Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Fermi performance with 197.41 drivers

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
May 7, 2010 9:19:50 AM

Xbit labs posted a review containing benchmarks for GTX 480/470 with the 197.41 driver, they show a significant improvement over the 197.17 driver (launch driver), GTX 470 is very close to the 5870 (except at 2560*1600), and GTX 480 is often more than 20% faster, those GPUs are not overclocked.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gigabyte...

I feel that Fermi is starting to look more attractive, maybe it will improve even further, what do you think?
a b Î Nvidia
May 7, 2010 10:18:55 AM

I'd personally still go for an HD 5870, simply because of power consumption and heat issues. It should improve even further considering drivers are still relatively immature though, but with regards to overclocking, but the HD 5870 can overclock more than the GTX 480 can and would catch up in terms of performance. In terms of pricing (newegg) the cheapest GTX 470 is around $349.99, while the cheapest HD 5870 is around $389.99, andthe cheapest GTX 480 is $499.99. I don't feel the $120 justifies the GTX 480, and for $30 more I'd get the HD 5870 over the GTX 470. We just have to see how 3D Vision stacks up against Eyefinity. For tesselation heavy games, the GTX 470 would be a better buy though.
May 7, 2010 10:49:13 AM

Lmeow said:
I'd personally still go for an HD 5870, simply because of power consumption and heat issues. It should improve even further considering drivers are still relatively immature though, but with regards to overclocking, but the HD 5870 can overclock more than the GTX 480 can and would catch up in terms of performance. In terms of pricing (newegg) the cheapest GTX 470 is around $349.99, while the cheapest HD 5870 is around $389.99, andthe cheapest GTX 480 is $499.99. I don't feel the $120 justifies the GTX 480, and for $30 more I'd get the HD 5870 over the GTX 470. We just have to see how 3D Vision stacks up against Eyefinity. For tesselation heavy games, the GTX 470 would be a better buy though.


The 5870 will never catch up to the GTX 480 when overclocked because both overclock very well and the GTX 4xx series gains more per clock. A GTX 480 can easily do 900 MHz with volts and sometimes without. The GTX 470 can do the same at the same volts as the GTX 480 in most cases. The GTX 4xx series has the advantage of tessellation, like you said, which is a big deal considering DX11 games with tessellation are going to be the big system hog.

Yes, if you want eyefinity, which I wouldn't mind my self, then you are stuck with the 5xxx series for now.

Oh, and what happened to all those people telling me that driver improvements wouldn't change anything? The GTX 470 is within 3% of the 5870, meaning they are equal by the law of variability. The GTX 480 is 25% more money than the 5870 for 20-25% more DX10 performance and another 15-20% on top of that for DX11 performance.

All in all I would say that we have some great cards from both sides and at different performance/price levels.
Related resources
May 7, 2010 12:47:01 PM

It all really comes down to this:

ATI 5xxx = great price/perfomance compared to nvidia: "Greener" than nvidia(no play on words intended) great overclocking

nVidia 400 series = slightly higher price but better performance under tessellation rendering: Better driver software(from previous experience with nvidia), nice overclocking as well

in my eyes its: tesselation rendering for a little extra money vs lower power consumption with slightly buggy drivers


IMO the 60 bucks isnt worth the ***slight*** increase in performance

Me personally id choose ATI atm

1. Price
2. Multitudes of high end - low end - mid range cards to choose from compared to nvidias current 2 choices for fermi
3. And of course...i DONT have to upgrade to get a new/faster card from my 550 watt PSU !!!

Maybe if nVidia would knock the price down a little i might go for the 470, but ATM its the 5850 all the way

What are your thoughts?

Uber
a b Î Nvidia
May 7, 2010 1:13:24 PM

The ATI fanboys are getting out of control.
In a topic to help other Nvidia owners and to comment on new drivers.
ATI fan are whining about their 5870. lol at stock clocks if Fermi is now beating it by 20% , game over.
May 7, 2010 1:18:47 PM

notty22 said:
The ATI fanboys are getting out of control.
In a topic to help other Nvidia owners and to comment on new drivers.
ATI fan are whining about their 5870. lol at stock clocks if Fermi is now beating it by 20% , game over.


Lol

Whose the fanboy?

Uber
May 7, 2010 1:21:23 PM

basket687 said:
Xbit labs posted a review containing benchmarks for GTX 480/470 with the 197.41 driver, they show a significant improvement over the 197.17 driver (launch driver), GTX 470 is very close to the 5870 (except at 2560*1600), and GTX 480 is often more than 20% faster, those GPUs are not overclocked.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gigabyte...

I feel that Fermi is starting to look more attractive, maybe it will improve even further, what do you think?



Forgot to reply to the starter :D 

I agree that fermi is looking real tempting...i just dont think my wallet can handle the card AND another power supply

Thats all im stating about me

:D 

Uber

PS: < not a fan boy. I was considering the 4870 before i got the 260(nvidia's drivers are far superior) never had an ATI card so i cant vouch for ATI until i try one out. As for nvidia, quality cards and drivers = performance ATW
a b Î Nvidia
May 7, 2010 1:28:57 PM

UberGenocide said:
Forgot to reply to the starter :D 

I agree that fermi is looking real tempting...i just dont think my wallet can handle the card AND another power supply

Thats all im stating about me

:D 

Uber

PS: < not a fan boy. I was considering the 4870 before i got the 260(nvidia's drivers are far superior) never had an ATI card so i cant vouch for ATI until i try one out. As for nvidia, quality cards and drivers = performance ATW


So you've never had a ATi card, but in your opinion nVidia's drivers are far superior? :lol: 
May 7, 2010 1:42:21 PM

Rustyy117 said:
So you've never had a ATi card, but in your opinion nVidia's drivers are far superior? :lol: 


Ouchies...i see where i goofed

I meant to say *clears throat*

I have read many forums where ATI's performance is inhibited by the lack of quality drivers, whereas the nvidia card i have has an outstanding performance increase from stock to 197

I can not vouch for the ATI drivers myself although, based on what ive read and researched, nvidia's drivers are superior

When i get the 5850 and compare the stock drivers to the new 10.4 (i think) catalyst, then i will give you my opinion

Sorry for the hipocritical post :D 

Thanks and sry again

Uber
May 7, 2010 1:49:28 PM

i always feel this kinda of discussions are pointless. I feel that both ati/ and fermi both ofter good price to performance compared to other generations. It's really done to what your preference is. Do you want multi moniter set up ati, you want 3d nvidia. You want crazy good dx 10/9 performance ati, you want some heavy tessellation nvidia. You want to save a ton of money your electric bill haha ati. You want better antialias nvidia. It's really down to what you need. overall is pretty good, each price point has higher and higher performance.
a b Î Nvidia
May 7, 2010 2:01:52 PM

UberGenocide said:
Ouchies...i see where i goofed

I meant to say *clears throat*

I have read many forums where ATI's performance is inhibited by the lack of quality drivers, whereas the nvidia card i have has an outstanding performance increase from stock to 197

I can not vouch for the ATI drivers myself although, based on what ive read and researched, nvidia's drivers are superior

When i get the 5850 and compare the stock drivers to the new 10.4 (i think) catalyst, then i will give you my opinion

Sorry for the hipocritical post :D 

Thanks and sry again

Uber


Its cool man, I think you have to take people's opinions on things like drivers with a pinch of salt as people are often biased towards one company or another. Enjoy your HD5850 (when you get it) ;) 
a b Î Nvidia
May 7, 2010 2:41:20 PM

jonnyboyC said:
i always feel this kinda of discussions are pointless. I feel that both ati/ and fermi both ofter good price to performance compared to other generations. It's really done to what your preference is. Do you want multi moniter set up ati, you want 3d nvidia. You want crazy good dx 10/9 performance ati, you want some heavy tessellation nvidia. You want to save a ton of money your electric bill haha ati. You want better antialias nvidia. It's really down to what you need. overall is pretty good, each price point has higher and higher performance.


Sure , except thats not what the op put forth in his post or topic title. Topic is about Fermi performance with a new driver release and the web site , that did a article on it.
This type of thread can be Nvidia owners rejoicing in their purchase and maybe even gloat a bit? Instead ATI fans have to come in and scream hot, and why ATI is better . On the very first replies ! There are plenty of threads for that , like these.

5850 vs 470 which one?

2 x ASUS ATI HD5870 v2 or 2 x nVidia GTX 470

[Graphics Cards] Whats the best card for my pc

AnyWAYs, along with new drivers, are coming the second wave of 470's, heres one with what looks like a triple slot cooler ?

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18744/1/

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18745/1/
Quote:
Galaxy have essentially mated a graphics card with a robot figurine. http://www.anandtech.com/
May 7, 2010 4:19:36 PM

Quote:
Please show me one of those forums in the last 3 years where ATI'sperformance is inhibited by lack of quality drivers.......please oh please show me.


By inhibiting performance i mean crashes and instability...its on TH and Newegg.com with the stock drivers for the 5xxx series and some stability issues

Im really not trying to troll you guys..i think i should stop posting...too many people are touchy on the ATI vs Nvidia thing

Uber
May 7, 2010 4:27:44 PM

Quote:
1)That 20% (laughing), is easily made up by overclocking.
2)The GTX480 is $110 more expensive, I sure hope it's faster. lol
3)People are running their 5850's at 5870 speeds. (5850 is $289)
4)all the Catalyst 9.X's and all the way up to 10.4 are rock solid. I've used every single one of them with zero issues.
5)Check Newegg reviews on the GTX470/480 and half of them are talking about driver issues and dots on their screens. Please....

Were not even going to get into the electric bill or room heating factor.


The main thread that had me questioning ATI drivers is this one...

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258363-33-drivers

Thats the one that got my attention

Granted it is from 1 and a half years ago

But i am seeing reviews on websites with driver problems(newegg mostly, but not a whole lot of complaints)

Uber
May 7, 2010 4:29:40 PM

Rustyy117 said:
Its cool man, I think you have to take people's opinions on things like drivers with a pinch of salt as people are often biased towards one company or another. Enjoy your HD5850 (when you get it) ;) 


I hope i will :D 

It will probably be in the next few weeks so cross fingers *crosses fingers*

Thanks

Uber
May 7, 2010 7:07:12 PM

There was a period of time when Nvidia drivers were less painful than ATI but I would argue that time has came and went. Nvidia has had some awful driver releases in the past year whereas I only recall one awful driver set from ATI in recent times. ATI has improved by miles in their Catylist driver from what it used to be but that is just my experience. As far as the 400 series is concerned, I think everyone expects performance gains in upcoming driver releases as the potential is there. They definitely have optimizations to make on traditionally strong Nvidia game benchmarks where they are kind of luke warm.
May 7, 2010 7:13:17 PM

zip you are one of the biggest ati fanboys I've seen on this site, it's pretty brutal. ATI had quite a round of bad drivers with their grey screening and various issues. All cards go through bad drivers and glitches.

1)That 20% (laughing), is easily made up by overclocking.

Yeah, and then the 20% is established again once you OC the 480.

2)The GTX480 is $110 more expensive, I sure hope it's faster. lol

Capt. Obvious is obvious.

3)People are running their 5850's at 5870 speeds. (5850 is $289)

And people are running their 470's at 480 speeds... whats your point?

4)all the Catalyst 9.X's and all the way up to 10.4 are rock solid. I've used every single one of them with zero issues.

Grey Screen/Black lines anyone?


5)Check Newegg reviews on the GTX470/480 and half of them are talking about driver issues and dots on their screens. Please....

No one should ever take most of the newegg reviews very serious. Most of the 5xxx series reviews are all about driver issues. This isnt really helping your fanboy case. News flash. A lot of negative newegg reviews are due to user error.


Please, please stop all the fanboy nut-hanging.

Both ATI and Nvidia makes awesome cards right now and both have their places and their customers.
May 7, 2010 8:09:30 PM

Quote:
If you need a space heater in your room and your electric bill is already too low, go for Fermi. A small overclock on a 5850 put's it well ahead of the 470 for $50-70 less money.

It's funny I was looking at the EVGA 470 on Newegg and the first 3 reviews (only one's I read) said they had driver issues and black bars and dots on the screen.


The GTX 470 overclocks just as well as the 5850 and the 5870 (~150 MHz stock voltage ~200 MHz volt applied), but the GTX 4xx series gains much more per clock than either the 5850 or the 5870. So a GTX 470 at 850 MHz is basically equal to a 5850-5870 @ 1GHz.

So 15-20% better performance, increased performance gains with overclocking, another 10-20% performance increase with heavy tessellation, and better SLI scaling are not worth $50-$70? I think differently, but it is all opinion based. It is all what fits someones needs the best, not what is generally better because of some random criteria you made up, false wins for the 5850 in your case.

Quote:
1)That 20% (laughing), is easily made up by overclocking.
2)The GTX480 is $110 more expensive, I sure hope it's faster. lol
3)People are running their 5850's at 5870 speeds. (5850 is $289)
4)all the Catalyst 9.X's and all the way up to 10.4 are rock solid. I've used every single one of them with zero issues.
5)Check Newegg reviews on the GTX470/480 and half of them are talking about driver issues and dots on their screens. Please....

Were not even going to get into the electric bill or room heating factor.


1. Oh so suddenly the GTX 480 can't overclock? Sorry, it can overclock just the same as the 5870 (100-150MHz), and that is comparing stock voltage for the GTX 480 with possibly stock or in many cases increased voltage with the 5870. Now factor in that the GTX 480 gains much more per clock and you will see that 20% only INCREASE, not decrease.
2. For that extra $110, you get 20% more performance in DX10, more when you compare them overclocked similarly, and they also have another 10-20% performance advantage with heavy tessellation on top of their DX10 lead. All in exchange for a bit more noise, heat, and power consumption. That seems pretty fair for $110, but it still comes completely down to the consumer's needs.
3. 5850 has 90% the specs of the 5870, so it will always be about 10% slower.
4. Agreed, except for the poor individuals with the GSOD issues, the drivers are great. nVidia users have recently experience similar thing. ATI and nVidia are damn close on drivers, and saying otherwise is just foolish.
5. GSOD, period. Looks like both BRAND NEW SERIES are a bit buggy. That must be a first in GPU history! (/sarcasm)

The truth is that both companies offer great cards that will fit people's needs differently. There is no need to lie about facts.
May 8, 2010 5:11:26 PM

Quote:

I buy the best product for the money at the time of purchase, regardless if it's Intel, AMD, ATI or Nvidia. That's what smart people do.


5850 has 90% the specs of a 5870?? LOL 725mhz vs 850mhz core...1000mhz memory vs. 1200mhz......1600 SP's vs. 1440 SP's. Not sure how far you got in school, but check your math.

Where did I say the GTX doesn't overclock?? However, that space heater immediately turns into a portable oven. It uses more power than a 5970 and is significantly slower. Nice.


I agree, Newegg reviews can be very helpful, you just need to know enough to wade through the B.S.

Your right, the clocks are 15-18% lower on the 5850 than the 5870, but I was ignoring that because you were comparing them at the same clocks. As I said, the shaders, TUs, and ROPs are all about 10% lower than the 5870, so the 5850 will theoretically be always 10% slower clock for clock, though the difference will be smaller or larger depending on the game.

It has been shown quite a few times that the GTX 480/470 doesn't run as hot as most think and can overclock within except-able thermal levels even with some minor volt tweaking. Just because they use more power and are a bit hotter does not mean they can't be and are not overclocked, they usually are. If you can't handle or refuse to handle the extra power or heat, then the 5xxx series is the obvious choice. But as an enthusiast, I can overlook that for the money, like I have and all other enthusiasts have since the days of 500w PSUs powering the mightiest rigs. It all comes down to the needs of the consumer

Also, you shouldn't compare the GTX 480 to the 5970 without mentioning that one is a single GPU and the other is a dual GPU card. 2 GTX 480s will blow past 2 5970s because of this and the GTX 480 will give a more consistent gameplay, with its equal or greater minimum FPS which is important.

Also notice that the 5970 costs 40%-50% more than the GTX 480 for 15-20% more performance($719/$499 = 45% more), and basically the same or less performance with heavy tessellation.
a b Î Nvidia
May 9, 2010 12:46:24 PM

I'm just wondering, how are the GTX 470 and GTX 480 priced compared to the HD 5850, HD 5870 and HD 5970 in countries outside U.S.? nVidia stuff here tends to be a bit more expensive, but I'm just thinking that where I'm living, and that it's an exception.

The cheapest prices are in NZ:

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 470 - $600 NZD
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 480 - $870 NZD

Sapphire Radeon HD 5850 ~ $480 NZD
HIS Radeon HD 5870 ~ $650 NZD
Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 - $960 NZD (I'm really surprised, it's actually cheaper here than in the U.S., which pretty much never happens!)

Tbh, I'd buy a GTX 470 if it was cheaper, but as for the GTX 480, really, I'd just pay that $80 more for a card which performs better and more efficiently.
a b Î Nvidia
May 9, 2010 2:05:14 PM

Lmeow said:
I'm just wondering, how are the GTX 470 and GTX 480 priced compared to the HD 5850, HD 5870 and HD 5970 in countries outside U.S.? nVidia stuff here tends to be a bit more expensive, but I'm just thinking that where I'm living, and that it's an exception.

The cheapest prices are in NZ:

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 470 - $600 NZD
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 480 - $870 NZD

Sapphire Radeon HD 5850 ~ $480 NZD
HIS Radeon HD 5870 ~ $650 NZD
Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 - $960 NZD (I'm really surprised, it's actually cheaper here than in the U.S., which pretty much never happens!)

Tbh, I'd buy a GTX 470 if it was cheaper, but as for the GTX 480, really, I'd just pay that $80 more for a card which performs better and more efficiently.


The prices in the UK are bad for Fermi aswell, With the exception of one etailer the price of the GTX470 is £310+ which is the same price as a HD5870, the HD5850 being £223+

The GTX480 is £412+ and hardly any cheaper than a HD5970
May 10, 2010 12:38:05 PM

Quote:
That was strictly a crossfire problem and it was addressed with the next update. Did you even read it? LOL

Cmon dude, your gonna have to try harder than that.

By the way have you bothered to see the driver complaints on the reviews for the 470/480?

And what do you mean problems with "stock" drivers for the 5XXX series? You mean the ones on the cd? Who uses those anyways?

I got my 5850 and immediately download 10.3 and never had a single problem. I'm now on 10.4. Rock solid at 775/1100. Never goes above 55c with fan at 60%.


I was speaking of those drivers with those cards...i did realize it was an crossfire problem

"Cmon dude, your gonna have to try harder than that."

If you want to correct me...fine...if you want to troll me...don't

I make mistakes, i may read something wrong, but that doesnt mean im an idiot and shouldnt be treated as such

OK back to drivers

Yes i have seen complaints about the nvidia drivers as well

Im just merely stating that **i** have seen **MORE** complaints with ATI's drivers in the past that nvidia's

I know a bunch of the problems could be solved with driver cleaner and i was just wondering if ATI's 5xxx drivers were stable

Sry for the confusion on my behalf

Uber
May 10, 2010 2:48:38 PM

ATI makes some amazing cards, and if you're a user who is concerned about power or heat, then they are the cards you're gonna go for 100% of the time.

A "Better Buy" is completely relative. Most enthusiast gamers aren't gonna care very much about power usage, and heat isn't as much of a big deal since most of us have nice cases with good airflow.

I can say as an actual 400 series owner , and as much of the net has shown, heat on the 400 series really isn't as bad as initial reviews made out. And neither is noise.

The 400 series makes sense for a lot of buyers. Especially in Canada.

5850s are all prices around 300-360
The 470s are 350, and are faster, especially with AA and tesselation
5870s are all around 400-480

This means you can usually get a 470 for around the same price as a 5850, and almost 100 less then the 5870s, when u factor in tax and everything.

I was really close to getting a 5850, and all the models I was looking at were around the exact same price as the 470, so it made the 470 a pretty easy choice. The 400 series drivers are still new on top of all this, where as it looks like the 5xxx series drivers are fairly mature and reached probably most of their max potential.

I'm definitely not a fanboy as I think a lot of the ATI cards are really good buys, and recommend them to a lot of people, but between the 5850 and the 470, the 470 just came out on top in terms of power and being a bit more futureproof.
May 10, 2010 3:23:01 PM

Petey1013 said:
The 400 series drivers are still new on top of all this, where as it looks like the 5xxx series drivers are fairly mature and reached probably most of their max potential.


There is no way to know how new the Fermi drivers are, for all we know they could be as mature as the ATI drivers, maybe even more so given NV usually hits the max sooner than ATI
May 10, 2010 3:51:30 PM

What exactly in that review in teh OP shows that the new drivers are faster?

It could easily be reviewer variations. At release there were several reviews that showed performance differences of that magnitude (20% more for the 480 was not uncommon in the first reviews for many games). There is no comparison between drviers in the link.

The 470 certainly seems like it has a better showing vs teh 5870 in that review than many others, but there were a few out with the old drivers that showed almost identical numbers. The conclusion in this one even mentions that the 480 is as fast as it was in thier first look at it.

This fanboi BS is gettign out of hand though...
!