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!WOOOT! Looky HERE!

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Anonymous
May 20, 2005 9:09:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

I just found this on Tombraider Chronicles dot com! It's a new
interview with a honcho at CD about Legends!

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tr7/e3_interview.ht...

More about : wooot looky

Anonymous
May 20, 2005 9:09:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to abandon
the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three stories
out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story right in
the middle of something.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 9:49:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar to King
Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort of
"baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the macguffin
necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not necessarily
exactly the same, since there would still be a change, but enough that
we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 3:42:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
> a story right in the middle of something.

I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from Core, it
figures that story stopped dead.

In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider over
from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of the Lara
stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the direction Core
went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have the Lara we know.
Barely. I had seen before and watched today the same "Making Of AoD"
movies. This time, I paid attention to the things Adrian Smith was
saying in it.
I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part of the
game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider. A lot of
folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the Tombraiding.
Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine Ponytail, I
wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no exploration and
Tombing.
In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale. I
might not like all that I have heard about their version of the game,
but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into The
Darkness.
In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific. South
America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to move. I do
not miss Paris or Prague. What was next, Transylvania? We do not know
what Core had in mind. We may never know. I can only surmise the
overall direction by the pervasive darkness of AoD. I feel sadness
playing it. But I will finish it.
McG.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 10:16:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar to King
> Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
> soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort
> of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the
> macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not
> necessarily exactly the same, since there would still be a change,
> but enough that we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite
> Gunfire.

I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from AoD to
Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things were going.
They were taking her literally into a darker existence. Maybe she was
slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
McG.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 1:42:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> > abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
> > three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
> > a story right in the middle of something.
>
> I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from Core, it
> figures that story stopped dead.
>
> In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider over
> from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of the Lara
> stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the direction Core
> went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have the Lara we know.
> Barely. I had seen before and watched today the same "Making Of AoD"
> movies. This time, I paid attention to the things Adrian Smith was
> saying in it.
> I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part of the
> game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider. A lot of
> folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the Tombraiding.
> Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine Ponytail, I
> wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no exploration and
> Tombing.

About the tombing, not so fast. There are all sorts of exploring and
adventuring. Look at LJ's stories. :)  What matters is that they do
it well (the exploring/adventuring) and that it be done with Lara.
I'd venture to guess you don't care much for Aod, not because it's in
Paris, but because it was not done well, (or critical parts of it
weren't done well).

-- G


> In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale. I
> might not like all that I have heard about their version of the game,
> but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into The
> Darkness.
> In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific. South
> America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to move. I do
> not miss Paris or Prague. What was next, Transylvania? We do not know
> what Core had in mind. We may never know. I can only surmise the
> overall direction by the pervasive darkness of AoD. I feel sadness
> playing it. But I will finish it.
> McG.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 1:47:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
>
> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to abandon
> the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three stories
> out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story right in
> the middle of something.

Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
on to another story.)

-- G
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 1:55:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
>
> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> near-death experience.

If you decided on something that makes it all work, that's great.
However, it seems to me no one should have to do that, the story
arc should be more clear. If we have to jump through creative hoops
like that just to make sense of the story, they've blown it.

-- G


> It was taking a road that was similar to King
> Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
> soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort of
> "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the macguffin
> necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not necessarily
> exactly the same, since there would still be a change, but enough that
> we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 2:00:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> > near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar to King
> > Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
> > soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort
> > of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the
> > macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not
> > necessarily exactly the same, since there would still be a change,
> > but enough that we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite
> > Gunfire.
>
> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from AoD to
> Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things were going.
> They were taking her literally into a darker existence. Maybe she was
> slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
> McG.

Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 

-- G
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 2:53:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:428F031E.8522965F@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
>>> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
>>> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
>>> a story right in the middle of something.
>>
>> I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from Core,
>> it figures that story stopped dead.
>>
>> In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider
>> over from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of
>> the Lara stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the
>> direction Core went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have
>> the Lara we know. Barely. I had seen before and watched today the
>> same "Making Of AoD" movies. This time, I paid attention to the
>> things Adrian Smith was saying in it.
>> I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part of
>> the game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider. A
>> lot of folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the
>> Tombraiding. Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine
>> Ponytail, I wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no
>> exploration and Tombing.
>
> About the tombing, not so fast. There are all sorts of exploring and
> adventuring. Look at LJ's stories. :)  What matters is that they do
> it well (the exploring/adventuring) and that it be done with Lara.
> I'd venture to guess you don't care much for Aod, not because it's in
> Paris, but because it was not done well, (or critical parts of it
> weren't done well).
>
> -- G
>
>
>> In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale. I
>> might not like all that I have heard about their version of the game,
>> but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into The
>> Darkness.
>> In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific. South
>> America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to move. I do
>> not miss Paris or Prague. What was next, Transylvania? We do not
>> know what Core had in mind. We may never know. I can only surmise
>> the overall direction by the pervasive darkness of AoD. I feel
>> sadness playing it. But I will finish it.
>> McG.

It's not done well, and hell, it's just not DONE. And it most
definitely goes further and further into an urban mayhem scenario I
really don't like. It was getting to be far too much like a MaxPayne or
Mafia or even Bloodlines sort of game. Those games are FINE, but Lara
Croft: TOMBRAIDER is not about that stuff. Even if CD takes it back to
square one and starts from scratch, it's better in my opinion than the
direction that Smith of Core himself said they were taking it. They
were getting pretty desperate for fresh adventures I think. I took up
for Core at first, but, after watching this one Making Of AoD video a
few dozen times, what Adrian Smith was saying finally started sinking
in. It's not difficult to read between the lines a bit and come up with
some depressing subtext. "Sorry folks, but we couldn't think of a
FRIKKING thing to go explore in the world and give it a Freshness this
now failing franchise needs. So we're going to copycat what we think
are some successful bits on current titles to infuse fresh blood into a
franchise theme that we believe we've quite honestly milked to the last
drop".
Core really seems to have lost its vision and enthusiasm for Tombraider.
I hate admitting that I really think that.
And at first, I was extremely skeptical about CD developing Tombraider
anything. Then about the same time I find the very first screenshots, I
learn Toby Gard was invited to join development of Tombraider at CD.
Well. THAT was a nice warm shiny bright spot on a dreary day. The
Lara Croft character was originally his, though the name Lara Croft may
well not have been his idea, WHAT she is was his idea. His drawings.
His excitment. I have the idea that there is quite a bit of enthusiasm
within the Legend project.
I hear that Galleon is a brilliant game. Too bad it won't make it to
the PC. I won't get to see it.
They could always invite GS to lay some story out for them :)  I bet
he'd love the opportunity! I'd say that Blockhead is a truly ancient
artifact, wouldn''t you?
McG.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 2:56:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
>>
>> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
>> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
>> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
>> a story right in the middle of something.
>
> Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
> the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
> on to another story.)
>
> -- G

Yes, that bit kinda bothered everybody. There is an undeniable
unbridged chasm there. You better scarf up a cheap copy of AoD, it's
going to be fair hard to find soon enough. And as it stands, it's a one
of a kind.
McG.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 2:57:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by
>>> her near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar
>>> to King Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a
>>> piece of her soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was
>>> through a sort of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to
>>> provide the macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be
>>> "reborn"; not necessarily exactly the same, since there would still
>>> be a change, but enough that we could once again recognize Our Lady
>>> of Infinite Gunfire.
>>
>> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from
>> AoD to Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things
>> were going. They were taking her literally into a darker existence.
>> Maybe she was slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
>> McG.
>
> Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
> That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
> wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
>
> -- G

It could also be completely in line with the direction Adrian said they
were going. I'd have missed Lara. snif
McG.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 3:40:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Dragoncarer wrote:
> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
abandon
> > the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three
stories
> > out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story
right in
> > the middle of something.
> >
>
> That was my little gripe. But after finding out where the story for
TRL is
> going to take Lara...I'm starting to not care so much!
>
> If I had a choice between personal Lara story 'going back to her
roots' and
> resuming the AoD story (which was sort of trying to do the same
thing, but
> didn't get a chance to), I'd have to pick the first.

Hell, if they gave me a chance, I could have made the AoD storyline
better and reweaved some of the old TR-style back into the story.

After all, the Czech Republic isn't all urban. There has to be some
mountainous regions somewhere in the area. What if Karel and "The
Sleeper" weren't the only two Nephelim left in existence? If the race
was dying, they'd have to have some way of re-breeding it back into
prominence.

This is where Lara comes in: If she found some clues that led her to
believe that there were more Nephelim, then she'd have to hunt them
down before they became a threat to the human race. You could
conceivably make the trip an adventure unto itself, which would serve
as the second installment.

This, of course, meant that Eckhardt had a backup plan, just in case he
failed. Someone had to get the Obscura Paintings to a secret location
where the remaining Nephelim lived. If a signal was received, then a
person who was in charge of those paintings would begin the process.

Part Three would be a foray into the Nephelim hideout itself...and then
get out of there alive. This would bring her into a situation similar
to Egypt: Seemingly buried alive. From there, she'd have to examine
her life and attempt to discover why it is she does what she does.
>From here, she'll rediscover the spark that made her Lara Croft, the
piece of her soul that was lost.

And then, of course, the long trek to escape from the entombment,
ending with the final defeat of her enemy.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 3:46:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Dragoncarer wrote:
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> > >
> > > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
abandon
> > > the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three
stories
> > > out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story
right in
> > > the middle of something.
> >
> > Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
> > the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
> > on to another story.)
> >
> > -- G
>
> Well that was the initial point of AoD's story, wasn't it?
> So I guess it *is* more important to ask 'Will they resolve the
TR4-TR5
> cliffhanger' than 'Will they ignore story set-up in AoD, or creat
some
> smooth transition'. To tell the truth, I'm far more interested in the
> former, as you say...

Well, since there was the last scene where Von Croy found her backpack
("We have found her!") and then the first scene where he and Lara had a
bit of a tiff, I'd say that first part was taken care of. In any case,
I'd rather have ALL the disconnects resolved.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 10:24:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to abandon
> the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three stories
> out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story right in
> the middle of something.
>

That was my little gripe. But after finding out where the story for TRL is
going to take Lara...I'm starting to not care so much!

If I had a choice between personal Lara story 'going back to her roots' and
resuming the AoD story (which was sort of trying to do the same thing, but
didn't get a chance to), I'd have to pick the first.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 10:29:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UBuje.109487$h6.74732@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> > abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
> > three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
> > a story right in the middle of something.
>
> I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from Core, it
> figures that story stopped dead.
>
> In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider over
> from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of the Lara
> stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the direction Core
> went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have the Lara we know.
> Barely. I had seen before and watched today the same "Making Of AoD"
> movies. This time, I paid attention to the things Adrian Smith was
> saying in it.
> I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part of the
> game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider. A lot of
> folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the Tombraiding.
> Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine Ponytail, I
> wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no exploration and
> Tombing.
> In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale. I
> might not like all that I have heard about their version of the game,
> but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into The
> Darkness.
> In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific. South
> America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to move. I do
> not miss Paris or Prague. What was next, Transylvania? We do not know
> what Core had in mind. We may never know. I can only surmise the
> overall direction by the pervasive darkness of AoD. I feel sadness
> playing it. But I will finish it.
> McG.
>
>

Well said McG, I completely agree.

Perhaps the direction Core was heading was to encourage a wider appeal. I
can certainly imagine that the TR franchise would become much more
simplistic and action-based, as Core/Eidos atttempted to encourage FPS and
action players to buy.
This would involve moving Lara into cityscape environments, where her
enemies are naturally going to be guards and other run-of-the mill humans.
It would also involve a much more linear-based style of gameplay, a reduced
number of moves and reduced manoueverability as TR became less about puzzle
solving and exploring (even if it's only exploring for the sake of
exploring - without any extra hidden goodies - something that I'm personally
fond of) and more about finishing the game in a) the shortest time possible
b) with the highest accuracy and c) with the most number of kills.

And you'll notice that Core seemed to be pushing TR further and further in
the directions I've just described.

So it's starting to seem that it's a good idea Eidos moved the TR franchise
to CD.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 10:29:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
news:428ef16c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:UBuje.109487$h6.74732@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
>>> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
>>> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
>>> a story right in the middle of something.
>>
>> I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from Core,
>> it figures that story stopped dead.
>>
>> In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider
>> over from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of
>> the Lara stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the
>> direction Core went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have
>> the Lara we know. Barely. I had seen before and watched today the
>> same "Making Of AoD" movies. This time, I paid attention to the
>> things Adrian Smith was saying in it.
>> I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part of
>> the game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider. A
>> lot of folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the
>> Tombraiding. Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine
>> Ponytail, I wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no
>> exploration and Tombing.
>> In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale. I
>> might not like all that I have heard about their version of the game,
>> but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into The
>> Darkness.
>> In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific. South
>> America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to move. I do
>> not miss Paris or Prague. What was next, Transylvania? We do not
>> know what Core had in mind. We may never know. I can only surmise
>> the overall direction by the pervasive darkness of AoD. I feel
>> sadness playing it. But I will finish it.
>> McG.
>>
>>
>
> Well said McG, I completely agree.
>
> Perhaps the direction Core was heading was to encourage a wider
> appeal. I can certainly imagine that the TR franchise would become
> much more simplistic and action-based, as Core/Eidos atttempted to
> encourage FPS and action players to buy.
> This would involve moving Lara into cityscape environments, where her
> enemies are naturally going to be guards and other run-of-the mill
> humans. It would also involve a much more linear-based style of
> gameplay, a reduced number of moves and reduced manoueverability as
> TR became less about puzzle solving and exploring (even if it's only
> exploring for the sake of exploring - without any extra hidden
> goodies - something that I'm personally fond of) and more about
> finishing the game in a) the shortest time possible b) with the
> highest accuracy and c) with the most number of kills.
>
> And you'll notice that Core seemed to be pushing TR further and
> further in the directions I've just described.
>
> So it's starting to seem that it's a good idea Eidos moved the TR
> franchise to CD.

The direction that AoD took, and subsequent chapters were to further the
darkness... was "Cores" idea of 'freshening up the franchise'. Over
the edge and gone. He lost it. In more ways than one. Sad really.
However, rather than follow the company, it seems meet to me to look to
Laras actual origin. She is, after all, the brainchild of one single
Toby Gard :)  I think we see his influence all over Legend. I think
this will work.
McG.
McG.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 10:32:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar to King
> Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
> soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort of
> "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the macguffin
> necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not necessarily
> exactly the same, since there would still be a change, but enough that
> we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
>

But I think it could be argued that CD are going to take Lara down a similar
path, but maybe in a different fashion.
Now this is all high-speculation...really so far we only know as much about
TRL as we ever did about AoD!
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 10:34:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gnAje.111006$h6.27021@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> > near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar to King
> > Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
> > soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort
> > of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the
> > macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not
> > necessarily exactly the same, since there would still be a change,
> > but enough that we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite
> > Gunfire.
>
> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from AoD to
> Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things were going.
> They were taking her literally into a darker existence. Maybe she was
> slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
> McG.
>
>

lol @ vampire. Ahhh geez...now that woulda been kinda funny/cute.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:34:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> >
> > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to abandon
> > the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three stories
> > out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story right in
> > the middle of something.
>
> Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
> the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
> on to another story.)
>
> -- G

Well that was the initial point of AoD's story, wasn't it?
So I guess it *is* more important to ask 'Will they resolve the TR4-TR5
cliffhanger' than 'Will they ignore story set-up in AoD, or creat some
smooth transition'. To tell the truth, I'm far more interested in the
former, as you say...
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:40:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:428F0631.C1072E0F@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> >
> > I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> > near-death experience.
>
> If you decided on something that makes it all work, that's great.
> However, it seems to me no one should have to do that, the story
> arc should be more clear. If we have to jump through creative hoops
> like that just to make sense of the story, they've blown it.
>
> -- G
>
>

I'd have to very, very strongly disagree.
My favourite game genre of all time is, without a doubt, survival horror.
Especially the great Japanese ones - Project Zero (you may be more familiar
with it as 'Fatal Frame') and Silent Hill are the two greatest series IMO.
Those games, especially SH, have somewhat hazy storylines. They invite the
gamer to reflect on the game they've just played, to ask some questions of
the story, and to try to work out what was meant where and why.
It makes the experience far more satisfying, as it adds a very different
level to playing games.

Saying that, it might be the something that would only work in survival
horror, as not having the story fed to you with a spoon leaves you feeling
affected and strangely detached, and very spooked out....the story, and
hence the game, will affect the player far more if questions are left
unanswered or even unasked.

Much of the enjoyment I've derived from those games is playing them over and
over, trying to find more clues and more parts to the story that would help
to explain what was going on.

I am, however, a person that loves to be invited to think when I
participate. I can't stand entertainment (movies, TV, games, books whatever)
that doesn't give me any room for creative intepretation.

> > It was taking a road that was similar to King
> > Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
> > soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort of

> > "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the macguffin
> > necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not necessarily
> > exactly the same, since there would still be a change, but enough that
> > we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:41:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> McGrandpa wrote:
> >
> > "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > > I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> > > near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar to King
> > > Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
> > > soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort
> > > of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the
> > > macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not
> > > necessarily exactly the same, since there would still be a change,
> > > but enough that we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite
> > > Gunfire.
> >
> > I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from AoD to
> > Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things were going.
> > They were taking her literally into a darker existence. Maybe she was
> > slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
> > McG.
>
> Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
> That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
> wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
>
> -- G

*groands* not _more_ egyptian gods! lol....sure, that was what the original
TR was all about (or parts of it, anyway), but there are minefields of
mythical mythologies (??) out there...I'd love to see TR exploring some
other great myths and whatnots.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:41:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
news:428f1041@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
>> McGrandpa wrote:
>>>
>>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>>> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by
>>>> her near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar
>>>> to King Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a
>>>> piece of her soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was
>>>> through a sort of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to
>>>> provide the macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be
>>>> "reborn"; not necessarily exactly the same, since there would
>>>> still be a change, but enough that we could once again recognize
>>>> Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
>>>
>>> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from
>>> AoD to Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things
>>> were going. They were taking her literally into a darker existence.
>>> Maybe she was slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
>>> McG.
>>
>> Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
>> That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
>> wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
>>
>> -- G
>
> *groands* not _more_ egyptian gods! lol....sure, that was what the
> original TR was all about (or parts of it, anyway), but there are
> minefields of mythical mythologies (??) out there...I'd love to see
> TR exploring some other great myths and whatnots.

People think they've done Egypt to death, and Rome as well. Hey,
there's Greece, and many other places in Italy than Rome or Venice. But
I'm willing to wait and see where they take us, I'm sure it's going to
be adventure.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:43:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%_Dje.111943$h6.89657@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message

<GODD*** SNIPPING ACTION AGAIN!>

> The direction that AoD took, and subsequent chapters were to further the
> darkness... was "Cores" idea of 'freshening up the franchise'. Over
> the edge and gone. He lost it. In more ways than one. Sad really.
> However, rather than follow the company, it seems meet to me to look to
> Laras actual origin. She is, after all, the brainchild of one single
> Toby Gard :)  I think we see his influence all over Legend. I think
> this will work.
> McG.
> McG.
>
>

Yesssss....noticed how he was described in the GS interview? He was involved
in the original 'character design'...it would be interesting to know how
involved TG has been/ will be in TRL...
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:43:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
news:428f10a8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%_Dje.111943$h6.89657@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
>
> <GODD*** SNIPPING ACTION AGAIN!>
>
>> The direction that AoD took, and subsequent chapters were to further
>> the darkness... was "Cores" idea of 'freshening up the franchise'.
>> Over the edge and gone. He lost it. In more ways than one. Sad
>> really. However, rather than follow the company, it seems meet to me
>> to look to Laras actual origin. She is, after all, the brainchild
>> of one single Toby Gard :)  I think we see his influence all over
>> Legend. I think this will work.
>> McG.
>> McG.
>>
>>
>
> Yesssss....noticed how he was described in the GS interview? He was
> involved in the original 'character design'...it would be interesting
> to know how involved TG has been/ will be in TRL...

We shall learn soon enough I think :) 
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 3:20:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D tEje.112210$h6.89588@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> > Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> >>
> >> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> >> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
> >> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
> >> a story right in the middle of something.
> >
> > Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
> > the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
> > on to another story.)
> >
> > -- G
>
> Yes, that bit kinda bothered everybody. There is an undeniable
> unbridged chasm there. You better scarf up a cheap copy of AoD, it's
> going to be fair hard to find soon enough. And as it stands, it's a one
> of a kind.
> McG.
>
>

'one of a kind'....*silence*

*BURSTS OUT LAUGHING*
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 3:20:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
news:428f3563$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:D tEje.112210$h6.89588@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com
>>> Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
>>>> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
>>>> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate
>>>> abandoning a story right in the middle of something.
>>>
>>> Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
>>> the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
>>> on to another story.)
>>>
>>> -- G
>>
>> Yes, that bit kinda bothered everybody. There is an undeniable
>> unbridged chasm there. You better scarf up a cheap copy of AoD, it's
>> going to be fair hard to find soon enough. And as it stands, it's a
>> one of a kind.
>> McG.
>>
>>
>
> 'one of a kind'....*silence*
>
> *BURSTS OUT LAUGHING*

I thought I put that quite .. er .. gracefully, actually :) 
McG.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:45:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Dragoncarer wrote:
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > McGrandpa wrote:
> > >
> > > "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > > > I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> > > > near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar to King
> > > > Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of her
> > > > soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a sort
> > > > of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the
> > > > macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn"; not
> > > > necessarily exactly the same, since there would still be a change,
> > > > but enough that we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite
> > > > Gunfire.
> > >
> > > I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from AoD to
> > > Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things were going.
> > > They were taking her literally into a darker existence. Maybe she was
> > > slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
> > > McG.
> >
> > Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
> > That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
> > wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
> >
> > -- G
>
> *groands* not _more_ egyptian gods! lol....sure, that was what the original
> TR was all about (or parts of it, anyway), but there are minefields of
> mythical mythologies (??) out there...I'd love to see TR exploring some
> other great myths and whatnots.

I don't have a problem with that, but please could they *finish* one
before moving on to the next? TR 4 was hardly finish--it had sequel
written all over it (the ending). The *supposed* sequels that came
after hardly qualify as such.

So, not *more* Egyptian gods, just finish up with the *same* ones. :) 

-- G
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:48:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
> news:428f1041@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> > "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> >> McGrandpa wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> >>>> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by
> >>>> her near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar
> >>>> to King Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a
> >>>> piece of her soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was
> >>>> through a sort of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to
> >>>> provide the macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be
> >>>> "reborn"; not necessarily exactly the same, since there would
> >>>> still be a change, but enough that we could once again recognize
> >>>> Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
> >>>
> >>> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from
> >>> AoD to Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things
> >>> were going. They were taking her literally into a darker existence.
> >>> Maybe she was slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
> >>> McG.
> >>
> >> Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
> >> That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
> >> wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
> >>
> >> -- G
> >
> > *groands* not _more_ egyptian gods! lol....sure, that was what the
> > original TR was all about (or parts of it, anyway), but there are
> > minefields of mythical mythologies (??) out there...I'd love to see
> > TR exploring some other great myths and whatnots.
>
> People think they've done Egypt to death, and Rome as well. Hey,
> there's Greece, and many other places in Italy than Rome or Venice. But
> I'm willing to wait and see where they take us, I'm sure it's going to
> be adventure.

Greek gods--there's *lots* of potential there! :)  Maybe Zeus will
take an "interest" in our lovely Lara. ;) 

-- G
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 12:50:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> > McGrandpa wrote:
> >>
> >> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> >>> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by
> >>> her near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar
> >>> to King Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a
> >>> piece of her soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was
> >>> through a sort of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to
> >>> provide the macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be
> >>> "reborn"; not necessarily exactly the same, since there would still
> >>> be a change, but enough that we could once again recognize Our Lady
> >>> of Infinite Gunfire.
> >>
> >> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from
> >> AoD to Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things
> >> were going. They were taking her literally into a darker existence.
> >> Maybe she was slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
> >> McG.
> >
> > Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
> > That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
> > wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
> >
> > -- G
>
> It could also be completely in line with the direction Adrian said they
> were going. I'd have missed Lara. snif
> McG.

Which direction was that?

-- G
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 1:16:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Dragoncarer wrote:
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:428F0631.C1072E0F@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> > >
> > > I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by her
> > > near-death experience.
> >
> > If you decided on something that makes it all work, that's great.
> > However, it seems to me no one should have to do that, the story
> > arc should be more clear. If we have to jump through creative hoops
> > like that just to make sense of the story, they've blown it.
> >
> > -- G
> >
> >
>
> I'd have to very, very strongly disagree.

Oh?

> My favourite game genre of all time is, without a doubt, survival horror.
> Especially the great Japanese ones - Project Zero (you may be more familiar
> with it as 'Fatal Frame') and Silent Hill are the two greatest series IMO.
> Those games, especially SH, have somewhat hazy storylines. They invite the
> gamer to reflect on the game they've just played, to ask some questions of
> the story, and to try to work out what was meant where and why.
> It makes the experience far more satisfying, as it adds a very different
> level to playing games.

Well, it sounds like that's part of the point in those games. They
were designed that way. (I'm not familiar with them myself.) If
that's the case, then I think you're comparing apples to oranges.
TR--especially TR 4--had a definite story arc, complete with a
conventional old fashioned cliff hanger. The games you're describing
don't sound anything like that.

> Saying that, it might be the something that would only work in survival
> horror, as not having the story fed to you with a spoon leaves you feeling
> affected and strangely detached, and very spooked out....the story, and
> hence the game, will affect the player far more if questions are left
> unanswered or even unasked.
>
> Much of the enjoyment I've derived from those games is playing them over and
> over, trying to find more clues and more parts to the story that would help
> to explain what was going on.
>
> I am, however, a person that loves to be invited to think when I
> participate. I can't stand entertainment (movies, TV, games, books whatever)
> that doesn't give me any room for creative intepretation.

Being invited to think is one thing, having to fill in the story
yourself is quite another. Now, I'm not talking about finding
clues, which you mentioned. There are plenty of good stories
where the reader collects clues.

It seems to me leaving room for creative interpretation is just a
fancy way of saying the author lacks imagination and perhaps
couldn't even finsih it properly. Books, movies, etc are simply
modern versions of the old, *very* old, custom and tradition of
telling stories around the camp fire. If you like to make up
stories yourself, that's fine, but that's not the listener's job
when someone else is providing the story.

-- G
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 1:24:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Dragoncarer wrote:
>
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:UBuje.109487$h6.74732@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> > > abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
> > > three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
> > > a story right in the middle of something.
> >
> > I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from Core, it
> > figures that story stopped dead.
> >
> > In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider over
> > from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of the Lara
> > stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the direction Core
> > went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have the Lara we know.
> > Barely. I had seen before and watched today the same "Making Of AoD"
> > movies. This time, I paid attention to the things Adrian Smith was
> > saying in it.
> > I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part of the
> > game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider. A lot of
> > folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the Tombraiding.
> > Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine Ponytail, I
> > wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no exploration and
> > Tombing.
> > In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale. I
> > might not like all that I have heard about their version of the game,
> > but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into The
> > Darkness.
> > In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific. South
> > America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to move. I do
> > not miss Paris or Prague. What was next, Transylvania? We do not know
> > what Core had in mind. We may never know. I can only surmise the
> > overall direction by the pervasive darkness of AoD. I feel sadness
> > playing it. But I will finish it.
> > McG.
> >
> >
>
> Well said McG, I completely agree.
>
> Perhaps the direction Core was heading was to encourage a wider appeal. I
> can certainly imagine that the TR franchise would become much more
> simplistic and action-based, as Core/Eidos atttempted to encourage FPS and
> action players to buy.

There's a big risk in doing that. You can't have a game (or anything
for that matter) be all things to all people. Moving in that direction
just dilutes it.

> This would involve moving Lara into cityscape environments, where her
> enemies are naturally going to be guards and other run-of-the mill humans.
> It would also involve a much more linear-based style of gameplay, a reduced
> number of moves and reduced manoueverability as TR became less about puzzle
> solving and exploring (even if it's only exploring for the sake of
> exploring - without any extra hidden goodies - something that I'm personally
> fond of) and more about finishing the game in a) the shortest time possible
> b) with the highest accuracy and c) with the most number of kills.
>
> And you'll notice that Core seemed to be pushing TR further and further in
> the directions I've just described.

But how much of that was Core's doing, and how much was Eidos?

-- G

> So it's starting to seem that it's a good idea Eidos moved the TR franchise
> to CD.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 1:33:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
> news:428f10a8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> > "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:%_Dje.111943$h6.89657@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> >> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
> >
> > <GODD*** SNIPPING ACTION AGAIN!>
> >
> >> The direction that AoD took, and subsequent chapters were to further
> >> the darkness... was "Cores" idea of 'freshening up the franchise'.
> >> Over the edge and gone. He lost it. In more ways than one. Sad
> >> really. However, rather than follow the company, it seems meet to me
> >> to look to Laras actual origin. She is, after all, the brainchild
> >> of one single Toby Gard :)  I think we see his influence all over
> >> Legend. I think this will work.
> >> McG.
> >> McG.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Yesssss....noticed how he was described in the GS interview? He was
> > involved in the original 'character design'...it would be interesting
> > to know how involved TG has been/ will be in TRL...
>
> We shall learn soon enough I think :) 

I remember reading somewhere that most of TRL was already decided
upon and Toby was brought in relatively late in the game, mostly
to work on character development (graphics). It seemed that Toby's
influence was relatively limited. Either way, how would we know
what was Toby's doing and what wasn't?

-- G
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 1:41:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:428F031E.8522965F@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> > McGrandpa wrote:
> >>
> >> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> >>> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> >>> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
> >>> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
> >>> a story right in the middle of something.
> >>
> >> I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from Core,
> >> it figures that story stopped dead.
> >>
> >> In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider
> >> over from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of
> >> the Lara stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the
> >> direction Core went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have
> >> the Lara we know. Barely. I had seen before and watched today the
> >> same "Making Of AoD" movies. This time, I paid attention to the
> >> things Adrian Smith was saying in it.
> >> I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part of
> >> the game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider. A
> >> lot of folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the
> >> Tombraiding. Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine
> >> Ponytail, I wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no
> >> exploration and Tombing.
> >
> > About the tombing, not so fast. There are all sorts of exploring and
> > adventuring. Look at LJ's stories. :)  What matters is that they do
> > it well (the exploring/adventuring) and that it be done with Lara.
> > I'd venture to guess you don't care much for Aod, not because it's in
> > Paris, but because it was not done well, (or critical parts of it
> > weren't done well).
> >
> > -- G
> >
> >
> >> In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale. I
> >> might not like all that I have heard about their version of the game,
> >> but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into The
> >> Darkness.
> >> In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific. South
> >> America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to move. I do
> >> not miss Paris or Prague. What was next, Transylvania? We do not
> >> know what Core had in mind. We may never know. I can only surmise
> >> the overall direction by the pervasive darkness of AoD. I feel
> >> sadness playing it. But I will finish it.
> >> McG.
>
> It's not done well, and hell, it's just not DONE. And it most
> definitely goes further and further into an urban mayhem scenario I
> really don't like. It was getting to be far too much like a MaxPayne or
> Mafia or even Bloodlines sort of game. Those games are FINE, but Lara
> Croft: TOMBRAIDER is not about that stuff. Even if CD takes it back to
> square one and starts from scratch, it's better in my opinion than the
> direction that Smith of Core himself said they were taking it. They
> were getting pretty desperate for fresh adventures I think. I took up
> for Core at first, but, after watching this one Making Of AoD video a
> few dozen times, what Adrian Smith was saying finally started sinking
> in. It's not difficult to read between the lines a bit and come up with
> some depressing subtext. "Sorry folks, but we couldn't think of a
> FRIKKING thing to go explore in the world and give it a Freshness this
> now failing franchise needs. So we're going to copycat what we think
> are some successful bits on current titles to infuse fresh blood into a
> franchise theme that we believe we've quite honestly milked to the last
> drop".


<sigh> And here we are, with the likes of LJ. :/ 


> Core really seems to have lost its vision and enthusiasm for Tombraider.
> I hate admitting that I really think that.
> And at first, I was extremely skeptical about CD developing Tombraider
> anything. Then about the same time I find the very first screenshots, I
> learn Toby Gard was invited to join development of Tombraider at CD.
> Well. THAT was a nice warm shiny bright spot on a dreary day. The
> Lara Croft character was originally his, though the name Lara Croft may
> well not have been his idea, WHAT she is was his idea. His drawings.
> His excitment. I have the idea that there is quite a bit of enthusiasm
> within the Legend project.
> I hear that Galleon is a brilliant game. Too bad it won't make it to
> the PC. I won't get to see it.
> They could always invite GS to lay some story out for them :)  I bet
> he'd love the opportunity! I'd say that Blockhead is a truly ancient
> artifact, wouldn''t you?

I should have read ahead more before making that comment above. ;) 
Well, at least we're thinking the same thing! :) 

-- G
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 1:49:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
>
> Dragoncarer wrote:
> > "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > > Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> abandon
> > > > the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three
> stories
> > > > out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story
> right in
> > > > the middle of something.
> > >
> > > Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
> > > the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
> > > on to another story.)
> > >
> > > -- G
> >
> > Well that was the initial point of AoD's story, wasn't it?
> > So I guess it *is* more important to ask 'Will they resolve the
> TR4-TR5
> > cliffhanger' than 'Will they ignore story set-up in AoD, or creat
> some
> > smooth transition'. To tell the truth, I'm far more interested in the
> > former, as you say...
>
> Well, since there was the last scene where Von Croy found her backpack
> ("We have found her!") and then the first scene where he and Lara had a
> bit of a tiff, I'd say that first part was taken care of. In any case,
> I'd rather have ALL the disconnects resolved.

I'm having a hard time understanding how they can be starved for ideas
(as McG mentioned) while at the same time can't even manage to clear up
the existing dangling threads. Unless *that's* the problem... they
can't even figure out how to resolve the loose threads. :/ 

-- G
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 3:46:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:429047FB.BF56C55A@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
>> news:428f1041@dnews.tpgi.com.au
>>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>> news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
>>>> McGrandpa wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>>>>> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about
>>>>>> by her near-death experience. It was taking a road that was
>>>>>> similar to King Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to
>>>>>> search for a piece of her soul, and the only way she was going
>>>>>> to regain it was through a sort of "baptism by fire", and the
>>>>>> Nephelim was going to provide the macguffin necessary for her
>>>>>> orginal personality to be "reborn"; not necessarily exactly the
>>>>>> same, since there would still be a change, but enough that we
>>>>>> could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from
>>>>> AoD to Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things
>>>>> were going. They were taking her literally into a darker
>>>>> existence. Maybe she was slated to become a vampire? Who knows?
>>>>> :) 
>>>>> McG.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
>>>> That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
>>>> wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
>>>>
>>>> -- G
>>>
>>> *groands* not _more_ egyptian gods! lol....sure, that was what the
>>> original TR was all about (or parts of it, anyway), but there are
>>> minefields of mythical mythologies (??) out there...I'd love to see
>>> TR exploring some other great myths and whatnots.
>>
>> People think they've done Egypt to death, and Rome as well. Hey,
>> there's Greece, and many other places in Italy than Rome or Venice.
>> But I'm willing to wait and see where they take us, I'm sure it's
>> going to be adventure.
>
> Greek gods--there's *lots* of potential there! :)  Maybe Zeus will
> take an "interest" in our lovely Lara. ;) 
>
> -- G

Ah, and Lara hasnt' yet been to Troy or really anyplace on the Med,
Aegean or Black seas eh? LOTS of places in the world steeped richly in
mythos, history and legend :)  I'd say she could spend an entire game
exploring the isle of Britain alone! We got to see a tiny bit of
Scotland in Lost Artifact. And some terrific countryside to boot.
McG.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 3:48:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:42904845.FBD68A7E@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com
>>> McGrandpa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>>>> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by
>>>>> her near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar
>>>>> to King Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a
>>>>> piece of her soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was
>>>>> through a sort of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to
>>>>> provide the macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be
>>>>> "reborn"; not necessarily exactly the same, since there would
>>>>> still be a change, but enough that we could once again recognize
>>>>> Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
>>>>
>>>> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from
>>>> AoD to Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things
>>>> were going. They were taking her literally into a darker existence.
>>>> Maybe she was slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
>>>> McG.
>>>
>>> Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
>>> That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
>>> wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
>>>
>>> -- G
>>
>> It could also be completely in line with the direction Adrian said
>> they were going. I'd have missed Lara. snif
>> McG.
>
> Which direction was that?
>
> -- G

To The Dark Side. No Tombraiding at all. A city sewer rat. A
completely different world more in tune actually to Buffy the Vampire
Slayer or Dark Angel. :( 
But, no more tombing.
McG.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 4:06:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4290524D.5DDABF2E@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
>> news:428f10a8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au
>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%_Dje.111943$h6.89657@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
>>>
>>> <GODD*** SNIPPING ACTION AGAIN!>
>>>
>>>> The direction that AoD took, and subsequent chapters were to
>>>> further the darkness... was "Cores" idea of 'freshening up the
>>>> franchise'. Over the edge and gone. He lost it. In more ways
>>>> than one. Sad really. However, rather than follow the company,
>>>> it seems meet to me to look to Laras actual origin. She is, after
>>>> all, the brainchild of one single Toby Gard :)  I think we see his
>>>> influence all over Legend. I think this will work.
>>>> McG.
>>>> McG.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yesssss....noticed how he was described in the GS interview? He was
>>> involved in the original 'character design'...it would be
>>> interesting to know how involved TG has been/ will be in TRL...
>>
>> We shall learn soon enough I think :) 
>
> I remember reading somewhere that most of TRL was already decided
> upon and Toby was brought in relatively late in the game, mostly
> to work on character development (graphics). It seemed that Toby's
> influence was relatively limited. Either way, how would we know
> what was Toby's doing and what wasn't?
>
> -- G

You're right there. Toby was brought onboard after dev began, clearly.
It's bee said by Riley that TOBY has control of Lara the character.
And, that they haven't set out to change Lara per se, but bring her up
to date. What the model does, how it interacts with the world, how it
responds to controls as well as how good it looks. :) 
It looks as if there is a sort of "attract mode" like Morrowind has. If
you let the game stand idle for a little bit, the camera view shifts out
to 3rd person and orbits the player character (in other games you have
choices of character and accoutrements!) and keeps that up till you move
the mouse or press a key. An in-game screensaver mode if you like.
Lara in TRL also has idle anims like lots of newer games have. ALICE
has completely different GROUPS of idle anims dependant on what item you
have her equipped with. They did a fantastic job with ALICE, and if
you haven't played it, I'll suggest it to you! The gameplay is good,
smooth. The graphics and sound are excellent but the music score is
incredible. HAVE you ever played American McGee's ALICE Gary? If not,
you have missed an excellent game that is truly a classic! It's a basic
DX7 type game based on a very modded Quake3 engine...which works
extremely well. And the story, well that puts the game on rails, but oh
what fun rails they are :)  It is single player ONLY, and its replay
value is limited. Once you've finished Alice, you're done. I replay
sections of it over and over. It's got some great story to it.
McG.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 4:48:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4290542E.654C4834@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:428F031E.8522965F@ix.nospam.netcom.com
>>> McGrandpa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>>>> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
>>>>> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
>>>>> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate
>>>>> abandoning a story right in the middle of something.
>>>>
>>>> I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from
>>>> Core, it figures that story stopped dead.
>>>>
>>>> In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider
>>>> over from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of
>>>> the Lara stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the
>>>> direction Core went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have
>>>> the Lara we know. Barely. I had seen before and watched today the
>>>> same "Making Of AoD" movies. This time, I paid attention to the
>>>> things Adrian Smith was saying in it.
>>>> I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part
>>>> of the game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider.
>>>> A lot of folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the
>>>> Tombraiding. Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine
>>>> Ponytail, I wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no
>>>> exploration and Tombing.
>>>
>>> About the tombing, not so fast. There are all sorts of exploring
>>> and adventuring. Look at LJ's stories. :)  What matters is that
>>> they do it well (the exploring/adventuring) and that it be done
>>> with Lara. I'd venture to guess you don't care much for Aod, not
>>> because it's in Paris, but because it was not done well, (or
>>> critical parts of it weren't done well).
>>>
>>> -- G
>>>
>>>
>>>> In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale.
>>>> I might not like all that I have heard about their version of the
>>>> game, but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into
>>>> The Darkness.
>>>> In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific.
>>>> South America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to
>>>> move. I do not miss Paris or Prague. What was next,
>>>> Transylvania? We do not know what Core had in mind. We may never
>>>> know. I can only surmise the overall direction by the pervasive
>>>> darkness of AoD. I feel sadness playing it. But I will finish it.
>>>> McG.
>>
>> It's not done well, and hell, it's just not DONE. And it most
>> definitely goes further and further into an urban mayhem scenario I
>> really don't like. It was getting to be far too much like a
>> MaxPayne or Mafia or even Bloodlines sort of game. Those games are
>> FINE, but Lara Croft: TOMBRAIDER is not about that stuff. Even if
>> CD takes it back to square one and starts from scratch, it's better
>> in my opinion than the direction that Smith of Core himself said
>> they were taking it. They were getting pretty desperate for fresh
>> adventures I think. I took up for Core at first, but, after
>> watching this one Making Of AoD video a few dozen times, what Adrian
>> Smith was saying finally started sinking in. It's not difficult to
>> read between the lines a bit and come up with some depressing
>> subtext. "Sorry folks, but we couldn't think of a FRIKKING thing to
>> go explore in the world and give it a Freshness this now failing
>> franchise needs. So we're going to copycat what we think are some
>> successful bits on current titles to infuse fresh blood into a
>> franchise theme that we believe we've quite honestly milked to the
>> last drop".
>
>
> <sigh> And here we are, with the likes of LJ. :/ 
>
>
>> Core really seems to have lost its vision and enthusiasm for
>> Tombraider. I hate admitting that I really think that.
>> And at first, I was extremely skeptical about CD developing
>> Tombraider anything. Then about the same time I find the very first
>> screenshots, I learn Toby Gard was invited to join development of
>> Tombraider at CD. Well. THAT was a nice warm shiny bright spot on a
>> dreary day. The Lara Croft character was originally his, though
>> the name Lara Croft may well not have been his idea, WHAT she is was
>> his idea. His drawings. His excitment. I have the idea that there
>> is quite a bit of enthusiasm within the Legend project.
>> I hear that Galleon is a brilliant game. Too bad it won't make it to
>> the PC. I won't get to see it.
>> They could always invite GS to lay some story out for them :)  I bet
>> he'd love the opportunity! I'd say that Blockhead is a truly
>> ancient artifact, wouldn''t you?
>
> I should have read ahead more before making that comment above. ;) 
> Well, at least we're thinking the same thing! :) 
>
> -- G

GS's stories do a great job of putting our Goddess Lady into many
different settings while maintaining the ingame Lara
character/personality. I've mentioned before (likely a number of times)
this is impressive. That's some real storytelling there! I'm without
a doubt, a huge fan of GS, and will always look forward to anything he
chooses to put before us :)  He earned that and is worth every
compliment I can pay to a writer. Given, part of my enthusiasm for his
writing in general is that for all but one short piece, Lara is the
character he writes stories for. He helps to fill in our Laras
gamespace imaginary world with even more imagery and world, broadening
Laras existence for us all. :o )) I hope that *NOTHING* detrimental is
taken from this at all. GS is a gift among us :) 
CORE/EIDOS are total establishment snobs. SCi/Crystal Dynamics might
be, but I know nothing about them yet so can't comment. Both are well
established presences in the industry. We shall see what we shall see
;) 
McG.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 4:49:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4290562C.34F0B88A@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
>>
>> Dragoncarer wrote:
>>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>> news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
>>>> Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
>>>>> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
>>>>> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate
>>>>> abandoning a story right in the middle of something.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
>>>> the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
>>>> on to another story.)
>>>>
>>>> -- G
>>>
>>> Well that was the initial point of AoD's story, wasn't it?
>>> So I guess it *is* more important to ask 'Will they resolve the
>>> TR4-TR5 cliffhanger' than 'Will they ignore story set-up in AoD, or
>>> creat some smooth transition'. To tell the truth, I'm far more
>>> interested in the former, as you say...
>>
>> Well, since there was the last scene where Von Croy found her
>> backpack ("We have found her!") and then the first scene where he
>> and Lara had a bit of a tiff, I'd say that first part was taken care
>> of. In any case, I'd rather have ALL the disconnects resolved.
>
> I'm having a hard time understanding how they can be starved for ideas
> (as McG mentioned) while at the same time can't even manage to clear
> up the existing dangling threads. Unless *that's* the problem... they
> can't even figure out how to resolve the loose threads. :/ 
>
> -- G

They could have had a number of viable solutions for FREE! If they'd
just read a.g.t. !!!
McG.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:38:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Dragoncarer wrote:
> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1116700815.651862.24090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Dragoncarer wrote:
> > > "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> > abandon
> > > > the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three
> > stories
> > > > out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story
> > right in
> > > > the middle of something.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That was my little gripe. But after finding out where the story
for
> > TRL is
> > > going to take Lara...I'm starting to not care so much!
> > >
> > > If I had a choice between personal Lara story 'going back to her
> > roots' and
> > > resuming the AoD story (which was sort of trying to do the same
> > thing, but
> > > didn't get a chance to), I'd have to pick the first.
> >
> > Hell, if they gave me a chance, I could have made the AoD storyline
> > better and reweaved some of the old TR-style back into the story.
> >
> > After all, the Czech Republic isn't all urban. There has to be
some
> > mountainous regions somewhere in the area. What if Karel and "The
> > Sleeper" weren't the only two Nephelim left in existence? If the
race
> > was dying, they'd have to have some way of re-breeding it back into
> > prominence.
> >
> > This is where Lara comes in: If she found some clues that led her
to
> > believe that there were more Nephelim, then she'd have to hunt them
> > down before they became a threat to the human race. You could
> > conceivably make the trip an adventure unto itself, which would
serve
> > as the second installment.
> >
> > This, of course, meant that Eckhardt had a backup plan, just in
case he
> > failed. Someone had to get the Obscura Paintings to a secret
location
> > where the remaining Nephelim lived. If a signal was received, then
a
> > person who was in charge of those paintings would begin the
process.
> >
> > Part Three would be a foray into the Nephelim hideout itself...and
then
> > get out of there alive. This would bring her into a situation
similar
> > to Egypt: Seemingly buried alive. From there, she'd have to
examine
> > her life and attempt to discover why it is she does what she does.
> > >From here, she'll rediscover the spark that made her Lara Croft,
the
> > piece of her soul that was lost.
> >
> > And then, of course, the long trek to escape from the entombment,
> > ending with the final defeat of her enemy.
> >
>
> Methinks you should open up Word and start typing...this sounds like
a ripe
> opportunity to write some great fanfic...a chance to close the AoD
story and
> when TRL is released and we know the opening story, a chance to seed
AoD
> into TRL....just think of the fame Paul! Think of it!
>
> No but seriously, I think you should!

Much as I would like to, I don't have enough talent and patience to
work it out. Essay writing I can do. I have enough patience for that.
The novel stuff I'd rather leave to people like Gordion.

Ya hear that, GS!? Can ya take what I said and turn that into a story?
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:42:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

Dragoncarer wrote:
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:4290562C.34F0B88A@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> > >
> > > Dragoncarer wrote:
> > > > "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > > > > Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's
decided to
> > > abandon
> > > > > > the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
three
> > > stories
> > > > > > out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a
story
> > > right in
> > > > > > the middle of something.
> > > > >
> > > > > Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much
abandon
> > > > > the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and
moved
> > > > > on to another story.)
> > > > >
> > > > > -- G
> > > >
> > > > Well that was the initial point of AoD's story, wasn't it?
> > > > So I guess it *is* more important to ask 'Will they resolve the
> > > TR4-TR5
> > > > cliffhanger' than 'Will they ignore story set-up in AoD, or
creat
> > > some
> > > > smooth transition'. To tell the truth, I'm far more interested
in the
> > > > former, as you say...
> > >
> > > Well, since there was the last scene where Von Croy found her
backpack
> > > ("We have found her!") and then the first scene where he and Lara
had a
> > > bit of a tiff, I'd say that first part was taken care of. In any
case,
> > > I'd rather have ALL the disconnects resolved.
> >
> > I'm having a hard time understanding how they can be starved for
ideas
> > (as McG mentioned) while at the same time can't even manage to
clear up
> > the existing dangling threads. Unless *that's* the problem... they
> > can't even figure out how to resolve the loose threads. :/ 
> >
>
> *I* don't think they're starved for ideas. But for some reason it
appears
> that the developers (Core and CD) believe that the best way forward
is to
> just start fresh.
> That means ignoring previous games - and therefore ignoring
unresolved
> issues. In a way, I get the impression (I don't really know why) that
CD
> view AoD as a complete bungle, as the problems of Core, problems they
> shouldn't even touch, for fear of implication by association.

Oh, great. Another "Dallas" dream interpretation. Just what I didn't
need. :-P
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:04:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
news:428f10a8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%_Dje.111943$h6.89657@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
>
> <GODD*** SNIPPING ACTION AGAIN!>
>
>> The direction that AoD took, and subsequent chapters were to further
>> the darkness... was "Cores" idea of 'freshening up the franchise'.
>> Over the edge and gone. He lost it. In more ways than one. Sad
>> really. However, rather than follow the company, it seems meet to me
>> to look to Laras actual origin. She is, after all, the brainchild
>> of one single Toby Gard :)  I think we see his influence all over
>> Legend. I think this will work.
>> McG.
>> McG.
>>
>>
>
> Yesssss....noticed how he was described in the GS interview? He was
> involved in the original 'character design'...it would be interesting
> to know how involved TG has been/ will be in TRL...

Play! Magazine got an interview with Toby. I dont get the mag so don't
know what he said :o \
McG.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:53:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZPHje.104558$hu5.44086@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
> news:428f3563$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> > "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:D tEje.112210$h6.89588@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> >> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> >>> Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> >>>> abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
> >>>> three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate
> >>>> abandoning a story right in the middle of something.
> >>>
> >>> Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
> >>> the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
> >>> on to another story.)
> >>>
> >>> -- G
> >>
> >> Yes, that bit kinda bothered everybody. There is an undeniable
> >> unbridged chasm there. You better scarf up a cheap copy of AoD, it's
> >> going to be fair hard to find soon enough. And as it stands, it's a
> >> one of a kind.
> >> McG.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 'one of a kind'....*silence*
> >
> > *BURSTS OUT LAUGHING*
>
> I thought I put that quite .. er .. gracefully, actually :) 
> McG.
>
>

graceful, and appropriate.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:57:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1116700815.651862.24090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dragoncarer wrote:
> > "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> abandon
> > > the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three
> stories
> > > out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story
> right in
> > > the middle of something.
> > >
> >
> > That was my little gripe. But after finding out where the story for
> TRL is
> > going to take Lara...I'm starting to not care so much!
> >
> > If I had a choice between personal Lara story 'going back to her
> roots' and
> > resuming the AoD story (which was sort of trying to do the same
> thing, but
> > didn't get a chance to), I'd have to pick the first.
>
> Hell, if they gave me a chance, I could have made the AoD storyline
> better and reweaved some of the old TR-style back into the story.
>
> After all, the Czech Republic isn't all urban. There has to be some
> mountainous regions somewhere in the area. What if Karel and "The
> Sleeper" weren't the only two Nephelim left in existence? If the race
> was dying, they'd have to have some way of re-breeding it back into
> prominence.
>
> This is where Lara comes in: If she found some clues that led her to
> believe that there were more Nephelim, then she'd have to hunt them
> down before they became a threat to the human race. You could
> conceivably make the trip an adventure unto itself, which would serve
> as the second installment.
>
> This, of course, meant that Eckhardt had a backup plan, just in case he
> failed. Someone had to get the Obscura Paintings to a secret location
> where the remaining Nephelim lived. If a signal was received, then a
> person who was in charge of those paintings would begin the process.
>
> Part Three would be a foray into the Nephelim hideout itself...and then
> get out of there alive. This would bring her into a situation similar
> to Egypt: Seemingly buried alive. From there, she'd have to examine
> her life and attempt to discover why it is she does what she does.
> >From here, she'll rediscover the spark that made her Lara Croft, the
> piece of her soul that was lost.
>
> And then, of course, the long trek to escape from the entombment,
> ending with the final defeat of her enemy.
>

Methinks you should open up Word and start typing...this sounds like a ripe
opportunity to write some great fanfic...a chance to close the AoD story and
when TRL is released and we know the opening story, a chance to seed AoD
into TRL....just think of the fame Paul! Think of it!

No but seriously, I think you should!
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:33:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:42904727.C5540041@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Dragoncarer wrote:
> >
> > "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > > McGrandpa wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > > > > I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about by
her
> > > > > near-death experience. It was taking a road that was similar to
King
> > > > > Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to search for a piece of
her
> > > > > soul, and the only way she was going to regain it was through a
sort
> > > > > of "baptism by fire", and the Nephelim was going to provide the
> > > > > macguffin necessary for her orginal personality to be "reborn";
not
> > > > > necessarily exactly the same, since there would still be a change,
> > > > > but enough that we could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite
> > > > > Gunfire.
> > > >
> > > > I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from
AoD to
> > > > Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things were
going.
> > > > They were taking her literally into a darker existence. Maybe she
was
> > > > slated to become a vampire? Who knows? :) 
> > > > McG.
> > >
> > > Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
> > > That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
> > > wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
> > >
> > > -- G
> >
> > *groands* not _more_ egyptian gods! lol....sure, that was what the
original
> > TR was all about (or parts of it, anyway), but there are minefields of
> > mythical mythologies (??) out there...I'd love to see TR exploring some
> > other great myths and whatnots.
>
> I don't have a problem with that, but please could they *finish* one
> before moving on to the next? TR 4 was hardly finish--it had sequel
> written all over it (the ending). The *supposed* sequels that came
> after hardly qualify as such.
>
> So, not *more* Egyptian gods, just finish up with the *same* ones. :) 

Yes. Yes. Yes.

>
> -- G
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:37:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:42905053.88998896@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Dragoncarer wrote:
> >
> > "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:UBuje.109487$h6.74732@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > > "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1116624700.544382.272340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > > > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> > > > abandon the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be
> > > > three stories out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning
> > > > a story right in the middle of something.
> > >
> > > I commiserate with you. When Eidos took Tombraider away from Core,
it
> > > figures that story stopped dead.
> > >
> > > In a sense, what I've seen would be very like starting Tombraider over
> > > from the very beginning of TR1. While I have grown fond of the Lara
> > > stories and her origins, I can't say that I liked the direction Core
> > > went for AoD and beyond. With AoD we did still have the Lara we know.
> > > Barely. I had seen before and watched today the same "Making Of AoD"
> > > movies. This time, I paid attention to the things Adrian Smith was
> > > saying in it.
> > > I sounds to me we were about to lose completely the function part of
the
> > > game titles. We'd still have Lara Croft. Not Tombraider. A lot of
> > > folks would enjoy the "Next Gen" crop of games without the
Tombraiding.
> > > Though I'd become fond of the Mistress of The Divine Ponytail, I
> > > wouldn't have bought the next if there would be no exploration and
> > > Tombing.
> > > In this matter, Crystal Dynamics has ensured for itself one sale. I
> > > might not like all that I have heard about their version of the game,
> > > but I think I'll like it far more than any furtherance into The
> > > Darkness.
> > > In playing AoD, I missed Egypt. Rome. India. South Pacific. South
> > > America. I missed jungle, ocean, desert, sky, freedom to move. I do
> > > not miss Paris or Prague. What was next, Transylvania? We do not
know
> > > what Core had in mind. We may never know. I can only surmise the
> > > overall direction by the pervasive darkness of AoD. I feel sadness
> > > playing it. But I will finish it.
> > > McG.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well said McG, I completely agree.
> >
> > Perhaps the direction Core was heading was to encourage a wider appeal.
I
> > can certainly imagine that the TR franchise would become much more
> > simplistic and action-based, as Core/Eidos atttempted to encourage FPS
and
> > action players to buy.
>
> There's a big risk in doing that. You can't have a game (or anything
> for that matter) be all things to all people. Moving in that direction
> just dilutes it.

That's right. The risk failed with AoD. The movement in that game compared
to previous TRs was...well, *that* was oranges to apples!

And consider the new movement in the shots we've had of TRL. I'm afraid that
Lara is too manoueverable...the way she flipped around in that underground
passage...almost too unreal for me.

>
> > This would involve moving Lara into cityscape environments, where her
> > enemies are naturally going to be guards and other run-of-the mill
humans.
> > It would also involve a much more linear-based style of gameplay, a
reduced
> > number of moves and reduced manoueverability as TR became less about
puzzle
> > solving and exploring (even if it's only exploring for the sake of
> > exploring - without any extra hidden goodies - something that I'm
personally
> > fond of) and more about finishing the game in a) the shortest time
possible
> > b) with the highest accuracy and c) with the most number of kills.
> >
> > And you'll notice that Core seemed to be pushing TR further and further
in
> > the directions I've just described.
>
> But how much of that was Core's doing, and how much was Eidos?

I don't know. I have no idea.
At a guess, I imagine it was little from column A, a little from column B.
Eidos want wider market share, they encourage Core to include 'more
accessible' features...

>
> -- G
>
> > So it's starting to seem that it's a good idea Eidos moved the TR
franchise
> > to CD.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:41:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4290562C.34F0B88A@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> >
> > Dragoncarer wrote:
> > > "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:428F041F.C09A2AD5@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > > > Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Someone find this guy's address and ask him why he's decided to
> > abandon
> > > > > the AoD story arc? I know that there were supposed to be three
> > stories
> > > > > out of that one, and, quite frankly, I hate abandoning a story
> > right in
> > > > > the middle of something.
> > > >
> > > > Agreed, but this isn't new. Didn't they also pretty much abandon
> > > > the cliff hanger from TR 4? (Or at least glossed over it and moved
> > > > on to another story.)
> > > >
> > > > -- G
> > >
> > > Well that was the initial point of AoD's story, wasn't it?
> > > So I guess it *is* more important to ask 'Will they resolve the
> > TR4-TR5
> > > cliffhanger' than 'Will they ignore story set-up in AoD, or creat
> > some
> > > smooth transition'. To tell the truth, I'm far more interested in the
> > > former, as you say...
> >
> > Well, since there was the last scene where Von Croy found her backpack
> > ("We have found her!") and then the first scene where he and Lara had a
> > bit of a tiff, I'd say that first part was taken care of. In any case,
> > I'd rather have ALL the disconnects resolved.
>
> I'm having a hard time understanding how they can be starved for ideas
> (as McG mentioned) while at the same time can't even manage to clear up
> the existing dangling threads. Unless *that's* the problem... they
> can't even figure out how to resolve the loose threads. :/ 
>

*I* don't think they're starved for ideas. But for some reason it appears
that the developers (Core and CD) believe that the best way forward is to
just start fresh.
That means ignoring previous games - and therefore ignoring unresolved
issues. In a way, I get the impression (I don't really know why) that CD
view AoD as a complete bungle, as the problems of Core, problems they
shouldn't even touch, for fear of implication by association.

Saying that, remember that in TRL Lara will supposedly explore her original
background story...I can't resolve that level of storytelling with an
inability to address the cliffhangers of TR4-5...those TRs certainly weren't
tainted by AoD so that cliffhanger will hopefully be solved.

> -- G
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:48:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wi_je.123021$AE6.115766@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:429047FB.BF56C55A@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> > McGrandpa wrote:
> >>
> >> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
> >> news:428f1041@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> >>> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:428F072B.7B3C6B2D@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> >>>> McGrandpa wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:1116636564.664952.125860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> >>>>>> I figured that AoD was the beginning of a journey brought about
> >>>>>> by her near-death experience. It was taking a road that was
> >>>>>> similar to King Arthur's "Holy Grail" quest: She needed to
> >>>>>> search for a piece of her soul, and the only way she was going
> >>>>>> to regain it was through a sort of "baptism by fire", and the
> >>>>>> Nephelim was going to provide the macguffin necessary for her
> >>>>>> orginal personality to be "reborn"; not necessarily exactly the
> >>>>>> same, since there would still be a change, but enough that we
> >>>>>> could once again recognize Our Lady of Infinite Gunfire.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I like that Paul. That really allows one to bridge straight from
> >>>>> AoD to Legend. That's not the direction Adrian Smith said things
> >>>>> were going. They were taking her literally into a darker
> >>>>> existence. Maybe she was slated to become a vampire? Who knows?
> >>>>> :) 
> >>>>> McG.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe she didn't really escape and Seth is in there somewhere.
> >>>> That would explain how she survived. From the title (AoD), that
> >>>> wouldn't be completely out of line. :) 
> >>>>
> >>>> -- G
> >>>
> >>> *groands* not _more_ egyptian gods! lol....sure, that was what the
> >>> original TR was all about (or parts of it, anyway), but there are
> >>> minefields of mythical mythologies (??) out there...I'd love to see
> >>> TR exploring some other great myths and whatnots.
> >>
> >> People think they've done Egypt to death, and Rome as well. Hey,
> >> there's Greece, and many other places in Italy than Rome or Venice.
> >> But I'm willing to wait and see where they take us, I'm sure it's
> >> going to be adventure.
> >
> > Greek gods--there's *lots* of potential there! :)  Maybe Zeus will
> > take an "interest" in our lovely Lara. ;) 
> >
> > -- G
>
> Ah, and Lara hasnt' yet been to Troy or really anyplace on the Med,
> Aegean or Black seas eh? LOTS of places in the world steeped richly in
> mythos, history and legend :)  I'd say she could spend an entire game
> exploring the isle of Britain alone! We got to see a tiny bit of
> Scotland in Lost Artifact. And some terrific countryside to boot.
> McG.
>
>

Uhhh Alexandria et al in TR4 remember? They were very enjoyable.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:49:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.tombraider (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3B_je.123023$AE6.77905@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6yru@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:4290524D.5DDABF2E@ix.nospam.netcom.com
> > McGrandpa wrote:
> >>
> >> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
> >> news:428f10a8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au
> >>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:%_Dje.111943$h6.89657@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> >>>> "Dragoncarer" <woops@no.sorry> wrote in message
> >>>
> >>> <GODD*** SNIPPING ACTION AGAIN!>
> >>>
> >>>> The direction that AoD took, and subsequent chapters were to
> >>>> further the darkness... was "Cores" idea of 'freshening up the
> >>>> franchise'. Over the edge and gone. He lost it. In more ways
> >>>> than one. Sad really. However, rather than follow the company,
> >>>> it seems meet to me to look to Laras actual origin. She is, after
> >>>> all, the brainchild of one single Toby Gard :)  I think we see his
> >>>> influence all over Legend. I think this will work.
> >>>> McG.
> >>>> McG.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Yesssss....noticed how he was described in the GS interview? He was
> >>> involved in the original 'character design'...it would be
> >>> interesting to know how involved TG has been/ will be in TRL...
> >>
> >> We shall learn soon enough I think :) 
> >
> > I remember reading somewhere that most of TRL was already decided
> > upon and Toby was brought in relatively late in the game, mostly
> > to work on character development (graphics). It seemed that Toby's
> > influence was relatively limited. Either way, how would we know
> > what was Toby's doing and what wasn't?
> >
> > -- G
>
> You're right there. Toby was brought onboard after dev began, clearly.
> It's bee said by Riley that TOBY has control of Lara the character.
> And, that they haven't set out to change Lara per se, but bring her up
> to date. What the model does, how it interacts with the world, how it
> responds to controls as well as how good it looks. :) 
> It looks as if there is a sort of "attract mode" like Morrowind has. If
> you let the game stand idle for a little bit, the camera view shifts out
> to 3rd person and orbits the player character (in other games you have
> choices of character and accoutrements!) and keeps that up till you move
> the mouse or press a key. An in-game screensaver mode if you like.
> Lara in TRL also has idle anims like lots of newer games have. ALICE
> has completely different GROUPS of idle anims dependant on what item you
> have her equipped with. They did a fantastic job with ALICE, and if
> you haven't played it, I'll suggest it to you! The gameplay is good,
> smooth. The graphics and sound are excellent but the music score is
> incredible. HAVE you ever played American McGee's ALICE Gary? If not,
> you have missed an excellent game that is truly a classic! It's a basic
> DX7 type game based on a very modded Quake3 engine...which works
> extremely well. And the story, well that puts the game on rails, but oh
> what fun rails they are :)  It is single player ONLY, and its replay
> value is limited. Once you've finished Alice, you're done. I replay
> sections of it over and over. It's got some great story to it.
> McG.
>
>

That was a good game...but then I'm kinda hooked on Alice/ Wonderland
mythology.
!