Best cad machine of Doom?

jasondworkman

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If money was no object, what would run AutoCAD Civil(or MAP havent decided yet,... have a lot of acreage to show like 12 quads), 3ds Max(for physics,lighting tests, partical analisis, and Architectual Rendering), Autodesk Inventor (for mechanical acuracy), AutoCAD MEP (for the big picture), and check my e-mail at the same time?

Data storage is an issue too. The point cloud data gets rather large depending on the detail it was scaned at. I have some files at 1.5Gig or better.
 
Solution
Ok so this is a base build I'd recommend.


Optical
Lite-On $20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289

Case
[strike]Buncha Choices, on a budget I'd recommend the HAF 922, great airflow, huge case for a great price. $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197[/strike]

not sure if this case supports extended atx, I thought it did. I'll take a look tonight.

Can also look at the Cosmos x cases, a bit more expensive. $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138&cm_re=cosmos-_-11-119-138-_-Product

Can also consider really expensive aluminum cases, but out department workstations never move, I doubt you'll be moving yours much either, so no point really.

HD
4x Samsung...

banthracis

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Obviously above build is outrageously priced.

To be practical, I'd suggest an i7-980x, and gtx 470 or 480.

Give us an idea of your budget, and guestimate total storage needs (1 TB, 2 TB?) and we can make a build for you. Also fill out form in sticky, link in my sig.
 

jasondworkman

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banthracis,

Thank you for answering my post! I have some questions....
(I am not up to speed on the hardware side of things as of late so, please parden my ignorant questions)

Dual Intel Xeon X7560 Nehalem-EX 2.26GHz
To be practical, I'd suggest an i7-980x
--What is the proformance difference between the two? will it be noticable in my switch between software packages?

3 Tesla's
---how will the Tesla's work to enhance the machine? what do they do I guess.

and a quadro
I assume this is the best graphics card? does it tie into the Tesla's somehow?

Throw in 12gb of G Skill Tridents and you'll be good.
as far as ram goes,.. are these good? what makes them good to use? would I need to worry about refresh rate in the "L2? cash"(is that right?)?

Storage? I'll be a bit more conservative
I probubly anticipate 2 Tera.. but may need a way to back it up daily too..
is "ray-to-ray" the correct way... (term)?

and recommend a 200gb Vertex 2
and a couple PCIE SSD's.
SSD no HDD? or how does that work? do they have a tendancy to degrade data? I assume the SSD has a faster access rate due to the solid state part..
are there any issues with it corrupting data?

do I need a special motherboard to handle all these?
do I need to worry about cooling systems?
what's the maintainace on a system like this?


as far as building it.. I will more than likely have the corprate IT guy make it for me... I may point him your way though.

Thanks again for your response!
 

banthracis

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LOl reminds me of my staff and me. We all use core 2 duo system in the office, our video editing computer is a 3 yr old Dell XPS laptop, but we all have i5/i7 systems at home we only use to surf the web, watch movies and occasionally game on...

Submit a request for a good $3000 workstation and the wrath of finance descends upon ye, but spend $500,000 on a PCR machine or $80,000 on a videoconferencing system and no one bats an eye.

Big university financial policy's FTL >.<
 

jasondworkman

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I know... My current work computer is an AMD Athalon x2? with 3GB of RAM... I am constantly getting the "AutoCAD is Running out of system memory..." Error... I finaly convinced the IT guy to hook me up with a good system but he wants me to do the research for it.. so this is where I started... lol.. he hasn't gave me a budget.. just said he was going to build my system special.
 

Transmaniacon

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Back on topic:

I think for your needs, it sounds like something around $2500-$3000 is going to be your ballpark. As banthracis said, theres a sticky at the top of the forum that has a template for new builds. Fill it out, and then people can recommend builds for you.

 

Omniblivion

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1) You will want to overclock this- these high end parts are designed to be pushed. Overclocking the CPU should be rather easy, and will noticeably increase performance (a ton!)
2) SLI/Crossfire is what enables you to run multiple graphics cards simultaneously for increased performance. Crossfire needs to be enabled on single cards that hold 2 or more processors (ie: HD5970).
3) Get three monitors. You'll love them. (For productivity, 2 is great, 3 is freaking amazing. Anything after that is personal preference :) )
 

jasondworkman

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well, I apologize for not using the form.. the "Ask the Community" box was right there... so, here is the Form I think...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: within 30 days BUDGET RANGE: ??? (I don't know maybe $8k? I kinda want to give them an omg moment with)

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Windows 7,..large CAD File editing(point blob, DEM, MrSid, 100mb+ tiff files,ect.), Photo Real Rendering(mental Ray, Raytrace, HDMI, HiPoly, ect.), Physics simulation(Partical systems, Lighting analysis, sound db analysis, ect.) ... if possible run both 32 and 64 bit software products.... I may eventaly be doing some Video Editing on it as well...

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: All new (fingers crossed)

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: dont care COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: USA(Mountain TimeZone)

PARTS PREFERENCES: It's a Workstation of Doom.. what ever is the most Doom!

OVERCLOCKING: No / Maybe rather not it is a work computer...

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Maybe ?? (what is this?)

MONITOR RESOLUTION: I will probubly request duel monitors at max 1920x1200

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: I am looking to get this for a actual work computer and haven't been given a budget on price. I don't want any bells and wistles just a mean fast workstation with no gaming in mind. so, I would like a quiet PC that is corprorate like. I will probubly be using it for 9+ hours a work day. possible over the weekend renders...

Thanks for your Time!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

jasondworkman

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Omniblivion,

wouldn't Overclocking create a overheating issue on the system? would I need a cooling system to counter act that?

I guess SLI/Crossfire.. would be a must in my case...

3 monitors may be cramped in my work space... unless I rearange things... hmmm... I will look into that...

Does any one have oppinions on 3d navigators? Keyboards? Mice? for use in the 3d CAD/Graphics enviroment?
 

Omniblivion

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You are able to do moderate, "Safe" overclocks on even the stock CPU cooler that comes with the CPU. I wouldn't ever recommend using the stock cooler on any overclock.

Considering you will be running CPU intense programs and processes anyways, I would definitely recommend getting an aftermarket CPU cooler- regardless if you overclock or not. Ideally, on a several thousand dollar computer, you could go water cooling. I am not too big of a fan of WC- air often times works just as well, unless you're benchmarking. I would recommend that you go the Megahelms CPU cooler with a push/pull configuration (you need to buy the fans/y-splitter separately)- the total cost would be about $80-$100 depending on the fans you get. Installation is rather easy.

Most high end processors (especially the ones mentioned above) are designed to be overclocked. Once you've chosen a processor, we can help you figure out an approximate overclock level for a 24/7 load. This type of overclock that I am suggesting (perhaps a 20-30% overclock) is completely safe (provided you have the right cpu cooler) and increases performance amazingly.
 

banthracis

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Yea, haha back on topic.

The build in my first post is really more of an unlimited budget dream machine.

Xeon's are server grade CPU's. The one's I linked are 8 core 16 threads CPU's aimed at the extreme high end. Use a dual CPU MOBO and that 16 cores 32 threads of power right there. However, a single one cost's more than an entire system.

the i7-980x is a 6 core 12 thread CPU, which is basically the top end of the consumer CPU's.

The performance difference between the two would be quite substantial in well threaded applications. However, at $1,000 vs $8,000 you won't see 8x performance, more like 2-3x the performance.

Tesla's and Quadro's are workstation GPU's. They're have the greatest impact on floating-point calculations, but will greatly benefit any calculations that can be done in parallel.

AutoCAD, CAD, MATLAB and Autodesk all benefit greatly from CUDA. For them, a CUDA GPU basically act's like a CPU with hundreds of cores.

Quadro's have a display output, tesla don't. Hence you'd need at least 1 quadro or other GPU in the build.

RAM wise you really just want good timings, from a dependable brand and at least 1333mhz if you don't plan on Overclocking, 1600mhz if you do. The tridents will hit CAS 6 when underclocked to 1600, which basically is the best timings available ATM. The price is also very reasonable. Currently $200 for 6gb now on newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231254&cm_re=trident_2000-_-20-231-254-_-Product

Well if you need data safety and 2TB of storage my advice would be to do either a Raid 10 with 4 1 TB drives, or a Raid 5 with 3 1 TB drives.

Both will net you 2 TB of usable storage, and both have data safety. Raid 10 is less efficient, but can suffer multiple disk failures assuming not entire mirror is lost.

Raid 5 is nets you more usable space, but has can only have 1 drive fail.

SSD's are the future of storage. They replace mechanical harddrives with purely flash based memory (no moving parts). This result sin much higher dependabilty, less power use and heat, and MUCH faster read, write speeds and much more I/O bandwidth.

However, cost wise they're very expensive. You pay about $0.10 per GB in a mechanical drives, ~$2.5- $4.0 per GB in an SSD.

For the dual xeon build, yes you'll need a specialized MOBO. For a 980x, any good 1366 board will work. Cooling wise, a good case with good airflow is about it. If you want to overclock then you can also get an aftermarket HSF.

Maintenance is mostly keeping drives and software/os up to date. Clean out dust once in a while, clean filters if you have every other week or so.

But like I said, give us a budget really, because a good workstation can range from a $2,000 build, all the way up to a $25,000 build.



 

banthracis

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You don't overclock work builds. Voids warranty and may lead to data lose and system instability. Big no no's in work environment. This is a workstation build, not gaming build.

Mouse and keyboard wise, there honestly isn't much difference and it's purely a matter of personal preference. For a workstation really a standard USB keyboard and optical mouse works fine. I personally like 6 button mice, but it's all up to you really.

More monitors is nice, but I personally prefer to have 1 big 30" at 2560 x 1600 over 2 21.5" 1440x900 or 1920 x 1080 monitors.

So I'll just give you 2 full builds in a few minutes depending upon budget.
 

Omniblivion

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I stand corrected :na: old habits die hard.
 

banthracis

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Ok so this is a base build I'd recommend.


Optical
Lite-On $20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289

Case
[strike]Buncha Choices, on a budget I'd recommend the HAF 922, great airflow, huge case for a great price. $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197[/strike]

not sure if this case supports extended atx, I thought it did. I'll take a look tonight.

Can also look at the Cosmos x cases, a bit more expensive. $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138&cm_re=cosmos-_-11-119-138-_-Product

Can also consider really expensive aluminum cases, but out department workstations never move, I doubt you'll be moving yours much either, so no point really.

HD
4x Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB $80 each. Raid 10 or 5 these.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185

SSD
Vertex 2 200gb $750
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227530

RAM
2 kits of G skill Trident DDR3 2000 6gb kits. $200 each.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231254

MOBO
GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD9 $700
expensive, but it's got USB 3, SATA 6 and 4 PCIE x16 slots.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128446

CPU
i7-980x $1000
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223

Quadro FX 5800 $2,950
http://www.amazon.com/PNY-NVIDIA-Quadro-5800-DisplayPort/dp/B001L7YKKC/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276108497&sr=1-5

This comes out to $6,230


From here on it's time to add Tesla's as much as your budget permits and decide on the Power supply based on how many tesla's you end up getting.

The base system with a tesla's should be fine with a Seasonic 750W Gold. $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151087&Tpk=seasonic%20750w

If you end up populating all 4 slots with tesla's/quadro, then I'd recommend a Corsair 1200 $280
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Professional-Performance-1200-Watt-CMPSU-1200AX/dp/B003PJ6QVU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276119471&sr=1-2

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story5&reid=189

If you only want 1 or 2 GPU's and don't plan on adding more down the line, then we can get a much cheaper MOBO.
We can also cut cost's with a smaller SSD.
 
Solution

jasondworkman

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ok,.. .well it looks like the IT Guy left early today... I would aim for two budgets if you can.. .a $8k... and a $15k... I am sure I can at least get $8k but I may be realy pushing over $20k... thanks again for all your help! it's hard to keep up with all the hardware improvements when your stairing at drawings all day...
 

banthracis

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Well for 8k build, take my base build and add this tesla + the Seasonic 750.
http://www.amazon.com/NVIDIA-Tesla-C1060-Computing-Processor/dp/B001H5V6LO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276120299&sr=1-1

For $15,000 add 3 of these tesla's and the 1200W PSU from above.
http://www.amazon.com/NVIDIA-Tesla-C2050-Computing-Processor/dp/B003QRNMVS/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276120299&sr=1-6

also knock CPU up to this Xeon $1670
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117228&cm_re=xeon-_-19-117-228-_-Product

Also, imma actually say go with Cosmo's case for now. I thought Haf 922 supported extended ATX boards, but not 100% sure.

 

jasondworkman

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oh... well if he was going to build it from scratch I would assume he would just use the Company Credit Card and write off the charges as a full computer... we have prefered vendors for somethings but I havn't seen a big todo on individual computers.... the only prefered vendor I know of in my department is AutoDesk... but that is only because the Engineering Manager prefers AutoCAD over Solidworks... although... we do have the Solidworks Data management system... managing Autodesk files... at anyrate.. I doubt a preferd vender is an issue...(heck I was thinking about asking for a SGI machine)