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Spookiest TR user level I've played...

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 24, 2005 2:23:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

....up to now...

I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks (Das
Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*

If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange half-nurse half-metal
zombie things, the rooms with the toxic gas are seriously weird to run
through, and then theres the very odd rooms with the broken and discarded
tables or the gurneys with the corpses on, or the half metal guys hanging in
the gibberts from the ceilings. The sounds effects will give you nightmares
for weeks :-)

Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The spookiest AND
weirdest TR experience I've come across.

--
Duncan
--
www.thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk
www.thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk/rogues
www.thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk/maps
www.thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk/chat
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 24, 2005 5:15:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
> ...up to now...
>
> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks (Das
> Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>
> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange half-nurse
> half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic gas are seriously
> weird to run through, and then theres the very odd rooms with the
> broken and discarded tables or the gurneys with the corpses on, or
> the half metal guys hanging in the gibberts from the ceilings. The
> sounds effects will give you nightmares for weeks :-)
>
> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The spookiest AND
> weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>
> --
> Duncan

Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of AoD it is
:) 
McG.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 24, 2005 10:55:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...

> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>> ...up to now...
>>
>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks (Das
>> Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>>
>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange half-nurse
>> half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic gas are seriously
>> weird to run through, and then theres the very odd rooms with the
>> broken and discarded tables or the gurneys with the corpses on, or
>> the half metal guys hanging in the gibberts from the ceilings. The
>> sounds effects will give you nightmares for weeks :-)
>>
>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The spookiest AND
>> weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>
>> --
>> Duncan
>
> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of AoD it
> is :) 
> McG.

I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based on the AoD
ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)

Duncan
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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 24, 2005 12:29:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 1ttpu$4m9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>
>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>>> ...up to now...
>>>
>>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks (Das
>>> Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>>>
>>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange half-nurse
>>> half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic gas are seriously
>>> weird to run through, and then theres the very odd rooms with the
>>> broken and discarded tables or the gurneys with the corpses on, or
>>> the half metal guys hanging in the gibberts from the ceilings. The
>>> sounds effects will give you nightmares for weeks :-)
>>>
>>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The spookiest
>>> AND weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Duncan
>>
>> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of AoD it
>> is :) 
>> McG.
>
> I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based on the
> AoD ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)

No, from the description these are not based on anything out of AoD at
all.

>
> Duncan

Ok, so where did ya get it? I don't see that level in TRLE.NET, the big
level base. Oh found it! Getting it from Lucs site...TRO? He does
have some of the stuff in Engleesh in there ;)  Ah, it's only 129 megs,
downloading now. Piega is also working on another trip back to the
Sanctuary! Yaaaay! Man we are really fortunate to have these folks
making some fantastic levels. Download Complete. Yes, I'm bragging,
600 KiloBytes per second! :o )))) 5 mbit connect :)  Gee and I thought
it might take a while. 4 minutes total download time. Ah,
lessee...what else can I scarf up? Anyway, back to bed, long workday
ahead...
McG.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 24, 2005 12:37:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...

> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D 1ttpu$4m9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>
>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>> ...up to now...
>>>>
>>>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks
>>>> (Das Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>>>>
>>>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange half-nurse
>>>> half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic gas are
>>>> seriously weird to run through, and then theres the very odd rooms
>>>> with the broken and discarded tables or the gurneys with the
>>>> corpses on, or the half metal guys hanging in the gibberts from
>>>> the ceilings. The sounds effects will give you nightmares for
>>>> weeks :-)
>>>>
>>>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The spookiest
>>>> AND weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Duncan
>>>
>>> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of AoD
>>> it is :) 
>>> McG.
>>
>> I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based on the
>> AoD ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)
>
> No, from the description these are not based on anything out of AoD at
> all.
>
>>
>> Duncan
>
> Ok, so where did ya get it? I don't see that level in TRLE.NET, the
> big level base. Oh found it! Getting it from Lucs site...TRO?

Yep. Thats the one.

> He
> does have some of the stuff in Engleesh in there ;) 

My download of this one was in German!

> Ah, it's only
> 129 megs, downloading now. Piega is also working on another trip
> back to the Sanctuary! Yaaaay! Man we are really fortunate to have
> these folks making some fantastic levels.

We sure are!

> Download Complete. Yes,
> I'm bragging, 600 KiloBytes per second! :o )))) 5 mbit connect :) 
> Gee and I thought it might take a while. 4 minutes total download
> time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... ;-)

> Ah, lessee...what else can I scarf up? Anyway, back to bed,
> long workday ahead...
> McG.

Duncan
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 24, 2005 9:57:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 1udgj$g0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>
>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:D 1ttpu$4m9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>
>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>> ...up to now...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks
>>>>> (Das Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>>>>>
>>>>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange half-nurse
>>>>> half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic gas are
>>>>> seriously weird to run through, and then theres the very odd rooms
>>>>> with the broken and discarded tables or the gurneys with the
>>>>> corpses on, or the half metal guys hanging in the gibberts from
>>>>> the ceilings. The sounds effects will give you nightmares for
>>>>> weeks :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The spookiest
>>>>> AND weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Duncan
>>>>
>>>> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of AoD
>>>> it is :) 
>>>> McG.
>>>
>>> I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based on
>>> the AoD ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)
>>
>> No, from the description these are not based on anything out of AoD
>> at all.
>>
>>>
>>> Duncan
>>
>> Ok, so where did ya get it? I don't see that level in TRLE.NET, the
>> big level base. Oh found it! Getting it from Lucs site...TRO?
>
> Yep. Thats the one.
>
>> He
>> does have some of the stuff in Engleesh in there ;) 
>
> My download of this one was in German!
>
>> Ah, it's only
>> 129 megs, downloading now. Piega is also working on another trip
>> back to the Sanctuary! Yaaaay! Man we are really fortunate to have
>> these folks making some fantastic levels.
>
> We sure are!
>
>> Download Complete. Yes,
>> I'm bragging, 600 KiloBytes per second! :o )))) 5 mbit connect :) 
>> Gee and I thought it might take a while. 4 minutes total download
>> time.
>
> Yeah, yeah, yeah.... ;-)
>
>> Ah, lessee...what else can I scarf up? Anyway, back to bed,
>> long workday ahead...
>> McG.
>
> Duncan

Oh no, I gotta play through three levels to get to Steel?!?! Ah well...
it's a long holiday weekend :) 

Oh, btw.... know what I found to be the *easiest* way to get the user
levels working, and keep them installed? I keep a "unused" level
editor folder all set up and ready to go. When I get a new level to try
out, I just copy that folder and give it another name, then install the
level. I learnt this lesson installing Sanctuary of Ice, Water and
Fire over another user level. Neither one worked! someone here in the
ng suggested I do that. saves lots of aggravation :) 
McG.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 25, 2005 3:11:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...

> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D 1udgj$g0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>
>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:D 1ttpu$4m9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>
>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>> message news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>> ...up to now...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks
>>>>>> (Das Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange half-nurse
>>>>>> half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic gas are
>>>>>> seriously weird to run through, and then theres the very odd
>>>>>> rooms with the broken and discarded tables or the gurneys with
>>>>>> the corpses on, or the half metal guys hanging in the gibberts
>>>>>> from the ceilings. The sounds effects will give you nightmares
>>>>>> for weeks :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The spookiest
>>>>>> AND weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of AoD
>>>>> it is :) 
>>>>> McG.
>>>>
>>>> I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based on
>>>> the AoD ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)
>>>
>>> No, from the description these are not based on anything out of AoD
>>> at all.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Duncan
>>>
>>> Ok, so where did ya get it? I don't see that level in TRLE.NET, the
>>> big level base. Oh found it! Getting it from Lucs site...TRO?
>>
>> Yep. Thats the one.
>>
>>> He
>>> does have some of the stuff in Engleesh in there ;) 
>>
>> My download of this one was in German!
>>
>>> Ah, it's only
>>> 129 megs, downloading now. Piega is also working on another trip
>>> back to the Sanctuary! Yaaaay! Man we are really fortunate to
>>> have these folks making some fantastic levels.
>>
>> We sure are!
>>
>>> Download Complete. Yes,
>>> I'm bragging, 600 KiloBytes per second! :o )))) 5 mbit connect :) 
>>> Gee and I thought it might take a while. 4 minutes total download
>>> time.
>>
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.... ;-)
>>
>>> Ah, lessee...what else can I scarf up? Anyway, back to bed,
>>> long workday ahead...
>>> McG.
>>
>> Duncan
>
> Oh no, I gotta play through three levels to get to Steel?!?! Ah
> well... it's a long holiday weekend :) 
>
> Oh, btw.... know what I found to be the *easiest* way to get the user
> levels working, and keep them installed? I keep a "unused" level
> editor folder all set up and ready to go. When I get a new level to
> try out, I just copy that folder and give it another name, then
> install the level. I learnt this lesson installing Sanctuary of
> Ice, Water and Fire over another user level. Neither one worked!
> someone here in the ng suggested I do that. saves lots of
> aggravation :) 

Ah! I've been finishing 'em and copying over the TRLE files so its like a
new install!

Mmmm. I may have to try this out!

> McG.

Duncan
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 25, 2005 4:47:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 1vlbg$fs5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>
>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:D 1udgj$g0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>
>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:D 1ttpu$4m9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>>> message news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>>> ...up to now...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks
>>>>>>> (Das Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange
>>>>>>> half-nurse half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic
>>>>>>> gas are seriously weird to run through, and then theres the
>>>>>>> very odd rooms with the broken and discarded tables or the
>>>>>>> gurneys with the corpses on, or the half metal guys hanging in
>>>>>>> the gibberts from the ceilings. The sounds effects will give
>>>>>>> you nightmares for weeks :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The
>>>>>>> spookiest AND weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of
>>>>>> AoD it is :) 
>>>>>> McG.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based on
>>>>> the AoD ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)
>>>>
>>>> No, from the description these are not based on anything out of AoD
>>>> at all.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Duncan
>>>>
>>>> Ok, so where did ya get it? I don't see that level in TRLE.NET,
>>>> the big level base. Oh found it! Getting it from Lucs site...TRO?
>>>
>>> Yep. Thats the one.
>>>
>>>> He
>>>> does have some of the stuff in Engleesh in there ;) 
>>>
>>> My download of this one was in German!
>>>
>>>> Ah, it's only
>>>> 129 megs, downloading now. Piega is also working on another trip
>>>> back to the Sanctuary! Yaaaay! Man we are really fortunate to
>>>> have these folks making some fantastic levels.
>>>
>>> We sure are!
>>>
>>>> Download Complete. Yes,
>>>> I'm bragging, 600 KiloBytes per second! :o )))) 5 mbit connect :) 
>>>> Gee and I thought it might take a while. 4 minutes total download
>>>> time.
>>>
>>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.... ;-)
>>>
>>>> Ah, lessee...what else can I scarf up? Anyway, back to bed,
>>>> long workday ahead...
>>>> McG.
>>>
>>> Duncan
>>
>> Oh no, I gotta play through three levels to get to Steel?!?! Ah
>> well... it's a long holiday weekend :) 
>>
>> Oh, btw.... know what I found to be the *easiest* way to get the user
>> levels working, and keep them installed? I keep a "unused" level
>> editor folder all set up and ready to go. When I get a new level to
>> try out, I just copy that folder and give it another name, then
>> install the level. I learnt this lesson installing Sanctuary of
>> Ice, Water and Fire over another user level. Neither one worked!
>> someone here in the ng suggested I do that. saves lots of
>> aggravation :) 
>
> Ah! I've been finishing 'em and copying over the TRLE files so its
> like a new install!
>
> Mmmm. I may have to try this out!
>
>> McG.
>
> Duncan

That's one way to do it, but just keep a 'virgin' install of TRLE on the
HD, then when you're done, copy the files over to the folder with the
one you just completed. I'm terrible about keeping things around like
that. If it's a user level I enjoyed, like Sanctuary, I just keep it so
I can replay any saved game any time. Honestly though, there aren't all
that many that are SO good I hate erasing them. Sanctuary is definitely
one of em though :) 

Wouldn't it be cool if someone could like create GS's "Tombstone" in
TRLE? Heh!
McG.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 25, 2005 11:08:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...

> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D 1vlbg$fs5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>
>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:D 1udgj$g0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>
>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>> message news:D 1ttpu$4m9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>>>> message news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>>>> ...up to now...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks
>>>>>>>> (Das Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange
>>>>>>>> half-nurse half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic
>>>>>>>> gas are seriously weird to run through, and then theres the
>>>>>>>> very odd rooms with the broken and discarded tables or the
>>>>>>>> gurneys with the corpses on, or the half metal guys hanging in
>>>>>>>> the gibberts from the ceilings. The sounds effects will give
>>>>>>>> you nightmares for weeks :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The
>>>>>>>> spookiest AND weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of
>>>>>>> AoD it is :) 
>>>>>>> McG.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based on
>>>>>> the AoD ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> No, from the description these are not based on anything out of
>>>>> AoD at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, so where did ya get it? I don't see that level in TRLE.NET,
>>>>> the big level base. Oh found it! Getting it from Lucs
>>>>> site...TRO?
>>>>
>>>> Yep. Thats the one.
>>>>
>>>>> He
>>>>> does have some of the stuff in Engleesh in there ;) 
>>>>
>>>> My download of this one was in German!
>>>>
>>>>> Ah, it's only
>>>>> 129 megs, downloading now. Piega is also working on another trip
>>>>> back to the Sanctuary! Yaaaay! Man we are really fortunate to
>>>>> have these folks making some fantastic levels.
>>>>
>>>> We sure are!
>>>>
>>>>> Download Complete. Yes,
>>>>> I'm bragging, 600 KiloBytes per second! :o )))) 5 mbit connect :) 
>>>>> Gee and I thought it might take a while. 4 minutes total download
>>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.... ;-)
>>>>
>>>>> Ah, lessee...what else can I scarf up? Anyway, back to bed,
>>>>> long workday ahead...
>>>>> McG.
>>>>
>>>> Duncan
>>>
>>> Oh no, I gotta play through three levels to get to Steel?!?! Ah
>>> well... it's a long holiday weekend :) 
>>>
>>> Oh, btw.... know what I found to be the *easiest* way to get the
>>> user levels working, and keep them installed? I keep a "unused"
>>> level editor folder all set up and ready to go. When I get a new
>>> level to try out, I just copy that folder and give it another name,
>>> then install the level. I learnt this lesson installing Sanctuary
>>> of Ice, Water and Fire over another user level. Neither one worked!
>>> someone here in the ng suggested I do that. saves lots of
>>> aggravation :) 
>>
>> Ah! I've been finishing 'em and copying over the TRLE files so its
>> like a new install!
>>
>> Mmmm. I may have to try this out!
>>
>>> McG.
>>
>> Duncan
>
> That's one way to do it, but just keep a 'virgin' install of TRLE on
> the HD, then when you're done, copy the files over to the folder with
> the one you just completed. I'm terrible about keeping things
> around like that. If it's a user level I enjoyed, like Sanctuary, I
> just keep it so I can replay any saved game any time. Honestly
> though, there aren't all that many that are SO good I hate erasing
> them. Sanctuary is definitely one of em though :) 

Sanctuary is *excellent*. Theres no doubt that that guy is one talented
level designer. Not unlike the bar that was set by Neil Manke for Quake and
Half Life modding.

>
> Wouldn't it be cool if someone could like create GS's "Tombstone" in
> TRLE? Heh!

GS's??? Tombstone?

> McG.

Duncan
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 25, 2005 11:08:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

In reply to Thunderchief's post:
> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>> "Thunderchief" wrote:
>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>> "Thunderchief" wrote:
>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>>> "Thunderchief" wrote:
>>>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...

<benevolently snipped stuff>

>>>> Oh, btw.... know what I found to be the *easiest* way to get the
>>>> user levels working, and keep them installed? I keep a "unused"
>>>> level editor folder all set up and ready to go. When I get a new
>>>> level to try out, I just copy that folder and give it another name,
>>>> then install the level. I learnt this lesson installing Sanctuary
>>>> of Ice, Water and Fire over another user level. Neither one worked!
>>>> someone here in the ng suggested I do that. saves lots of
>>>> aggravation :) 
>>>
>>> Ah! I've been finishing 'em and copying over the TRLE files so its
>>> like a new install!
>>>
>>> Mmmm. I may have to try this out!
>>
>> That's one way to do it, but just keep a 'virgin' install of TRLE on
>> the HD, then when you're done, copy the files over to the folder with
>> the one you just completed. I'm terrible about keeping things
>> around like that. If it's a user level I enjoyed, like Sanctuary, I
>> just keep it so I can replay any saved game any time. Honestly
>> though, there aren't all that many that are SO good I hate erasing
>> them. Sanctuary is definitely one of em though :) 
>
> Sanctuary is *excellent*. Theres no doubt that that guy is one talented
> level designer. Not unlike the bar that was set by Neil Manke for Quake
> and Half Life modding.
>
>> Wouldn't it be cool if someone could like create GS's "Tombstone" in
>> TRLE? Heh!
>
> GS's??? Tombstone?

<big limerant grin> Right! You know, Gordian Slash's TR FanFic Tales of the
Croft?

You *were* kidding, right?! Right?! Hmm.., Really?

Actually, it has been a goal of mine for quite a while to attempt to
recreate any one of GS's Tales of the Croft adventures with the TRLE. I
think once I get the hang creating a level with some scenarios I've been
pondering, it *may* not be as daunting of an idea to try interpreting a tale
to action. The Tales of the Croft read like TR games to me already. However,
I am skeptical of my ability to find enough time in the *near* future
necessary for simply *playing* TR, let alone something as challenging as
paying tribute to the fan fic and do it right!

That is, if I manage to gain the author's permission. lol

Good grief! Look at the hour! Yikes! G'night all (or G'morning)!

<trods off>

Ms T
ever changing calm
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 25, 2005 3:36:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 20gtr$3a7$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>
>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:D 1vlbg$fs5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>
>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:D 1udgj$g0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>>> message news:D 1ttpu$4m9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>>>>> message news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> ...up to now...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The Steelworks
>>>>>>>>> (Das Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly *wow*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange
>>>>>>>>> half-nurse half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic
>>>>>>>>> gas are seriously weird to run through, and then theres the
>>>>>>>>> very odd rooms with the broken and discarded tables or the
>>>>>>>>> gurneys with the corpses on, or the half metal guys hanging in
>>>>>>>>> the gibberts from the ceilings. The sounds effects will give
>>>>>>>>> you nightmares for weeks :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The
>>>>>>>>> spookiest AND weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of
>>>>>>>> AoD it is :) 
>>>>>>>> McG.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based
>>>>>>> on the AoD ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, from the description these are not based on anything out of
>>>>>> AoD at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, so where did ya get it? I don't see that level in TRLE.NET,
>>>>>> the big level base. Oh found it! Getting it from Lucs
>>>>>> site...TRO?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. Thats the one.
>>>>>
>>>>>> He
>>>>>> does have some of the stuff in Engleesh in there ;) 
>>>>>
>>>>> My download of this one was in German!
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, it's only
>>>>>> 129 megs, downloading now. Piega is also working on another trip
>>>>>> back to the Sanctuary! Yaaaay! Man we are really fortunate to
>>>>>> have these folks making some fantastic levels.
>>>>>
>>>>> We sure are!
>>>>>
>>>>>> Download Complete. Yes,
>>>>>> I'm bragging, 600 KiloBytes per second! :o )))) 5 mbit connect
>>>>>> :)  Gee and I thought it might take a while. 4 minutes total
>>>>>> download time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.... ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, lessee...what else can I scarf up? Anyway, back to bed,
>>>>>> long workday ahead...
>>>>>> McG.
>>>>>
>>>>> Duncan
>>>>
>>>> Oh no, I gotta play through three levels to get to Steel?!?! Ah
>>>> well... it's a long holiday weekend :) 
>>>>
>>>> Oh, btw.... know what I found to be the *easiest* way to get the
>>>> user levels working, and keep them installed? I keep a "unused"
>>>> level editor folder all set up and ready to go. When I get a new
>>>> level to try out, I just copy that folder and give it another name,
>>>> then install the level. I learnt this lesson installing Sanctuary
>>>> of Ice, Water and Fire over another user level. Neither one
>>>> worked! someone here in the ng suggested I do that. saves lots of
>>>> aggravation :) 
>>>
>>> Ah! I've been finishing 'em and copying over the TRLE files so its
>>> like a new install!
>>>
>>> Mmmm. I may have to try this out!
>>>
>>>> McG.
>>>
>>> Duncan
>>
>> That's one way to do it, but just keep a 'virgin' install of TRLE on
>> the HD, then when you're done, copy the files over to the folder with
>> the one you just completed. I'm terrible about keeping things
>> around like that. If it's a user level I enjoyed, like Sanctuary, I
>> just keep it so I can replay any saved game any time. Honestly
>> though, there aren't all that many that are SO good I hate erasing
>> them. Sanctuary is definitely one of em though :) 
>
> Sanctuary is *excellent*. Theres no doubt that that guy is one
> talented level designer. Not unlike the bar that was set by Neil
> Manke for Quake and Half Life modding.

Um, I tink Piega is a 'she', actually :) 

>
>>
>> Wouldn't it be cool if someone could like create GS's "Tombstone" in
>> TRLE? Heh!
>
> GS's??? Tombstone?

Gordian Slash's story "Tombstone". Or Forerunner! Or Gauntlett! Or
Pyramid! Gee, any of em really! :o )))

>
>> McG.
>
> Duncan
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 25, 2005 7:05:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

There I was, minding my own business, when Ms T said...

> In reply to Thunderchief's post:
>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>> "Thunderchief" wrote:
>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>> "Thunderchief" wrote:
>>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>>>> "Thunderchief" wrote:
>>>>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>
> <benevolently snipped stuff>
>
>>>>> Oh, btw.... know what I found to be the *easiest* way to get the
>>>>> user levels working, and keep them installed? I keep a "unused"
>>>>> level editor folder all set up and ready to go. When I get a new
>>>>> level to try out, I just copy that folder and give it another
>>>>> name, then install the level. I learnt this lesson installing
>>>>> Sanctuary of Ice, Water and Fire over another user level.
>>>>> Neither one worked! someone here in the ng suggested I do that.
>>>>> saves lots of aggravation :) 
>>>>
>>>> Ah! I've been finishing 'em and copying over the TRLE files so its
>>>> like a new install!
>>>>
>>>> Mmmm. I may have to try this out!
>>>
>>> That's one way to do it, but just keep a 'virgin' install of TRLE on
>>> the HD, then when you're done, copy the files over to the folder
>>> with the one you just completed. I'm terrible about keeping things
>>> around like that. If it's a user level I enjoyed, like Sanctuary, I
>>> just keep it so I can replay any saved game any time. Honestly
>>> though, there aren't all that many that are SO good I hate erasing
>>> them. Sanctuary is definitely one of em though :) 
>>
>> Sanctuary is *excellent*. Theres no doubt that that guy is one
>> talented level designer. Not unlike the bar that was set by Neil
>> Manke for Quake and Half Life modding.
>>
>>> Wouldn't it be cool if someone could like create GS's "Tombstone" in
>>> TRLE? Heh!
>>
>> GS's??? Tombstone?
>
> <big limerant grin> Right! You know, Gordian Slash's TR FanFic Tales
> of the Croft?
>
> You *were* kidding, right?! Right?! Hmm.., Really?

I seriously didn't connect GS with Gordian Slash. How lame is that?!?!
D'oh!!!!

>
> Actually, it has been a goal of mine for quite a while to attempt to
> recreate any one of GS's Tales of the Croft adventures with the TRLE.
> I think once I get the hang creating a level with some scenarios I've
> been pondering, it *may* not be as daunting of an idea to try
> interpreting a tale to action. The Tales of the Croft read like TR
> games to me already. However, I am skeptical of my ability to find
> enough time in the *near* future necessary for simply *playing* TR,
> let alone something as challenging as paying tribute to the fan fic
> and do it right!
>
> That is, if I manage to gain the author's permission. lol
>
> Good grief! Look at the hour! Yikes! G'night all (or G'morning)!
>
> <trods off>

Sleep well!

>
> Ms T
> ever changing calm

Duncan
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 25, 2005 7:07:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...

> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D 20gtr$3a7$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>
>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:D 1vlbg$fs5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>
>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>> message news:D 1udgj$g0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>>>> message news:D 1ttpu$4m9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>>>> There I was, minding my own business, when McGrandpa said...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Thunderchief" <dnb@thunderchief1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> message news:D 1su4j$c3t$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> ...up to now...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm currently playing The Last Saga 4 by Tomo. The
>>>>>>>>>> Steelworks (Das Stalwerk?)...Wow. Completely and utterly
>>>>>>>>>> *wow*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If its not the weird arms in the walls, or the strange
>>>>>>>>>> half-nurse half-metal zombie things, the rooms with the toxic
>>>>>>>>>> gas are seriously weird to run through, and then theres the
>>>>>>>>>> very odd rooms with the broken and discarded tables or the
>>>>>>>>>> gurneys with the corpses on, or the half metal guys hanging
>>>>>>>>>> in the gibberts from the ceilings. The sounds effects will
>>>>>>>>>> give you nightmares for weeks :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Its worth grabbing this level just for this alone. The
>>>>>>>>>> spookiest AND weirdest TR experience I've come across.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey that sounds pretty cool! Reminiscent of a couple areas of
>>>>>>>>> AoD it is :) 
>>>>>>>>> McG.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've still not played AoD..I wonder if these levels were based
>>>>>>>> on the AoD ones? Whatever the case...very, very spooky :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, from the description these are not based on anything out of
>>>>>>> AoD at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok, so where did ya get it? I don't see that level in TRLE.NET,
>>>>>>> the big level base. Oh found it! Getting it from Lucs
>>>>>>> site...TRO?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep. Thats the one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>> does have some of the stuff in Engleesh in there ;) 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My download of this one was in German!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, it's only
>>>>>>> 129 megs, downloading now. Piega is also working on another
>>>>>>> trip back to the Sanctuary! Yaaaay! Man we are really
>>>>>>> fortunate to have these folks making some fantastic levels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We sure are!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Download Complete. Yes,
>>>>>>> I'm bragging, 600 KiloBytes per second! :o )))) 5 mbit connect
>>>>>>> :)  Gee and I thought it might take a while. 4 minutes total
>>>>>>> download time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.... ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, lessee...what else can I scarf up? Anyway, back to bed,
>>>>>>> long workday ahead...
>>>>>>> McG.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh no, I gotta play through three levels to get to Steel?!?! Ah
>>>>> well... it's a long holiday weekend :) 
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, btw.... know what I found to be the *easiest* way to get the
>>>>> user levels working, and keep them installed? I keep a "unused"
>>>>> level editor folder all set up and ready to go. When I get a new
>>>>> level to try out, I just copy that folder and give it another
>>>>> name, then install the level. I learnt this lesson installing
>>>>> Sanctuary of Ice, Water and Fire over another user level.
>>>>> Neither one worked! someone here in the ng suggested I do that.
>>>>> saves lots of aggravation :) 
>>>>
>>>> Ah! I've been finishing 'em and copying over the TRLE files so its
>>>> like a new install!
>>>>
>>>> Mmmm. I may have to try this out!
>>>>
>>>>> McG.
>>>>
>>>> Duncan
>>>
>>> That's one way to do it, but just keep a 'virgin' install of TRLE on
>>> the HD, then when you're done, copy the files over to the folder
>>> with the one you just completed. I'm terrible about keeping things
>>> around like that. If it's a user level I enjoyed, like Sanctuary, I
>>> just keep it so I can replay any saved game any time. Honestly
>>> though, there aren't all that many that are SO good I hate erasing
>>> them. Sanctuary is definitely one of em though :) 
>>
>> Sanctuary is *excellent*. Theres no doubt that that guy is one
>> talented level designer. Not unlike the bar that was set by Neil
>> Manke for Quake and Half Life modding.
>
> Um, I tink Piega is a 'she', actually :) 

I have no clue! Really! So apologies to Piega for my faux par!


>
>>
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be cool if someone could like create GS's "Tombstone" in
>>> TRLE? Heh!
>>
>> GS's??? Tombstone?
>
> Gordian Slash's story "Tombstone". Or Forerunner! Or Gauntlett! Or
> Pyramid! Gee, any of em really! :o )))

I should've been thinking harder. I really didn't associate GS with Gordian
Slash! D'oh!!

I blame the early morningness of my post. And lack of beer. <nods>


Duncan
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 27, 2005 2:03:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Rex Reynolds was heard, at
about 03/26/2005 01:35 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Gea1e.35246$Ux.16498@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>>"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>news:42452BEE.26FBC3BE@ix.nospam.netcom.com
<alt.snip.tiny>
>
> McG
> this is what I've managed to come up with sofar(from the how do I create a
> newsgroup, I believe the charter for this group must have been posted on the
> alt config group.
> btw what screen res are you trying to run the 'level editor' at? seem to
> recall it being picky about that.
> rex
<alt.snip.big>

Rex, I'm not sure who's question you're answering here ... I must have
missed the question.

But the level editor *says* it requires 1024x768. While that is
probably a good idea, you can run it at higher resolutions (I do).
Just, whatever you do, don't resize the window ... or it goes poof.
You definitely can not run it at any lower resolution.

---
PW
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 27, 2005 2:43:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Pistol Whipped" <pwhipped@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:o xv1e.1695$vd.1540@tornado.tampabay.rr.com
> In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Rex Reynolds was heard, at
> about 03/26/2005 01:35 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Gea1e.35246$Ux.16498@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>
>>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>> news:42452BEE.26FBC3BE@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> <alt.snip.tiny>
>>
>> McG
>> this is what I've managed to come up with sofar(from the how do I
>> create a newsgroup, I believe the charter for this group must have
>> been posted on the alt config group.
>> btw what screen res are you trying to run the 'level editor' at?
>> seem to recall it being picky about that.
>> rex
> <alt.snip.big>
>
> Rex, I'm not sure who's question you're answering here ... I must have
> missed the question.
>
> But the level editor *says* it requires 1024x768. While that is
> probably a good idea, you can run it at higher resolutions (I do).
> Just, whatever you do, don't resize the window ... or it goes poof.
> You definitely can not run it at any lower resolution.
>
> ---
> PW

I thought it worked well at 800x600? I know I run the screen at
1024x768, but in 1280x1024 I *did* resize that window. Maybe that's why
it didn't work then :) 
McG.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 28, 2005 4:33:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

no problem, McG answered it.
rex
"Pistol Whipped" <pwhipped@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:o xv1e.1695$vd.1540@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Rex Reynolds was heard, at
> about 03/26/2005 01:35 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Gea1e.35246$Ux.16498@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>
>>>"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>>news:42452BEE.26FBC3BE@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> <alt.snip.tiny>
>>
>> McG
>> this is what I've managed to come up with sofar(from the how do I create
>> a newsgroup, I believe the charter for this group must have been posted
>> on the alt config group.
>> btw what screen res are you trying to run the 'level editor' at? seem to
>> recall it being picky about that.
>> rex
> <alt.snip.big>
>
> Rex, I'm not sure who's question you're answering here ... I must have
> missed the question.
>
> But the level editor *says* it requires 1024x768. While that is probably
> a good idea, you can run it at higher resolutions (I do). Just, whatever
> you do, don't resize the window ... or it goes poof.
> You definitely can not run it at any lower resolution.
>
> ---
> PW
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 31, 2005 2:59:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

While taking a short break from the daily grind of enslavement and
world domination, Thunderchief mentioned

(snip)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bundaberg Rum - Breakfast of Champions (although we bikers swear by
>>>> a mixture of rum and Stone's Green Ginger Wine, cleans out the
>>>> morning pipes with a RUSH!!)
>>>
>>> Heh!! That might be not the best plan first thing in a morning! ;-)
>>>
>>> And hell!! Who'd mix *anything* with rum!?!?! :-)
>>>
>>
>> I tend to agree with you, a quality rum (CSR's Inner Circle 40 proof
>> for example) should be served and savoured over iceblocks only, like
>> "sippin whiskey". Mind you, quality rums are rare and therefore as
>> valuable as single malt Scotches.
>
>Do you have problems finding rums? Lambs Navy is excellent (Nelsons
>Blood!!) and of course...theres always Woods...now that stuff is good!!

Heavens no, we're WELL supplied with good dark rum here in Oz. Not
only the CSR Inner Circles I mentioned (there's about five or six in
the range) there are also the classics Old Kedge (aka "Old Sledge")
Red Mill, Bundaberg and a few imports (mainly Jamaican, but their
flavour is a bit light for my taste.

>
>> There are others though (like the white rums) which really don't
>> warrant the effort and are often *improved* by being mixed with
>> whatever's handy, --- brake fluid, bacon grease, squeezin's from slow
>> small animals. Anything to force the booze into the bloodstream as
>> quickly as possible, eh!
>
>Heh! It'd be a cold day in a really warm place before I had a white rum over
>a dark rum. Well maybe if it was disguised with...um...dark rum? ;-)

Our tastes and sentiments march together on this.

REMINISCENCE FOLLOWS:
When I was a young lad (only about 10 years old), I had the privilege
of knowing one of our WWI heroes.

He had been a Lighthorseman (Gallipoli and the Charge at Beersheba,
look 'em up as examples of heroic military exploits) and every evening
drank a glass of milk mixed with half a bottle of rum.

He was such an impressive old man and I remembered him so well (and
the rich fruity rum aroma he exuded) that when I became old enough I
tried this rum and milk lark and Lo! it was found to be good and I
looked upon it with favour!!

That was over forty years ago and he's been dead for nearly fifty
years now.

Thank you for reminding me of him. He was a wonderful kind old man and
very impressive to a young boy.

--

Sleep is a poor substitute for caffeine
OO
OO
OO
!