exposure and lens options.
>>> My early experience comparing the Sony828 and the D70, simply eyeballing
>>> images made under reasonably identical circumstances, shows glaring
>>> differences in the quality of images produced by these cameras.
>>> I have little doubt about which images viewers would pick as superior if
>>> they did not know which camera made which image.
>>> It would not be the D70.
>>
>>Can you stick a few comparisons up on the web somewhere please ?
>
> Yes bmoag, lets have some samples online before I killfile you for
> being a troll.
>
>>As for the moire issue - it is a known one on the D70 when shooting
>>certain
>>subjects, but I have shot over 10K images on my D70 and only had it
>>exhibit
>>bad moire on a few occasions when shooting highly textured subjects.
>
> So far, I've noticed it on fly-screens only.
>
>>The other thing I find bad on the D70 is when shooting bright red
>>subjects.
>>It tends to give too much red. Examples would be Santa, or a London bus or
>>Postbox - all come out with the red blown out in places.
>
> Watch the RAW import histogram, It'll show the reds have been
> over-exposed. The D70 uses only the green channel for it's built-in
> histogram (or some say 60% green, 20% for red + blue), either way, it
> can't be trusted in this situation. If you've set your EV to -1/3 or
> -1/2 always this will be less of a problem.


>
> Dunno where you live, but both London busses and postboxes are usually
> a grimy deep red. Santa hats are the worst.

I live in Brixton.

And they are grimy - and the D70 does overcook them in my experience. I
quite like it though. Same thing with red flowers.

Mind you, I have my WB tweaked to -2, and u
>
> --
> Owamanga!
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 12:19:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Michael A. Covington" <look@www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address&gt; wrote
in message news:41bf4228$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...

>
> AH!!! Every camera has its own raw format. Photoshop may not know very
> much about how to process the D70's raw files. There may be an update to
> Photoshop to deal with this. In the meantime, I recommend using Nikon's
> software to do the conversion.

Good comment Michael. I went spare trying to get the type of image sharpness
from D70 RAW images when I first got it. I used PSCS exclusively for about a
month, then in desperatio I loaded the Nikon Capture software and what a
difference it made to sharpening in particular.

I now find I don't use PS much at all for most of my shots, and use the
Nikon Capture program for basic snapshot touch up.

Sam
!