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CeBIT 2011: AMD Demos Llano Behind Closed Doors

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March 3, 2011 11:05:50 PM

Not bad but still wanting more.
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-1
March 3, 2011 11:13:17 PM

APU's are cool especially for cheap mobile gaming but I'm still looking forward to the more powerful CPU's AMD will be offering WITHOUT integrated graphics.
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4
Anonymous
March 3, 2011 11:47:24 PM

Cool, me i encode a lot.. so what about ENCODING... with handbrake ?! can't wait to see the results.

gj AMD... i was losing hope but its back now!
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0
March 3, 2011 11:51:08 PM

Seems to be pretty good, but the price matters dramatically, for a $600-700 laptop this would be very good performance, but if the Phenom cores have not changed much then the clock speed really does need to go up to say 2.4GHz at least, with 2.8GHz+ being more ideal.
For a quad-core 2 GHz will probably be OK, but not that many applications really benefit, and for multitasking AMD will need to pull through with the software.

For the GPU, I would say 200SP's should be the minimum, and from the HD 3000 to Llano comparison I would peg the GPU at that. At 200 SP's it would be very decent for mainstream gaming at lower resolutions, playing most games quite smoothly at low-mid settings. However Llano could take a larger and higher chunk out if it gets a few versions with 300 or 400SP's.

All-in-all, this current 4 core, 1.8GHz, ~200SP version is very respectable and has a lot of potential, but AMD needs marketing, deals with OEMs, and more marketing.

What would I prefer? A 2 core, 2.6Ghz over this CPU, and maybe just a bit more SP's.
Oh! And overclocking support.
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-1
March 4, 2011 12:17:43 AM

In regards to your guys request for information about how we are using our systems. I am probably a horrible case...


I almost always choose to run games in windowed mode (FFXIV for example) and am often surfing the fan sites, youtube, etc while I am also running the game in the background and quickly switching back and forth. I've also began using Office to write papers at the same time and as well sometimes have a 1080p or 720p movie playing pinned to top while I'm doing so...

So yes, those sort of uses are growing increasingly appealing to me. I find that we don't even realize it sometimes but as the technology allows we are beginning to multitask with it in a natural and almost unconscious manner.

I don't do those things because I know I can and I should. I do those things because I now can and they seem natural progressions for my usage.
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1
March 4, 2011 12:27:40 AM

I'm with you epdark. Even when I'm playing WoW, I'm often looking at YouTube to research upcoming fights and WoWwiki for info on various abilities. You're not a horrible case at all :) 

Chris
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3
March 4, 2011 1:05:16 AM

I sometimes render an animation in Blender, listen to music, have Firefox open on one monitor and a full screen game open on the other. This doesn't work very well on my Athlon X2 4800. I'd be interested to see how it would work on a modern CPU.
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1
March 4, 2011 1:26:00 AM

What does Quick Sync do for HD vid playback? Shouldn't it almost eliminate processor and graphics workload, or do I misunderstand it?
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0
March 4, 2011 1:42:43 AM

I normally play RS in resizeable mode while watching youtube video's, RS is very CPU-intensive (Grand Exchange) as well as quite graphics hungry in some areas.

GPU does the rendering (RS graphics and Youtube video processing) while the CPU cores also do rendering for RS, as well as animation processing.

Can be quite taxing on a system, especially my laptop with a Radeon 4530 and a C2D 2.2GHz.
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0
March 4, 2011 3:16:25 AM

Idle power consumption is once again dominated by Intel...why?

My priorities for laptops are such:
1. As light and durable as possible for the given size
2. Good Screen (non-glossy, high resolution, outdoor viewable, high gamut)
3. Long battery life - 8 hrs seems a reasonable compromise

If I'm doing something resource-intensive, I'll sit behind a desktop.

Given that most multi-tasking still results in an idle state most of the time, I can't see how AMD is competitive on point #3 while having double the idle power consumption of Intel.

2x more idle?...AMD is really doing something wrong.
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-2
March 4, 2011 3:21:18 AM

I forget one other element...must have trackpoint. Trackpads bring on carpal tunnel...
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-1
March 4, 2011 3:26:10 AM

sabot00For a quad-core 2 GHz will probably be OK, but not that many applications really benefit, and for multitasking AMD will need to pull through with the software.
That used to be the case. Welcome to 2011. ;) 
sabot00What would I prefer? A 2 core, 2.6Ghz over this CPU, and maybe just a bit more SP's.
Ah, but in many cases, the 2Ghz part would be faster, more efficient, support better multitasking, and be more future proof. Also, they might implement Turbo, so if you're only taxing two cores, it could very nearly match the dual core part even in worst-case scenarios. Overall, the lower clocked quad core part is just a much better CPU.

For those rare cases in which a dual core makes sense (or if you can't afford the quad core version but still want Llano APU for lappy) they will have dual core models. But clock speeds are unknown. I don't think 2.6Ghz is an unreasonable target, though!
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0
March 4, 2011 6:03:39 AM

point well presented here by AMD its indeed not the performance of one component but the whole system working in harmony to give best out of each individual component.
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1
March 4, 2011 6:44:15 AM

there is a scenario that i use a lot.
put a file to copy in the background. generally a 1 g file. I then play a movie.

another one is playing a movie while encoding is going on in the background.
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0
March 4, 2011 12:05:08 PM

Guys, remember that Llano will not only have turbo, but a better variant than Thuban. So depending on workload it surely won't behave like a 1.8 GHz quad core Phenom II.

I also think that idle will go down. The CPU in the demo notbook has production been started maybe 4 months ago -> wafer processing, packaging, test (1Q), delivery to sample customer (1Wk), inclusion in prototype NB (1Wk), system preparation for CeBit (1Wk).
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0
March 4, 2011 12:33:45 PM

At work my workload looks like this:
Always open -
Internet Explorer - two tabs - helpdesk that refreshes every 30 seconds and our corporate intranet that refreshes when updated
Google Chrome - one to four tabs - my yahoo with RSS feeds from all kinds of security and tech sites, CDW for price checking, Dell premier page for pricing and tech support
RadioReference live Emergency services radio (scanner) stream for the county (usually in a web player window)
Outlook 2010 for corporate e-mail
Symantec Endpoint Protection
Printkey screen capture
UltraVNC Server
iTunes for iphone sync, podcast and application updates

Apps launched throughout the day to add to the load
Word, Excel, and Access 2010 - Word usually 1-2 documents at a time, Excel usually always 2 sheets at a time, and Access one database with 10 tables, usually 1-2 open at a time
Adobe Reader for PDF
Paint, Notepad
VNC Viewer
CDBurnerXP for CDs and DVDs
Windows Virtual PC -- 10GB Image of WIndows XP Pro
I am sure there are other apps i am missing
Wolfdale E8400 3Ghz Dual Core
8GB DDR2
500GB WD Caviar
ATI Fire Pro PCI-e 16x running 22" 1920x1080 & 19" 1600x1200 LCD
ATI Fire MV PCI-e 1X running 19" 1600x1200 LCD
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit
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0
Anonymous
March 4, 2011 12:46:32 PM

Why didn't AMD test it against Sandy Bridge?
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-3
March 4, 2011 12:49:02 PM

@rav555 - They did. Core i7-2630QM is a Sandy Bridge part, as the article frequently mentions.
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March 4, 2011 1:15:57 PM

rav555Why didn't AMD test it against Sandy Bridge?


Why didn't you read the article?
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4
March 4, 2011 1:26:22 PM

fk fusion..Give us a good goddamn CPU that can take on SB :@
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-1
Anonymous
March 4, 2011 1:48:33 PM

@hardcore_gamer
i7-2630...... guess that dont qualify as sandy bridge in your books

@dmytty
you want 8 hours battery and dont care for horse power then your looking at the wrong platform, Brazo should be in your sights not Llano
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0
March 4, 2011 1:53:01 PM

Fusion looks great for the mobile sector. I would almost certainly buy a fusion AMD CPU over a SB CPU for a netbook / lappy.

You have to think that it would be a good idea for the desktop crowd as well. Those that use their PC for gaming, though, would probably steer clear of the fusion and opt for a BD or SB. But there are many many people out there that want good rig that can deliver high quality video playback and be stressed in background apps without hiccups and the need to invest in a discrete GPU (or crappy integrated GPU).

Does AMD plan on bringing the fusion tech to desktops? And if they did, would it be possible to enhance and boost performance of any ATi/AMD graphics card in the system? that would be /drool
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1
March 4, 2011 2:04:06 PM

pelov - Excellent questions!
John Taylor mentioned that retail laptops will support some kind of hybrid Crossfire if companies choose to equip their products with a dedicated (AMD) GPU.
It's certainly possible that we will see a similar tech on the desktop. And yes, Llano is most definitely coming to the desktop, it will just be appearing a little later there.
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1
March 4, 2011 2:12:04 PM

For the gaming crowd, APU would be an absolute god-send then. If the power of the integrated GPU can be crossfired with an already powerful discrete GPU -- and with proper scaling, namely what AMD claims to achieve in the 6990 -- you would have an amazing gaming rig! :D 

From what I'm reading on the web, Llano isn't based on the bulldozer cores (actually based on stars cores) and nor does it have any l3 cache. For the desktop I'd assume it would see a boost in l2 and a chunk of l3 cache, but does AMD plan on releasing an APU with BD cores for the desktop like we've seen in the videos?
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0
a b À AMD
March 4, 2011 2:13:51 PM

I might be an extreme case, as I currently use 2 computers similtaniously (bore Core 2 Duos, one desktop, one laptop) the desktop will be doing a full screen game, while the laptop has web browsers, music and/or music videos (and is sometimes streaming said music to others), IM, and so on.
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0
March 4, 2011 3:12:33 PM

Always have firefox (newest beta with gpu graphics) with like 11 or more tabs up with a game, (atm World of Tanks) and also maybe google docs or a pdf up at the same time.

This solution seems awesome for that workload.
Is there any way to make it so that you could use both your integrated card and also dedicated card at the same time? (And yes i mean at the same time, not switchable like optimus and such, so that I can have maximum performance in BOTH scenarios running in parallel)
Like have the integrated card take care of aero and gpu firefox and youtube and such, while having the dedicated card focus solely on game/rendering/etc. main graphics task.

That would be an awesome feature.
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1
March 4, 2011 3:31:50 PM

It will be interesting to see what the future holds.
Personally I'd like to see the graphics part get extremely powerful. Enough that you could buy a cheap laptop and play Crysis. (No jokes intended.) OR powerfull enough that we don't have to spend $250+ on video cards every 2 or 3 years just to keep the frame rates from dropping to 10fps. OR maybe these can be used to increase the performance of your descrete graphics (someday in the future)...
On the other hand not much of this will be nessary if cloud gaming becomes popular. But I think Onlive has thier work cut out for them. Currently I only have a modest desire to play the games they have available. It would be a different story if Steam gave the option of cloud gaming. Finally I could play games like Left for Dead 2 on my laptop! :) 
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0
March 4, 2011 4:27:24 PM

Sorry for AMD, but it's too late. I've already delayed my scheduled upgrade from yonah to SB because ot the errata; cannot wait anymore for a new latop.
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-1
March 4, 2011 4:43:08 PM

Would be nice to compare this w/ Sandy Bridge's QuickSync. That's the killer feature for HTPC's IMHO...transcoding to get rid of commercials w/o nearly zero cpu time...
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0
Anonymous
March 4, 2011 4:58:55 PM

Some thoughts on concurrent workloads that I run:

VirtualBox running Fedora 14, running make on a project using gcc.
VirtualBox running Solaris 11, running make on a project using gcc.
Video encoding/transcoding on Windows 7 Professional desktop.
Firefox with about 6-8 tabs.

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0
March 4, 2011 5:56:52 PM

AMD is definately on to something. It really irks me when my computer hangs even though cpu use is at 1-5%. Of course that is caused by the hard drive and AMD can't or won't address that issue (despite my repeated pleas for an integrated SSD controller!). But there is one situation that they should be able to address: watching a video on youtube and playing an adobe AIR based game like League of Legends. When I play a video in the background, my ingame framerate drops to 5 fps even though my video card is way beyond what the game requires. That sort of thing is irritating and worst of all there is not much discussion on the various forums. (Doesnt anyone play videos while gaming?) I have to download the clips and watch them on vlc player. (VLC works without a problem.)
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0
March 4, 2011 5:57:40 PM

My normal workload at home. Dual monitor setup, with a movie running on the 2nd monitor. Usually a game running on the primary monitor, as well has having at least one spreedsheet open, firefox with multiple windows open(some with additional tabs), and a half dozen other low profile apps open. Not counting other things in the system tray. I often have downloads going on in the background beyond that. If i dont have a movie playing on the 2nd monitor, i likely have music playing instead.

So yes, i definitely care if it can handle multitasking well or not. Single app performance is so 2000. There is no way id buy a dual core cpu anymore. Tho i still use a dual core at work and its sufficient for my workload there. I use a tri core at home and its completely sufficient for my workload.
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0
Anonymous
March 4, 2011 9:30:52 PM

A great workload would be downloading (a broadband hdtv movie) while watching a broadband hdtv movie while ripping multiple CD/DVD , extracting some RAR or more advanced encrypted files and a game paused in the background and running windows update. done this on a maxed out dual pentium III (without the hdtv) and never found an intel system since to do the same. the hardest workload was, you guest it, the windows update.
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0
March 4, 2011 9:50:42 PM

Integrated graphics is more than 80% of the PC market. Just think how many of the corporate PCs have discrete graphics? Almost none. How many people buy HP, Dell, Gateway, Acer for $5-600 with discrete graphics at Walmart, Costco, Best Buy etc ? Almost none. The portable market has ~98% integrated graphics, the PC market has ~80% integrated graphics. Whoever can offer the best (understand cheaper for OEM integration) good enough performing APU, will have the market advantage...AMD is doing quite well here. If they gain popularity with APU platform and start getting some Open CL applications, they can further target high performance systems, where NVidia's GPGPUs are currently the king. That is 50% + NET profit type of market, much better than the server market.

AMD's only risk is if ARM processor advance explosively and gain the mainstream desktop...My guess is, they have maybe a year or two before it happens. Intel is not scared of other architectures. Intel is the top process manufacturer, they can afford to make anything better and cheaper, including ARM if they decide so.

Anyway, LLano is a great technology, I hope AMD can market it smartly.
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1
March 4, 2011 10:55:36 PM

The amount of SPAM on Tom's pathetic. Get some decent CAPTCHA and account verification controls on your login. Then start banning accounts. This is 2011 now, Why are your running a tech site like 2001?
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3
March 4, 2011 11:13:44 PM

amk09APU's are cool especially for cheap mobile gaming but I'm still looking forward to the more powerful CPU's AMD will be offering WITHOUT integrated graphics.

Heck, I'd still be looking forward to the more powerful CPUs even if they DID have an on-die graphics processor. It never hurts to have a backup for the day your discrete card bites the dust... :D 
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0
March 5, 2011 5:01:50 AM

Currently I'm running:

VMware workstation with two 64bit FreeBSD servers running.
vSphere client running
two chrome windows with 8 tabs each(13 forum, pandora, facebook, gmail).

All being run on my laptop. This doesn't include everyday software: Office, anti-virus, media play, vlc. I need something smaller, lighter, and cooler, than my current 3.2lb i5. That happens I'll be first in line.
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0
March 5, 2011 8:34:34 AM

wow...just look at that crappy FPS...a standalone video card is still the best solution
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0
March 5, 2011 1:40:51 PM

That only with sandy integrated video solution. Sandy processor is a lot more powerfull compared to amd new cpu. Can't wait to see CPU benchmark lol. But yeah for integrated video solution amd will lead if they put that on the market we cant judge on a prototype.
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0
March 5, 2011 1:44:55 PM

t7yivn45hfMy normal workload at home. Dual monitor setup, with a movie running on the 2nd monitor. Usually a game running on the primary monitor, as well has having at least one spreedsheet open, firefox with multiple windows open(some with additional tabs), and a half dozen other low profile apps open. Not counting other things in the system tray. I often have downloads going on in the background beyond that. If i dont have a movie playing on the 2nd monitor, i likely have music playing instead.So yes, i definitely care if it can handle multitasking well or not. Single app performance is so 2000. There is no way id buy a dual core cpu anymore. Tho i still use a dual core at work and its sufficient for my workload there. I use a tri core at home and its completely sufficient for my workload.


Why would you play a game and watch a movie on 2 monitor. Doesn't make any sense ! I guess you are the kind of guy that have a SLI config and play Counter-Strike 1.6
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0
March 5, 2011 2:23:04 PM

What about performance while multi-boxing? Running 2-4 game clients at once, all in windowed mode and viewed at the same time? Does one type of GPU handle it better than the other?
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0
March 5, 2011 3:19:13 PM

Good going amd....bring it as early as possible....if this APU can excel SB with its k10 stars architecture....then what gonna happen when fusion processors will be using bulldozer cores in 2012....but sadly then there will be ivy bridge too....
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0
March 5, 2011 3:20:42 PM

I was only suspecting that the APU would overpower the intel corei in graphics performance.
Do any serious number crunching, and even the mobile core i outpaces the AMD apu.

It's an interesting chip for those wanting to game, but AMD needs to seriously cut power on low power states. The majority of the time a used computer is passive, not active, and these mobile chips are aimed towards battery life,
So AMD really needs to get that bios bug fixed, and lower power to USB ports, inactive cores, and the graphics card when on standby; preferrably downclocking the whole system to a point where voltages can be set really low!
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0
a b À AMD
March 5, 2011 8:36:21 PM

id like your benchmarks to have a more realistic setup of AVG or something running a scan in the background while something is downloading from the net, outlook and word should be open and a web browser. That is a more realistic workload for an average user. any dual core cpu should handle that. I dont thing the average user, or an advanced user, will ever do some cad modelling while running a game in the background and watching a video.......and since the cpu is aimed at general users is a pointless benchmark.
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0
March 5, 2011 10:21:14 PM

for me, multi tasking started back on win95 w/usb
pentium mmx 200mhz
pci 3D orchid 8mb
4gb ata66
128mb edo on an hp 17" crt
i would run IE for news or game mod searches and d/l, aol(for the IM w/ g/f and friends), winamp, total annihlation/starcraft/diablo/sin/rainbow6

now days winxp pro sp2
c2q9550
gtx275oc
3gb ddr2 1066
sata2 500gb7200rpmWD
always multitasked with:
IE/firefox with about 8-9 tabs for 6 news 2-3 youtube videos, office-(for taking notes about what i am reading watching on youtube), music or media player video, d/l'ing something directly or torrent, 1-2 mmopg 2005-8'ish game clients (graw2/supcom2/old @$$ diablo2/sc aerial view style games) and sometimes either ripping a cd/dvd or burning cd/dvd (sometimes disc2disc when i am running 1 game only), and occassionaly something like fraps for cheaters in the game.
all at the same time.
oh and occassionaly an IM like pidgin.
ya that's me on a daily basis, it's fun to have ADD, it keeps everybody else scratching their heads!
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0
March 5, 2011 10:22:58 PM

oh and 2 19"lcd@ 1280x1024
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Anonymous
March 8, 2011 4:46:03 AM

Academic level 3D level design workflow:
3dsMax, Mudbox and Photoshop, at the same time, working with multiple 4k image files.
Trying to do anything heavy while 3dsmax is rendering is the true test. :D 
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