Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Transfer whole HDD to new one?

Last response: in Laptops & Notebooks
Share
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 19, 2004 6:49:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and have
bought a 30 gig one

I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
software, configurations etc from the old to the new.

Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on e-bay with
some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy the
whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may need
to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
accessory now or method of doing this now.

What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover cable
and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it that
easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise my
adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted file
to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That pre-supposes
that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all I have
free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives

Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they can to
prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files which
cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I tried
to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc and
installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE off
the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created installation of
the OS

More about : transfer hdd

October 19, 2004 6:49:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:49:13 -0400, "Licensed to Quill"
<vintagepen@compuserve.nospam.com> wrote:

>I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and have
>bought a 30 gig one
>
>I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
>software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
>
>Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on e-bay with
>some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
>connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy the
>whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may need
>to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
>accessory now or method of doing this now.
>
>What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover cable
>and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it that
>easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise my
>adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted file
>to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That pre-supposes
>that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all I have
>free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
>
>Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they can to
>prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files which
>cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I tried
>to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc and
>installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE off
>the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created installation of
>the OS
>
When I upgraded my old Thinkpad (365XD model) from a 1 GB drive to a 6
GB one, I removed the drive, installed it in my desktop computer using
a cheap adapter I bought on ebay, then cloned the drive to a partition
on the desktop computer. Then replaced the 1 GB drive with the 6 GB
one, and cloned back to the new 6 GB drive. Worked like a charm, but a
pretty involved process.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 19, 2004 9:08:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

GREAT idea: DOesnt sound involved at all. I can probably even use Partition
Commander to copy the contents of the HDD to the new one with no worries as
to hidden or system or dat files

But where do I find the connector to connect the IDE connector to the laptop
IDE connector? How was it described on e-bay?


"Charlie" <invalid@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:D rpan0pq2gm961b6tu6c0uaoun8mauk8f4@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:49:13 -0400, "Licensed to Quill"
> <vintagepen@compuserve.nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and
>>have
>>bought a 30 gig one
>>
>>I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
>>software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
>>
>>Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on e-bay
>>with
>>some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
>>connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy the
>>whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may
>>need
>>to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
>>accessory now or method of doing this now.
>>
>>What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover cable
>>and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it that
>>easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise my
>>adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted
>>file
>>to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That pre-supposes
>>that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all I
>>have
>>free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
>>
>>Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they can
>>to
>>prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files
>>which
>>cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I tried
>>to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc and
>>installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE off
>>the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created installation of
>>the OS
>>
> When I upgraded my old Thinkpad (365XD model) from a 1 GB drive to a 6
> GB one, I removed the drive, installed it in my desktop computer using
> a cheap adapter I bought on ebay, then cloned the drive to a partition
> on the desktop computer. Then replaced the 1 GB drive with the 6 GB
> one, and cloned back to the new 6 GB drive. Worked like a charm, but a
> pretty involved process.
Related resources
October 19, 2004 9:08:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:08:24 -0400, "Maria Ripanykhazova"
<myfathersson@rcnexpungethisbit.net> wrote:

>GREAT idea: DOesnt sound involved at all. I can probably even use Partition
>Commander to copy the contents of the HDD to the new one with no worries as
>to hidden or system or dat files
>
>But where do I find the connector to connect the IDE connector to the laptop
>IDE connector? How was it described on e-bay?
>

enter a search for something like "2.5 to 3.5 HDD adapter" and you
should turn up several offered for about $3 + shipping. I think I paid
nearly $10 total, but mine include mounting rails, which I didn't use,
since this was just a temporary installation.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 20, 2004 6:50:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

First, you can't use XCopy, or just "copy" the files at all. I won't go
into all of the reasons why, but that won't work.

The preferred way to do this today is to use a disk drive imaging
program, the most popular are "Drive Image" or "Ghost". Drive Image was
from PowerQuest, but was bought by Symantec, which now owns both
programs (the appearance is that the surviving product will be Drive
Image but will be called Ghost and may have the Ghost user interface).

[Personally, I'd buy a copy of Drive Image 7 while you can still find one.]

Now as to how to use these, there are a number of options. One is to
mount both the old and new drives as the 2nd & 3rd IDE devices on a
desktop PC (with two adapters, about $5 each) and do a "live" drive to
drive copy. Another is save the image to some intermediate device,
computer or media and then restore it. If your computer has a burner,
this is straightforward with Drive Image.



Licensed to Quill wrote:
> I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and have
> bought a 30 gig one
>
> I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
> software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
>
> Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on e-bay with
> some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
> connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy the
> whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may need
> to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
> accessory now or method of doing this now.
>
> What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover cable
> and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it that
> easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise my
> adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted file
> to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That pre-supposes
> that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all I have
> free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
>
> Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they can to
> prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files which
> cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I tried
> to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc and
> installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE off
> the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created installation of
> the OS
>
>
October 20, 2004 6:50:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

To copy your HDD you can use not only "Ghost". There's program called
Drive backup from Paragon. It costs about $50, so you can save
$20(Ghost costs somthing about $70). The functionality of the drive
backup is the same (or even better). So, I recommend you to try it.
Best regards!


Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message news:<4175D38F.5070607@neo.rr.com>...
> First, you can't use XCopy, or just "copy" the files at all. I won't go
> into all of the reasons why, but that won't work.
>
> The preferred way to do this today is to use a disk drive imaging
> program, the most popular are "Drive Image" or "Ghost". Drive Image was
> from PowerQuest, but was bought by Symantec, which now owns both
> programs (the appearance is that the surviving product will be Drive
> Image but will be called Ghost and may have the Ghost user interface).
>
> [Personally, I'd buy a copy of Drive Image 7 while you can still find one.]
>
> Now as to how to use these, there are a number of options. One is to
> mount both the old and new drives as the 2nd & 3rd IDE devices on a
> desktop PC (with two adapters, about $5 each) and do a "live" drive to
> drive copy. Another is save the image to some intermediate device,
> computer or media and then restore it. If your computer has a burner,
> this is straightforward with Drive Image.
>
>
>
> Licensed to Quill wrote:
> > I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and have
> > bought a 30 gig one
> >
> > I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
> > software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
> >
> > Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on e-bay with
> > some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
> > connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy the
> > whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may need
> > to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
> > accessory now or method of doing this now.
> >
> > What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover cable
> > and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it that
> > easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise my
> > adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted file
> > to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That pre-supposes
> > that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all I have
> > free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
> >
> > Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they can to
> > prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files which
> > cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I tried
> > to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc and
> > installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE off
> > the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created installation of
> > the OS
> >
> >
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 20, 2004 12:53:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Someone tell me what I am not understanding about this: I did what you said
and found simple adapters for about a buck a throw. Admittedly they are in
Hong Kong (although the sellers aren't accidentally making shipping
uneconomical which is a phenomenon I have found recently quite often on
E-Bay) but not EVERYTHING which is made in China doesnt work and this is
just a simple pin-relocation adapter??

If I buy two of these, I can surely disconnect the original drive, connect
both, (if I can find a boot disc with Partition Commander, as recommended,
on it somewhere on www.bootdisc.com or a free one-use download?) , boot to
Partition Commander on their boot disc and copy the whole contents of one
drive to the other?

> enter a search for something like "2.5 to 3.5 HDD adapter" and you
> should turn up several offered for about $3 + shipping. I
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 20, 2004 12:53:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:53:18 -0400 "Licensed to Quill"
used 17 lines of text to write in newsgroup: comp.sys.laptops

>If I buy two of these, I can surely disconnect the original drive, connect
>both,

That's what I would do.

The Ultimate Boot Disc:

http://download.fluxxnet.com/applications/misc/Hirens.B...






-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 20, 2004 12:58:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I think the Partition Commander bootdisc idea was the best one but wasnt
there a thread here (or on comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage?) a year or so
ago which said that you could use xcopy with a suitably huge number of
switches to copy ALL files from one drive to another including hidden,
system and archive ones if you boot off a floppy?


"Billy" <miptman@mail.ru> wrote in message
news:90a36054.0410192242.1a09d438@posting.google.com...
> To copy your HDD you can use not only "Ghost". There's program called
> Drive backup from Paragon. It costs about $50, so you can save
> $20(Ghost costs somthing about $70). The functionality of the drive
> backup is the same (or even better). So, I recommend you to try it.
> Best regards!
>
>
> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<4175D38F.5070607@neo.rr.com>...
> > First, you can't use XCopy, or just "copy" the files at all. I won't go
> > into all of the reasons why, but that won't work.
> >
> > The preferred way to do this today is to use a disk drive imaging
> > program, the most popular are "Drive Image" or "Ghost". Drive Image was
> > from PowerQuest, but was bought by Symantec, which now owns both
> > programs (the appearance is that the surviving product will be Drive
> > Image but will be called Ghost and may have the Ghost user interface).
> >
> > [Personally, I'd buy a copy of Drive Image 7 while you can still find
one.]
> >
> > Now as to how to use these, there are a number of options. One is to
> > mount both the old and new drives as the 2nd & 3rd IDE devices on a
> > desktop PC (with two adapters, about $5 each) and do a "live" drive to
> > drive copy. Another is save the image to some intermediate device,
> > computer or media and then restore it. If your computer has a burner,
> > this is straightforward with Drive Image.
> >
> >
> >
> > Licensed to Quill wrote:
> > > I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and
have
> > > bought a 30 gig one
> > >
> > > I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
> > > software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
> > >
> > > Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on
e-bay with
> > > some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
> > > connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy
the
> > > whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may
need
> > > to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
> > > accessory now or method of doing this now.
> > >
> > > What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover
cable
> > > and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it
that
> > > easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise
my
> > > adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted
file
> > > to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That
pre-supposes
> > > that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all
I have
> > > free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
> > >
> > > Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they
can to
> > > prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files
which
> > > cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I
tried
> > > to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc
and
> > > installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE
off
> > > the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created
installation of
> > > the OS
> > >
> > >
October 20, 2004 1:17:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:53:18 -0400, "Licensed to Quill"
<vintagepen@compuserve.nospam.com> wrote:

>Someone tell me what I am not understanding about this: I did what you said
>and found simple adapters for about a buck a throw. Admittedly they are in
>Hong Kong (although the sellers aren't accidentally making shipping
>uneconomical which is a phenomenon I have found recently quite often on
>E-Bay) but not EVERYTHING which is made in China doesnt work and this is
>just a simple pin-relocation adapter??
>
>If I buy two of these, I can surely disconnect the original drive, connect
>both, (if I can find a boot disc with Partition Commander, as recommended,
>on it somewhere on www.bootdisc.com or a free one-use download?) , boot to
>Partition Commander on their boot disc and copy the whole contents of one
>drive to the other?
>
>> enter a search for something like "2.5 to 3.5 HDD adapter" and you
>> should turn up several offered for about $3 + shipping. I
>
Yes, that should also work. Actually, most laptops sold today are made
in China, so that's not necessarily a "bad thing".
October 20, 2004 1:22:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:58:07 -0400, "Licensed to Quill"
<vintagepen@compuserve.nospam.com> wrote:

>I think the Partition Commander bootdisc idea was the best one but wasnt
>there a thread here (or on comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage?) a year or so
>ago which said that you could use xcopy with a suitably huge number of
>switches to copy ALL files from one drive to another including hidden,
>system and archive ones if you boot off a floppy?
>
The comment "may" have been made about using xxcopy with the /clone
switch set, which is supposed to make a true clone of one drive to
another.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 20, 2004 5:14:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SIMPLY COPY THE FILES (with XCOPY or anything else).
You must use an "image" program. If you copy the files, the
correspondence between "short" filenames and "long" filenames can be
(usually will be) destroyed, with potentially catastrophic consequences.


Licensed to Quill wrote:

> I think the Partition Commander bootdisc idea was the best one but wasnt
> there a thread here (or on comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage?) a year or so
> ago which said that you could use xcopy with a suitably huge number of
> switches to copy ALL files from one drive to another including hidden,
> system and archive ones if you boot off a floppy?
>
>
> "Billy" <miptman@mail.ru> wrote in message
> news:90a36054.0410192242.1a09d438@posting.google.com...
>
>>To copy your HDD you can use not only "Ghost". There's program called
>>Drive backup from Paragon. It costs about $50, so you can save
>>$20(Ghost costs somthing about $70). The functionality of the drive
>>backup is the same (or even better). So, I recommend you to try it.
>>Best regards!
>>
>>
>>Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:<4175D38F.5070607@neo.rr.com>...
>
>>>First, you can't use XCopy, or just "copy" the files at all. I won't go
>>>into all of the reasons why, but that won't work.
>>>
>>>The preferred way to do this today is to use a disk drive imaging
>>>program, the most popular are "Drive Image" or "Ghost". Drive Image was
>>>from PowerQuest, but was bought by Symantec, which now owns both
>>>programs (the appearance is that the surviving product will be Drive
>>>Image but will be called Ghost and may have the Ghost user interface).
>>>
>>>[Personally, I'd buy a copy of Drive Image 7 while you can still find
>
> one.]
>
>>>Now as to how to use these, there are a number of options. One is to
>>>mount both the old and new drives as the 2nd & 3rd IDE devices on a
>>>desktop PC (with two adapters, about $5 each) and do a "live" drive to
>>>drive copy. Another is save the image to some intermediate device,
>>>computer or media and then restore it. If your computer has a burner,
>>>this is straightforward with Drive Image.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Licensed to Quill wrote:
>>>
>>>>I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and
>
> have
>
>>>>bought a 30 gig one
>>>>
>>>>I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
>>>>software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
>>>>
>>>>Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on
>
> e-bay with
>
>>>>some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
>>>>connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy
>
> the
>
>>>>whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may
>
> need
>
>>>>to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
>>>>accessory now or method of doing this now.
>>>>
>>>>What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover
>
> cable
>
>>>>and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it
>
> that
>
>>>>easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise
>
> my
>
>>>>adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted
>
> file
>
>>>>to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That
>
> pre-supposes
>
>>>>that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all
>
> I have
>
>>>>free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
>>>>
>>>>Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they
>
> can to
>
>>>>prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files
>
> which
>
>>>>cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I
>
> tried
>
>>>>to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc
>
> and
>
>>>>installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE
>
> off
>
>>>>the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created
>
> installation of
>
>>>>the OS
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 21, 2004 12:15:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:50:09 GMT, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:

>First, you can't use XCopy, or just "copy" the files at all. I won't go
>into all of the reasons why, but that won't work.
>
>The preferred way to do this today is to use a disk drive imaging
>program, the most popular are "Drive Image" or "Ghost". Drive Image was
>from PowerQuest, but was bought by Symantec, which now owns both
>programs (the appearance is that the surviving product will be Drive
>Image but will be called Ghost and may have the Ghost user interface).
>
>[Personally, I'd buy a copy of Drive Image 7 while you can still find one.]
>
>Now as to how to use these, there are a number of options. One is to
>mount both the old and new drives as the 2nd & 3rd IDE devices on a
>desktop PC (with two adapters, about $5 each) and do a "live" drive to
>drive copy. Another is save the image to some intermediate device,
>computer or media and then restore it. If your computer has a burner,
>this is straightforward with Drive Image.
>
>
>
>Licensed to Quill wrote:
>> I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and have
>> bought a 30 gig one
>>
>> I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
>> software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
>>
>> Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on e-bay with
>> some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
>> connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy the
>> whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may need
>> to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
>> accessory now or method of doing this now.
>>
>> What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover cable
>> and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it that
>> easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise my
>> adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted file
>> to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That pre-supposes
>> that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all I have
>> free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
>>
>> Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they can to
>> prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files which
>> cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I tried
>> to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc and
>> installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE off
>> the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created installation of
>> the OS
>>
>>

Strange... there were many comments about NOT using xcopy to
accomplish this. But just last weekend I did just that. I connected
a new 120GB drive to the cables of my CDROM drive then did an FDISK
followed by format D: /S which was then followed by using XCOPY to
copy from C:\*.* to D:\ with a few switches (/e, etc).
Upon completion I unplugged the C: drive, put the master jumper on the
new drive, connected it to where the C: drive was, reconnected my
CDROM drive, rebooted and now I am writing this response.

Go figure... I didn't know what I had done could be done!

B
October 21, 2004 9:50:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:15:57 +0000, Bob_M
<r.mariotti@financialdatacorp.com> wrote:

<snip>

>
>Strange... there were many comments about NOT using xcopy to
>accomplish this. But just last weekend I did just that. I connected
>a new 120GB drive to the cables of my CDROM drive then did an FDISK
>followed by format D: /S which was then followed by using XCOPY to
>copy from C:\*.* to D:\ with a few switches (/e, etc).
>Upon completion I unplugged the C: drive, put the master jumper on the
>new drive, connected it to where the C: drive was, reconnected my
>CDROM drive, rebooted and now I am writing this response.
>
>Go figure... I didn't know what I had done could be done!
>
>B

Yes, it "works" but the problem is that some files can be renamed,
which can cause untended consequences.
October 21, 2004 8:38:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Licensed to Quill wrote:
> I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and have
> bought a 30 gig one
>
> I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
> software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
>
> Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on e-bay with
> some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
> connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy the
> whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may need
> to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
> accessory now or method of doing this now.
>
> What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover cable
> and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it that
> easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise my
> adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted file
> to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That pre-supposes
> that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all I have
> free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
>
> Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they can to
> prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files which
> cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I tried
> to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc and
> installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE off
> the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created installation of
> the OS
>
>
Another option that I haven't seen mentioned is to get one of those
external USB2 enclosures that can be used for either a 5 1/4 inch DVD or
a 3 1/2 inch hard drive. You would still need a 2.5 to 3.5 inch
adapter. You would just install the new hard drive in the USB enclosure
and clone the old hard drive to the new hard drive. I know Norton Ghost
will clone to one of these USB devices. Addonics has a USB2 enclosure
for about $45. One nice thing about this approach is that the USB
enclosure can be used to add a DVD or HD to any computer that has a USB2
port.

jimbo
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 22, 2004 1:43:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Using file copy programs instead of imaging programs will:

A. Sometimes work
B. Sometimes seem to work (but some things are "broken")
C. Sometimes not even boot.

The problem is that if you have two files in the same folder:

Microsoft Internet Explorer.EXE with short name MICROS~1.EXE
and
Microsoft Word.EXE with short name MICROS~2.EXE

Then, after the file copy, you MAY end up with:

Microsoft Internet Explorer.EXE with short name MICROS~2.EXE
and
Microsoft Word.EXE with short name MICROS~1.EXE

This can happen or not happen, seemingly at random (it's not really at
random, the outcome is perfectly predictable, but not at all obvious to
anyone who doesn't understand the internals of the file system).




Bob_M wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:50:09 GMT, Barry Watzman
> <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>First, you can't use XCopy, or just "copy" the files at all. I won't go
>>into all of the reasons why, but that won't work.
>>
>>The preferred way to do this today is to use a disk drive imaging
>>program, the most popular are "Drive Image" or "Ghost". Drive Image was
>
>>from PowerQuest, but was bought by Symantec, which now owns both
>
>>programs (the appearance is that the surviving product will be Drive
>>Image but will be called Ghost and may have the Ghost user interface).
>>
>>[Personally, I'd buy a copy of Drive Image 7 while you can still find one.]
>>
>>Now as to how to use these, there are a number of options. One is to
>>mount both the old and new drives as the 2nd & 3rd IDE devices on a
>>desktop PC (with two adapters, about $5 each) and do a "live" drive to
>>drive copy. Another is save the image to some intermediate device,
>>computer or media and then restore it. If your computer has a burner,
>>this is straightforward with Drive Image.
>>
>>
>>
>>Licensed to Quill wrote:
>>
>>>I need to upgrade my 12 gig hard drive which has run out of space and have
>>>bought a 30 gig one
>>>
>>>I need to transfer the whole shooting match lock stock and barrel OS,
>>>software, configurations etc from the old to the new.
>>>
>>>Is there a standard way of doing this? I once saw a flat cable on e-bay with
>>>some type of connetor for my Portege at one end and a laptop style IDE
>>>connector at the other end which did this (I presume you just xcopy the
>>>whole drive from one to another having booted off a floppy but you may need
>>>to un-hide all system files?) but I cant find any reference to such an
>>>accessory now or method of doing this now.
>>>
>>>What does anyone advise or is it easier to get an ethernet crossover cable
>>>and boot off a knoppix CD which recognises both drives? Or isnt it that
>>>easy? I have Norton Ghost but NEVER managed to get it to recognise my
>>>adaptec PC card and was only ever able to use it by saving the ghosted file
>>>to the hard drive and then copying it to a backup drive. That pre-supposes
>>>that you have half the drive free (which I haven't got). In fact all I have
>>>free is a few 2 gig Jaz drives
>>>
>>>Is this possible or have sufficient manufacturers done whatever they can to
>>>prevent people doing this by putting all sorts of things in .dat files which
>>>cant be copied? I can see all sorts of issues which would arise if I tried
>>>to do this by putting the blank drive in, booting off the restore disc and
>>>installing windows 2000 again and then trying to copy everything ELSE off
>>>the old hard drive onto CDs and then onto the just created installation of
>>>the OS
>>>
>>>
>
>
> Strange... there were many comments about NOT using xcopy to
> accomplish this. But just last weekend I did just that. I connected
> a new 120GB drive to the cables of my CDROM drive then did an FDISK
> followed by format D: /S which was then followed by using XCOPY to
> copy from C:\*.* to D:\ with a few switches (/e, etc).
> Upon completion I unplugged the C: drive, put the master jumper on the
> new drive, connected it to where the C: drive was, reconnected my
> CDROM drive, rebooted and now I am writing this response.
>
> Go figure... I didn't know what I had done could be done!
>
> B
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 22, 2004 8:17:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2tqt13F22un5iU3@uni-berlin.de...
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> > If you use XCOPY you are likely to screw up the system.
>
> > When you copy files, the correspondance of long filename to short (8.3)
> > filename is lost at random, and this matters to many programs and
> > applications, sometimes even to Windows itself.
>
> > You need to use an imaging program, not a file copy program.
>
> Actually a file copy programm should work, as long as it keeps
> Filenames and attributes. I know because I do backups with a file
> archiveing software, namely GNU-"tar". Works well even for Windows
> XP system partitions. Of course bootability with the XP boot-loader
> is lost, but that can be re-gained with a rescue-floppy.
>
> If xcopy can do exact copies even with long filenames, I see no
> reason why it should not work.

http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy03.htm

Big Snip.
October 22, 2004 12:36:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

It is also critical to know the difference between DOS box (in Windows) and
system booted in DOS mode. XXCOPY success to keep same shorfilenames relies
on Win32 file I/O API which implicates use of DOS box. System booted with
DOS cannot do that.
Also, there is a difference in shortfilenames implementation between
Win95/98 and NT/2K/XP:
http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy08.htm

While many systems will function properly after such disk cloning (XCOPY or
XXCOPY) was performed, it is NOT a fullproof method!

Use proper and proven disk imaging program to clone/image disk drives.

"Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote in message
news:10nhr16lehr5he2@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2tqt13F22un5iU3@uni-berlin.de...
> > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Barry Watzman
> <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> > > If you use XCOPY you are likely to screw up the system.
> >
> > > When you copy files, the correspondance of long filename to short
(8.3)
> > > filename is lost at random, and this matters to many programs and
> > > applications, sometimes even to Windows itself.
> >
> > > You need to use an imaging program, not a file copy program.
> >
> > Actually a file copy programm should work, as long as it keeps
> > Filenames and attributes. I know because I do backups with a file
> > archiveing software, namely GNU-"tar". Works well even for Windows
> > XP system partitions. Of course bootability with the XP boot-loader
> > is lost, but that can be re-gained with a rescue-floppy.
> >
> > If xcopy can do exact copies even with long filenames, I see no
> > reason why it should not work.
>
> http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy03.htm
>
> Big Snip.
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 22, 2004 9:32:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Dale Benjamin <daleb@k-online.com> wrote:

> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2tqt13F22un5iU3@uni-berlin.de...
>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Barry Watzman
> <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>> > If you use XCOPY you are likely to screw up the system.
>>
>> > When you copy files, the correspondance of long filename to short (8.3)
>> > filename is lost at random, and this matters to many programs and
>> > applications, sometimes even to Windows itself.
>>
>> > You need to use an imaging program, not a file copy program.
>>
>> Actually a file copy programm should work, as long as it keeps
>> Filenames and attributes. I know because I do backups with a file
>> archiveing software, namely GNU-"tar". Works well even for Windows
>> XP system partitions. Of course bootability with the XP boot-loader
>> is lost, but that can be re-gained with a rescue-floppy.
>>
>> If xcopy can do exact copies even with long filenames, I see no
>> reason why it should not work.

> http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy03.htm

I should have known MS would screw xcopy up. xxcopy does work,
I take it?

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 22, 2004 9:34:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> It is also critical to know the difference between DOS box (in Windows) and
> system booted in DOS mode. XXCOPY success to keep same shorfilenames relies
> on Win32 file I/O API which implicates use of DOS box. System booted with
> DOS cannot do that.
> Also, there is a difference in shortfilenames implementation between
> Win95/98 and NT/2K/XP:
> http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy08.htm

> While many systems will function properly after such disk cloning (XCOPY or
> XXCOPY) was performed, it is NOT a fullproof method!

> Use proper and proven disk imaging program to clone/image disk drives.

Usinf Linux and 'tar' works well, since it will copy by (long) name,
as long as you mount the partitions with type "vfat". The basic
problem here is that MS did not manage to keep the details
of the longer names from the applications. Another consequence
of short-sighted 8.3 names. (Due to CM/P I think?)

Arno


> "Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote in message
> news:10nhr16lehr5he2@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2tqt13F22un5iU3@uni-berlin.de...
>> > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Barry Watzman
>> <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>> > > If you use XCOPY you are likely to screw up the system.
>> >
>> > > When you copy files, the correspondance of long filename to short
> (8.3)
>> > > filename is lost at random, and this matters to many programs and
>> > > applications, sometimes even to Windows itself.
>> >
>> > > You need to use an imaging program, not a file copy program.
>> >
>> > Actually a file copy programm should work, as long as it keeps
>> > Filenames and attributes. I know because I do backups with a file
>> > archiveing software, namely GNU-"tar". Works well even for Windows
>> > XP system partitions. Of course bootability with the XP boot-loader
>> > is lost, but that can be re-gained with a rescue-floppy.
>> >
>> > If xcopy can do exact copies even with long filenames, I see no
>> > reason why it should not work.
>>
>> http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy03.htm
>>
>> Big Snip.
>>
>>



--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
October 22, 2004 9:34:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> The basic problem here is that MS did not manage to keep the details of
the longer names from the applications.

And that problem has been addressed by disk imaging software by keeping
those file structures intact.

Can you please post your "Linux tar" based procedure to clone/image disks?
I'm curious if it is easier than what I'm doing right now. Thanks.

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2tsulfF24cg2sU3@uni-berlin.de...
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > It is also critical to know the difference between DOS box (in Windows)
and
> > system booted in DOS mode. XXCOPY success to keep same shorfilenames
relies
> > on Win32 file I/O API which implicates use of DOS box. System booted
with
> > DOS cannot do that.
> > Also, there is a difference in shortfilenames implementation between
> > Win95/98 and NT/2K/XP:
> > http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy08.htm
>
> > While many systems will function properly after such disk cloning (XCOPY
or
> > XXCOPY) was performed, it is NOT a fullproof method!
>
> > Use proper and proven disk imaging program to clone/image disk drives.
>
> Usinf Linux and 'tar' works well, since it will copy by (long) name,
> as long as you mount the partitions with type "vfat". The basic
> problem here is that MS did not manage to keep the details
> of the longer names from the applications. Another consequence
> of short-sighted 8.3 names. (Due to CM/P I think?)
>
> Arno
>
>
> > "Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote in message
> > news:10nhr16lehr5he2@corp.supernews.com...
> >>
> >> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >> news:2tqt13F22un5iU3@uni-berlin.de...
> >> > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Barry Watzman
> >> <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> >> > > If you use XCOPY you are likely to screw up the system.
> >> >
> >> > > When you copy files, the correspondance of long filename to short
> > (8.3)
> >> > > filename is lost at random, and this matters to many programs and
> >> > > applications, sometimes even to Windows itself.
> >> >
> >> > > You need to use an imaging program, not a file copy program.
> >> >
> >> > Actually a file copy programm should work, as long as it keeps
> >> > Filenames and attributes. I know because I do backups with a file
> >> > archiveing software, namely GNU-"tar". Works well even for Windows
> >> > XP system partitions. Of course bootability with the XP boot-loader
> >> > is lost, but that can be re-gained with a rescue-floppy.
> >> >
> >> > If xcopy can do exact copies even with long filenames, I see no
> >> > reason why it should not work.
> >>
> >> http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy03.htm
> >>
> >> Big Snip.
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
> GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 22, 2004 9:34:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is above
your head.

Why don't you hang out in the comp*linux groups will all the others?

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2tsulfF24cg2sU3@uni-berlin.de...
>
> > While many systems will function properly after such disk cloning (XCOPY
or
> > XXCOPY) was performed, it is NOT a fullproof method!
>
> > Use proper and proven disk imaging program to clone/image disk drives.
>
> Usinf Linux and 'tar' works well, since it will copy by (long) name,
> as long as you mount the partitions with type "vfat". The basic
> problem here is that MS did not manage to keep the details
> of the longer names from the applications. Another consequence
> of short-sighted 8.3 names. (Due to CM/P I think?)
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 3:53:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

What am I missing here? Is it as complicated and expensive as everyone
mentions?

I have bought three 2.5 to 3.5 adapters on eBay for virtually nothing.

I will replace the drive in the desktop with one laptop drive and have the
second on the secondary chain. Boot into DOS from a Partition Commander boot
disc and copy the whole drive to the new drive? What is the problem with
this? With all these complications being suggested, why has no one commented
on this suggestion yet? It is surely obvious that you cant copy operating
system files while they are running/being actually used?? But surely the
most I MAY have to do is to boot to the BIOS and have the drives recognized
as to cylinders, sectors and heads? Or maybe not? I have never has much
success with xxcopy but if that doesn't work, I may try again with an xxcopy
bootdisc

SOMEONE tell me what is wrong with the Partition Commander copy option
(before the adapters get here from Hong Kong)

MR
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 5:07:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
> As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is above
> your head.

What are you talking about exactly? MS lack of backward compatibility
options between vfat and fat? It shouldn't make much difference since
he is copying from vfat to vfat, but if you mean that the source vfat
may have what appear to be duplicate entries due to there being two
different ways of representing the same file names in vfat, then that's
the source vfat's problem! Or are you thinking about MS sometimes
constructing the same short file name from two different long ones.
Shrug. Whatever - the target vfat will have the same layout as the
source vfat, for good or for bad.

No - the MS copying problem comes from MS having done something
peculiar to their o/s that makes copying an executable while it is
being executed fail. Apparently they map the executables pages in
memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap, and that goes on
to create more problems, so they just makes copies fail on "busy"
executables.

At least, that is what I hear, or adduce from the yells and shrieks of
MS users arund the place. I have had no close direct experience of MS
systems for at least ten years, myself (phew!).

Peter
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 5:08:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb@lab.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
news:ffgo42-ovq.ln1@triangulo.it.uc3m.es...
> Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
> > As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is
above
> > your head.
>
> What are you talking about exactly?

I am talking about arno the clueless troll, who does not know Windows yet
feels he can talk about it because he uses Linux.

> MS lack of backward compatibility
> options between vfat and fat? It shouldn't make much difference since
> he is copying from vfat to vfat, but if you mean that the source vfat
> may have what appear to be duplicate entries due to there being two
> different ways of representing the same file names in vfat, then that's
> the source vfat's problem! Or are you thinking about MS sometimes
> constructing the same short file name from two different long ones.
> Shrug. Whatever - the target vfat will have the same layout as the
> source vfat, for good or for bad.
>
You are as clueless as arnie. The problem is xcopy and others preserve only
the LFN, while some software refers to the SFN.

> No - the MS copying problem comes from MS having done something
> peculiar to their o/s that makes copying an executable while it is
> being executed fail. Apparently they map the executables pages in
> memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap, and that goes on
> to create more problems, so they just makes copies fail on "busy"
> executables.
>
Don't post while stoned.

> At least, that is what I hear, or adduce from the yells and shrieks of
> MS users arund the place. I have had no close direct experience of MS
> systems for at least ten years, myself (phew!).
>
Take your ritalin.

> Peter
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 7:54:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2tsuh2F24cg2sU2@uni-berlin.de...
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Dale Benjamin <daleb@k-online.com>
wrote:
>
> > "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:2tqt13F22un5iU3@uni-berlin.de...
> >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Barry Watzman
> > <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> >> > If you use XCOPY you are likely to screw up the system.
> >>
> >> > When you copy files, the correspondance of long filename to short
(8.3)
> >> > filename is lost at random, and this matters to many programs and
> >> > applications, sometimes even to Windows itself.
> >>
> >> > You need to use an imaging program, not a file copy program.
> >>
> >> Actually a file copy programm should work, as long as it keeps
> >> Filenames and attributes. I know because I do backups with a file
> >> archiveing software, namely GNU-"tar". Works well even for Windows
> >> XP system partitions. Of course bootability with the XP boot-loader
> >> is lost, but that can be re-gained with a rescue-floppy.
> >>
> >> If xcopy can do exact copies even with long filenames, I see no
> >> reason why it should not work.
>
> > http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy03.htm
>
> I should have known MS would screw xcopy up. xxcopy does work,
> I take it?

Yes, better than Linux tar. The problem I run into concerns Norton
AntiVirus Auto Protect, although I untar OK and it boots fine, NAVAP didn't
load. The error message had a URL for Symantec Norton which indicates
they're aware of such a problem but have no solution.

With xxcopy, the activation for the product gets lost and the program has
to activated again, which is only a minute. There were a few files that
xxcopy had a problem with.

Another approach I tried was an image program, named Active@ Disk Image
v.2.0, Copyright © 1998-2004 Active@ Data Recovery Software, Lsoft
Technologies Inc. ADI produces a set of 2 gigabyte files which contain the
image, the program can also restore them. I made an image of my WinMe boot
partition from my 80 gig drive and restored it to my 30 gig drive a few
times, no problems with NAVAP. But in each case the new partition
disappeared within a few hours use. I was anticipating something like
that, the ADI program doesn't seem to be designed to really transfer
partitions from one drive to another. Now that I have a spare boot
partition for WinMe, I can test the restore to the original drive.

I saw comments in the thread about possibly using cp or dd, I maybe should
also give that a try, I have redhat9.

But in direct reply to your question, I don't think it's quite the case
that MS screwed up xcopy, it's worse. It seems that unless the 8.3
filename is copied along with the rest of the directory entry ( which ONLY
xxcopy does ), then the operating system reassigns 8.3 filenames, which may
not correspond to those on the source drive. This creates problems when
the 8.3 filename is stored in the Windows Registry, an inappropriate file
may be used instead.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 8:24:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> The basic problem here is that MS did not manage to keep the details of
> the longer names from the applications.

> And that problem has been addressed by disk imaging software by keeping
> those file structures intact.

> Can you please post your "Linux tar" based procedure to clone/image disks?
> I'm curious if it is easier than what I'm doing right now. Thanks.

Pretty simple if you only want files. i.e. partition contents:

1. Put both disks into one sytem. (Advanced usage: Two systems
on the same network. The system with the empty disk can be
booted with Knoppix. The first one too, if no Linux is on the
disk. I have used this several times to clone a working
installation to an "empty" PC.)

2. Boot Linux. If none on system or you are careful, use
e.g. Knoppix.

3. Create target partitions. Best experiences were with
Linux "fdisk".

4. Create filesystem on target partitons. If you use NTFS
you might get a problem here. Linux does read it by now, but
to write it correctly is a bit of a problem.
If you do not have NTFS, or do not mind imaging to FAT32
first, do a "mkdosfs -f 32 <targetpartition>" to create
the targets.

5. Mount source disk, e.g. to /mnt1. Make sure to mount as
"vfat" if fat32.

6. Mount destination disk, e.g. to /mnt2. Make sure to
mount as "vfat".

7. 'cd' to root directory of source disk.

8. Copy:
tar cf - * | (cd /mnt2; tar xf -)
This creates a tar-archive of the source disk and
writes it to STDOUT. The part after the '|' reads
from STDIN and unpacks the archive. The 'cd' ensures
that the archive is unpacked on the target drive.

Variant over the net:

tar cf - * | ssh root@target "(cd /mnt2; tar xf -)"

or the other way round:

ssh root@source "cd /mnt1; tar cf - *" | (cd /mnt2; tar xf -)

Other possibilities exist.

The same can be used to create/unpack backup copies.
Just use the first or second part of the command and
give a filename instead of the '-' as target/source.
Add a 'z' to the options ('cf') to get gzip compression.
Add a 'j' to get bzip2 compression. Add a 'v' to
get verbose operation.

As a rule I also do a verify:

9. Unmount the target and the source and mount them again
(This ensures no date is kept in buffers.)
10. Run

tar cf - * | (cd /mnt2; tar df -)

as above. Missing and changed files will be listed.
Works also over the net.

If you just want to copy a a partition or whole disk in binary
mode you can do

dd_rescue source destination

(gives nice progress output) or

cat source > destination

or over the network

cat source | ssh root@target "cat > destination"

No resizing with this and empty space is also copied.
I recently copied an original XP installation on
a notebook with this. Resizing with PM afterwards
is the fastest way.

Apart from the not so satisfactory support for NTFS (don't know what
the latest state is on that, I don't use NTFS.) I find that Linux
standard tools are completely adequate to backup and copy an XP
installation.

If you copy XP this way, you need a recovery
floppy afterwards to make it bootable again. Also remember
to mark the "c:" partition as "active" with fdisk.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 8:27:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
> As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is above
> your head.

> Why don't you hang out in the comp*linux groups will all the others?

Since there are people interested in professional tools here and
since I do not care bout your opinion?

Arno

> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2tsulfF24cg2sU3@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> > While many systems will function properly after such disk cloning (XCOPY
> or
>> > XXCOPY) was performed, it is NOT a fullproof method!
>>
>> > Use proper and proven disk imaging program to clone/image disk drives.
>>
>> Usinf Linux and 'tar' works well, since it will copy by (long) name,
>> as long as you mount the partitions with type "vfat". The basic
>> problem here is that MS did not manage to keep the details
>> of the longer names from the applications. Another consequence
>> of short-sighted 8.3 names. (Due to CM/P I think?)
>>


--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 8:32:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Peter T. Breuer <ptb@lab.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
> Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
>> As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is above
>> your head.

> What are you talking about exactly? MS lack of backward compatibility
> options between vfat and fat? It shouldn't make much difference since
> he is copying from vfat to vfat, but if you mean that the source vfat
> may have what appear to be duplicate entries due to there being two
> different ways of representing the same file names in vfat, then that's
> the source vfat's problem! Or are you thinking about MS sometimes
> constructing the same short file name from two different long ones.
> Shrug. Whatever - the target vfat will have the same layout as the
> source vfat, for good or for bad.

And that is what copying implies.

> No - the MS copying problem comes from MS having done something
> peculiar to their o/s that makes copying an executable while it is
> being executed fail. Apparently they map the executables pages in
> memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap, and that goes on
> to create more problems, so they just makes copies fail on "busy"
> executables.

LOL! And how stupid is this?

> At least, that is what I hear, or adduce from the yells and shrieks of
> MS users arund the place. I have had no close direct experience of MS
> systems for at least ten years, myself (phew!).

What, another non-MS user here?
Eric must be foaming at the mounth! ;-)==)

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
October 23, 2004 10:41:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Maria Ripanykhazova" <myfathersson@rcnexpungethisbit.net> wrote in message
news:o 9idnSyli-wqSOTcRVn-pQ@rcn.net...
> What am I missing here? Is it as complicated and expensive as everyone
> mentions?
>
> I have bought three 2.5 to 3.5 adapters on eBay for virtually nothing.
>
> I will replace the drive in the desktop with one laptop drive and have the
> second on the secondary chain. Boot into DOS from a Partition Commander
> boot disc and copy the whole drive to the new drive? What is the problem
> with this? With all these complications being suggested, why has no one
> commented on this suggestion yet? It is surely obvious that you cant copy
> operating system files while they are running/being actually used?? But
> surely the most I MAY have to do is to boot to the BIOS and have the
> drives recognized as to cylinders, sectors and heads? Or maybe not? I
> have never has much success with xxcopy but if that doesn't work, I may
> try again with an xxcopy bootdisc
>
> SOMEONE tell me what is wrong with the Partition Commander copy option
> (before the adapters get here from Hong Kong)
>
> MR

Wow this turned into quite a thread....
I just replaced the boot harddrives in my two desktops with new Maxtor
drives. Maxtor includes a free software program ( Maxblast) on CD that does
a complete copy procedure from the old disk to the new disk directly from
Windows ( using XP on both machines). I transferred the drives for both
machines in about an hour to the new drives without any issues. I know other
drives manufacturers have similar utilities with their drives...apparently
the manufacturers of notebook drives don't provide the same ?
Bob
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 12:04:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb@lab.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
> news:ffgo42-ovq.ln1@triangulo.it.uc3m.es...
> > Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
> > > As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is
> above
> > > your head.
> >
> > What are you talking about exactly?
>
> I am talking about arno the clueless troll, who does not know Windows yet
> feels he can talk about it because he uses Linux.

Oh, I see. That explains it all.

> > MS lack of backward compatibility
> > options between vfat and fat? It shouldn't make much difference since
> > he is copying from vfat to vfat, but if you mean that the source vfat
> > may have what appear to be duplicate entries due to there being two
> > different ways of representing the same file names in vfat, then that's
> > the source vfat's problem! Or are you thinking about MS sometimes
> > constructing the same short file name from two different long ones.
> > Shrug. Whatever - the target vfat will have the same layout as the
> > source vfat, for good or for bad.
> >
> You are as clueless as arnie. The problem is xcopy and others preserve only
> the LFN, while some software refers to the SFN.

"xcopy", like any application, has no say in what names it "preserves"
or not. It simply makes a call to the o/s to open a new file with a
given name. That name is got by linear increment through the dirents
structures from a directory listing call. The application is not
involved - the o/s is. So use an o/s that does the right thing. Who
said anything about "xcopy" or windows anyway ? I was commenting on
"tar" working in linux to copy a vfat source to a vfat target. Of
course it does.


> > No - the MS copying problem comes from MS having done something
> > peculiar to their o/s that makes copying an executable while it is
> > being executed fail. Apparently they map the executables pages in
> > memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap, and that goes on
> > to create more problems, so they just makes copies fail on "busy"
> > executables.
> >
> Don't post while stoned.

I beg your pardon?

> > At least, that is what I hear, or adduce from the yells and shrieks of
> > MS users arund the place. I have had no close direct experience of MS
> > systems for at least ten years, myself (phew!).
> >
> Take your ritalin.

Would you mind explaining what "ritalin" is and why you think I should
take it, whatever it is?

Peter
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 1:04:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb@lab.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message news:bs8p42-sg6.ln1@triangulo.it.uc3m.es
> Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
> > "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb@lab.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
> > news:ffgo42-ovq.ln1@triangulo.it.uc3m.es...
> > > Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
> > > > As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is above
> > > > your head.
> > >
> > > What are you talking about exactly?
> >
> > I am talking about arno the clueless troll, who does not know Windows yet
> > feels he can talk about it because he uses Linux.
>
> Oh, I see. That explains it all.

Pretty much, yes.

>
> > > MS lack of backward compatibility
> > > options between vfat and fat? It shouldn't make much difference since
> > > he is copying from vfat to vfat, but if you mean that the source vfat
> > > may have what appear to be duplicate entries due to there being two
> > > different ways of representing the same file names in vfat, then that's
> > > the source vfat's problem! Or are you thinking about MS sometimes
> > > constructing the same short file name from two different long ones.
> > > Shrug. Whatever - the target vfat will have the same layout as the
> > > source vfat, for good or for bad.
> > >
> > You are as clueless as arnie. The problem is xcopy and others preserve only
> > the LFN, while some software refers to the SFN.
>
> "xcopy", like any application, has no say in what names it "preserves"
> or not. It simply makes a call to the o/s to open a new file with a
> given name. That name is got by linear increment through the dirents
> structures from a directory listing call. The application is not
> involved - the o/s is. So use an o/s that does the right thing.

It does.
The problem is with the applications that refer to the SFN in the registry.

> Who said anything about "xcopy" or windows anyway ?

The subject as explained through OP's post. Apparently he has W2k

> I was commenting on "tar" working in linux to copy a vfat source to a vfat target.
> Of course it does.

And so does anything else. The problem is what does it do with the SFN.

>
>
> > > No - the MS copying problem comes from MS having done something
> > > peculiar to their o/s that makes copying an executable while it is
> > > being executed fail. Apparently they map the executables pages in
> > > memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap, and that goes on
> > > to create more problems, so they just makes copies fail on "busy"
> > > executables.
> > >
> > Don't post while stoned.
>
> I beg your pardon?

Read your own post?

>
> > > At least, that is what I hear, or adduce from the yells and shrieks of
> > > MS users arund the place. I have had no close direct experience of MS
> > > systems for at least ten years, myself (phew!).
> > >
> > Take your ritalin.
>
> Would you mind explaining what "ritalin" is and why you think I should
> take it, whatever it is?

Know Google?

>
> Peter
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 1:15:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:
....snip...
> Since there are people interested in professional tools here and
> since I do not care bout your opinion?
> Arno

<VBG>
Your 'Charm School' certificate still stands you in good stead.

BTW ... another good solution to the 'XP clone' problem.
?Tried? 'XXClone' ... Kahn's solution, a 'beta' last I knew ??? ...

Qed.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 5:17:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

....
> Wow this turned into quite a thread....
> I just replaced the boot harddrives in my two desktops with new Maxtor
> drives. Maxtor includes a free software program ( Maxblast) on CD that
> does a complete copy procedure from the old disk to the new disk directly
> from Windows ( using XP on both machines). I transferred the drives for
> both machines in about an hour to the new drives without any issues. I
> know other drives manufacturers have similar utilities with their
> drives...apparently the manufacturers of notebook drives don't provide the
> same ?
> Bob
>
The drive makers don't, but there are several enclosures like E-Z GIG from
Apricorn that come with decent software to clone a drive. You buy the 2nd
drive separately, then buy their enclosure, which has either USB 2 or
PC-Card interface. You put the new drive in the enclosure, run the software
to copy the drive, then you switch the 2 drives. Now you have the new drive
in the laptop and if you want, the old drive in the enclosure, which can be
re-formatted and used for extra storage.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 5:36:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Dale Benjamin <daleb@k-online.com> wrote:
> Yes, better than Linux tar. The problem I run into concerns Norton
> AntiVirus Auto Protect, although I untar OK and it boots fine, NAVAP didn't
> load. The error message had a URL for Symantec Norton which indicates

That's likely because it checks the inode number on its licence file,
or some other hidden characteristic of it. You probably couldn't copy
the licence file and then replace the original with the copy.

> they're aware of such a problem but have no solution.

Yes they do - cease checking the inode numbers on their files. Or cease
checking whatever it is they do check that changes.

> With xxcopy, the activation for the product gets lost and the program has
> to activated again, which is only a minute. There were a few files that
> xxcopy had a problem with.

> Another approach I tried was an image program, named Active@ Disk Image

One doesn't need an "approach", precisely! One just needs an operating
system that hasn't had copying messed up in various ways. Honestly, if
I had a penny for every windows user that goes to unix and asks "how do
I clone my system", without even thinking that "copy" DOES copy, just
like the name says ...

> I saw comments in the thread about possibly using cp or dd, I maybe should
> also give that a try, I have redhat9.

Believe it or not, "cp" works! Option -a is probably what you want
(recursive descent, preserve ownership, perms, etc.). Or you can use
tar in the classical manner. Or rsync. Etc. If you really insist on
copying the block device BELOW the file system as well, complete with
spaces between file data and all, then you might want to use dd on the
block device itself. But dd is just a simplified cp with an adjustable
blocksize, so you could just use cp ...

> But in direct reply to your question, I don't think it's quite the case
> that MS screwed up xcopy, it's worse. It seems that unless the 8.3
> filename is copied along with the rest of the directory entry ( which ONLY
> xxcopy does ), then the operating system reassigns 8.3 filenames, which may

This is the case, as far as I recall: it invents short names to go
along with the long ones, and they may clash (AFAIR under obscure
conditions), or be important in themselves, and so on.

> not correspond to those on the source drive. This creates problems when
> the 8.3 filename is stored in the Windows Registry, an inappropriate file

That mention of "the registry" puzzled me. What the heck would a FS be
doing keeping info in a file? But now you explain it - that's not the
way it is, rather the registry contains names of file, and those names are
messed up by MS auto-incompatiblities when not copying all the
hidden filesystem data, but just the data presented to the user ..
Well, the registry may also contain inode numbers. In fact, it probably
does in the case of licences.

> may be used instead.

Peter
October 23, 2004 5:51:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Thank you Arno for your detailed answer.

No, I don't "only want files"; I want to clone a whole disk (from old disk
to a new disk).
That's what I call a "clone". Otherwise I would use "transfer files" or
"copy files" terms.

And NTFS seems to be a most typical file system installed on my old disk.
In those cases your instructions are not really useful...(sorry to say
that).

For curiosity, did you try to find out what are SFNs generated by your
procedure with tar and dd methods? I suspect that tar might fail in some
cases, while dd might be always right (i.e. preserve original SFN). But,
again, that applies to VFAT (FATx) only.

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2tu4orF235l4qU1@uni-berlin.de...
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> The basic problem here is that MS did not manage to keep the details of
> > the longer names from the applications.
>
> > And that problem has been addressed by disk imaging software by keeping
> > those file structures intact.
>
> > Can you please post your "Linux tar" based procedure to clone/image
disks?
> > I'm curious if it is easier than what I'm doing right now. Thanks.
>
> Pretty simple if you only want files. i.e. partition contents:
>
> 1. Put both disks into one sytem. (Advanced usage: Two systems
> on the same network. The system with the empty disk can be
> booted with Knoppix. The first one too, if no Linux is on the
> disk. I have used this several times to clone a working
> installation to an "empty" PC.)
>
> 2. Boot Linux. If none on system or you are careful, use
> e.g. Knoppix.
>
> 3. Create target partitions. Best experiences were with
> Linux "fdisk".
>
> 4. Create filesystem on target partitons. If you use NTFS
> you might get a problem here. Linux does read it by now, but
> to write it correctly is a bit of a problem.
> If you do not have NTFS, or do not mind imaging to FAT32
> first, do a "mkdosfs -f 32 <targetpartition>" to create
> the targets.
>
> 5. Mount source disk, e.g. to /mnt1. Make sure to mount as
> "vfat" if fat32.
>
> 6. Mount destination disk, e.g. to /mnt2. Make sure to
> mount as "vfat".
>
> 7. 'cd' to root directory of source disk.
>
> 8. Copy:
> tar cf - * | (cd /mnt2; tar xf -)
> This creates a tar-archive of the source disk and
> writes it to STDOUT. The part after the '|' reads
> from STDIN and unpacks the archive. The 'cd' ensures
> that the archive is unpacked on the target drive.
>
> Variant over the net:
>
> tar cf - * | ssh root@target "(cd /mnt2; tar xf -)"
>
> or the other way round:
>
> ssh root@source "cd /mnt1; tar cf - *" | (cd /mnt2; tar xf -)
>
> Other possibilities exist.
>
> The same can be used to create/unpack backup copies.
> Just use the first or second part of the command and
> give a filename instead of the '-' as target/source.
> Add a 'z' to the options ('cf') to get gzip compression.
> Add a 'j' to get bzip2 compression. Add a 'v' to
> get verbose operation.
>
> As a rule I also do a verify:
>
> 9. Unmount the target and the source and mount them again
> (This ensures no date is kept in buffers.)
> 10. Run
>
> tar cf - * | (cd /mnt2; tar df -)
>
> as above. Missing and changed files will be listed.
> Works also over the net.
>
> If you just want to copy a a partition or whole disk in binary
> mode you can do
>
> dd_rescue source destination
>
> (gives nice progress output) or
>
> cat source > destination
>
> or over the network
>
> cat source | ssh root@target "cat > destination"
>
> No resizing with this and empty space is also copied.
> I recently copied an original XP installation on
> a notebook with this. Resizing with PM afterwards
> is the fastest way.
>
> Apart from the not so satisfactory support for NTFS (don't know what
> the latest state is on that, I don't use NTFS.) I find that Linux
> standard tools are completely adequate to backup and copy an XP
> installation.
>
> If you copy XP this way, you need a recovery
> floppy afterwards to make it bootable again. Also remember
> to mark the "c:" partition as "active" with fdisk.
>
> Arno
> --
> For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
> GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 7:34:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Unfortunately, 8.3 name depends not only on the long name, but on the
directory history. The files with the same 6 first characters will get ~n
suffixes, depending on order in which they are created.

If one wants to copy files preserving all attributes, the only resort is
BACKUP API (ReadBackup, WriteBackup). I don't think Linux 'tar' will
preserve short names. I don't believe Linux even cares about short names;
why it should?

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2tsulfF24cg2sU3@uni-berlin.de...
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> It is also critical to know the difference between DOS box (in Windows)
>> and
>> system booted in DOS mode. XXCOPY success to keep same shorfilenames
>> relies
>> on Win32 file I/O API which implicates use of DOS box. System booted with
>> DOS cannot do that.
>> Also, there is a difference in shortfilenames implementation between
>> Win95/98 and NT/2K/XP:
>> http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy08.htm
>
>> While many systems will function properly after such disk cloning (XCOPY
>> or
>> XXCOPY) was performed, it is NOT a fullproof method!
>
>> Use proper and proven disk imaging program to clone/image disk drives.
>
> Usinf Linux and 'tar' works well, since it will copy by (long) name,
> as long as you mount the partitions with type "vfat". The basic
> problem here is that MS did not manage to keep the details
> of the longer names from the applications. Another consequence
> of short-sighted 8.3 names. (Due to CM/P I think?)
>
> Arno
>
>
>> "Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote in message
>> news:10nhr16lehr5he2@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2tqt13F22un5iU3@uni-berlin.de...
>>> > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Barry Watzman
>>> <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>>> > > If you use XCOPY you are likely to screw up the system.
>>> >
>>> > > When you copy files, the correspondance of long filename to short
>> (8.3)
>>> > > filename is lost at random, and this matters to many programs and
>>> > > applications, sometimes even to Windows itself.
>>> >
>>> > > You need to use an imaging program, not a file copy program.
>>> >
>>> > Actually a file copy programm should work, as long as it keeps
>>> > Filenames and attributes. I know because I do backups with a file
>>> > archiveing software, namely GNU-"tar". Works well even for Windows
>>> > XP system partitions. Of course bootability with the XP boot-loader
>>> > is lost, but that can be re-gained with a rescue-floppy.
>>> >
>>> > If xcopy can do exact copies even with long filenames, I see no
>>> > reason why it should not work.
>>>
>>> http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy03.htm
>>>
>>> Big Snip.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
> GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 7:36:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

A big secret: the "other" OS is doing the same.

"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb@lab.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
news:ffgo42-ovq.ln1@triangulo.it.uc3m.es...
> Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
>> As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is
>> above
>> your head.
>
>
> being executed fail. Apparently they map the executables pages in
> memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap, and that goes on
> to create more problems, so they just makes copies fail on "busy"
> executables.
>
> At least, that is what I hear, or adduce from the yells and shrieks of
> MS users arund the place. I have had no close direct experience of MS
> systems for at least ten years, myself (phew!).
>
> Peter
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 7:51:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Alexander Grigoriev <alegr@earthlink.net> wrote:
> A big secret: the "other" OS is doing the same.

What are you talking about?

Arno

> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb@lab.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
> news:ffgo42-ovq.ln1@triangulo.it.uc3m.es...
>> Eric Gisin <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
>>> As usual, you make an idiot of yourself. The SFN (not LFN) problem is
>>> above
>>> your head.
>>
>>
>> being executed fail. Apparently they map the executables pages in
>> memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap, and that goes on
>> to create more problems, so they just makes copies fail on "busy"
>> executables.
>>
>> At least, that is what I hear, or adduce from the yells and shrieks of
>> MS users arund the place. I have had no close direct experience of MS
>> systems for at least ten years, myself (phew!).
>>
>> Peter



--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 7:54:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage 0_Qed <nano.bot@shaysnet.com> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:
> ...snip...
>> Since there are people interested in professional tools here and
>> since I do not care bout your opinion?
>> Arno

> <VBG>
> Your 'Charm School' certificate still stands you in good stead.

I apologize to the civilized people here. Sometimes I cannot resist
answering questions from the 'special' people here. Since I do
not care about them I can be blunt. Some of them, however, seem
to 'care' very much about me. I get the impression they think
I am on their turf. Pretty sad.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 7:57:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Alexander Grigoriev <alegr@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Unfortunately, 8.3 name depends not only on the long name, but on the
> directory history. The files with the same 6 first characters will get ~n
> suffixes, depending on order in which they are created.

> If one wants to copy files preserving all attributes, the only resort is
> BACKUP API (ReadBackup, WriteBackup). I don't think Linux 'tar' will
> preserve short names. I don't believe Linux even cares about short names;
> why it should?

The OS hides the short names form the applications. So 'tar' cannot care
about them, since id does not get to see them. I actually don't know
whether this can create problems, just that I did not have any so far.

If some application needs a specific 8.3 name assigned to a long name,
then yes, Linux may break that.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
October 23, 2004 7:57:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

> If some application needs a specific 8.3 name assigned to a long name,
> then yes, Linux may break that.

To find out if you have an application that need specific short file name
(alias) just start regedit and search for "~1" or "~2". You may be surprised
with results.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 23, 2004 10:10:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Thank you Arno for your detailed answer.

> No, I don't "only want files"; I want to clone a whole disk (from old disk
> to a new disk).
> That's what I call a "clone". Otherwise I would use "transfer files" or
> "copy files" terms.

> And NTFS seems to be a most typical file system installed on my old disk.
> In those cases your instructions are not really useful...(sorry to say
> that).

No problem. I have been optimising this for years, writing it down
from time to time is a good exercise. I have to say that one of the
reasons I don't use NTFS is that I would possibly loose all my
backup/imaging/restore tools.

> For curiosity, did you try to find out what are SFNs generated by your
> procedure with tar and dd methods? I suspect that tar might fail in some
> cases, while dd might be always right (i.e. preserve original SFN). But,
> again, that applies to VFAT (FATx) only.

dd: No change, regardless of filesystem. dd will copy anything
including whole disks so that the target is bootable (exception:
special reserved areas like IBM's "recovery area").

VFAT: AFAIK the SNF will not be retained, since tar has no way
of accessing it.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 24, 2004 12:19:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Peter wrote:

> Thank you Arno for your detailed answer.
>
> No, I don't "only want files"; I want to clone a whole disk (from old disk
> to a new disk).
> That's what I call a "clone". Otherwise I would use "transfer files" or
> "copy files" terms.
>
> And NTFS seems to be a most typical file system installed on my old disk.
> In those cases your instructions are not really useful...(sorry to say
> that).

The "dd_rescue" procedure he describes does exactly what you want, since it
copies entire partitions byte-for-byte, regardless what [filesystem] is on
them.

> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2tu4orF235l4qU1@uni-berlin.de...
<snip>
>> If you just want to copy a a partition or whole disk in binary
>> mode you can do
>>
>> dd_rescue source destination
>>
>> (gives nice progress output) or
>>
>> cat source > destination
>>
>> or over the network
>>
>> cat source | ssh root@target "cat > destination"

This web-page elaborates a bit on this approach, and given that you know
what you want to do, I think nothing can be "easier":
http://www.rajeevnet.com/hacks_hints/os_clone/os_clonin...

This live CD carries all the tools you need for the operation:
http://www.sysresccd.org/

(Probably knoppix works just as well, only caveat is that it boots into a
full graphical desktop which might be a distraction if you are only doing
maintenance/rescue)

Regards,
Kristian
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 24, 2004 12:19:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Kristian Berge Nessa <kristian-abrakadabraspambegone-@kristian.homelinux.com> wrote:
>> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2tu4orF235l4qU1@uni-berlin.de...
> <snip>
>>> If you just want to copy a a partition or whole disk in binary
>>> mode you can do
>>>
>>> dd_rescue source destination
>>>
>>> (gives nice progress output) or
>>>
>>> cat source > destination
>>>
>>> or over the network
>>>
>>> cat source | ssh root@target "cat > destination"

> This web-page elaborates a bit on this approach, and given that you know
> what you want to do, I think nothing can be "easier":
> http://www.rajeevnet.com/hacks_hints/os_clone/os_clonin...

Nice page!

> This live CD carries all the tools you need for the operation:
> http://www.sysresccd.org/

> (Probably knoppix works just as well, only caveat is that it boots into a
> full graphical desktop which might be a distraction if you are only doing
> maintenance/rescue)

Well, an ALT-F1 will correct that. Since I carry only one rescue CD,
I make it knoppix. An advantage of your recomendation is that it fits
on a smaller single-cd since it is only about 100MB. Knoppix is
700MB.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 24, 2004 12:53:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Kristian Berge Nessa <kristian-abrakadabraspambegone-@kristian.homelinux.com> wrote:
> Peter wrote:

>> Thank you Arno for your detailed answer.
>>
>> No, I don't "only want files"; I want to clone a whole disk (from old disk
>> to a new disk).
>> That's what I call a "clone". Otherwise I would use "transfer files" or
>> "copy files" terms.
>>
>> And NTFS seems to be a most typical file system installed on my old disk.
>> In those cases your instructions are not really useful...(sorry to say
>> that).

> The "dd_rescue" procedure he describes does exactly what you want, since it
> copies entire partitions byte-for-byte, regardless what [filesystem] is on
> them.

>> "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2tu4orF235l4qU1@uni-berlin.de...
> <snip>
>>> If you just want to copy a a partition or whole disk in binary
>>> mode you can do
>>>
>>> dd_rescue source destination
>>>
>>> (gives nice progress output) or
>>>
>>> cat source > destination
>>>
>>> or over the network
>>>
>>> cat source | ssh root@target "cat > destination"

> This web-page elaborates a bit on this approach, and given that you know
> what you want to do, I think nothing can be "easier":
> http://www.rajeevnet.com/hacks_hints/os_clone/os_clonin...

Nice page!

> This live CD carries all the tools you need for the operation:
> http://www.sysresccd.org/

> (Probably knoppix works just as well, only caveat is that it boots into a
> full graphical desktop which might be a distraction if you are only doing
> maintenance/rescue)

ALT-F1 will cure that. Since the GUI does not give you (easy)
root-access, it is mostly unusable for recovery purposes anyways.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 24, 2004 1:47:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Peter <peterfoxghost@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Thank you Arno for your detailed answer.
>
> No, I don't "only want files"; I want to clone a whole disk (from old disk
> to a new disk).
> That's what I call a "clone". Otherwise I would use "transfer files" or
> "copy files" terms.

A disk consists of partitions. Partitions contain file systems. File
systems contain files plus metadata. The whole idea of a file system is
to give you an abstraction from the underlying hardware. If you want to
copy the underlying hardware byte for byte, then go and get a hammer and
chisel ... or use dd (or cp) on the block device. That's what they are
for.

What you are is stuck in an MS world, where mysterious invisible
attributes are stored in the FILE SYSTEM (not the "disk"), and your
ign0rVnce is making you clutch at the idea of copying EVERYTHING in
order to copy the file system, which is what you really want to do.

Don't. Just copy the files. That's what the file system is for.

Peter
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
October 24, 2004 4:19:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

The "other" much hyped OS (guess which one) _also_ "maps executables pages
in memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap". Is there anything wrong
with it, or what?

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2tvcvhF23j161U1@uni-berlin.de...
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Alexander Grigoriev
> <alegr@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> A big secret: the "other" OS is doing the same.
>
> What are you talking about?
>
> Arno
>
>>>
>>>
>>> being executed fail. Apparently they map the executables pages in
>>> memory to the copy on disk, instead of to swap, and that goes on
>>> to create more problems, so they just makes copies fail on "busy"
>>> executables.
>>>
>>> At least, that is what I hear, or adduce from the yells and shrieks of
>>> MS users arund the place. I have had no close direct experience of MS
>>> systems for at least ten years, myself (phew!).
>>>
>>> Peter
!