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TR7/Legend website question

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Anonymous
April 13, 2005 4:45:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Hey Raiders, ;) 

Can someone with broadband go here...
http://www.tombraider.com/main.html

.... And tell me if that 17meg 3D Screen is worth
downloading over very slow 36k dial-up? ;) 

Do we get to see any character animation? -Or is
it just like a screenshot in 3D, or what? :) 

Cheers,

--
};> Matt v3.2 <:{
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 4:45:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Not really, its just a looping program of her standing on the top of a
waterfall and crouching slightly. You can zoom in a bit, not very exciting
and I dont know why its a 17 meg file!


"mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz...
> Hey Raiders, ;) 
>
> Can someone with broadband go here...
> http://www.tombraider.com/main.html
>
> ... And tell me if that 17meg 3D Screen is worth
> downloading over very slow 36k dial-up? ;) 
>
> Do we get to see any character animation? -Or is
> it just like a screenshot in 3D, or what? :) 
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> };> Matt v3.2 <:{
>
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 4:45:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz
> Hey Raiders, ;) 
>
> Can someone with broadband go here...
> http://www.tombraider.com/main.html
>
> ... And tell me if that 17meg 3D Screen is worth
> downloading over very slow 36k dial-up? ;) 
>
> Do we get to see any character animation? -Or is
> it just like a screenshot in 3D, or what? :) 
>
> Cheers,

downloading it now, the picture looks good!

I have a 5 Mbit connection, the site is slow....but still a lot faster
than dialup.

will let the group know!
McG.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 4:45:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz
> Hey Raiders, ;) 
>
> Can someone with broadband go here...
> http://www.tombraider.com/main.html
>
> ... And tell me if that 17meg 3D Screen is worth
> downloading over very slow 36k dial-up? ;) 
>
> Do we get to see any character animation? -Or is
> it just like a screenshot in 3D, or what? :) 
>
> Cheers,

It's a Macromedia Flash 7 '3D' animation loop with a little bit of zoom
and rotate control. Lara is stooping at the edge of a waterfall. Looks
like Lara is NOT going to be as completely 'cartooney' as CD is noted
for with their current games. It will look better than TRLR and similar
to AoD but brighter. IF it looks like this little Flash thing.

IF the game looks like this then it will look better (Lara will) than
what Gary and I were talking about earlier. I'll buy it and play it,
after all it IS Lara Croft and Tombraiding :) 

McG.
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 4:45:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz...
> Hey Raiders, ;) 
>
> Can someone with broadband go here...
> http://www.tombraider.com/main.html
>
> ... And tell me if that 17meg 3D Screen is worth
> downloading over very slow 36k dial-up? ;) 
>
> Do we get to see any character animation? -Or is
> it just like a screenshot in 3D, or what? :) 
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> };> Matt v3.2 <:{
>

Here is the press release from the same site.

EIDOS UNVEILS FIRST DETAILS OF LARA CROFT TOMB RAIDER: LEGEND


World's Best-Known Digital Entertainment Icon Gets Fresh Start From New
Team, New Look, New Adventure

San Francisco, CA (April 5, 2005) - Eidos (NASDAQ: EIDSY), one of the
world's leading publishers and developers of entertainment software, today
reveals the first details, including title, in-game character model and
brand direction, of the next adventure for video gaming's leading lady. Lara
Croft Tomb Raider: Legend is grounded in Lara Croft's tomb raiding roots and
built to challenge even the most accomplished serial adventurer.

"In setting the stage for the Tomb Raider franchise moving forward, we took
ourselves back to Lara's origins, asked ourselves the hard questions and
challenged ourselves to think differently," said Chip Blundell, vice
president of brand marketing, Eidos Inc. "Who is Lara Croft? What makes her
tick? How is she relevant today? Only by answering these questions could we
ensure that gamers get the experience they deserve with the character they
love."

Eighteen months ago, Tomb Raider team members at Crystal Dynamics embarked
on their own quest to rediscover Lara Croft. During their soul-searching
mission, they unearthed past consumer surveys, conducted new research,
re-read every game review, listened to lots of passionate pleas and opinions
from gamers and re-played through every Tomb Raider product. From this
introspection and open-minded search for a fresh perspective, Tomb Raider:
Legend was born.

As a result, Eidos is evolving the brand while building on the original
values of compelling character and suspense-filled adventure gameplay.
Crystal Dynamics has brought together the biggest and most diverse
development team in Tomb Raider history and recruited Lara Croft's original
creator Toby Gard as the lead character designer.

"Even before the first title launched, Lara Croft had to fight her way into
the Tomb Raider franchise, since at the time most game characters were
muscle-bound blokes," said Gard. "The Lara Croft character is resilient and
totally unstoppable. In Tomb Raider: Legend, we explore these core
personality traits and reveal the Lara Croft gamers have been waiting to
see."

Tomb Raider: Legend revives the athletic, intelligent and entertaining
adventurer who won the hearts and minds of gamers worldwide. Lara comes
alive with intricately animated expressions, moves and abilities. An arsenal
of modern equipment, such as a magnetic grappling device, binoculars, frag
grenades, personal lighting device and communications equipment, allows
gamers to experience tomb raiding as never before.

Eidos and Crystal Dynamics shaped Lara's look and movements to be an
inherent extension of her skills, motivation and personality. Lara's
character model features natural structure, realistic textures, detailed
facial features, reactive eyes and fluid motion, all of which make her part
of a living environment.

New character animations and controls allow her to move through stunning
environments with grace and precision, while an understanding of the game's
original appeal reinvigorates the fundamental explore-and-solve adventure
experience.

Tomb Raider: Legend is slated for release on the PlayStation(r)2 computer
entertainment system, PC and the Xbox(r) video game system from Microsoft.
More details will be revealed on www.tombraider.com beginning April 12.

Mean Marine
Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 4:45:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Sorry forgot to say it is a 3D animation and the camera circles Lara, which
you can control slightly. It's not very interesting, I was hoping for more.
They'd be better off releasing a demo level.


"Stormstruck" <stormstruck_@NOSPAMMYhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:425c70a8$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
> Not really, its just a looping program of her standing on the top of a
> waterfall and crouching slightly. You can zoom in a bit, not very
> exciting and I dont know why its a 17 meg file!
>
>
> "mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz...
>> Hey Raiders, ;) 
>>
>> Can someone with broadband go here...
>> http://www.tombraider.com/main.html
>>
>> ... And tell me if that 17meg 3D Screen is worth
>> downloading over very slow 36k dial-up? ;) 
>>
>> Do we get to see any character animation? -Or is
>> it just like a screenshot in 3D, or what? :) 
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> };> Matt v3.2 <:{
>>
>
>
April 13, 2005 4:45:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:vE_6e.56644$1H3.54864@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz
>> Hey Raiders, ;) 
> snip < It's a Macromedia Flash 7 '3D' animation loop with a little bit
> of zoom and rotate control. Lara is stooping at the edge of a
> waterfall. Looks like Lara is NOT going to be as completely
> 'cartooney' as CD is noted for with their current games. It will look
> better than TRLR and similar to AoD but brighter. IF it looks like
> this little Flash thing.
>
> IF the game looks like this then it will look better (Lara will) than
> what Gary and I were talking about earlier. I'll buy it and play
> it, after all it IS Lara Croft and Tombraiding :) 
>
> McG.
hmmm ... at the first look I must admit that finally there's hope. The
screenshots are recalling memorys from TR3 (Jungle levels) and TRLR.
(Cambodia level), only the face isn't that Lara like it should be. My
only fear is, we will receive another dumbed down game to please the
softcore gamers. Wouldn't it beeing nice to have another long lasting
adventure as TRLR?

Maybe it have been discussed in past, but what a game would it be,
combining some of the GTASA features into TR? Every vehicle is usable.
Woww ... driving, biking, boating and maybe flying? You should be able
to pick up your enemys/friends weapons. Maps should be open so you can
go back and forward between the various levels you've opened. This gives
also alternative solutions to solve missions. Maybe on this lines -
she's in some lost place with a big lake, there's an old airplane wreck,
and a boat. Fix the plane and you go to next point fast, but first you
have to search for replacment parts, use the boat but you have to row,
or use part's from the airplan to fix the boat you so you get an
motorboat, or you simply take the long way and go by foot,
discovering/collecting usfull stuff.
An limited inventory would be fine, but would be better if you can equip
her with mission specific gear, better every weapon/gadget/ammo has an
weight/volume factor, the more weight, the slower she moves. So it could
become neccessary to leave equipment behind to swim through an river or
to make that extra long jump. Same with heavy clothing, heavy clothing
impeds your swimming skills.
Imagine all begins with an nice old fashioned training level in her
mansion, she get's an phone call, to prepare for her adventure, she hang
up the phone, goes to to the closet for appropriate dressing, then to
her weapons room, and last but not least you might select her prefered
vehicle in the garage, and there she goes.
The training level should have an influence on her abilities. The more
she trains the better she becomes doing things. The chocolate bars in
TRAOD weren't that bad, but wouldn't it be better that she needs food to
have stamina or to build up phisical shape? But to much food would make
her fat.? Try to do some kind of "Madubu Gorge" level with those angled
long jumps with an fat Lara .... hehehe .... or she's to fat to enter
the Kayak, so she has to find and use an big raft to navigate down the
river. ;-)
Then - more technicaly correct puzzles, especially in modern structures.
This means, that normaly the main master switch for electicity is in the
basement of an house, and not at the 13th floor. ;-). Or those wiered
levers on the Maria Doria level in TR2, put those switches where they
would be located on a real ship.
And if they stuck to that Money they used in TRAOD, there should be
better use for it. Some shops here and there to buy food, clothes, arms,
ammo etc. or the possibility to return home to mansion, to train
abilitys for a mission/adventure you can't handle yet. This would also
be a mega oportunity for product placement, let pay VISA or AMEXCO for
using Lara an ingame creditcard.
And last since Lara isn't an criminal, there should be an distiction
between "friendly enemys" (e.g. securty guards, police officers,
bystanders) and "hostile enemys", so if you kill an "friendly" this has
an influence on your game. Not neccessarily an imediate one, try to
imagine the "Area 51" level in TR3 - you kill silently some of the
guards, you pass the level. But further on, when you get to London,
there would be Interpol searching for you, making the whole level a lot
harder.

All of the isn't new, but it would be new in combination with Lara
Croft, and it would't have a bad effect on the game since IMHO it would
improve it.

Hoping Mr. Gard is reading, maybe picking up some thought, he still has
7 to 12 months left, trying to get it rigth.

An almost always friendly

Ghost































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Anonymous
April 13, 2005 6:10:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Stormstruck typed:

>> Not really, its just a looping program of her
>> standing on the top of a waterfall and crouching
>> slightly. You can zoom in a bit, not very
>> exciting and I dont know why its a 17 meg file!

That was what I was wondering! ;)  I've seen 3D
panoramic photos before and they're nowhere near
17meg, so I thought there might be something more
to it than just that. (Oh well...)

> Sorry forgot to say it is a 3D animation and the
> camera circles Lara, which you can control slightly.

Ah. But Lara herself is not moving or anything?

> It's not very interesting, I was hoping for more.

In that case, I'll not bother. ;)  (Thanks, though)

> They'd be better off releasing a demo level.

They're probably not that far into development- (?)
(I suppose, they only just announced it...)


--
};> Matt v3.2 <:{
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 6:10:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:425c7fc6$1@clear.net.nz
> Stormstruck typed:
>
>>> Not really, its just a looping program of her
>>> standing on the top of a waterfall and crouching
>>> slightly. You can zoom in a bit, not very
>>> exciting and I dont know why its a 17 meg file!
>
> That was what I was wondering! ;)  I've seen 3D
> panoramic photos before and they're nowhere near
> 17meg, so I thought there might be something more
> to it than just that. (Oh well...)
>
>> Sorry forgot to say it is a 3D animation and the
>> camera circles Lara, which you can control slightly.
>
> Ah. But Lara herself is not moving or anything?
>
>> It's not very interesting, I was hoping for more.
>
> In that case, I'll not bother. ;)  (Thanks, though)
>
>> They'd be better off releasing a demo level.
>
> They're probably not that far into development- (?)
> (I suppose, they only just announced it...)

They've had it 18 months. It's likely that the Lara we see on that
site is a direct result of Toby Gards work with them. In the Flash
anim, Lara does move. A little. And, she doesn't have a ponytail....
it's a plaitt!!! ;) 
McG.
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 6:31:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa typed:
> It's a Macromedia Flash 7 '3D' animation loop with a
> little bit of zoom and rotate control. Lara is stooping
> at the edge of a waterfall. Looks like Lara is NOT going
> to be as completely 'cartooney' as CD is noted for with
> their current games.

I was hoping she might be moving so we could see her in
action, as it were. ;) 

I reckon they got the balance just right between 'realism'
and 'cartooney', but I still think her head is *too* small
for the rest of her body! :\ (Of all the things to be out of
proportion ;> ;p)

- (However, that might just be the angle of the camera,
in some screenshots it looks ok...)

> It will look better than TRLR and similar to AoD but
> brighter. IF it looks like this little Flash thing.

Heh... that Flash thing is not so little. ;) 

> IF the game looks like this then it will look better
> (Lara will) than what Gary and I were talking about
> earlier. I'll buy it and play it, after all it IS Lara
> Croft and Tombraiding :) 

Yep, I quite like the look of the screenshots. Especially
with all them gadgets and stuff hanging off her belt. ;) 

> McG.

Thanks McG!


--
};> Matt v3.2 <:{
April 13, 2005 8:53:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Ghost" <friendly_cyber_ghost@hotmail.(nospam)com> wrote in message
news:425ce939$1_2@127.0.0.1...

Just the thought of San Andreas with a Tomb Raider flavour gives me
goosebumps.
Lara exploring an area that size and variety and with that freedom sounds
like the perfect game.

>
> And last since Lara isn't an criminal, there should be an distiction
> between "friendly enemys" (e.g. securty guards, police officers,
> bystanders) and "hostile enemys", so if you kill an "friendly" this has an
> influence on your game. Not neccessarily an imediate one, try to imagine
> the "Area 51" level in TR3 - you kill silently some of the guards, you
> pass the level. But further on, when you get to London, there would be
> Interpol searching for you, making the whole level a lot harder.

Like in Barkhang where you can have the monks for or against you depending
on your actions?
I dunno. I think I prefer to just deal with the bad guys instead of the
pissed off good guys too.
April 13, 2005 8:57:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

I'd be happy with TR2 with just different locations and puzzles. ;-)
April 13, 2005 11:21:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Razor" <razor@kickcole.ie> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:D 3jf9q$f8r$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
>
> "Ghost" <friendly_cyber_ghost@hotmail.(nospam)com> wrote in message
> news:425ce939$1_2@127.0.0.1...
>
> Just the thought of San Andreas with a Tomb Raider flavour gives me
> goosebumps.
> Lara exploring an area that size and variety and with that freedom
> sounds like the perfect game.

Mr. Gard did you hear that? Maybe you're searching an game designer ;-)

>
>>
>> And last since Lara isn't an criminal, there should be an distiction
>> between "friendly enemys" (e.g. securty guards, police officers,
>> bystanders) and "hostile enemys", so if you kill an "friendly" this
>> has an influence on your game. Not neccessarily an imediate one, try
>> to imagine the "Area 51" level in TR3 - you kill silently some of the
>> guards, you pass the level. But further on, when you get to London,
>> there would be Interpol searching for you, making the whole level a
>> lot harder.
>
> Like in Barkhang where you can have the monks for or against you
> depending on your actions?
> I dunno. I think I prefer to just deal with the bad guys instead of
> the pissed off good guys too.
Nope that's to simple. It should be more like, if you do something for
them, they will help you, but only the ones that have seen your actions,
if you do harm them they will defend themselfs, but also only the ones
that see your actions. Would mean if you kill one and nobody has seen
it, you will get off with it. But if you kill one and a monk has seen
that action, don't let escape the one or he will spread word. So as time
is passing more and more monks would know of your good or wrong doing.
but if you don't bother with them they should be neutral or hide
themselfs to not get harmed.

This could be spiced up with an sidequest - you do some good for the
monks (e.g. liberating the monastery from some evil, greedy horde of
dope traffikers) and the abbot will present you with some rare artefact,
you can cash in, and you could by your superduper ultralight highpower
silenced sniper rifle. :-)

Game AI should reflect real life. You do something wrong, you can get
away with it, if there are no witnesses or traces left, but if you're
caught doing wrong or leave evidence behind you AI should slowly adapt
to that.

Immagine some 100 - 200 hours of gameplay and finally you got to the
final level only to discover that since you behaved like a crazed serial
killer there's the SWAT - Team awaiting you at the mansion and you are
sentenced to lifelong jail ..... or hopefully you've got lot's of cash
and can corrupt some judge or hire the best lawyer and bail you out of
this situation and continue your adventure or you have to resart your
game ..... hehehe.

As I said the game should be as real life - real bitchy. ;-)

See you on aggta ;-)

An almost always friendly

Ghost










----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Anonymous
April 14, 2005 3:56:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Ghost wrote:
>
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:vE_6e.56644$1H3.54864@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > "mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> > news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz
> >> Hey Raiders, ;) 
> > snip < It's a Macromedia Flash 7 '3D' animation loop with a little bit
> > of zoom and rotate control. Lara is stooping at the edge of a
> > waterfall. Looks like Lara is NOT going to be as completely
> > 'cartooney' as CD is noted for with their current games. It will look
> > better than TRLR and similar to AoD but brighter. IF it looks like
> > this little Flash thing.
> >
> > IF the game looks like this then it will look better (Lara will) than
> > what Gary and I were talking about earlier. I'll buy it and play
> > it, after all it IS Lara Croft and Tombraiding :) 
> >
> > McG.
> hmmm ... at the first look I must admit that finally there's hope. The
> screenshots are recalling memorys from TR3 (Jungle levels) and TRLR.
> (Cambodia level), only the face isn't that Lara like it should be. My
> only fear is, we will receive another dumbed down game to please the
> softcore gamers. Wouldn't it beeing nice to have another long lasting
> adventure as TRLR?
>
> Maybe it have been discussed in past, but what a game would it be,
> combining some of the GTASA features into TR? Every vehicle is usable.
> Woww ... driving, biking, boating and maybe flying? You should be able
> to pick up your enemys/friends weapons. Maps should be open so you can
> go back and forward between the various levels you've opened. This gives
> also alternative solutions to solve missions. Maybe on this lines -
> she's in some lost place with a big lake, there's an old airplane wreck,
> and a boat. Fix the plane and you go to next point fast, but first you
> have to search for replacment parts, use the boat but you have to row,
> or use part's from the airplan to fix the boat you so you get an
> motorboat, or you simply take the long way and go by foot,
> discovering/collecting usfull stuff.
> An limited inventory would be fine, but would be better if you can equip
> her with mission specific gear, better every weapon/gadget/ammo has an
> weight/volume factor, the more weight, the slower she moves. So it could
> become neccessary to leave equipment behind to swim through an river or
> to make that extra long jump. Same with heavy clothing, heavy clothing
> impeds your swimming skills.

I totally agree with you there. In the past TR's, there was no
apparent affect from carrying all the weapons ammo she collected,
not to mention the bulk. Toward the latter part of the games, if
you (Lara) collected a lot of ammo--that alone should make it almost
impossible for Lara to swim.

> Imagine all begins with an nice old fashioned training level in her
> mansion, she get's an phone call, to prepare for her adventure, she hang
> up the phone, goes to to the closet for appropriate dressing, then to
> her weapons room, and last but not least you might select her prefered
> vehicle in the garage, and there she goes.

Again, I couldn't agree more. It never made any sense to me that
someone like Lara would depend on finding by chance almost everything
she needed along the way. She would prepare ahead of time.

> The training level should have an influence on her abilities. The more
> she trains the better she becomes doing things. The chocolate bars in
> TRAOD weren't that bad, but wouldn't it be better that she needs food to
> have stamina or to build up phisical shape? But to much food would make
> her fat.?

However, I don't agree with you there. Getting stronger or fat would
take *WAY* more time than anyone would accept. She's not going to get
stronger just by running around her exercise yard a few times, nor is
she going to fat from a few chocolate bars.

> Try to do some kind of "Madubu Gorge" level with those angled
> long jumps with an fat Lara .... hehehe .... or she's to fat to enter
> the Kayak, so she has to find and use an big raft to navigate down the
> river. ;-)
> Then - more technicaly correct puzzles, especially in modern structures.
> This means, that normaly the main master switch for electicity is in the
> basement of an house, and not at the 13th floor. ;-). Or those wiered
> levers on the Maria Doria level in TR2, put those switches where they
> would be located on a real ship.
> And if they stuck to that Money they used in TRAOD, there should be
> better use for it. Some shops here and there to buy food, clothes, arms,
> ammo etc. or the possibility to return home to mansion, to train
> abilitys for a mission/adventure you can't handle yet. This would also
> be a mega oportunity for product placement, let pay VISA or AMEXCO for
> using Lara an ingame creditcard.

Oh, please no... not *that*. Aren't we inundated enough already
with advertising? If they do that, they should give the game away.

> And last since Lara isn't an criminal,

That's a matter of opinion. She's got quite a history, you know.
According to the extras in TRC, they're all very forgiving, but
still...

> there should be an distiction
> between "friendly enemys" (e.g. securty guards, police officers,
> bystanders) and "hostile enemys", so if you kill an "friendly" this has
> an influence on your game.

Agreed!

> Not neccessarily an imediate one, try to
> imagine the "Area 51" level in TR3 - you kill silently some of the
> guards, you pass the level. But further on, when you get to London,
> there would be Interpol searching for you, making the whole level a lot
> harder.

That would be cool!

-- G

> All of the isn't new, but it would be new in combination with Lara
> Croft, and it would't have a bad effect on the game since IMHO it would
> improve it.
>
> Hoping Mr. Gard is reading, maybe picking up some thought, he still has
> 7 to 12 months left, trying to get it rigth.
>
> An almost always friendly
>
> Ghost
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Anonymous
April 14, 2005 4:01:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Ghost wrote:
>
> "Razor" <razor@kickcole.ie> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:D 3jf9q$f8r$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >
> > "Ghost" <friendly_cyber_ghost@hotmail.(nospam)com> wrote in message
> > news:425ce939$1_2@127.0.0.1...
> >
> > Just the thought of San Andreas with a Tomb Raider flavour gives me
> > goosebumps.
> > Lara exploring an area that size and variety and with that freedom
> > sounds like the perfect game.
>
> Mr. Gard did you hear that? Maybe you're searching an game designer ;-)
>
> >
> >>
> >> And last since Lara isn't an criminal, there should be an distiction
> >> between "friendly enemys" (e.g. securty guards, police officers,
> >> bystanders) and "hostile enemys", so if you kill an "friendly" this
> >> has an influence on your game. Not neccessarily an imediate one, try
> >> to imagine the "Area 51" level in TR3 - you kill silently some of the
> >> guards, you pass the level. But further on, when you get to London,
> >> there would be Interpol searching for you, making the whole level a
> >> lot harder.
> >
> > Like in Barkhang where you can have the monks for or against you
> > depending on your actions?
> > I dunno. I think I prefer to just deal with the bad guys instead of
> > the pissed off good guys too.
> Nope that's to simple. It should be more like, if you do something for
> them, they will help you, but only the ones that have seen your actions,
> if you do harm them they will defend themselfs, but also only the ones
> that see your actions. Would mean if you kill one and nobody has seen
> it, you will get off with it. But if you kill one and a monk has seen
> that action, don't let escape the one or he will spread word. So as time
> is passing more and more monks would know of your good or wrong doing.
> but if you don't bother with them they should be neutral or hide
> themselfs to not get harmed.
>
> This could be spiced up with an sidequest - you do some good for the
> monks (e.g. liberating the monastery from some evil, greedy horde of
> dope traffikers) and the abbot will present you with some rare artefact,
> you can cash in, and you could by your superduper ultralight highpower
> silenced sniper rifle. :-)

Or better yet, they let you in on a secret passage in the hills that
no one (except them) knows about. You'd find an extra secret in there,
valuable information for the rest of the game, or perhaps even a whole
bonus level! :) 

> Game AI should reflect real life. You do something wrong, you can get
> away with it, if there are no witnesses or traces left, but if you're
> caught doing wrong or leave evidence behind you AI should slowly adapt
> to that.

Not too slowly.

-- G

> Immagine some 100 - 200 hours of gameplay and finally you got to the
> final level only to discover that since you behaved like a crazed serial
> killer there's the SWAT - Team awaiting you at the mansion and you are
> sentenced to lifelong jail ..... or hopefully you've got lot's of cash
> and can corrupt some judge or hire the best lawyer and bail you out of
> this situation and continue your adventure or you have to resart your
> game ..... hehehe.
>
> As I said the game should be as real life - real bitchy. ;-)
>
> See you on aggta ;-)
>
> An almost always friendly
>
> Ghost
>
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Anonymous
April 14, 2005 5:00:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Gary Mitchell wrote:

>>And if they stuck to that Money they used in TRAOD, there should be
>>better use for it. Some shops here and there to buy food, clothes, arms,
>>ammo etc. or the possibility to return home to mansion, to train
>>abilitys for a mission/adventure you can't handle yet. This would also
>>be a mega oportunity for product placement, let pay VISA or AMEXCO for
>>using Lara an ingame creditcard.
>
>
> Oh, please no... not *that*. Aren't we inundated enough already
> with advertising? If they do that, they should give the game away.

Depends what the credit limit was!! ;o)

JW
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 11:38:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Gary Mitchell was heard, at
about 04/13/2005 07:56 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
> Ghost wrote:
>
<snip>

>
>
> I totally agree with you there. In the past TR's, there was no
> apparent affect from carrying all the weapons ammo she collected,
> not to mention the bulk. Toward the latter part of the games, if
> you (Lara) collected a lot of ammo--that alone should make it almost
> impossible for Lara to swim.
>

This has got the same feel to me as pre-choosing equipment/ammo (see
below). I, for one, don't want the game turning into one of these "army
mission" games. Boring!!! Choose the wrong weapons, go get killed,
choose wrong weapons again, go get killed, ad infinitum.

>
>>Imagine all begins with an nice old fashioned training level in her
>>mansion, she get's an phone call, to prepare for her adventure, she hang
>>up the phone, goes to to the closet for appropriate dressing, then to
>>her weapons room, and last but not least you might select her prefered
>>vehicle in the garage, and there she goes.
>
>
> Again, I couldn't agree more. It never made any sense to me that
> someone like Lara would depend on finding by chance almost everything
> she needed along the way. She would prepare ahead of time.
>

Oh, please. I don't want to end up playing some *strategy game*!!!
Some strategy might be alright, to give you alternate paths. But I
would be truly upset if I got 3/4 of the way through a level only to
find out I set up Lara with the wrong set of weapons/gear.

That'd just piss me off. Not to mention the total boredom of setting
her up in the first place.

Realism is *bad* thing in a game! I want to have fun, not live someone
else's life (especially a fictional one). If I wanted all that detail
and planning I'd go play a RP game.

>
>>The training level should have an influence on her abilities. The more
>>she trains the better she becomes doing things. The chocolate bars in
>>TRAOD weren't that bad, but wouldn't it be better that she needs food to
>>have stamina or to build up phisical shape? But to much food would make
>>her fat.?
>
>
> However, I don't agree with you there. Getting stronger or fat would
> take *WAY* more time than anyone would accept. She's not going to get
> stronger just by running around her exercise yard a few times, nor is
> she going to fat from a few chocolate bars.
>

Oh, come on. I eat too many chocolate bars in real life. I *really*
don't want this kind BS in the games I play.

When it comes down to it....

Aging, Diet (fat/lazy/energy/pimples/etc), strength, powers, yada, yada,
yada...

All *old school* adventure game stuff. Basically an excuse to give you
something to do *other* than actually play the game!

No RP features (ok, maybe a little to add adventure, but not technicalities)

No war games. I don't want to have plan a mission, or plot an
objective, calculate enemy strength, or work with a team of AI (or live)
players!

I wanna play a good ... live by your wits, find your way as you go, hunt
for what you need, invent a solution on the spot, enjoy the scenery and
(a few) cut scenes/FMVs ... TR adventure!

Ok, yes, it needs a good plot, an interesting (non-linear for
replayability) story line, interesting characters (that we don't get to
know *too* well), set in unique interesting locales, with a steadily
increasingly clear goal.

Maybe a cross between "The DaVinci Code", "Gunga Din" and "Tarzan and
the Lost City of Gold" ... something like that ...

---
PW
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 2:24:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Pistol Whipped" <pwhipped@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:86p7e.63132$Fz.60684@tornado.tampabay.rr.com
> In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Gary Mitchell was heard, at
> about 04/13/2005 07:56 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
>> Ghost wrote:
>>
> <snip>
>
>>
>>
>> I totally agree with you there. In the past TR's, there was no
>> apparent affect from carrying all the weapons ammo she collected,
>> not to mention the bulk. Toward the latter part of the games, if
>> you (Lara) collected a lot of ammo--that alone should make it almost
>> impossible for Lara to swim.
>>
>
> This has got the same feel to me as pre-choosing equipment/ammo (see
> below). I, for one, don't want the game turning into one of these
> "army mission" games. Boring!!! Choose the wrong weapons, go get
> killed, choose wrong weapons again, go get killed, ad infinitum.
>
>>
>>> Imagine all begins with an nice old fashioned training level in her
>>> mansion, she get's an phone call, to prepare for her adventure, she
>>> hang up the phone, goes to to the closet for appropriate dressing,
>>> then to her weapons room, and last but not least you might select
>>> her prefered vehicle in the garage, and there she goes.
>>
>>
>> Again, I couldn't agree more. It never made any sense to me that
>> someone like Lara would depend on finding by chance almost everything
>> she needed along the way. She would prepare ahead of time.
>>
>
> Oh, please. I don't want to end up playing some *strategy game*!!!
> Some strategy might be alright, to give you alternate paths. But I
> would be truly upset if I got 3/4 of the way through a level only to
> find out I set up Lara with the wrong set of weapons/gear.
>
> That'd just piss me off. Not to mention the total boredom of setting
> her up in the first place.
>
> Realism is *bad* thing in a game! I want to have fun, not live
> someone else's life (especially a fictional one). If I wanted all
> that detail and planning I'd go play a RP game.
>
>>
>>> The training level should have an influence on her abilities. The
>>> more she trains the better she becomes doing things. The chocolate
>>> bars in TRAOD weren't that bad, but wouldn't it be better that she
>>> needs food to have stamina or to build up phisical shape? But to
>>> much food would make her fat.?
>>
>>
>> However, I don't agree with you there. Getting stronger or fat would
>> take *WAY* more time than anyone would accept. She's not going to
>> get stronger just by running around her exercise yard a few times,
>> nor is she going to fat from a few chocolate bars.
>>
>
> Oh, come on. I eat too many chocolate bars in real life. I *really*
> don't want this kind BS in the games I play.
>
> When it comes down to it....
>
> Aging, Diet (fat/lazy/energy/pimples/etc), strength, powers, yada,
> yada, yada...
>
> All *old school* adventure game stuff. Basically an excuse to give
> you something to do *other* than actually play the game!
>
> No RP features (ok, maybe a little to add adventure, but not
> technicalities)
> No war games. I don't want to have plan a mission, or plot an
> objective, calculate enemy strength, or work with a team of AI (or
> live) players!
>
> I wanna play a good ... live by your wits, find your way as you go,
> hunt for what you need, invent a solution on the spot, enjoy the
> scenery and (a few) cut scenes/FMVs ... TR adventure!
>
> Ok, yes, it needs a good plot, an interesting (non-linear for
> replayability) story line, interesting characters (that we don't get
> to know *too* well), set in unique interesting locales, with a
> steadily increasingly clear goal.
>
> Maybe a cross between "The DaVinci Code", "Gunga Din" and "Tarzan and
> the Lost City of Gold" ... something like that ...
>
> ---
> PW

How about something along the lines of the original Tombraider? But
with all the fancy pretty and neat stuff modern hardware can give ya and
not slow the gameplay down

See those screenshots at tombraider.com? Wanna bet most folks end up
having Lara throw EVERYthing out of her inventory just to see if it all
disappears off of HER? Well, dunno about most folks really....but me
and you and Gary? Heh, yup!
McG.
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 2:42:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Pistol Whipped wrote:
>
> In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Gary Mitchell was heard, at
> about 04/13/2005 07:56 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
> > Ghost wrote:
> >
> <snip>
>
> >
> >
> > I totally agree with you there. In the past TR's, there was no
> > apparent affect from carrying all the weapons ammo she collected,
> > not to mention the bulk. Toward the latter part of the games, if
> > you (Lara) collected a lot of ammo--that alone should make it almost
> > impossible for Lara to swim.
> >
>
> This has got the same feel to me as pre-choosing equipment/ammo (see
> below). I, for one, don't want the game turning into one of these "army
> mission" games. Boring!!! Choose the wrong weapons, go get killed,
> choose wrong weapons again, go get killed, ad infinitum.

You're thinking something completely different. Lara finds everything
she needs just by chance (apparently) along the way, except for the pair
of pistols. I'm just saying she would (i.e. *she* would) gather together
what she needed before going on an adventure. Any adventurer with more
than two working neurons would prepare somewhat. The player wouldn't
necessarily get to choose anything. If they put that option in, fine,
I'm not opposed to having the chance to select equipment before an
adventure, but that's not necessarily what I was suggesting.


> >>Imagine all begins with an nice old fashioned training level in her
> >>mansion, she get's an phone call, to prepare for her adventure, she hang
> >>up the phone, goes to to the closet for appropriate dressing, then to
> >>her weapons room, and last but not least you might select her prefered
> >>vehicle in the garage, and there she goes.
> >
> >
> > Again, I couldn't agree more. It never made any sense to me that
> > someone like Lara would depend on finding by chance almost everything
> > she needed along the way. She would prepare ahead of time.
> >
>
> Oh, please. I don't want to end up playing some *strategy game*!!!
> Some strategy might be alright, to give you alternate paths. But I
> would be truly upset if I got 3/4 of the way through a level only to
> find out I set up Lara with the wrong set of weapons/gear.
>
> That'd just piss me off. Not to mention the total boredom of setting
> her up in the first place.
>
> Realism is *bad* thing in a game! I want to have fun, not live someone
> else's life (especially a fictional one).

Then you must not like TR very much, that's exactly what we do in
this game. We control Lara, but it's *her* adventure we go on, her
life we experience... a fictional one.

Realism certainly isn't a bad thing. But let's be sure we're talking
about the same thing here: realism doesn't mean having to tie her shoe
laces once in a while or getting indigestion from not washing your
hands before eating. It means gravity works the same way in the game
as it does out here or that bullets cause an appropriate amount of
damage based on the caliber.

> If I wanted all that detail
> and planning I'd go play a RP game.
>
> >
> >>The training level should have an influence on her abilities. The more
> >>she trains the better she becomes doing things. The chocolate bars in
> >>TRAOD weren't that bad, but wouldn't it be better that she needs food to
> >>have stamina or to build up phisical shape? But to much food would make
> >>her fat.?
> >
> >
> > However, I don't agree with you there. Getting stronger or fat would
> > take *WAY* more time than anyone would accept. She's not going to get
> > stronger just by running around her exercise yard a few times, nor is
> > she going to fat from a few chocolate bars.
> >
>
> Oh, come on. I eat too many chocolate bars in real life. I *really*
> don't want this kind BS in the games I play.

Are you saying you want Lara to get fat after eating one chocolate bar?
Give me break.

> When it comes down to it....
>
> Aging, Diet (fat/lazy/energy/pimples/etc), strength, powers, yada, yada,
> yada...
>
> All *old school* adventure game stuff. Basically an excuse to give you
> something to do *other* than actually play the game!
>
> No RP features (ok, maybe a little to add adventure, but not technicalities)
>
> No war games. I don't want to have plan a mission, or plot an
> objective, calculate enemy strength, or work with a team of AI (or live)
> players!

Where's all this coming from? I never suggested any of that.

-- G

> I wanna play a good ... live by your wits, find your way as you go, hunt
> for what you need, invent a solution on the spot, enjoy the scenery and
> (a few) cut scenes/FMVs ... TR adventure!
>
> Ok, yes, it needs a good plot, an interesting (non-linear for
> replayability) story line, interesting characters (that we don't get to
> know *too* well), set in unique interesting locales, with a steadily
> increasingly clear goal.
>
> Maybe a cross between "The DaVinci Code", "Gunga Din" and "Tarzan and
> the Lost City of Gold" ... something like that ...
>
> ---
> PW
April 14, 2005 5:35:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:425E4968.AB2C577F@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Pistol Whipped wrote:
>>
>> In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Gary Mitchell was heard,
>> at
>> about 04/13/2005 07:56 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
>> > Ghost wrote:
>> >
>> <snip>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I totally agree with you there. In the past TR's, there was no
>> > apparent affect from carrying all the weapons ammo she collected,
>> > not to mention the bulk. Toward the latter part of the games, if
>> > you (Lara) collected a lot of ammo--that alone should make it
>> > almost
>> > impossible for Lara to swim.
>> >
>>
>> This has got the same feel to me as pre-choosing equipment/ammo (see
>> below). I, for one, don't want the game turning into one of these
>> "army
>> mission" games. Boring!!! Choose the wrong weapons, go get killed,
>> choose wrong weapons again, go get killed, ad infinitum.
>
> You're thinking something completely different. Lara finds everything
> she needs just by chance (apparently) along the way, except for the
> pair
> of pistols. I'm just saying she would (i.e. *she* would) gather
> together
> what she needed before going on an adventure. Any adventurer with
> more
> than two working neurons would prepare somewhat. The player wouldn't
> necessarily get to choose anything. If they put that option in, fine,
> I'm not opposed to having the chance to select equipment before an
> adventure, but that's not necessarily what I was suggesting.
>
>
>> >>Imagine all begins with an nice old fashioned training level in her
>> >>mansion, she get's an phone call, to prepare for her adventure, she
>> >>hang
>> >>up the phone, goes to to the closet for appropriate dressing, then
>> >>to
>> >>her weapons room, and last but not least you might select her
>> >>prefered
>> >>vehicle in the garage, and there she goes.
>> >
>> >
>> > Again, I couldn't agree more. It never made any sense to me that
>> > someone like Lara would depend on finding by chance almost
>> > everything
>> > she needed along the way. She would prepare ahead of time.
>> >
>>
>> Oh, please. I don't want to end up playing some *strategy game*!!!
>> Some strategy might be alright, to give you alternate paths. But I
>> would be truly upset if I got 3/4 of the way through a level only to
>> find out I set up Lara with the wrong set of weapons/gear.
>>
>> That'd just piss me off. Not to mention the total boredom of setting
>> her up in the first place.
>>
>> Realism is *bad* thing in a game! I want to have fun, not live
>> someone
>> else's life (especially a fictional one).
>
> Then you must not like TR very much, that's exactly what we do in
> this game. We control Lara, but it's *her* adventure we go on, her
> life we experience... a fictional one.
>
> Realism certainly isn't a bad thing. But let's be sure we're talking
> about the same thing here: realism doesn't mean having to tie her shoe
> laces once in a while or getting indigestion from not washing your
> hands before eating. It means gravity works the same way in the game
> as it does out here or that bullets cause an appropriate amount of
> damage based on the caliber.
>
>> If I wanted all that detail
>> and planning I'd go play a RP game.
>>
>> >
>> >>The training level should have an influence on her abilities. The
>> >>more
>> >>she trains the better she becomes doing things. The chocolate bars
>> >>in
>> >>TRAOD weren't that bad, but wouldn't it be better that she needs
>> >>food to
>> >>have stamina or to build up phisical shape? But to much food would
>> >>make
>> >>her fat.?
>> >
>> >
>> > However, I don't agree with you there. Getting stronger or fat
>> > would
>> > take *WAY* more time than anyone would accept. She's not going to
>> > get
>> > stronger just by running around her exercise yard a few times, nor
>> > is
>> > she going to fat from a few chocolate bars.
>> >
>>
>> Oh, come on. I eat too many chocolate bars in real life. I *really*
>> don't want this kind BS in the games I play.
>
> Are you saying you want Lara to get fat after eating one chocolate
> bar?
> Give me break.
>
>> When it comes down to it....
>>
>> Aging, Diet (fat/lazy/energy/pimples/etc), strength, powers, yada,
>> yada,
>> yada...
>>
>> All *old school* adventure game stuff. Basically an excuse to give
>> you
>> something to do *other* than actually play the game!
>>
>> No RP features (ok, maybe a little to add adventure, but not
>> technicalities)
>>
>> No war games. I don't want to have plan a mission, or plot an
>> objective, calculate enemy strength, or work with a team of AI (or
>> live)
>> players!
>
> Where's all this coming from? I never suggested any of that.
>
> -- G
>
>> I wanna play a good ... live by your wits, find your way as you go,
>> hunt
>> for what you need, invent a solution on the spot, enjoy the scenery
>> and
>> (a few) cut scenes/FMVs ... TR adventure!
>>
>> Ok, yes, it needs a good plot, an interesting (non-linear for
>> replayability) story line, interesting characters (that we don't get
>> to
>> know *too* well), set in unique interesting locales, with a steadily
>> increasingly clear goal.
>>
>> Maybe a cross between "The DaVinci Code", "Gunga Din" and "Tarzan and
>> the Lost City of Gold" ... something like that ...
>>
>> ---
>> PW
you hit the nail on the head Gary, haven't seen your post before mine,
and as usual mine isn't so concise.

An almost always friendly
Ghost



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Anonymous
April 15, 2005 12:27:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Pistol Whipped" <pwhipped@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:86p7e.63132$Fz.60684@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
<snip>

> I wanna play a good ... live by your wits, find your way as you go, hunt
> for what you need, invent a solution on the spot, enjoy the scenery and
> (a few) cut scenes/FMVs ... TR adventure!
>
> Ok, yes, it needs a good plot, an interesting (non-linear for
> replayability) story line, interesting characters (that we don't get to
> know *too* well), set in unique interesting locales, with a steadily
> increasingly clear goal.
>
> Maybe a cross between "The DaVinci Code", "Gunga Din" and "Tarzan and
> the Lost City of Gold" ... something like that ...


did you notice she is wearing a bluetoothish headset in this small snippet
?- you are not alone with this Lara :)  Personally, I liked that level in
Chronicles,since the guy didn't get in the way too much but disliked Kurtis
intensely as a sidekick, in AoD . So- what's your bet on? an interractive
side-kick or merely a voice in her head with FMV's a la Splinter Cell?

Dungeonbunny
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 12:32:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Ghost (nospam) wrote:
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:vE_6e.56644$1H3.54864@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > "mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> > news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz
> And last since Lara isn't an criminal, there should be an distiction
> between "friendly enemys" (e.g. securty guards, police officers,
> bystanders) and "hostile enemys", so if you kill an "friendly" this
has
> an influence on your game. Not neccessarily an imediate one, try to
> imagine the "Area 51" level in TR3 - you kill silently some of the
> guards, you pass the level. But further on, when you get to London,
> there would be Interpol searching for you, making the whole level a
lot
> harder.

Going off on a tangent here: True, she's not a criminal...but how did
she clear her name? Was she still the dark, harsh version in AoD, or
did she have another earth-shattering event that regained some of her
old personality?

These questions have to be answered, and I was hoping that there would
be two more games in that story arc. I feel like I've been cheated out
of two good stories. :-(
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 12:43:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Pistol Whipped wrote:
> In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Gary Mitchell was heard,
at
> about 04/13/2005 07:56 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
> > Ghost wrote:
> >
> <tons of snippage>

> >>The training level should have an influence on her abilities. The
more
> >>she trains the better she becomes doing things. The chocolate bars
in
> >>TRAOD weren't that bad, but wouldn't it be better that she needs
food to
> >>have stamina or to build up phisical shape? But to much food would
make
> >>her fat.?
> >
> >
> > However, I don't agree with you there. Getting stronger or fat
would
> > take *WAY* more time than anyone would accept. She's not going to
get
> > stronger just by running around her exercise yard a few times, nor
is
> > she going to fat from a few chocolate bars.
> >
>
> Oh, come on. I eat too many chocolate bars in real life. I *really*

> don't want this kind BS in the games I play.


I have to agree here (BTW, you should see the Yahoo Group I "RP" on
featuring Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire). Too much "reality" kills the
fun...or, as it's been so eloquently stated:

"Every time you bring reality into anime, God kills a cat girl. PLEASE
THINK OF THE CAT GIRLS!!!" :-D
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 2:02:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:425DB2F9.21AA374D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Ghost wrote:
>>
>> "Razor" <razor@kickcole.ie> ha scritto nel messaggio
>> news:D 3jf9q$f8r$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
>> >
>> > "Ghost" <friendly_cyber_ghost@hotmail.(nospam)com> wrote in message
>> > news:425ce939$1_2@127.0.0.1...
>> >
>> > Just the thought of San Andreas with a Tomb Raider flavour gives me
>> > goosebumps.
>> > Lara exploring an area that size and variety and with that freedom
>> > sounds like the perfect game.
>>
>> Mr. Gard did you hear that? Maybe you're searching an game designer ;-)
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> And last since Lara isn't an criminal, there should be an distiction
>> >> between "friendly enemys" (e.g. securty guards, police officers,
>> >> bystanders) and "hostile enemys", so if you kill an "friendly" this
>> >> has an influence on your game. Not neccessarily an imediate one, try
>> >> to imagine the "Area 51" level in TR3 - you kill silently some of the
>> >> guards, you pass the level. But further on, when you get to London,
>> >> there would be Interpol searching for you, making the whole level a
>> >> lot harder.
>> >
>> > Like in Barkhang where you can have the monks for or against you
>> > depending on your actions?
>> > I dunno. I think I prefer to just deal with the bad guys instead of
>> > the pissed off good guys too.
>> Nope that's to simple. It should be more like, if you do something for
>> them, they will help you, but only the ones that have seen your actions,
>> if you do harm them they will defend themselfs, but also only the ones
>> that see your actions. Would mean if you kill one and nobody has seen
>> it, you will get off with it. But if you kill one and a monk has seen
>> that action, don't let escape the one or he will spread word. So as time
>> is passing more and more monks would know of your good or wrong doing.
>> but if you don't bother with them they should be neutral or hide
>> themselfs to not get harmed.
>>
>> This could be spiced up with an sidequest - you do some good for the
>> monks (e.g. liberating the monastery from some evil, greedy horde of
>> dope traffikers) and the abbot will present you with some rare artefact,
>> you can cash in, and you could by your superduper ultralight highpower
>> silenced sniper rifle. :-)
>
> Or better yet, they let you in on a secret passage in the hills that
> no one (except them) knows about. You'd find an extra secret in there,
> valuable information for the rest of the game, or perhaps even a whole
> bonus level! :) 

Is there any Eidos or Crystal Dynamics employee in this NG? Please note
this - esp. the bonus level part - down!

I'm still waiting for the huge file to download...

WY

>
>> Game AI should reflect real life. You do something wrong, you can get
>> away with it, if there are no witnesses or traces left, but if you're
>> caught doing wrong or leave evidence behind you AI should slowly adapt
>> to that.
>
> Not too slowly.
>
> -- G
>
>> Immagine some 100 - 200 hours of gameplay and finally you got to the
>> final level only to discover that since you behaved like a crazed serial
>> killer there's the SWAT - Team awaiting you at the mansion and you are
>> sentenced to lifelong jail ..... or hopefully you've got lot's of cash
>> and can corrupt some judge or hire the best lawyer and bail you out of
>> this situation and continue your adventure or you have to resart your
>> game ..... hehehe.
>>
>> As I said the game should be as real life - real bitchy. ;-)
>>
>> See you on aggta ;-)
>>
>> An almost always friendly
>>
>> Ghost
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
>> News==----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
>> Newsgroups
>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
>> =----
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 2:32:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz...
> Hey Raiders, ;) 
>
> Can someone with broadband go here...
> http://www.tombraider.com/main.html
>
> ... And tell me if that 17meg 3D Screen is worth
> downloading over very slow 36k dial-up? ;) 
>
> Do we get to see any character animation? -Or is
> it just like a screenshot in 3D, or what? :) 
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> };> Matt v3.2 <:{
>

Not much to see there. But hold on... it seems like Lara is into archaeology
again! Hip hip hurray for the tomb raider and her raiding!

And her face seems different. Slightly.

Graphics similar to AOD though.

WY
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 3:24:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Stormstruck" <stormstruck_@NOSPAMMYhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:425c70a8$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
> Not really, its just a looping program of her standing on the top of a
> waterfall and crouching slightly. You can zoom in a bit, not very
> exciting and I dont know why its a 17 meg file!
>
>
> "mec'devil" <delusions@fools.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:425c6c09@clear.net.nz...
>> Hey Raiders, ;) 
>>
>> Can someone with broadband go here...
>> http://www.tombraider.com/main.html
>>
>> ... And tell me if that 17meg 3D Screen is worth
>> downloading over very slow 36k dial-up? ;) 
>>
>> Do we get to see any character animation? -Or is
>> it just like a screenshot in 3D, or what? :) 
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> };> Matt v3.2 <:{
>>
>
>

Plus it took several minutes to load on roadrunner broadband. It would take
forever on 56K modem. ^_^

Inu-Yasha
Feh!!
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 4:18:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Dungeonbunny"
"Pistol Whipped"
snip
>>
>> Maybe a cross between "The DaVinci Code", "Gunga Din" and "Tarzan and
>> the Lost City of Gold" ... something like that ...
>
>
> did you notice she is wearing a bluetoothish headset in this small
> snippet ?- you are not alone with this Lara :)  Personally, I liked
> that level in Chronicles,since the guy didn't get in the way too much
> but disliked Kurtis intensely as a sidekick, in AoD . So- what's your
> bet on? an interractive side-kick or merely a voice in her head with
> FMV's a la Splinter Cell?
>
> Dungeonbunny

I have a feeling the 'blootoot' headset is more like a Seals
Magna-Phone. Portable satellite uplink 'cellphone' if you will ;)  It
would fit with most of Laras (past) game scenarios. But then, it could
simply be her all-around Personal Communications Device. She could talk
to us too :)  And why not? You have voice commands for the characters
in-game now for some games.
McG.
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 12:25:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"W. Y." wrote:
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:425DB2F9.21AA374D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > Ghost wrote:
> >>
> >> "Razor" <razor@kickcole.ie> ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> news:D 3jf9q$f8r$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
> >> >
> >> > "Ghost" <friendly_cyber_ghost@hotmail.(nospam)com> wrote in message
> >> > news:425ce939$1_2@127.0.0.1...
> >> >
> >> > Just the thought of San Andreas with a Tomb Raider flavour gives me
> >> > goosebumps.
> >> > Lara exploring an area that size and variety and with that freedom
> >> > sounds like the perfect game.
> >>
> >> Mr. Gard did you hear that? Maybe you're searching an game designer ;-)
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> And last since Lara isn't an criminal, there should be an distiction
> >> >> between "friendly enemys" (e.g. securty guards, police officers,
> >> >> bystanders) and "hostile enemys", so if you kill an "friendly" this
> >> >> has an influence on your game. Not neccessarily an imediate one, try
> >> >> to imagine the "Area 51" level in TR3 - you kill silently some of the
> >> >> guards, you pass the level. But further on, when you get to London,
> >> >> there would be Interpol searching for you, making the whole level a
> >> >> lot harder.
> >> >
> >> > Like in Barkhang where you can have the monks for or against you
> >> > depending on your actions?
> >> > I dunno. I think I prefer to just deal with the bad guys instead of
> >> > the pissed off good guys too.
> >> Nope that's to simple. It should be more like, if you do something for
> >> them, they will help you, but only the ones that have seen your actions,
> >> if you do harm them they will defend themselfs, but also only the ones
> >> that see your actions. Would mean if you kill one and nobody has seen
> >> it, you will get off with it. But if you kill one and a monk has seen
> >> that action, don't let escape the one or he will spread word. So as time
> >> is passing more and more monks would know of your good or wrong doing.
> >> but if you don't bother with them they should be neutral or hide
> >> themselfs to not get harmed.
> >>
> >> This could be spiced up with an sidequest - you do some good for the
> >> monks (e.g. liberating the monastery from some evil, greedy horde of
> >> dope traffikers) and the abbot will present you with some rare artefact,
> >> you can cash in, and you could by your superduper ultralight highpower
> >> silenced sniper rifle. :-)
> >
> > Or better yet, they let you in on a secret passage in the hills that
> > no one (except them) knows about. You'd find an extra secret in there,
> > valuable information for the rest of the game, or perhaps even a whole
> > bonus level! :) 
>
> Is there any Eidos or Crystal Dynamics employee in this NG? Please note
> this - esp. the bonus level part - down!

You would think there should be! After all, this is the TR newsgroup, not
hosted by anyone with an agenda. Where better to find out what the fans
are really thinking. However, in all the time I've been here, I don't
recall any indication of any Core/Eidos/Crystal people actually visiting.

-- G


> I'm still waiting for the huge file to download...
>
> WY
>
> >
> >> Game AI should reflect real life. You do something wrong, you can get
> >> away with it, if there are no witnesses or traces left, but if you're
> >> caught doing wrong or leave evidence behind you AI should slowly adapt
> >> to that.
> >
> > Not too slowly.
> >
> > -- G
> >
> >> Immagine some 100 - 200 hours of gameplay and finally you got to the
> >> final level only to discover that since you behaved like a crazed serial
> >> killer there's the SWAT - Team awaiting you at the mansion and you are
> >> sentenced to lifelong jail ..... or hopefully you've got lot's of cash
> >> and can corrupt some judge or hire the best lawyer and bail you out of
> >> this situation and continue your adventure or you have to resart your
> >> game ..... hehehe.
> >>
> >> As I said the game should be as real life - real bitchy. ;-)
> >>
> >> See you on aggta ;-)
> >>
> >> An almost always friendly
> >>
> >> Ghost
> >>
> >> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> >> News==----
> >> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> >> Newsgroups
> >> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> >> =----
April 15, 2005 1:39:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Pistol Whipped" <pwhipped@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> ha scritto nel
messaggio news:3hI7e.633$_t3.586@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
<snip>

> In my mind, its where all of this "realism" leads. Meters and
> controls for every aspect of the game character. Planning ahead with
> a few choices in TR7 leads to more choices in TR8, and then before you
> know it, you're making battle plans for your adventure.
>
> Its not that I am diametrically opposed to these features in games. I
> just don't believe that any of them are in the spirit of TR.
> Adventure means unplanned, unpredictable ... unforeseeable! If its
> planned, calculated and prepared for ... its a vacation.

In fact that's what I'm thinking about, to get the whole game
unpredictable a "real adventure." - To take the preparation for an
mission possibility : most of us would select the basic equipment of
here on our past experiences with the game. So happily we think to be
prepared for all, and then we may learn to be completely wrong, and to
fix the problem on the go with makeshift solutions. Think of the island
level in TR3 to pick the tribesmen from distance you pack the biggest
gun there is. Only to learn, they have seen it and keep their heads
down, but are cutting the ropes of bridges, sink canoes and constrict
you to take an alternate route. IMHO this is adventure.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough when I talked about "reality" in TR, this
reality should not detract from the "comic"-type figure and capabilitys
Lara has, they should enhance them.
There shouldn't be visible weigth, unrest or fat meters, the effects
should only beeing visible or feelable. They shouldn't detract fun, or
beeing as teddious as seen in other games. But give you more
possibilities to solve an given situation. A timed run for example: if
you can't make it - leave some gear behind and you're running faster or
add some to get it harder ;-). Or eat some magic mushrooms the monks
gave you and you run faster. Instead of talking about "reality" it would
be more appropriate to say her decisions should also have effects on the
ongoing of the game, but in no way preclude the fun.

I think it's time to pack some new revolutianry concepts into TR games,
to add to the unpredictable adventure feeling. Enemys that pop out
casualy, animals you can scare away, concequences of your doing - but
not the stupid TRAOD way - Tailoring the basic gear to your style of
gaming, to enhance your prefered way of Raiding.
As in "life" the only given thing should be the following ones - The
roads, the houses, the temple outlines, lakes, rivers, your main enemys
and the artefacts. All the rest: animals, bushmen, tribes, should be
randomly. And lot's of free roaming and exploring.
When the only sure thing in an walkthrough are the maps and some basic
tips how to do this or that, they done it right. That's adventure.

An almost always friendly

Ghost













----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 1:48:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Ghost wrote:
>
> "Pistol Whipped" <pwhipped@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> ha scritto nel
> messaggio news:3hI7e.633$_t3.586@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> <snip>
>
> > In my mind, its where all of this "realism" leads. Meters and
> > controls for every aspect of the game character. Planning ahead with
> > a few choices in TR7 leads to more choices in TR8, and then before you
> > know it, you're making battle plans for your adventure.
> >
> > Its not that I am diametrically opposed to these features in games. I
> > just don't believe that any of them are in the spirit of TR.
> > Adventure means unplanned, unpredictable ... unforeseeable! If its
> > planned, calculated and prepared for ... its a vacation.
>
> In fact that's what I'm thinking about, to get the whole game
> unpredictable a "real adventure." - To take the preparation for an
> mission possibility : most of us would select the basic equipment of
> here on our past experiences with the game. So happily we think to be
> prepared for all, and then we may learn to be completely wrong, and to
> fix the problem on the go with makeshift solutions. Think of the island
> level in TR3 to pick the tribesmen from distance you pack the biggest
> gun there is. Only to learn, they have seen it and keep their heads
> down, but are cutting the ropes of bridges, sink canoes and constrict
> you to take an alternate route. IMHO this is adventure.
>
> Maybe I wasn't clear enough when I talked about "reality" in TR, this
> reality should not detract from the "comic"-type figure and capabilitys
> Lara has, they should enhance them.
> There shouldn't be visible weigth, unrest or fat meters, the effects
> should only beeing visible or feelable. They shouldn't detract fun, or
> beeing as teddious as seen in other games. But give you more
> possibilities to solve an given situation. A timed run for example: if
> you can't make it - leave some gear behind and you're running faster or
> add some to get it harder ;-). Or eat some magic mushrooms the monks
> gave you and you run faster. Instead of talking about "reality" it would
> be more appropriate to say her decisions should also have effects on the
> ongoing of the game, but in no way preclude the fun.

Well, to me, a more realistic game would be far more fun. Using
your example of the timed run... I think it would be *much* more
interesting to have to *think* your way out of it. For example, if
Lara can't make the timed run, perhaps she could prop up a log on
the door so that when she goes back and hits the switch, the log
falls in the doorway jamming it open. Then Lara could take her
time. :)  Having a game with a few things like that, IMO, would
be infinitely more entertaining than simply and mindlessly having
to beat the clock. I get tired of those timed runs.

> I think it's time to pack some new revolutianry concepts into TR games,
> to add to the unpredictable adventure feeling. Enemys that pop out
> casualy, animals you can scare away, concequences of your doing - but
> not the stupid TRAOD way - Tailoring the basic gear to your style of
> gaming, to enhance your prefered way of Raiding.
> As in "life" the only given thing should be the following ones - The
> roads, the houses, the temple outlines, lakes, rivers, your main enemys
> and the artefacts. All the rest: animals, bushmen, tribes, should be
> randomly. And lot's of free roaming and exploring.
> When the only sure thing in an walkthrough are the maps and some basic
> tips how to do this or that, they done it right. That's adventure.

Having things like that happen randomly would add to the replayability
of the game. However, it would be harder to program. It might be
several years between games instead of two or three.

-- G

> An almost always friendly
>
> Ghost
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 2:27:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Pistol Whipped wrote:
>
> In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Gary Mitchell was heard, at
> about 04/14/2005 06:42 AM, and I could have sworn it said ...
> > Pistol Whipped wrote:
> >
> >>In the dead of night, a faint whisper from Gary Mitchell was heard, at
> >>about 04/13/2005 07:56 PM, and I could have sworn it said ...
> >>
> >>>Ghost wrote:
> >>>
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>I totally agree with you there. In the past TR's, there was no
> >>>apparent affect from carrying all the weapons ammo she collected,
> >>>not to mention the bulk. Toward the latter part of the games, if
> >>>you (Lara) collected a lot of ammo--that alone should make it almost
> >>>impossible for Lara to swim.
> >>>
> >>
> >>This has got the same feel to me as pre-choosing equipment/ammo (see
> >>below). I, for one, don't want the game turning into one of these "army
> >>mission" games. Boring!!! Choose the wrong weapons, go get killed,
> >>choose wrong weapons again, go get killed, ad infinitum.
> >
> >
> > You're thinking something completely different. Lara finds everything
> > she needs just by chance (apparently) along the way, except for the pair
> > of pistols. I'm just saying she would (i.e. *she* would) gather together
> > what she needed before going on an adventure. Any adventurer with more
> > than two working neurons would prepare somewhat. The player wouldn't
> > necessarily get to choose anything. If they put that option in, fine,
> > I'm not opposed to having the chance to select equipment before an
> > adventure, but that's not necessarily what I was suggesting.
> >
>
> It may not be what you were suggesting but it was pretty plain to me
> that you were agreeing with someone who was.
>
> No weight meter, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

OK... It seems maybe I should simply spell out exactly what I
was thinking on this "start out prepared" business.

As it is, Lara starts out with two pistols, climbing boots, an
empty back pack, and that's it. The other weapons she needs,
ammo, and health packs are all found along the way--often in
silliest locations.

Instead of that, I'm just suggesting that the weapons, ammo,
and health packs all are there to begin with, in the back
pack. There's no meters or any of that other nonsense you were
talking about. Maybe you can tweak the selection depending on
where she'll be going, but that's all.

Along the way, she could find other things instead, such as maps
or other clues, valuables, or maybe she meets someone who knows
a secret passage and she has to figure out a way to get the info.
This would add another dimension to the game--interacting with
other characters (to some extent) to accomplish her goal. We
got a taste of this with that dying pilot who gave Lara that
swamp map in TR 3, (I think it was the end of the Coastal Village
level).

-- G
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 2:39:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Pistol Whipped"
snip
>>
>
> In my mind, its where all of this "realism" leads. Meters and
> controls for every aspect of the game character. Planning ahead with
> a few choices in TR7 leads to more choices in TR8, and then before
> you know it, you're making battle plans for your adventure.
>
> Its not that I am diametrically opposed to these features in games. I
> just don't believe that any of them are in the spirit of TR. Adventure
> means unplanned, unpredictable ... unforeseeable! If its
> planned, calculated and prepared for ... its a vacation.
>
>>
>>> I wanna play a good ... live by your wits, find your way as you go,
>>> hunt for what you need, invent a solution on the spot, enjoy the
>>> scenery and (a few) cut scenes/FMVs ... TR adventure!
>>>
>>> Ok, yes, it needs a good plot, an interesting (non-linear for
>>> replayability) story line, interesting characters (that we don't
>>> get to know *too* well), set in unique interesting locales, with a
>>> steadily increasingly clear goal.
>>>
>>> Maybe a cross between "The DaVinci Code", "Gunga Din" and "Tarzan
>>> and the Lost City of Gold" ... something like that ...
>>>
>>> ---
>>> PW

Some want a "simulation", some want an adventure game. I want the
adventure game :) 
McG.
April 15, 2005 4:16:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:425F9172.5AA85DEA@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Ghost wrote:
>>
> [snip]
>
>> Why I shold be able to open a door only with an key or secret code?
>> Let
>> me blow that damm door if I want to blow it with the rocket launcher
>> or
>> an heap of explosives. It's so plain dumb to have an rocket launcher
>> that can't open an wooden door. And there are no techincal inducted
>> excuses to design a game that way. Think about those pesky piranhas
>> in
>> TR3, why they should be immortal? Occupational therapy!!?? Give me a
>> candle of dynamite and the swimm all belly up. But if you prefer to
>> do
>> it old fashioned way do it without harming any animal in the game.
>
> Now, *that* would have been good! Drop a grenade in the water and
> that's it, you're safe! Or maybe it gives you three minutes before
> more piranha show up from elsewhere. The same would be true with
> other threats in the water (shark, etc.) Ever go fishing with cherry
> bombs? ;)  But, alas, such options weren't available to us. :/ 
>
> -- G
[snip]

hehehe .... we used beer/lemonade bottles - the ones with the old
fashioned closure -filled them with water and carbide, drop them into
the water, wait - boooom - and have a nice fishdinner.

hmmmm ..... but today this would get you in lot's of troubles over here
...... sighhhh

An almost always friendly
Ghost



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
April 15, 2005 4:39:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:425F8E3A.A1C89AA6@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Ghost wrote:
>>
>> "Pistol Whipped" <pwhipped@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> ha scritto nel
>> messaggio news:3hI7e.633$_t3.586@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> <snip>
>>
>> > In my mind, its where all of this "realism" leads. Meters and
>> > controls for every aspect of the game character. Planning ahead
>> > with
>> > a few choices in TR7 leads to more choices in TR8, and then before
>> > you
>> > know it, you're making battle plans for your adventure.
>> >
>> > Its not that I am diametrically opposed to these features in games.
>> > I
>> > just don't believe that any of them are in the spirit of TR.
>> > Adventure means unplanned, unpredictable ... unforeseeable! If
>> > its
>> > planned, calculated and prepared for ... its a vacation.
>>
>> In fact that's what I'm thinking about, to get the whole game
>> unpredictable a "real adventure." - To take the preparation for an
>> mission possibility : most of us would select the basic equipment of
>> here on our past experiences with the game. So happily we think to be
>> prepared for all, and then we may learn to be completely wrong, and
>> to
>> fix the problem on the go with makeshift solutions. Think of the
>> island
>> level in TR3 to pick the tribesmen from distance you pack the biggest
>> gun there is. Only to learn, they have seen it and keep their heads
>> down, but are cutting the ropes of bridges, sink canoes and constrict
>> you to take an alternate route. IMHO this is adventure.
>>
>> Maybe I wasn't clear enough when I talked about "reality" in TR, this
>> reality should not detract from the "comic"-type figure and
>> capabilitys
>> Lara has, they should enhance them.
>> There shouldn't be visible weigth, unrest or fat meters, the effects
>> should only beeing visible or feelable. They shouldn't detract fun,
>> or
>> beeing as teddious as seen in other games. But give you more
>> possibilities to solve an given situation. A timed run for example:
>> if
>> you can't make it - leave some gear behind and you're running faster
>> or
>> add some to get it harder ;-). Or eat some magic mushrooms the monks
>> gave you and you run faster. Instead of talking about "reality" it
>> would
>> be more appropriate to say her decisions should also have effects on
>> the
>> ongoing of the game, but in no way preclude the fun.
>
> Well, to me, a more realistic game would be far more fun. Using
> your example of the timed run... I think it would be *much* more
> interesting to have to *think* your way out of it. For example, if
> Lara can't make the timed run, perhaps she could prop up a log on
> the door so that when she goes back and hits the switch, the log
> falls in the doorway jamming it open. Then Lara could take her
> time. :)  Having a game with a few things like that, IMO, would
> be infinitely more entertaining than simply and mindlessly having
> to beat the clock. I get tired of those timed runs.

You got it Gary, that's exactly what I mean, for every obstacle there
should be more than one way to get around it. You like time runs? run as
hell. You like to use your brains use the log, You have no brain and
can't run - balance the weight of your equipment and get faster.

>> I think it's time to pack some new revolutianry concepts into TR
>> games,
>> to add to the unpredictable adventure feeling. Enemys that pop out
>> casualy, animals you can scare away, concequences of your doing - but
>> not the stupid TRAOD way - Tailoring the basic gear to your style of
>> gaming, to enhance your prefered way of Raiding.
>> As in "life" the only given thing should be the following ones - The
>> roads, the houses, the temple outlines, lakes, rivers, your main
>> enemys
>> and the artefacts. All the rest: animals, bushmen, tribes, should be
>> randomly. And lot's of free roaming and exploring.
>> When the only sure thing in an walkthrough are the maps and some
>> basic
>> tips how to do this or that, they done it right. That's adventure.
>
> Having things like that happen randomly would add to the replayability
> of the game. However, it would be harder to program. It might be
> several years between games instead of two or three.

Not neccessarily, maybe the first installment would need longer to
develop, but with a good programm layout, it should be able to keep the
basics, adapt skins, events locations, NPG and the storyline.
Anyway I've will never understand that an pubblisher as EIDOS isn't able
to get more singergys out of all their developpers.
TR, Legacy of Kain, Thief at least are ticking almost all along the same
lines. Ripping one basic engines of one of those - at your choice -
should allow you to realizze any other of the other two games with minor
modification. Think about how many games are based on the Unreal or
Half-Life engines?
After almost 25 years of computer games, it should be possible to design
games without prefixed safepoints, with some form of AI that don't
offends you, as in IGI shot first guard standing a feet from his
collegue get cover and the guard doesn't take action.!!?? Remains there
awaiting his destiny.

Write a good engine the first time and sequels would be no more to
produce slower than know.

An almost alwas friendly

Ghost










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Anonymous
April 16, 2005 4:45:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

=>> The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Gary Mitchell
warbled on about "Re: TR7/Legend website question" in a.g.t <<=

> "W. Y." wrote:
> > Is there any Eidos or Crystal Dynamics employee in this NG? Please note
> > this - esp. the bonus level part - down!
>
> You would think there should be! After all, this is the TR newsgroup, not
> hosted by anyone with an agenda. Where better to find out what the fans
> are really thinking. However, in all the time I've been here, I don't
> recall any indication of any Core/Eidos/Crystal people actually visiting.

Mike 'Redleggs' Kelly from the US side of Eidos Interactive used to post
here a few eyars back. Think he was only involved in the distribution
side of things though.


Hmm, now wondering how out of date the micor-UFAQs are..

--
|\ .---. alt.games.tombraider micro-UFAQ4
L .\\ </_\\\\ (Ultra-Frequently Asked Questions v4)
:/ >` (|'|'|)
A Y/\ \_-_/| 1) There is no nude code for any of
\ \ ___/' \_\_ the TR games; please stop asking.
R \ \.--'' /\ /\ \ 2) The full FAQ is dead. Best off
\__.--'(_ \Y/ _)\ \'-._ asking for help here.
A )___ | \ \-._'-. 3) Hints, tips, and walkthroughs for
,-,-< _c `-/ / / '-.\ all the games are available at:
/~/-._[_]--/ / / || http://tombraiders.net/stella
C |_|_ _,`-|~\/_/ \| http://trinity.westhost.com/tomb/
| `-/ \___\/|\` http://www.croftsgate.co.uk
R | | \ \/ 4) TRAOD: mark any queries about the
| | `. \ game with a [*SPOILER*] prefix.
O | | \ \ 5) TRAOD: patch v42 is out.
|__| \__\ 6) TRAOD: crouch in front of the
F |= | \ =\ ghost; move when he stops.
|= | \ =\ 7) TRAOD: good or bad? Mostly bad...
T /= | DrS. | =\__ 8) It's Lara, not Laura! (ILNL!)
|___| snark^ \_____) 9) Please don't post binaries here.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 7:58:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Okay, for those of you who want the "uber-reality" to be the be-all and
end-all of a game, think about this:

If someone were to hunt you down and kill you, in this reality, right
now, would that be real enough for you?

I'm sorry, but the "uber-reality-geeks" have been flaming the rest of
us to death here. If you're not happy, then why are you playing a game
at all? There's plenty of folks who can add the ultimate in realism.
Military, para-military, murderers, and so forth, come to mind.

We're sorry that we're not like you, but you'll have to live with that.
We're a part of the same universe you're occupying. Right now, you're
being anal and a jackass. Stop it now (and you know who you are).
>:-(

(Getting damn tired of people who forget their Netiquette.)
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 2:00:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"snark^" <snarkamedes@tulgeywook.org> wrote in message
news:5rn061pi34h0g03uagu97m80kc0bc25ogc@4ax.com...
>=>> The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Gary Mitchell
> warbled on about "Re: TR7/Legend website question" in a.g.t <<=
>
>> "W. Y." wrote:
>> > Is there any Eidos or Crystal Dynamics employee in this NG? Please note
>> > this - esp. the bonus level part - down!
>>
>> You would think there should be! After all, this is the TR newsgroup,
>> not
>> hosted by anyone with an agenda. Where better to find out what the fans
>> are really thinking. However, in all the time I've been here, I don't
>> recall any indication of any Core/Eidos/Crystal people actually visiting.
>

I really think that the companies should pay someone to actually summarise
the things we say here. But I agree, even if they were here, they might not
have made any comments.

> Mike 'Redleggs' Kelly from the US side of Eidos Interactive used to post
> here a few eyars back. Think he was only involved in the distribution
> side of things though.
>
>

Perhaps there are others here now still but after the complaints about AOD,
are afraid to own up for fear of getting rude replies. But I think we should
assure the undercovers here that this is an NG full of nice people, unlike
in 24hoursupport.helpdesk. Flame wars will not start here, right, folks? :) 

WY

> Hmm, now wondering how out of date the micor-UFAQs are..
>
> --
> |\ .---. alt.games.tombraider micro-UFAQ4
> L .\\ </_\\\\ (Ultra-Frequently Asked Questions v4)
> :/ >` (|'|'|)
> A Y/\ \_-_/| 1) There is no nude code for any of
> \ \ ___/' \_\_ the TR games; please stop asking.
> R \ \.--'' /\ /\ \ 2) The full FAQ is dead. Best off
> \__.--'(_ \Y/ _)\ \'-._ asking for help here.
> A )___ | \ \-._'-. 3) Hints, tips, and walkthroughs for
> ,-,-< _c `-/ / / '-.\ all the games are available at:
> /~/-._[_]--/ / / || http://tombraiders.net/stella
> C |_|_ _,`-|~\/_/ \| http://trinity.westhost.com/tomb/
> | `-/ \___\/|\` http://www.croftsgate.co.uk
> R | | \ \/ 4) TRAOD: mark any queries about the
> | | `. \ game with a [*SPOILER*] prefix.
> O | | \ \ 5) TRAOD: patch v42 is out.
> |__| \__\ 6) TRAOD: crouch in front of the
> F |= | \ =\ ghost; move when he stops.
> |= | \ =\ 7) TRAOD: good or bad? Mostly bad...
> T /= | DrS. | =\__ 8) It's Lara, not Laura! (ILNL!)
> |___| snark^ \_____) 9) Please don't post binaries here.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 2:00:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"W. Y." <yeomy@BLAHBLAHBLAH.singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
news:D 3r41q$71v$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg
> "snark^" <snarkamedes@tulgeywook.org> wrote in message
> news:5rn061pi34h0g03uagu97m80kc0bc25ogc@4ax.com...
>> =>> The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Gary
>> Mitchell warbled on about "Re: TR7/Legend website question" in
>> a.g.t <<=
>>> "W. Y." wrote:
>>>> Is there any Eidos or Crystal Dynamics employee in this NG? Please
>>>> note this - esp. the bonus level part - down!
>>>
>>> You would think there should be! After all, this is the TR
>>> newsgroup, not
>>> hosted by anyone with an agenda. Where better to find out what the
>>> fans are really thinking. However, in all the time I've been here,
>>> I don't recall any indication of any Core/Eidos/Crystal people
>>> actually visiting.
>>
>
> I really think that the companies should pay someone to actually
> summarise the things we say here. But I agree, even if they were
> here, they might not have made any comments.
>
>> Mike 'Redleggs' Kelly from the US side of Eidos Interactive used to
>> post here a few eyars back. Think he was only involved in the
>> distribution side of things though.
>>
>>
>
> Perhaps there are others here now still but after the complaints
> about AOD, are afraid to own up for fear of getting rude replies. But
> I think we should assure the undercovers here that this is an NG full
> of nice people, unlike in 24hoursupport.helpdesk. Flame wars will not
> start here, right, folks? :) 
> WY

There really haven't been any "flamewars" in here to my doddering
recollection :) 
McG.

>
>> Hmm, now wondering how out of date the micor-UFAQs are..
>>
>> --
>> |\ .---. alt.games.tombraider micro-UFAQ4
>> L .\\ </_\\\\ (Ultra-Frequently Asked Questions
>> v4) :/ >` (|'|'|)
>> A Y/\ \_-_/| 1) There is no nude code for any of
>> \ \ ___/' \_\_ the TR games; please stop
>> asking. R \ \.--'' /\ /\ \ 2) The full FAQ is dead.
>> Best off \__.--'(_ \Y/ _)\ \'-._ asking for help here.
>> A )___ | \ \-._'-. 3) Hints, tips, and walkthroughs
>> for ,-,-< _c `-/ / / '-.\ all the games are available
>> at: /~/-._[_]--/ / / || http://tombraiders.net/stella
>> C |_|_ _,`-|~\/_/ \|
>> http://trinity.westhost.com/tomb/ | `-/ \___\/|\`
>> http://www.croftsgate.co.uk R | | \ \/ 4)
>> TRAOD: mark any queries about
>> the | | `. \ game with a [*SPOILER*]
>> prefix. O | | \ \ 5) TRAOD: patch v42 is out.
>> |__| \__\ 6) TRAOD: crouch in front of the
>> F |= | \ =\ ghost; move when he stops.
>> |= | \ =\ 7) TRAOD: good or bad? Mostly
>> bad... T /= | DrS. | =\__ 8) It's Lara, not Laura!
>> (ILNL!) |___| snark^ \_____) 9) Please don't post
>> binaries here.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 1:49:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"W. Y." wrote:
>
> "snark^" <snarkamedes@tulgeywook.org> wrote in message
> news:5rn061pi34h0g03uagu97m80kc0bc25ogc@4ax.com...
> >=>> The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Gary Mitchell
> > warbled on about "Re: TR7/Legend website question" in a.g.t <<=
> >
> >> "W. Y." wrote:
> >> > Is there any Eidos or Crystal Dynamics employee in this NG? Please note
> >> > this - esp. the bonus level part - down!
> >>
> >> You would think there should be! After all, this is the TR newsgroup,
> >> not
> >> hosted by anyone with an agenda. Where better to find out what the fans
> >> are really thinking. However, in all the time I've been here, I don't
> >> recall any indication of any Core/Eidos/Crystal people actually visiting.
> >
>
> I really think that the companies should pay someone to actually summarise
> the things we say here. But I agree, even if they were here, they might not
> have made any comments.

It's possible they are monitoring in secret. But why? Companies
pay good money on focus groups and surveys... Here's one right here
and it wouldn't cost them a dime. I find it really hard to believe
they don't know about this NG. Or, maybe they consider us just a
fringe group (to put it mildly) and don't really care much what we
think. That's possible too.

> > Mike 'Redleggs' Kelly from the US side of Eidos Interactive used to post
> > here a few eyars back. Think he was only involved in the distribution
> > side of things though.
> >
> >
>
> Perhaps there are others here now still but after the complaints about AOD,
> are afraid to own up for fear of getting rude replies. But I think we should
> assure the undercovers here that this is an NG full of nice people, unlike
> in 24hoursupport.helpdesk. Flame wars will not start here, right, folks? :) 

There might be puffs of smoke and a flash of flame now and then,
but for the most part, yeah, pretty much. ...depends on whether
Eep shows up. ;) 

-- G

> WY
>
> > Hmm, now wondering how out of date the micor-UFAQs are..
> >
> > --
> > |\ .---. alt.games.tombraider micro-UFAQ4
> > L .\\ </_\\\\ (Ultra-Frequently Asked Questions v4)
> > :/ >` (|'|'|)
> > A Y/\ \_-_/| 1) There is no nude code for any of
> > \ \ ___/' \_\_ the TR games; please stop asking.
> > R \ \.--'' /\ /\ \ 2) The full FAQ is dead. Best off
> > \__.--'(_ \Y/ _)\ \'-._ asking for help here.
> > A )___ | \ \-._'-. 3) Hints, tips, and walkthroughs for
> > ,-,-< _c `-/ / / '-.\ all the games are available at:
> > /~/-._[_]--/ / / || http://tombraiders.net/stella
> > C |_|_ _,`-|~\/_/ \| http://trinity.westhost.com/tomb/
> > | `-/ \___\/|\` http://www.croftsgate.co.uk
> > R | | \ \/ 4) TRAOD: mark any queries about the
> > | | `. \ game with a [*SPOILER*] prefix.
> > O | | \ \ 5) TRAOD: patch v42 is out.
> > |__| \__\ 6) TRAOD: crouch in front of the
> > F |= | \ =\ ghost; move when he stops.
> > |= | \ =\ 7) TRAOD: good or bad? Mostly bad...
> > T /= | DrS. | =\__ 8) It's Lara, not Laura! (ILNL!)
> > |___| snark^ \_____) 9) Please don't post binaries here.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 3:31:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
>
> Okay, for those of you who want the "uber-reality" to be the be-all and
> end-all of a game, think about this:
>
> If someone were to hunt you down and kill you, in this reality, right
> now, would that be real enough for you?
>
> I'm sorry, but the "uber-reality-geeks" have been flaming the rest of
> us to death here. If you're not happy, then why are you playing a game
> at all? There's plenty of folks who can add the ultimate in realism.
> Military, para-military, murderers, and so forth, come to mind.
>
> We're sorry that we're not like you, but you'll have to live with that.
> We're a part of the same universe you're occupying. Right now, you're
> being anal and a jackass. Stop it now (and you know who you are).
> >:-(

I think I'm the only one who was speaking in favor of realism recently,
so apparently this was aimed at me. It's obvious that you also complete
misunderstood what I was saying. So, let me try putting it this way:

In my opinion, the Myst games are very realistic, they just drip with
realism, even more so than TR in some ways. (Don't know about Uru,
haven't played it yet.) And those take place in a total fantasy
universe too. But within that universe, there's a strong "you are here"
feel to it. They play just like you're really there. This makes them
very absorbing. It's one of the qualities I like best about TR too.
And *that* was my point about realism. Clearer?

I have no clue what point you're making with that hunt-me-down example.

-- G
April 18, 2005 2:01:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:_5v8e.7003$h6.4878@tornado.texas.rr.com...
<snip>
> So, where is the cross point of realism and Fun in the games? That's
> a bit of a variable as applied to each player. We all see it a
> little differently, and we all enjoy different aspects of the same
> things in the games. Some might want to see only jumps and no ropes
> in the game, but there is both so each tolerates a dislike to be able
> to enjoy their respective likes :) 
> Peace Brothers!
> McG.
That's the point, almost everyone has his likes or dislikes. Since TR
series was groundbreaking back at beginning. Today it would be
groundbreaking to add variables, to tailor the game closer to ones
liking. Most important to offer alternative ways to achieve the
objectives. Offer choices that affect, the outcoming of your adventure,
without beeing tedious and most important without affecting the original
concept of the game. IMO it's technically possible to create the game
that it's possible to play, as any TR game before, if that's your
desire. And to give options to less experienced gamers to have a game
that's easier to solve, without using cheats, level skips or gamesaves.
And most important - without dumbing it down.

An almost always friendly

Ghost



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 2:01:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Ghost wrote:
>
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:_5v8e.7003$h6.4878@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> <snip>
> > So, where is the cross point of realism and Fun in the games? That's
> > a bit of a variable as applied to each player. We all see it a
> > little differently, and we all enjoy different aspects of the same
> > things in the games. Some might want to see only jumps and no ropes
> > in the game, but there is both so each tolerates a dislike to be able
> > to enjoy their respective likes :) 
> > Peace Brothers!
> > McG.
> That's the point, almost everyone has his likes or dislikes. Since TR
> series was groundbreaking back at beginning. Today it would be
> groundbreaking to add variables, to tailor the game closer to ones
> liking. Most important to offer alternative ways to achieve the
> objectives. Offer choices that affect, the outcoming of your adventure,
> without beeing tedious and most important without affecting the original
> concept of the game. IMO it's technically possible to create the game
> that it's possible to play, as any TR game before, if that's your
> desire. And to give options to less experienced gamers to have a game
> that's easier to solve, without using cheats, level skips or gamesaves.
> And most important - without dumbing it down.


There's a lot of things they could do to add variability without adding
too much in the way of programming complexity. It wouldn't take much to
add a difficulty setting. There could be a variety of difficulties too,
more or fewer weapons, more or fewer bad guys, bad guy aggressiveness,
rougher terrain, etc., etc.

The question of linearity always comes up. That *would* add to the
programming complexity, but IMO would be well worth it. McG is always
talking about how nice it is in Morrowind to just go off on your own
in any direction. TR is the kind of game where they could do that to
some extent.

-- G

> An almost always friendly
>
> Ghost
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 2:39:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:426374DE.A6A00D2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> Ghost wrote:
>>
>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
>> news:_5v8e.7003$h6.4878@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> <snip>
>>> So, where is the cross point of realism and Fun in the games?
>>> That's a bit of a variable as applied to each player. We all see
>>> it a little differently, and we all enjoy different aspects of the
>>> same things in the games. Some might want to see only jumps and no
>>> ropes in the game, but there is both so each tolerates a dislike to
>>> be able to enjoy their respective likes :) 
>>> Peace Brothers!
>>> McG.
>> That's the point, almost everyone has his likes or dislikes. Since TR
>> series was groundbreaking back at beginning. Today it would be
>> groundbreaking to add variables, to tailor the game closer to ones
>> liking. Most important to offer alternative ways to achieve the
>> objectives. Offer choices that affect, the outcoming of your
>> adventure,
>> without beeing tedious and most important without affecting the
>> original
>> concept of the game. IMO it's technically possible to create the game
>> that it's possible to play, as any TR game before, if that's your
>> desire. And to give options to less experienced gamers to have a game
>> that's easier to solve, without using cheats, level skips or
>> gamesaves.
>> And most important - without dumbing it down.
>
>
> There's a lot of things they could do to add variability without
> adding too much in the way of programming complexity. It wouldn't
> take much to add a difficulty setting. There could be a variety of
> difficulties too, more or fewer weapons, more or fewer bad guys, bad
> guy aggressiveness, rougher terrain, etc., etc.
>
> The question of linearity always comes up. That *would* add to the
> programming complexity, but IMO would be well worth it. McG is always
> talking about how nice it is in Morrowind to just go off on your own
> in any direction. TR is the kind of game where they could do that to
> some extent.
>
> -- G

Non linear. Well, that could take several directions. Within the TR's
there is a degree of non-linerarity, even in AoD somewhat. With a game
like Morrowind, you have to *choose* to do a specific thing. Then, of
course, there is linerarity....to solving a quest. The thing is, you
have the whole existence of the game world to do it in. Not some
"level" or map. When I got the game I was excited to realize I could
traverse the entirety of the whole game world and not *do* the story, or
quests as it were. I could simply adventure. I have since then added
the two expansion packs and and not done completing my travels. July 1
will be three years since I started this adventure :)  And there are so
many ways you can complete the quests parts of it too. I think this
qualifies as a Wide Open game. It was also built to be modded.
The complex programming would be in the quests, the story. Tombraider
could indeed be built to do this, and would be enormously great fun for
a lot of people. You could pick up and adventure to go on just like in
the movie, where Hillary opens a big 3 ring binder and mentions a
shipwreck and Egypt. Lara could meet with someone in a local place,
like the British Museum. It would be very easy (comparatively) to
create a fictional place for Laras world of adventure. They wouldn't
have to be "accurate" in mapping details, like streets, buildings etc.
Granted, there would likely have to be sections to the game because of
the sheer size of the locations. But within those sections (Ievels)
they could be completely contiguous and Lara would always be able to
cover every inch repeatedly. Even in Morrowind, you do have 'sections'
of a sort. You have INdoors and OUTdoors, there is a transition from
going inside a home, room or ship etc. There is also fast-travel. You
can get to Solstheim on foot and swimming...but its tedious. You can
also take a ship or even use Mage teleportation. You can't do that
with Tribunal, but you can with Bloodmoon.
One of the first thoughts I had when I started playing in Morrowind was
"This would be a fantastic way to do Tombraider!!!" And Laras life and
world and character means it wouldn't resemble Morrowind at all.
I don't know anything about the game engine CD is using to build the
game around. I already see some things I don't like. They already have
a good engine that was used with AoD. Doesn't look like they're using
it.
McG.

>
>> An almost always friendly
>>
>> Ghost
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
>> News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
>> World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms -
>> Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 4:19:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:426374DE.A6A00D2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> > Ghost wrote:
> >>
> >> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> news:_5v8e.7003$h6.4878@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> >> <snip>
> >>> So, where is the cross point of realism and Fun in the games?
> >>> That's a bit of a variable as applied to each player. We all see
> >>> it a little differently, and we all enjoy different aspects of the
> >>> same things in the games. Some might want to see only jumps and no
> >>> ropes in the game, but there is both so each tolerates a dislike to
> >>> be able to enjoy their respective likes :) 
> >>> Peace Brothers!
> >>> McG.
> >> That's the point, almost everyone has his likes or dislikes. Since TR
> >> series was groundbreaking back at beginning. Today it would be
> >> groundbreaking to add variables, to tailor the game closer to ones
> >> liking. Most important to offer alternative ways to achieve the
> >> objectives. Offer choices that affect, the outcoming of your
> >> adventure,
> >> without beeing tedious and most important without affecting the
> >> original
> >> concept of the game. IMO it's technically possible to create the game
> >> that it's possible to play, as any TR game before, if that's your
> >> desire. And to give options to less experienced gamers to have a game
> >> that's easier to solve, without using cheats, level skips or
> >> gamesaves.
> >> And most important - without dumbing it down.
> >
> >
> > There's a lot of things they could do to add variability without
> > adding too much in the way of programming complexity. It wouldn't
> > take much to add a difficulty setting. There could be a variety of
> > difficulties too, more or fewer weapons, more or fewer bad guys, bad
> > guy aggressiveness, rougher terrain, etc., etc.
> >
> > The question of linearity always comes up. That *would* add to the
> > programming complexity, but IMO would be well worth it. McG is always
> > talking about how nice it is in Morrowind to just go off on your own
> > in any direction. TR is the kind of game where they could do that to
> > some extent.
> >
> > -- G
>
> Non linear. Well, that could take several directions. Within the TR's
> there is a degree of non-linerarity, even in AoD somewhat. With a game
> like Morrowind, you have to *choose* to do a specific thing. Then, of
> course, there is linerarity....to solving a quest. The thing is, you
> have the whole existence of the game world to do it in. Not some
> "level" or map. When I got the game I was excited to realize I could
> traverse the entirety of the whole game world and not *do* the story, or
> quests as it were. I could simply adventure. I have since then added
> the two expansion packs and and not done completing my travels. July 1
> will be three years since I started this adventure :)  And there are so
> many ways you can complete the quests parts of it too. I think this
> qualifies as a Wide Open game. It was also built to be modded.
> The complex programming would be in the quests, the story. Tombraider
> could indeed be built to do this, and would be enormously great fun for
> a lot of people. You could pick up and adventure to go on just like in
> the movie, where Hillary opens a big 3 ring binder and mentions a
> shipwreck and Egypt. Lara could meet with someone in a local place,
> like the British Museum. It would be very easy (comparatively) to
> create a fictional place for Laras world of adventure. They wouldn't
> have to be "accurate" in mapping details, like streets, buildings etc.
> Granted, there would likely have to be sections to the game because of
> the sheer size of the locations. But within those sections (Ievels)
> they could be completely contiguous and Lara would always be able to
> cover every inch repeatedly. Even in Morrowind, you do have 'sections'
> of a sort. You have INdoors and OUTdoors, there is a transition from
> going inside a home, room or ship etc. There is also fast-travel. You
> can get to Solstheim on foot and swimming...but its tedious. You can
> also take a ship or even use Mage teleportation. You can't do that
> with Tribunal, but you can with Bloodmoon.
> One of the first thoughts I had when I started playing in Morrowind was
> "This would be a fantastic way to do Tombraider!!!" And Laras life and
> world and character means it wouldn't resemble Morrowind at all.
> I don't know anything about the game engine CD is using to build the
> game around. I already see some things I don't like. They already have
> a good engine that was used with AoD. Doesn't look like they're using
> it.
> McG.

Well, I've never played Morrowind, but I have played Myst. It's a little
bit like Morrowind in the sense that you can go anywhere you want, even
back the way you came. In TR, you can only do that to a small extent,
you can't go back to a previous level for example. But there really
isn't any reason I can think of why not, they just decided to not give
us that ability for some reason. Even if they did, once you go through
an area, there isn't much else to do except look around. It's the same
with Myst, except many of the things you find continue to work. The
stuff in TR tends to be one-shot deals.

The real challenge for the programmers would be to come up with a way to
make it interesting to go through an area again. They made an attempt in
TRLR... remember we had to revisit some of the levels? That was the first
time they did anything like that. It was OK, but could have been better.
It'd be nice to see what they could have come up with after some practice
and experience. I hope Crystal Dynamics uses Core's past experience, but
I'm not going to hold my breath. At least they said something about
returning to TR's roots, so there's hope. But from what little I've heard
about the engine, it doesn't exactly sound fantastic. Maybe at least it
will run on older machines. ;) 

-- G
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 5:05:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:42644EE7.B41E3DE7@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:426374DE.A6A00D2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com
>>> Ghost wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>> news:_5v8e.7003$h6.4878@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> So, where is the cross point of realism and Fun in the games?
>>>>> That's a bit of a variable as applied to each player. We all see
>>>>> it a little differently, and we all enjoy different aspects of the
>>>>> same things in the games. Some might want to see only jumps and
>>>>> no ropes in the game, but there is both so each tolerates a
>>>>> dislike to be able to enjoy their respective likes :) 
>>>>> Peace Brothers!
>>>>> McG.
>>>> That's the point, almost everyone has his likes or dislikes. Since
>>>> TR series was groundbreaking back at beginning. Today it would be
>>>> groundbreaking to add variables, to tailor the game closer to ones
>>>> liking. Most important to offer alternative ways to achieve the
>>>> objectives. Offer choices that affect, the outcoming of your
>>>> adventure,
>>>> without beeing tedious and most important without affecting the
>>>> original
>>>> concept of the game. IMO it's technically possible to create the
>>>> game that it's possible to play, as any TR game before, if that's
>>>> your desire. And to give options to less experienced gamers to
>>>> have a game that's easier to solve, without using cheats, level
>>>> skips or gamesaves.
>>>> And most important - without dumbing it down.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's a lot of things they could do to add variability without
>>> adding too much in the way of programming complexity. It wouldn't
>>> take much to add a difficulty setting. There could be a variety of
>>> difficulties too, more or fewer weapons, more or fewer bad guys, bad
>>> guy aggressiveness, rougher terrain, etc., etc.
>>>
>>> The question of linearity always comes up. That *would* add to the
>>> programming complexity, but IMO would be well worth it. McG is
>>> always talking about how nice it is in Morrowind to just go off on
>>> your own in any direction. TR is the kind of game where they could
>>> do that to some extent.
>>>
>>> -- G
>>
>> Non linear. Well, that could take several directions. Within the
>> TR's there is a degree of non-linerarity, even in AoD somewhat.
>> With a game like Morrowind, you have to *choose* to do a specific
>> thing. Then, of course, there is linerarity....to solving a quest.
>> The thing is, you have the whole existence of the game world to do
>> it in. Not some "level" or map. When I got the game I was excited
>> to realize I could traverse the entirety of the whole game world and
>> not *do* the story, or quests as it were. I could simply adventure.
>> I have since then added the two expansion packs and and not done
>> completing my travels. July 1 will be three years since I started
>> this adventure :)  And there are so many ways you can complete the
>> quests parts of it too. I think this qualifies as a Wide Open game.
>> It was also built to be modded.
>> The complex programming would be in the quests, the story.
>> Tombraider could indeed be built to do this, and would be enormously
>> great fun for a lot of people. You could pick up and adventure to
>> go on just like in the movie, where Hillary opens a big 3 ring
>> binder and mentions a shipwreck and Egypt. Lara could meet with
>> someone in a local place, like the British Museum. It would be
>> very easy (comparatively) to create a fictional place for Laras
>> world of adventure. They wouldn't have to be "accurate" in mapping
>> details, like streets, buildings etc. Granted, there would likely
>> have to be sections to the game because of the sheer size of the
>> locations. But within those sections (Ievels) they could be
>> completely contiguous and Lara would always be able to cover every
>> inch repeatedly. Even in Morrowind, you do have 'sections' of a
>> sort. You have INdoors and OUTdoors, there is a transition from
>> going inside a home, room or ship etc. There is also fast-travel.
>> You can get to Solstheim on foot and swimming...but its tedious.
>> You can also take a ship or even use Mage teleportation. You can't
>> do that with Tribunal, but you can with Bloodmoon.
>> One of the first thoughts I had when I started playing in Morrowind
>> was "This would be a fantastic way to do Tombraider!!!" And Laras
>> life and world and character means it wouldn't resemble Morrowind at
>> all.
>> I don't know anything about the game engine CD is using to build the
>> game around. I already see some things I don't like. They already
>> have a good engine that was used with AoD. Doesn't look like
>> they're using it.
>> McG.
>
> Well, I've never played Morrowind, but I have played Myst. It's a
> little bit like Morrowind in the sense that you can go anywhere you
> want, even back the way you came.

Morrowind and Myst are completely different engines. Each area in Myst
is a self contained worldlet. Four 'ages' to explore, plus 'home'.
Morrowind is a world composed of 'cells'. On some slower systems there
is a slight pause or hesitation crossing cell boundaries. It doesn't
affect anything visually, that's contiguous. You could generate all of
Egypt with that game engine. But, there are loads of spaces that would
be 'dead' areas, nothing to do but literally walk or run through them.
You'd want to go where the action is. You naturally head for that.
It's like that in Morrowind really :) 

> In TR, you can only do that to a
> small extent, you can't go back to a previous level for example. But
> there really isn't any reason I can think of why not, they just
> decided to not give
> us that ability for some reason. Even if they did, once you go
> through an area, there isn't much else to do except look around.
> It's the same with Myst, except many of the things you find continue
> to work. The stuff in TR tends to be one-shot deals.

Right, with their engine, it'd be too easy to break the script. This
does happen occasionally in Morrowind BTW. But not often. TR is said
to be "on rails" because of the way it's scripted. It is mostly in at
one end, exit at the other, adventure and puzzles in between, move to
the next section of the 'ride'...repeat. In this sense, Laras world has
always been rather finite. Lots of fun in those levels, but it's still
A to B to C to D to END.

>
> The real challenge for the programmers would be to come up with a way
> to make it interesting to go through an area again. They made an
> attempt in TRLR... remember we had to revisit some of the levels?
> That was the first time they did anything like that. It was OK, but
> could have been better. It'd be nice to see what they could have come
> up with after some practice and experience. I hope Crystal Dynamics
> uses Core's past experience, but I'm not going to hold my breath. At
> least they said something about returning to TR's roots, so there's
> hope. But from what little I've heard about the engine, it doesn't
> exactly sound fantastic. Maybe at least it will run on older
> machines. ;) 

Going by the look of that Flash thing, yep, it will run on older
systems. I had hoped for more :( 
McG.

>
> -- G
April 19, 2005 12:37:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:42644EE7.B41E3DE7@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> McGrandpa wrote:

>snip<

> Even if they did, once you go through
> an area, there isn't much else to do except look around. It's the
> same
> with Myst, except many of the things you find continue to work. The
> stuff in TR tends to be one-shot deals.

Ever did forget or miss an secret? That's one of the best reasons to
have the ability to backtrack on levels. It's an "non option" to have to
reload an level to get all secrets, or to have to cheat.

> The real challenge for the programmers would be to come up with a way
> to
> make it interesting to go through an area again. They made an attempt
> in
> TRLR... remember we had to revisit some of the levels?

There are lot's of games that triggers new NPG's or enemys randomly
everytime you return to an level. So this shouldn't be rocket sience.

an almost always friendly

Ghost




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Anonymous
April 19, 2005 12:37:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:42644EE7.B41E3DE7@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> > McGrandpa wrote:
> >>
> >> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> news:426374DE.A6A00D2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> >>> Ghost wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> >>>> news:_5v8e.7003$h6.4878@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> >>>> <snip>
> >>>>> So, where is the cross point of realism and Fun in the games?
> >>>>> That's a bit of a variable as applied to each player. We all see
> >>>>> it a little differently, and we all enjoy different aspects of the
> >>>>> same things in the games. Some might want to see only jumps and
> >>>>> no ropes in the game, but there is both so each tolerates a
> >>>>> dislike to be able to enjoy their respective likes :) 
> >>>>> Peace Brothers!
> >>>>> McG.
> >>>> That's the point, almost everyone has his likes or dislikes. Since
> >>>> TR series was groundbreaking back at beginning. Today it would be
> >>>> groundbreaking to add variables, to tailor the game closer to ones
> >>>> liking. Most important to offer alternative ways to achieve the
> >>>> objectives. Offer choices that affect, the outcoming of your
> >>>> adventure,
> >>>> without beeing tedious and most important without affecting the
> >>>> original
> >>>> concept of the game. IMO it's technically possible to create the
> >>>> game that it's possible to play, as any TR game before, if that's
> >>>> your desire. And to give options to less experienced gamers to
> >>>> have a game that's easier to solve, without using cheats, level
> >>>> skips or gamesaves.
> >>>> And most important - without dumbing it down.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There's a lot of things they could do to add variability without
> >>> adding too much in the way of programming complexity. It wouldn't
> >>> take much to add a difficulty setting. There could be a variety of
> >>> difficulties too, more or fewer weapons, more or fewer bad guys, bad
> >>> guy aggressiveness, rougher terrain, etc., etc.
> >>>
> >>> The question of linearity always comes up. That *would* add to the
> >>> programming complexity, but IMO would be well worth it. McG is
> >>> always talking about how nice it is in Morrowind to just go off on
> >>> your own in any direction. TR is the kind of game where they could
> >>> do that to some extent.
> >>>
> >>> -- G
> >>
> >> Non linear. Well, that could take several directions. Within the
> >> TR's there is a degree of non-linerarity, even in AoD somewhat.
> >> With a game like Morrowind, you have to *choose* to do a specific
> >> thing. Then, of course, there is linerarity....to solving a quest.
> >> The thing is, you have the whole existence of the game world to do
> >> it in. Not some "level" or map. When I got the game I was excited
> >> to realize I could traverse the entirety of the whole game world and
> >> not *do* the story, or quests as it were. I could simply adventure.
> >> I have since then added the two expansion packs and and not done
> >> completing my travels. July 1 will be three years since I started
> >> this adventure :)  And there are so many ways you can complete the
> >> quests parts of it too. I think this qualifies as a Wide Open game.
> >> It was also built to be modded.
> >> The complex programming would be in the quests, the story.
> >> Tombraider could indeed be built to do this, and would be enormously
> >> great fun for a lot of people. You could pick up and adventure to
> >> go on just like in the movie, where Hillary opens a big 3 ring
> >> binder and mentions a shipwreck and Egypt. Lara could meet with
> >> someone in a local place, like the British Museum. It would be
> >> very easy (comparatively) to create a fictional place for Laras
> >> world of adventure. They wouldn't have to be "accurate" in mapping
> >> details, like streets, buildings etc. Granted, there would likely
> >> have to be sections to the game because of the sheer size of the
> >> locations. But within those sections (Ievels) they could be
> >> completely contiguous and Lara would always be able to cover every
> >> inch repeatedly. Even in Morrowind, you do have 'sections' of a
> >> sort. You have INdoors and OUTdoors, there is a transition from
> >> going inside a home, room or ship etc. There is also fast-travel.
> >> You can get to Solstheim on foot and swimming...but its tedious.
> >> You can also take a ship or even use Mage teleportation. You can't
> >> do that with Tribunal, but you can with Bloodmoon.
> >> One of the first thoughts I had when I started playing in Morrowind
> >> was "This would be a fantastic way to do Tombraider!!!" And Laras
> >> life and world and character means it wouldn't resemble Morrowind at
> >> all.
> >> I don't know anything about the game engine CD is using to build the
> >> game around. I already see some things I don't like. They already
> >> have a good engine that was used with AoD. Doesn't look like
> >> they're using it.
> >> McG.
> >
> > Well, I've never played Morrowind, but I have played Myst. It's a
> > little bit like Morrowind in the sense that you can go anywhere you
> > want, even back the way you came.
>
> Morrowind and Myst are completely different engines. Each area in Myst
> is a self contained worldlet. Four 'ages' to explore, plus 'home'.
> Morrowind is a world composed of 'cells'. On some slower systems there
> is a slight pause or hesitation crossing cell boundaries. It doesn't
> affect anything visually, that's contiguous. You could generate all of
> Egypt with that game engine.

Sounds like some flight sims... as you go along, it eventually loads up
the scenery of the up coming area and you simply continue. The area you
explore (fly over) is limited only by the data on the disks and the number
of disks. If they did that with TR... wow, unlimited exploring! They
could have sold add-on disks for the games, just like extra detailed
scenery disks for the fligh sim. :) 

> But, there are loads of spaces that would
> be 'dead' areas, nothing to do but literally walk or run through them.
> You'd want to go where the action is. You naturally head for that.
> It's like that in Morrowind really :) 
>
> > In TR, you can only do that to a
> > small extent, you can't go back to a previous level for example. But
> > there really isn't any reason I can think of why not, they just
> > decided to not give
> > us that ability for some reason. Even if they did, once you go
> > through an area, there isn't much else to do except look around.
> > It's the same with Myst, except many of the things you find continue
> > to work. The stuff in TR tends to be one-shot deals.
>
> Right, with their engine, it'd be too easy to break the script. This
> does happen occasionally in Morrowind BTW. But not often. TR is said
> to be "on rails" because of the way it's scripted. It is mostly in at
> one end, exit at the other, adventure and puzzles in between, move to
> the next section of the 'ride'...repeat. In this sense, Laras world has
> always been rather finite. Lots of fun in those levels, but it's still
> A to B to C to D to END.

Instead of a scripted play, it should be more like a simulator. The
engine would simply handle whatever is going on at that particular spot
at that particular time. It looks like it is a kind of simulator already,
but, well, you know what I mean. If the engine doesn't care about anything
except what's there at the moment, all you need is more data on more disks.
Lara's world could have been huge, and not on rails. The more I think
about my add-on disk comment, the more I like it. :) 


> >
> > The real challenge for the programmers would be to come up with a way
> > to make it interesting to go through an area again. They made an
> > attempt in TRLR... remember we had to revisit some of the levels?
> > That was the first time they did anything like that. It was OK, but
> > could have been better. It'd be nice to see what they could have come
> > up with after some practice and experience. I hope Crystal Dynamics
> > uses Core's past experience, but I'm not going to hold my breath. At
> > least they said something about returning to TR's roots, so there's
> > hope. But from what little I've heard about the engine, it doesn't
> > exactly sound fantastic. Maybe at least it will run on older
> > machines. ;) 
>
> Going by the look of that Flash thing, yep, it will run on older
> systems. I had hoped for more :( 

Well, not so fast... (no pun intended). A little creativity and
cleaverness will go a long way. The older machines may not be able to
keep up with a 100,000 poly Lara and grotesquely detailed environments,
but there's more to making the game fun and interesting than that. Just
like special effects in movies, they can help a good story, but can't
make up for a bad story.

-- G
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 12:49:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Ghost wrote:
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:42644EE7.B41E3DE7@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > McGrandpa wrote:
>
> >snip<
>
> > Even if they did, once you go through
> > an area, there isn't much else to do except look around. It's the
> > same
> > with Myst, except many of the things you find continue to work. The
> > stuff in TR tends to be one-shot deals.
>
> Ever did forget or miss an secret? That's one of the best reasons to
> have the ability to backtrack on levels. It's an "non option" to have to
> reload an level to get all secrets, or to have to cheat.
>
> > The real challenge for the programmers would be to come up with a way
> > to
> > make it interesting to go through an area again. They made an attempt
> > in
> > TRLR... remember we had to revisit some of the levels?
>
> There are lot's of games that triggers new NPG's or enemys randomly
> everytime you return to an level. So this shouldn't be rocket sience.

It's not just that... that's easy enough, as you say. The challenge
would be to have other interesting things also be available.

As Lara goes through an area, she tends to change things, like triggering
certain traps that stay triggered, breaking things that simply stay
broken. They could have it so an already visited area has other things
open up that weren't available before. I haven't thought this through
very well, but just off the top of my head... maybe a bolder that rolls
down on Lara's first pass through could have opened up another passage
on her next visit, a short-cut or whatever. Or maybe it rolled over and
broke open a stone seal that had covered a secret map. I'm sure we could
think of a lot of possibilities if we sat down and put some time into it.
Stuff like that would make a relatively small game effectively much bigger.

-- G
April 19, 2005 3:22:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:4264C39A.7CF7412B@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> snip <
>> Morrowind and Myst are completely different engines. Each area in
>> Myst
>> is a self contained worldlet. Four 'ages' to explore, plus 'home'.
>> Morrowind is a world composed of 'cells'. On some slower systems
>> there
>> is a slight pause or hesitation crossing cell boundaries. It doesn't
>> affect anything visually, that's contiguous. You could generate all
>> of
>> Egypt with that game engine.
>
> Sounds like some flight sims... as you go along, it eventually loads
> up
> the scenery of the up coming area and you simply continue. The area
> you
> explore (fly over) is limited only by the data on the disks and the
> number
> of disks. If they did that with TR... wow, unlimited exploring! They
> could have sold add-on disks for the games, just like extra detailed
> scenery disks for the fligh sim. :) 

>snip<
> Instead of a scripted play, it should be more like a simulator. The
> engine would simply handle whatever is going on at that particular
> spot
> at that particular time. It looks like it is a kind of simulator
> already,
> but, well, you know what I mean. If the engine doesn't care about
> anything
> except what's there at the moment, all you need is more data on more
> disks.
> Lara's world could have been huge, and not on rails. The more I think
> about my add-on disk comment, the more I like it. :) 

That's it. A good game *simulator like* engine (attention I didn't say I
want an simulator!) in an adventure game would be groundbreaking, first
as gaming experience, and second also on the financial side for an game
producer. Do it right the first time, make a great game. And till the
next big technology stepup you use your engine for entire new games or
addons to please the fans. Would shorten the wait for any new
installment, without becoming boring. Fans are happy and
producers/distributors cut production costs.

>snip<
> Well, not so fast... (no pun intended). A little creativity and
> cleaverness will go a long way. The older machines may not be able to
> keep up with a 100,000 poly Lara and grotesquely detailed
> environments,
> but there's more to making the game fun and interesting than that.
> Just
> like special effects in movies, they can help a good story, but can't
> make up for a bad story.

I always would prefere an TR with the grafics of TRLR and another great
storyline, then any ultrarealistic super duper grafics with a poor
story.

An almost always friendly

Ghost






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April 19, 2005 4:31:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:4264C65A.18554B77@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Ghost wrote:
>>
>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> ha scritto nel
>> messaggio
>> news:42644EE7.B41E3DE7@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
>> > McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> >snip<
>>
>> > Even if they did, once you go through
>> > an area, there isn't much else to do except look around. It's the
>> > same
>> > with Myst, except many of the things you find continue to work.
>> > The
>> > stuff in TR tends to be one-shot deals.
>>
>> Ever did forget or miss an secret? That's one of the best reasons to
>> have the ability to backtrack on levels. It's an "non option" to have
>> to
>> reload an level to get all secrets, or to have to cheat.
>>
>> > The real challenge for the programmers would be to come up with a
>> > way
>> > to
>> > make it interesting to go through an area again. They made an
>> > attempt
>> > in
>> > TRLR... remember we had to revisit some of the levels?
>>
>> There are lot's of games that triggers new NPG's or enemys randomly
>> everytime you return to an level. So this shouldn't be rocket sience.
>
> It's not just that... that's easy enough, as you say. The challenge
> would be to have other interesting things also be available.

I have learnt to ask little to get even less ;-)

> As Lara goes through an area, she tends to change things, like
> triggering
> certain traps that stay triggered, breaking things that simply stay
> broken. They could have it so an already visited area has other
> things
> open up that weren't available before. I haven't thought this through
> very well, but just off the top of my head... maybe a bolder that
> rolls
> down on Lara's first pass through could have opened up another passage
> on her next visit, a short-cut or whatever. Or maybe it rolled over
> and
> broke open a stone seal that had covered a secret map. I'm sure we
> could
> think of a lot of possibilities if we sat down and put some time into
> it.
> Stuff like that would make a relatively small game effectively much
> bigger.
>
> -- G
>
Maybe the nice little Dino eggs, wouldn't be eggs anymore :-), but lots
of little pesky T-Rexes with an hunger for inprudent adventurers.

Or you have to learn that the T-Rex hold an Tribe of obscure Canibals at
bay, and when you return they like to have Lara on the grill ;-)

What a game that would be: the adventure feel and beauty of the old TR
series (Anicent tombs, lost civilizations, presumably estinct creatures,
beautyfull ambients, traps, boulders, spikes) + Free roaming + Hughe
maps + "an action = reaction concept" + intelligent enemys + randomly
created events and NPC + multiple solutions to achive your goals.

And any x-mas some nice addon. To continue the adventure ......

How many plots we haven't neither touched?
- Finding Eldorado climbing up to Machu Pichu
- The holy gral (From UK to France to Jerusalem)
- Some trip to Vatican city and the Cathedral of Saint Peter (can you
imagine this scenery? The Swiss Guards, the big Cupola with all those
hidden passages?)
- The treasure of Salomon (From the catacombs of Jerusalem to the
Jungles of Sudan)
- The Amber room and other Treasures of the Zar (From Russia to Germany
with an hughe level in the underground - not the tube, the bunkers - of
Berlin)
- The treasure of the templars
- Finding King Arthurs Tomb and Merlins Diary
- A return to Venice to find the secret Formula of the Borgias poison or
maybe DaVincis lost formula to convert lead to gold ........
- Maybe some Alien Twist begining with new findings at Rosewell
- Finding the legendary Elephant cemetery with tons of tusks
- Finding a lost/forgoten world in the center of Dark Africa, to find
an tribe which is resistent to the Marburg virus.
- Some Sci-Fi twist Lara on the Dark side of the moon finding proof of
an anicent culture ;-)
- A return to China to discover secret passages in the big wall leading
to ....... maybe some stocked Dragon eggs.
- A return to Jungles and Temples of India.
and also the nephilhim plot isn't finished.

But if CD cant accomplish that - give us a game at least on par with TR3
or TRLR.

An almost always friendly

Ghost














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