Build workstation w/ gaming parts?

aking

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I'm reposting my question in the format re-suggested yesterday.

I need help building a workstation, but at the cost of a gaming rig. Is it possible? I don't really understand the benefits of a workstation vs a gaming rig, and so I don't really understand the cost disparity.

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: this week
BUDGET RANGE: approx $2300 After Rebates, incl Win7 Pro and Office 2010
SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST: Adobe Suite (especially Photoshop, aftereffects, premier) I don't use these programs everyday, but when I do, I spend weeks working on something. Then I won't use it again like that for a couple of months.
PARTS NOT REQUIRED: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers
PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: doesn't matter, currently using cyberpower, but any place will do. I know some people despise these sites b/c they aren't home build, but I have limited time) http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Mega_Special_IV
PARTS PREFERENCES: Intel i7, and the nvidia 470 (I've heard that it's better than ati in the editing department)
OVERCLOCKING: Yes (if it doesn't pose a threat to my workstation, and if someone else can set it up for me, again, limed time and skill)
SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Probably not b/c it cost $$
MONITOR RESOLUTION: doesn't matter because I have several available to me, but right now i'm using 1680x1050


As far as the video card goes, I don't understand the difference between a workstation card and the 470. Someone told me it's just the level of support. Is that true? For the price, it seems that the workstation card isn't worth it.

Also, do i need the video to be liquid cooled as well?

This is what I've got so far: Mega Special IV
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Mega_Special_IV

I'm pretty much a noob, so thanks in advance for your input.
 
Solution
LOL, primarily the lack of reference to gaming and such. Since the budget has wiggle room, by all means choose whatever case you like as long as it passes our review here :) There are probably over 100 cases of many styles that will fit your needs. Considerations beyond style are quiet and cooling, possibly USB ports.

As to rendering times, that is mostly CPU bound. It can be mitigated further by offloading work to the GPU though, through CUDA... but not in the case of AE, which does not use CUDA according to my quick research.

So, the only place a video card is going to benefit you is in moving around an image, or panning and zooming, etc. GTS 250 would be fine.

Back to the case though. If you want a classy law-firm look I recommend...
Here what you need to do:

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD5 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 260$
i7-930
Four Cores, 8MB L3 Cache $289 or 200$ At Mircocenter
Memory Crucial 6GB DDR3-1333 Triple-Channel Kit
3 x 2GB (6GB Total), CAS 9-9-9-28 $168
3x 2Gb (6Gb Total) Cas 9-9-9-28 168$
x Gigabyte GV-N470D5-13I-B i
1.28GB GDDR5-3482
GeForce GTX 470 GPU at 607 MHz 350$
Hard Drive Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ
1TB, 7,200 RPM, 32MB Cache, SATA 3 Gb/s $80
Optical Cheap Ass DVDRW Optical 21$
8X BD-ROM, 12X DVD-ROM DL, 16X DVD±R $108
Case COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SEC $70
Power Corsair TX-950 $120
SSD: X-25m 160gb 430$
CPU Cooler Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B $62
CPU Fan Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12LM-P $11
Total Current Cost $1940


That's under 2k$.

YOu have room for software there.
 


Any changes Proxy?

I save my builds to a word file, and a folder, and I'm always lookin g for chages, not only could you help him, but you could help dozens of others.
 
Since he is working on 2D applications the GTX 470 is massive overkill. I do not see any major need for a workstation card however... perhaps if the OP will explain a bit more about the type of work being done.

Otherwise, a GTX 250 1GB would be fine...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133266
This is a PNY, since I trust their service dept a bit more.

If something better is needed, then the Quaddro FX 1800 would be far superior to the GTX 470:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133272
But this sort of thing is really for 3D work. Maya and such.

I would think a bit less SSD and a bit more HD would be just fine.

OCZ Vertex 120GB SSD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227395
Fast and affordable. For the OS and programs.

Caviar Green 2TB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136376&cm_re=Caviar-_-22-136-376-_-Product
For storage. That's a whole lot of photos.

As to the case and PSU, the OP will not need that much power. I'm going to guess the OP is older and will appreciate the more conservative style of a Lian Li case, which comes in combo with a very nice Seasonic PSU from newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.410799

This low voltage 12GB kit from G.skill caught my eye:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.410799
I imagine 1333 CL8 or even CL7 might be possible there, making it a good buy. If the OP is not dealing with very large files and will not have a lot of projects open at once, he can probably get buy with 6GB.

Let's throw that together with the rest of the build at newegg and see where it goes pricewise.

I7 930 and UD5 board
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.408721

LG Blu-ray burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136181
10% off through tomorrow, will handle all your optical media, you shouldn't need another.

MS Win 7 Pro FULL
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116717
It's pricey and we can reduce this if needed. The advantage here is
- You can install it on future computers, whereas you are limited with an OEM version
- It comes with 32 and 64 bit versions, although what you need is 64-bit.

MS Office home
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116856

 

aking

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Thanks for the input.

To clarify, I will be working in 3D space. AfterEffects is my number 1 reason for upgrading (should have mentioned that before). I spend hours waiting for a 3D sequence to render, then realize I want to tweak it, wait forever again, tweak, wait...etc.

Here are two quick examples that I could find: announcement1 and announcement2

I was sooo limited. I had to just stop working on them because it took so much time to tweak even one little thing, so I couldn't put the finishing touches on it that would turn it into something very cool.

Does that help?
 

aking

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WTF? unless 29 is "older"... lol What made you think I was old? I do work at law firm though, and the attorneys bitch if it's "too fancy".
 
LOL, primarily the lack of reference to gaming and such. Since the budget has wiggle room, by all means choose whatever case you like as long as it passes our review here :) There are probably over 100 cases of many styles that will fit your needs. Considerations beyond style are quiet and cooling, possibly USB ports.

As to rendering times, that is mostly CPU bound. It can be mitigated further by offloading work to the GPU though, through CUDA... but not in the case of AE, which does not use CUDA according to my quick research.

So, the only place a video card is going to benefit you is in moving around an image, or panning and zooming, etc. GTS 250 would be fine.

Back to the case though. If you want a classy law-firm look I recommend Silverstone. I use the TJ09 personally and it's full of class.... pricey though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163075&cm_re=tj09-_-11-163-075-_-Product
 
Solution

aking

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Yeah, I mostly play MW2 on 360. I figured out a few years ago that with kids, I don't have time to play more than one game. Nor do they give me a big enough allowance to buy gaming rigs.

The silvertones are nice cases. I spotted those on cyberpower, but they put me over budget. I've been using the kandalf case for a few years. It worked great until someone (not me) dropped it on its radiator/door, actually they let it fall out of their SUV on the pavement in front of the courthouse. Alas, it's also a little out dated now.
 


Nope.

Most Xeons are just noraml chips binned to run at lower voltage, so they last 60 years without failure instead of 16 years without failure, while being clocked lower and costing 3x as much.

No real point to them.

The Xeons that ARE diffrent, (more cores, more cache) are outrageously expensive, and would chew up almost your entrie budget with one chip.

Also, The CM 690 Advanced 2 isn't that flashy, it's very nice, and cheap.

And my ram is a better choice in my opinion.

Some people at Tom's agree with me, it was the RAM that receved steallr rewiews and was featured in the SMB contest.

And Photoshop uses GPU power. And a lot of it.

Why do you need a blue ray?

Also, Don't buy a quadro, it's just a normal overpriced card wiht flashed bios. You can do that yourself.

And the TX-950 is a fine choice, it is cheap, and awesome.

It might be overkill, but that like saying:

I went to a restaurant and ordered a hamburger for 5$, but instead I got a 5$ 16oz Beef Tenderloin steak, I hate this place!

Sure, beef tenderloin is "overkill" becuase hamburger will fill you up also. But Beef Tenderloin does a better job, and at the same price (In this senariop)
 
My opinion (been through this tons of times) is that self-built is not a good idea for a business if problems with it could put your job in jeapordy. I buy pre-built junk at my business because all problems get blamed on HP or insight and I just have to deal with their RMA depts to get it resolved.

IMO, Self built and business only go together once you are large enough to stock spare PCs and have at least one full time computer tech.
 

aking

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I have to agree with dnd. If crap hits the fan, and I've built the machine, to whom do I turn? And you know how it goes, things never go wrong when you have time to deal with it.
 
That's why I suggested using a local builder. For instance, in my town, we have several businesses that build and service office machines. You get quick service and a real person to talk with. Most of them would be delighted to build your machine for you and warranty it.

You can have a dual Xeon WS, and it will probably be faster in AE. There would be a price jump for sure.... around 400 for the board and 300 or so per CPU. It would however be slower in programs that cannot use multiple CPUs.
 

aking

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Now if I could find a local person who actually knows what they're doing, that would rock. Anyone know somebody GOOD in Houston? I'm really tired of doing the job of the technicians I hire.
 
CyberPower is fine and the cost of a Building (Yourself) vs CyberPower is negligible at best. For my office [workstation PCs] they built 15 with NO problems. My profession revolves around databases and our servers all run dual Xeon; we do very little Photoshop, but some Flash.

For myself, I find little "joy" in building non-WOW PCs, CyberPower did an excellent job (good wiring/setup/etc) + offer a 3-year warranty.

HOWEVER, a true [Workstation] as mentioned above generally runs on Xeon (dual) and if you are running CAD / VIDEO / 3D rendering for commercial, CyberPower is NOT for you. Mainstream GPUs are NOT part of the Professional Workstaion, and the PRO GPUs are EXPENSIVE!!! A mid-level single GPU cost $600-$800+++.

Pro GPU; Quality vs Quantity:
1. nVidia - http://www.nvidia.com/page/workstation.html
2. ATI - http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/Pages/workstation.aspx
* ATI - 2D/3D - http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/Pages/workstation-graphics.aspx

Workstation PC Builders (Dell & HP - Workstations don't remotely compare to their consumer lines w/professional lines ; people saying otherwise don't know what they're talking about)
AVA Direct - http://workstations.avadirect.com/Workstations
Maingear - http://www.maingear.com/quadro-adobecs5/
HP - http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/z-workstations/
Dell - http://www.dell.com/workstations
 

aking

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So what would you suggest for a workstation within budget, and would it perform as well as the gaming station? After all, I don't run on that stuff everyday? My typical workload is Word and Acrobat, nothing huge. But when I do run AE, I need it to work well enough so I'm not cursing the thing for the smallest edits.
 


For starts Xeon runs MS Windows just fine, and all of the Productivity apps. There are people "gaming" on Xeon CPUs. It "Sounds" like you are exploring a new realm into pro level quality. IF you are working on web-based projects vs movies/publication/CAD then don't bother with any of this, but instead look more "mainstream."

No, you will find professional GPUs are geared towards "hyper-accurate" rendering NOT 70+ FPS gaming.

Therefore, what EXACTLY do you do for a living using all the Adobe apps you mentioned??
 

aking

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I am exploring a new realm. I built a gaming machine a few years ago, but used it for video editing and normal work stuff (word, excel, etc.). Now I'm moving toward animation. I work at a law firm where I'm the everything guy. We use acrobat extensively for portfolios, ocr'ing, file storage, etc.

Sometimes, like for trial, I might try an animation of a brain swelling, of some other CSI like thing. I'm also doing this because I'm going to start animation classes in the fall, so I'm using my excuse at work to buy a new computer as an excuse to build a more apt editing/animating rig.
 


I would recommend keeping to the i7 and perhaps using (2) GPUs. The nVidia 470 that you mentioned is obviously great for gaming (good cost:FPS), and nVida Quadro line. Typically, the class(es) will give you a recommended GPU. I wouldn't spend a ton ($150-$500) on the pro GPU.

As you "determine" how much you actually "like" doing animation then you can always trade-up. However, spending $2,000+ on a [very specific] Xeon Workstation "I fell" would be ill advised. Pros spend $5,000 - $15,000+ for their single-purpose machines. If and when you get employed by one of those companies they'll supply you with a workstation.
 

aking

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The question I have about the quadro line is that their specs seem outdated (DirectX 10, Open GL 3.0, DDR3). For the money (410.99 @ overstock) the ATI v5800 looks like the best option. Is there a reason why people prefer the nvidia over this?
 

aking

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That is something that I would love to be true. Do you know of any performance tests comparing similar cards in a design situation?