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Is this mobo crossfire and sli both?

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April 1, 2011 7:01:17 PM

jaquith, but the g43 says sli and crossfire x on the mobo. my brother has it and he showed me. msi says crossfire only but sli/cross fire on the pcb.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 1, 2011 7:18:43 PM

The PCB is probably the SAME PCB for the MSI P67A-GD65 which has the required chipset. Many MOBO's share a common PCB with capped/missing/blocked connections.

I'd bet on MSI's specs and not the common PCB.
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April 1, 2011 7:22:30 PM

hmm but why is it being marketed on websites as sli o.o

its on like 10 diff websites,
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 1, 2011 8:00:52 PM

Post the links...BTW they're wrong...I assume it's not a review. ;) 
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 1, 2011 8:10:07 PM

NCIX.com is wrong the reseller 'feeder' is wrong. Linus needs to get them to correct the info. BTW - I've seen NCIX post erroneous info before, similar SLI on a non-SLI ASUS P55.

Trust MSI. They know their own product. Don't waste your time.
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April 1, 2011 8:13:35 PM

im calling msi and they dont even know lololol

nvm MSI said it is sli lol

one guy from msi said thats weird its written on the pcb and hung up, the next gay said it is sli and crossfire. hmm o.O
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 1, 2011 8:25:59 PM

A tier1 is knowledgeable enough to get your Name, Number & email address. You need to speak, if you can understand them, a tier2 or tier3 support person.
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April 1, 2011 8:50:52 PM

how do i get to those tiers?
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 1, 2011 9:15:59 PM

When you call ask for Tier 2 Level support; tell them you've spoke to Tier 1 and you were referred to Tier 2.
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April 1, 2011 9:51:05 PM

i want a board for 130-140 and i wanted the pair for the combo reduction >_> i only got 680$ lol tier 2 is gonna call me soon
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April 1, 2011 10:31:44 PM

tier 2 support said it supports it and that its probably just an error.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 1, 2011 10:50:33 PM

Then there you go - confirmed. edit: pretty dumb on MSI's part to state SLI = N/A; I'm certain it cost them a lot of sales. :sarcastic: 

Good Luck! :) 
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a b V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 1:10:03 AM

balthalzar said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... might get this mobo for a gtx 560 ti.
You don't even have to ask about CrossFire since compatibility is unrestricted.

But the board says SLI and CrossFireX. It supports SLI and CrossFire, but NOT CrossFireX. CrossFireX is, properly, CrossFire configurations beyond dual cards, and the board only has two x16-length slots.

Of course they could says CrossFireX is more than two GPUs then refer to using two dual-GPU cards, but that's cheating.
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April 2, 2011 1:13:14 AM

Yeah it was just weird that newegg didnt even say it had sli and that msi's specs said nothing of sli lolol, it took 4 guys at tier 2 level support to find out if it had sli, and all the tier 1 guys said if its written on the board, its on it XD but some places say its crossfire only (tigerdirect)/msi official specs, yet ncix etc has it as sli/crossfire and even has sli on the board. overall i think i confused msi a bit about there own product lol
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 2:12:52 AM

Crashman said:
You don't even have to ask about CrossFire since compatibility is unrestricted.

But the board says SLI and CrossFireX. It supports SLI and CrossFire, but NOT CrossFireX. CrossFireX is, properly, CrossFire configurations beyond dual cards, and the board only has two x16-length slots.

CF wasn't a concern, but SLI is quite a bit different and there's nothing unrestricted about it. Short of a hack, nForce is required and the blah blah optimization. For a few bucks I get glazed over all Intel don't offer SLI, last I recall it's $5!
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a b V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 2:35:57 AM

jaquith said:
CF wasn't a concern, but SLI is quite a bit different and there's nothing unrestricted about it. Short of a hack, nForce is required and the blah blah optimization. For a few bucks I get glazed over all Intel don't offer SLI, last I recall it's $5!
No, Nforce 200 or a driver crack is not required. Nvidia supports SLI for the PROCESSOR'S PCIe controller: This applies to both LGA 1156 and LGA 1155 processors, via verification through a BIOS key.

The BIOS key is where Nvidia makes its "licensing" money. MSI once sold "SLI" and "Non-SLI" models using the same PCB at a slight price difference, and buyers would often flash the SLI BIOS to there non-SLI boards. So MSI gave up and included the key, so far as I can tell, universally. They even announced that they were adding SLI to the cheaper boards via BIOS flash a couple years ago.

Chipset SLI isn't supported by the P67 or P55, because the P67 and P55 are southbridges (slower connection). That's the only place where a "hack" would be needed.

The CPU's PCIe controller addresses a maximum of two devices, and the chipset is considered by Nvidia to be too "slow", so THREE WAY SLI requires the addition of the NF200 PCIe bridge. In this case, the PCIe bridge is only one device, so far as the CPU's PCIe controller is concerned.

LGA 1155, 1156 SLI: NF200 NOT required
LGA 1155, 1156 3-way SLI: NF200 required
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 3:57:13 AM

I knew about the BIOS Key 'SLI certification' and supported chipsets since the P55/X58. However, if the BIOS lacks the 'Key' you're stuck without a hack of some sort whether it be from a re-written BIOS Flash, or a 'freebie' Key.' I'm crystal about NF200, but you've still got the issue of Native 'real' lanes support.

RE: "So MSI gave up and included the key, so far as I can tell, universally" -- so you would think Universally that they would EASILY without a thoght and by default include it on ALL/100% P67 Specs, wouldn't you?? -> http://www.msi.com/product/mb/P67A-G43--B3-.html#/?div=... Hence the OP's post ;) 
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a b V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 4:40:58 AM

jaquith said:
I knew about the BIOS Key 'SLI certification' and supported chipsets since the P55/X58. However, if the BIOS lacks the 'Key' you're stuck without a hack of some sort whether it be from a re-written BIOS Flash, or a 'freebie' Key.' I'm crystal about NF200, but you've still got the issue of Native 'real' lanes support.

RE: "So MSI gave up and included the key, so far as I can tell, universally" -- so you would think Universally that they would EASILY without a thoght and by default include it on ALL/100% P67 Specs, wouldn't you?? -> http://www.msi.com/product/mb/P67A-G43--B3-.html#/?div=... Hence the OP's post ;) 
Yep, pretty sure techsup were being dopes.

As for the "real" lanes issue, it's not an issue when it comes to CrossFire or SLI on the NF200. Both CrossFire and SLI use identical data for every card and the NF200 supports "Broadcast", so x16 really does equal 2x x16 in this situation. I recently wrote a fairly extensive article that proves it again, since everyone seems to have forgotten since the last time I wrote one.
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April 2, 2011 8:56:11 AM

but seeing as a tier 2 said it had sli im okay to buy it >_> right?
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a b V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 9:37:29 AM

balthalzar said:
but seeing as a tier 2 said it had sli im okay to buy it >_> right?
Buy it!
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April 2, 2011 9:42:26 AM

you sure? like i checked Hardware forum and overclock.net and i'm getting alot of noes that the G series (43/45) doesn't have sli, yet newegg says 45 does and 43 doesnt but ncix says both. lol i just dont wanna buy 2 560s and then find out one is worthless (cuz cant return after buying cuz no refund)

msi really needs to update there specs -_-
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 2:21:52 PM

Crashman said:
As for the "real" lanes issue, it's not an issue when it comes to CrossFire or SLI on the NF200. Both CrossFire and SLI use identical data for every card and the NF200 supports "Broadcast", so x16 really does equal 2x x16 in this situation. I recently wrote a fairly extensive article that proves it again, since everyone seems to have forgotten since the last time I wrote one.

So you're trying to convince me the following 3-WAY GTX 580 scenario running at 2560x1600 or 3 HD Monitors - are the SAME?

X58
x8 native
x8 native
x8 native

P67
x8 native
x8 hybrid
x16 hybrid

BS.

edit: I know it's not, and this Building Chart has been confirmed via numerous and overlapping benches ->
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 2:43:30 PM

balthalzar said:
you sure? like i checked Hardware forum and overclock.net and i'm getting alot of noes that the G series (43/45) ... msi really needs to update there specs -_-

Assuming OC + SLI is the goal, personally I want a MOBO with a little more power and 'I' would get the MSI P67A-GD65 (B3) regardless of whether it 'can' SLI. Phases advantages are longevity of MOBO {more phases = lower load/phase = longer life} and Smoother transitions to CPU under load changes. MSI's new 'SFC' with looking at the picture is GD65 6+1 and the G43/C45 4+1 even if it offers '30% more power' it's still too low, in comparison on say ASUS I wouldn't think of anything 12+2 or maybe 8+2 on a strict budget.

I know you can OC a 4+1 to 5GHz the problem is 'for how long?'
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a b V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 6:54:27 PM

jaquith said:
So you're trying to convince me the following 3-WAY GTX 580 scenario running at 2560x1600 or 3 HD Monitors - are the SAME?

X58
x8 native
x8 native
x8 native

P67
x8 native
x8 hybrid
x16 hybrid

BS.

edit: I know it's not, and this Building Chart has been confirmed via numerous and overlapping benches -> http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af254/Jaquith/Build_Chart_Q1-2011-1.jpg
No, I'm saying the P67+NF200 platform will BEAT the X58 in any realistic circumstances.

BEAT

Not match, BEAT

And there's an article in the system waiting to be published, to prove just that.

The closest configuration match would be:

X58 x8-x8-x16 all native
P67 x8-x8-x16 all NF200

X58 gets added latency from the separate PCIe controller, P67 gets added latency from the NF200, etc etc and P67 wins because the CPU architecture is better. Done.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 8:40:37 PM

Realistically most important things first, anyone whose going to drop $1,000 or $1,500+ just on GPUs is NOT going to be running them on a single 60Hz HD Monitor!!! They're either going to run them on a 30" LCD or better yet on a Triple HD/LED setup with 120Hz refresh. Further, if you're running 3-WAY+ no one is going to run anything less than 8XAA and most will run 16XAA whenever possible.

Otherwise you're just pandering foolish nonsense and useless data to prove nothing. I too can play the benching skewing game.

--

Well realistically again, I and a whole lot of folks run 5910± x 1080 {bezel corr.} triple monitors and I said 3-WAY and I said high resolutions. I have an i7-980X @ 4.6 GHz running 3-WAY SLI to 3X 1080p 120Hz monitors myself in 3D Vision. I'm not the only one doing this setup. Refer above; $ GPU vs Setup.

ZERO DOUBTS, I've seen the GTX 580 3-WAY and 2-WAY for that matter on 30" 2560 x 1600 or higher where the x16/x16 on the X58 prevail clock-per-clock, and in most all cases the 3-WAY GTX 580 clearly with X58 {high resolutions}. Don't get me wrong, I love the SB and I'm looking forward to the LGA 2011 this late fall ;)  BTW - I'm not going to be a Guinea Pig so after 30+ days and 2+ BIOS revisions I'm going shopping.

Per the Chart and using a single GPU or 2-WAY SLI on a single HD 1920 x 1080 the P67 is the clear choice. In contrast, extreme setups belong on extreme architecture, and while I like the P67 + SB it's a consumer platform. So I treat it that way...I skipped the P55 and I'm skipping the P67.

If I were to 2-WAY SLI on a single HD then it wouldn't register for anything but the P67/SB.

Please explain for us all where the P67 '32-lanes' goes and how it gets there to the CPU especially when GPUs and resolutions are fairly saturated.
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a b V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 9:11:29 PM

jaquith said:
Realistically most important things first, anyone whose going to drop $1,000 or $1,500+ just on GPUs is NOT going to be running them on a single 60Hz HD Monitor!!! They're either going to run them on a 30" LCD or better yet on a Triple HD/LED setup with 120Hz refresh. Further, if you're running 3-WAY+ no one is going to run anything less than 8XAA and most will run 16XAA whenever possible.

Otherwise you're just pandering foolish nonsense and useless data to prove nothing. I too can play the benching skewing game.

--

Well realistically again, I and a whole lot of folks run 5910± x 1080 {bezel corr.} triple monitors and I said 3-WAY and I said high resolutions. I have an i7-980X @ 4.6 GHz running 3-WAY SLI to 3X 1080p 120Hz monitors myself in 3D Vision. I'm not the only one doing this setup. Refer above; $ GPU vs Setup.

ZERO DOUBTS, I've seen the GTX 580 3-WAY and 2-WAY for that matter on 30" 2560 x 1600 or higher where the x16/x16 on the X58 prevail clock-per-clock, and in most all cases the 3-WAY GTX 580 clearly with X58 {high resolutions}. Don't get me wrong, I love the SB and I'm looking forward to the LGA 2011 this late fall ;)  BTW - I'm not going to be a Guinea Pig so after 30+ days and 2+ BIOS revisions I'm going shopping.

Per the Chart and using a single GPU or 2-WAY SLI on a single HD 1920 x 1080 the P67 is the clear choice. In contrast, extreme setups belong on extreme architecture, and while I like the P67 + SB it's a consumer platform. So I treat it that way...I skipped the P55 and I'm skipping the P67.

If I were to 2-WAY SLI on a single HD then it wouldn't register for anything but the P67/SB.

Please explain for us all where the P67 '32-lanes' goes and how it gets there to the CPU especially when GPUs and resolutions are fairly saturated.
Wow, you already agreed with my math and now you're questioning it again. So let me repeat. NF200 "Broadcast" function is a repeater, it simply takes 16 lanes of data and copies it to two 16-lane sets.

That's perfect because the cards need the same data anyway

It's the same reason why two 2GB cards have a total buffer size of 2GB. Identical data for both cards works both ways, x16 doubled is not 32 but 2x x16, 2GB doubled is not 4GB but 2x 2GB, in both cases because the data is the same for both sets of pathways and both cards.

That's why I test mostly at 2560x1600 for this kind of thing. Now send me more monitors please.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 10:58:47 PM

Wow, if any of that 'stuff' were true. The NF200 takes 8-lanes split off {steals} from the 16-lanes going to the CPU, so the more pseudo 16-lanes {1~X NF200's} you have the more of a bottleneck you're creating going back and forth to the CPU {I/O} and the worst it gets as the PCIe is saturated. The NF200 simply mimics 16-lanes and once saturated it's like pushing a watermelon though a donut hole.

How ever many slices you want to cut the pie into you're stuck with 16 real ones.
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a b V Motherboard
April 2, 2011 11:43:53 PM

jaquith said:
Wow, if any of that 'stuff' were true. The NF200 takes 8-lanes split off {steals} from the 16-lanes going to the CPU, so the more pseudo 16-lanes {1~X NF200's} you have the more of a bottleneck you're creating going back and forth to the CPU {I/O} and the worst it gets as the PCIe is saturated. The NF200 simply mimics 16-lanes and once saturated it's like pushing a watermelon though a donut hole.

How ever many slices you want to cut the pie into you're stuck with 16 real ones.
What I said is completely true, you're simply wrong. I did have a motherboard that sent 8-lanes to the NF200 and 8 to another slot, but I berated the manufacturer for doing that. The bridge can accept 8 or 16 lanes from the CPU, and motherboards like Asus' P8P67 WS Revolution use all sixteen lanes to support up to 4 cards in x8 mode, all through the NF200, 3 cards in SLI at x8-x8-x16 (or x16-x8-x8 depending on how you place the cards).

So, basically, you get 16 lanes to two cards at full bandwidth simultaneously if the NF200 is connected to sixteen CPU lanes. The truth is that the same data is sent to both cards simultaneously for SLI or Crossfire, so you've nothing to lose by simply repeating sixteen lanes to two cards. And identical data is the reason why two 2GB cards only give you a 2GB buffer.

But as everyone else can see, you can't handle the truth.

Let me just add that the best reason to have more independent lanes is to service cards that use independent data, such as a high-end RAID controller and a high-end graphics card. While that makes a good excuse for the continued existence of X58, it has nothing to do with CrossFire or SLI performance.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 3, 2011 1:10:49 AM

There are (2) schemes that I've seen, one where you've agreed with me via the complaint 'stuff'; like 'Manufacturer' is going to listen. Oddly, the most common implementation of the NF200. The other is where all the the PCIe lanes run to the NF200's like the GA-P67A-UD7. 32 Lanes <=> NF200's <=> CPU 16 Lanes.

Somehow, you don't think that I get the Pros & Cons of the NF200, you are obviously swimming in the Pros only. I 'get' the Latency, I get the 32>=funneled= in to 16 Lanes bottleneck, I get the Mixing of Native + Pseudo/funneled Lanes, but I too 'get' the Direct Communication amongst GPUs. I also get the X58, but I also get the efficiency of the X58 via QPI over the NF200, and the upcoming SB-EP increased lanes -- yeah even the X79.

You need some Blue Reality Glasses along with those Rosy ones.

UD7: {which is why the UD7, is to my knowledge, the only x16/x16 LGA 1155}
The UD7; x16, x16/x16 or x16...x8 skipped slot, x8/x8/x16, x8/x8/x8/x8
x8 <--> NF200 --> x8
..................\---> x8

x8 <--> NF200 --> x8
..................\---> x8

x16 <========> x32

Most to the P67's are as I indicated before:
x8 native

x8 <--> NF200 --> x8
..................\---> x8



ASUS P8P67 WS Revolution

Blue_1 {Single at x16 or dual at x8/x8 mode} ; Native
Black_2 {x8 mode} ; Native
Blue_3 {Single at x16 or dual at x8/x8 mode} ; NF200
Black_4 {x8 mode} ; NF200

Single ; Native:
x16 Blue_1

Dual SLI/CF ; Native:
x8 Blue_1
x8 Black_2

Tri SLI/CF ; Mixed:
x8 Blue_1
x8 Black_2
x16 Blue_3

Quad CF ; Mixed:
x8 Blue_1
x8 Black_2
x8 Blue_3
x8 Black_4

CUDA/Tesla ; Mixed:
x8 Blue_1 ; CUDA
-----------------
x8 Black_2; Tesla
x8 Blue_3 ; Tesla
x8 Black_4; Tesla

Mixed offers x8 Native with switch to NF200 for remaining lanes.
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a b V Motherboard
April 3, 2011 1:51:21 AM

jaquith said:
You need some Blue Reality Glasses along with those Rosy ones.

ASUS P8P67 WS Revolution

Blue_1 {Single at x16 or dual at x8/x8 mode} ; Native
Black_2 {x8 mode} ; Native
Blue_3 {Single at x16 or dual at x8/x8 mode} ; NF200
Black_4 {x8 mode} ; NF200
You can argue until you're Blue in the face, but I have the P8P67 WS Revolution here, and this is how it's connected:

CPU 16 Lanes -> NF200 -> 2x (blue) PCIE x16 slots.
Black slots borrow lanes from blue slots.

So it's x16-x0-x16-x0, x16-x0-x8-x8, x8-x8-x16-x0, or x8-x8-x8-x8, all from the NF200. It doesn't matter what anyone says about the board if I have it right here and can trace the lanes myself.

By the way, have you even thought about whether or not what you said makes sense? You can't have Blue_1 , Black_2, and an NF200 all connected to the CPU because 1) the CPU supports only two devices and 2) x8/x8 would be impossible for the first two slots if eight lanes went separately to the two controllers, because that would require the CPU to have 24 lanes rather than 16.

You know what, I'm just going to make it easy for you, here's the picture I took:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/5/8/282716/original/asus_p...

Four two-pathway switches between each blue slot and the corresponding black slot.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 3, 2011 3:42:17 AM

Okay, I'll look some more tomorrow so I can get the P8P67 WS Revolution straight. I assume if the bridge can go to the 2 PCIe blues, you'd get x16/x16. My understanding is/was you need to install them in order {blue then black top down} for 2-WAY P8P67 WS Revolution, and in 3-WAY the top/first was native, and the next 2 were NF200 split/switched off the x8 native -> NF200 x16; see ASUS's 'Triple VGA' per manual but as 4-WAY.

Some damn place I saw exactly what I posted -- from a Review no less.

My assumption is I'm making an error with the P8P67 WS Revolution & Maximus IV Extreme, and with the X58 UD9 vs P67 UD7 from disseminated information.

Mixed Examples:
Maximus IV Extreme


GA-P67A-UD7 with skipped PCIe x16/x8
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a b V Motherboard
April 3, 2011 4:01:25 AM

jaquith said:
Okay, I'll look some more tomorrow so I can get the P8P67 WS Revolution straight. I assume if the bridge can go to the 2 PCIe blues, you'd get x16/x16. My understanding is/was you need to install them in order {blue then black top down} for 2-WAY P8P67 WS Revolution, and in 3-WAY the top/first was native, and the next 2 were NF200 split/switched off the x8 native -> NF200 x16; see ASUS's 'Triple VGA' per manual but as 4-WAY.

Some damn place I saw exactly what I posted -- from a Review no less.

My assumption is I'm making an error with the P8P67 WS Revolution & Maximus IV Extreme, and with the X58 UD9 vs P67 UD7 from disseminated information.

Mixed Examples:
Maximus IV Extreme
http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af254/Jaquith/Maximus-IV-Extreme_PCIe.jpg

GA-P67A-UD7 with skipped PCIe x16/x8
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/8325/slioc.png


That's completely possible, but I do have more bad news: The article I wrote showing the P8P67 WS Revolution beating up on a couple X58 motherboards (same CPU clock, X58 with full "benefits") by a couple percent is actually part 3 of the series and Part 2 hasn't even been published yet. The bad news is that it could still be 2-3 weeks before you see the article I referred to.

The NF200 is a perfect substitute for a 32-lane PCIe controller only when used with SLI or CrossFire. In anything but SLI or CrossFire, the NF200 is insufficient.
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