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ATI vs nVIDIA?

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May 25, 2010 7:15:58 AM

I'm thinking of upgrading my graphics memory on my compyter? Now i'm confused that should i go ATI 5xxx Series or Nvidia 4XX series??Any sugessstion??

More about : ati nvidia

a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 25, 2010 7:42:50 AM

Memory on the graphics card is not a direct indicator of graphics performance, just to note. What resolution are you playing at, what games are you playing and what is your budget?
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a b U Graphics card
May 25, 2010 7:44:03 AM

I seriously beleive this is just troll bait.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 25, 2010 8:19:36 AM

I would recommend an HD5850. At stock it is a decent deal but it can overclock an extreme amount(over 40%) from stock 725mhz to over 1ghz. At those speeds it should give you performance in the area of a GTX 480 for only $300. Just make sure you get one that allows you to raise the voltage on the core to achieve the best speeds.
The GTX 470 is also a decent choice and overclocks very well but it is very power hungry, gives off a lot of heat and is more expensive.
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May 25, 2010 9:06:14 AM

Best answer selected by Shreejan86.
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a b U Graphics card
May 25, 2010 7:56:22 PM

Annisman said:
I seriously beleive this is just troll bait.



This does seem very strange. The originator has already selected the best answer - in less two hours. But more imporatantly, there was no way to provide even a general answer with the the data presented. Lmeo correctly requested some relevant information on gaming to try to help find a decent solution. To which I would add some questions about his computer. How can you know the best graphics card without even knowing his CPU (whether it will be fast enought to make use of the card), his PSU (might not even run the card), and even his memory (might not be the best allocation of resources). Further, other uses and applications could also affect the best choice.

The card recommended might be the best choice - but picking it with so little information presented is a JOKE. And anyone that would presume to recommend a card with so little information has no idea what he is doing.
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a b U Graphics card
May 26, 2010 3:40:49 AM

I agree, this thread was just troll bait to begin with, when I called the op on it, he freaked and picked a best answer. Stupid.
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May 26, 2010 4:58:41 AM

Well sorry guys, i'm on a computer that is shared by other people. I was out to lunch and when i came back my freind had already selected the best answer in this and other questions too. Sorry guys i should have logged out while going out sorry once again. IS there any way that i can again make that answer to normal not the best answer??
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a b U Graphics card
May 26, 2010 6:27:19 AM

Don't worry about it, now if you're serious about your original question, list your system specs and tell us your resolution and what games you want to play so we can give you a good answer.
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a b U Graphics card
May 26, 2010 7:15:52 AM

Is it just me or is it laughable to say the 5850 could compete with a 480?
that just seems totally absurd, even if you expect massive overclocks.

if you tell is your budget though, we can recommend a good card. the 5850 is defeintly one of the best cards on the market (probably the best price/performance wise) but a gtx480 will be massively better if you can afford it.
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May 26, 2010 7:30:21 AM

Annisman said:
Don't worry about it, now if you're serious about your original question, list your system specs and tell us your resolution and what games you want to play so we can give you a good answer.


I have a CORE I7 2.93Ghz
6 GB Corsair ddr3
EVGA P55 Classified 200 Mobo ( i bought it yesterday so i think i should go for nvidia now??))
power supply 750W
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a b U Graphics card
May 26, 2010 7:40:03 AM

and do you have a budget shreejan?

that system will certainly be able to utilize anything you want to put in it, so its more about budget restraints.

the 5770 is a good mid range card, whereas the 5850 is more expensive but considerably more powerful (and capable of maxing out just about any game give-or-take) but the gtx480 is the best if you can afford it, and will no doubt futureproof you for a while to come.
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May 26, 2010 8:29:04 AM

welshmousepk said:
and do you have a budget shreejan?

that system will certainly be able to utilize anything you want to put in it, so its more about budget restraints.

the 5770 is a good mid range card, whereas the 5850 is more expensive but considerably more powerful (and capable of maxing out just about any game give-or-take) but the gtx480 is the best if you can afford it, and will no doubt futureproof you for a while to come.


i can afford a card upto 400$, and yes which vendor shoul i buy msi, asus, evga....etc.???
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May 26, 2010 9:12:15 AM

Get a Sapphire Toxic HD5870 if you don't usually overclock. It's a factory overclocked edition. However, it doesn't leave much headroom for your own overclock.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 26, 2010 9:39:05 AM

HD5870 ain't worth it imo. When you max out an OC on the HD5850 and the HD5870 the performance difference is marginal(5-10%) and not nearly worth the extra money.
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a b U Graphics card
May 26, 2010 4:27:01 PM

You still have not said what games and other applications are important to you. Its just computer 101 that you start with the uses and applications when evaluating hardware. Surprised how many forget, even after being reminded.

Also what is your spending strategy?

1. Do you want the least expensive model card that gives you good current performance in your important games and applications? Note that any speed over 40 to 50 FPS will not be noticeable nor impact game play.
2. Or do you want to also add a little room for future proofing?
3. Or since you have a fast system, do you just want the max power you can get for the $400.

Further, your board allows 2-way and 3-way SLI support. Do you want to be able to do either? To use it now if it gets the best price/performance card? Be able to use it later to upgrade by simply adding another card? I like to preserve the last option - but it means using an nVidia card - as you seem to know but everyone else seemed to ignore.

I prefer nVidia cards anyway, which has an added advantage if you use PhysX or CUDA to assist the CPU in processing. As far as nVidia card brands, I prefer BFG because of OC and service - but they recently announced they are exiting the graphics card business. Coincidentally the second best is EVGA and there certainly could be some benefit from having a graphics card and mobo from the same manufacturing - although I would not pay a lot more than other first run manufacturers and would take one of their sale bargains if available.
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May 26, 2010 4:33:16 PM

shreejan86 said:
I was out to lunch and when i came back my freind had already selected the best answer in this and other questions too.


You need new friends - ones that are not so controlling.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 26, 2010 5:23:58 PM

rockyjohn said:
Further, your board allows 2-way and 3-way SLI support. Do you want to be able to do either? To use it now if it gets the best price/performance card? Be able to use it later to upgrade by simply adding another card? I like to preserve the last option - but it means using an nVidia card - as you seem to know but everyone else seemed to ignore.

Or maybe we just know his board is capable of crossfire as well while you don't.
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a b U Graphics card
May 26, 2010 5:49:09 PM

The manufacturer only lists SLI and not crossfire on the specs. Obviously it is to their advantage to list the crossfire as well if it is fully Crossfire capable or even just supports Crossfire. That they choose not to list it is significant. And since they obviously know more about their boards than I - or you - I see no reason to take a risk they choose not to take.

Further, the ATI list of CrossfireX certified motherboards includes NONE with the P55 chipset like OP's. None.

http://game.amd.com/us-en/certified_details.aspx?cat=2&...

And I suppose your psychic abilities told you what games and other applications are important to OP? And what his purchase strategy is?
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 26, 2010 6:11:27 PM

Are you kidding me? It's because until recently SLI was limited to boards with an nvidia chipset while ALL non-nvidia chipset boards with multiple ports have supported crossfire for a long time. Do some actual research and stop spouting ignorance to herd people towards your preferred choice. To make a mistake is fine. That you were smug about it when you made the mistake is kind of funny. To keep on it after you've been corrected while being snarky at the person who did so is simply very bad form.
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a b U Graphics card
May 26, 2010 6:19:55 PM

But I made no mistake. Everything I said is fact.
You gave the OP a recommendation based on inadequate information at the start and have been trying to defend your error every since. But by not admitting your error and trying to make excuses, all you are doing is digging yourself in deeper with each new post.

You are the one that is wrong and being "snarky" too. I stayed focussed on helping the OP until your third post with the snarky "Or maybe we just know his board is capable of crossfire as well while you don't. " I responded with facts about the lack of Crossfire certification to which you made a second personal attack. Now don't try to play innocent. It is just a further example of how you twist the facts.

I have made statements that are obviously true - like the kinds of information required to make a decision about a graphics card - and posted links for specs and facts, while you ignore facts, spout bad info, provide no references, and make personal attacks.

Please provide support for your statement that "ALL non-nvidia chipset boards with multiple ports have supported crossfire for a long time. " And also explain what you mean by "supported crossfire" compared to "crossfire certified". And why EVGA lists OPs board as SLI capable but makes no mention of crossfire.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
May 26, 2010 6:19:58 PM

rockyjohn said:
The manufacturer only lists SLI and not crossfire on the specs. Obviously it is to their advantage to list the crossfire as well if it is fully Crossfire capable or even just supports Crossfire. That they choose not to list it is significant. And since they obviously know more about their boards than I - or you - I see no reason to take a risk they choose not to take.

Further, the ATI list of CrossfireX certified motherboards includes NONE with the P55 chipset like OP's. None.

http://game.amd.com/us-en/certified_details.aspx?cat=2&...

And I suppose your psychic abilities told you what games and other applications are important to OP? And what his purchase strategy is?


jyjjy said:
Are you kidding me? It's because until recently SLI was limited to boards with an nvidia chipset while ALL non-nvidia chipset boards with multiple ports have supported crossfire for a long time. Do some actual research and stop spouting ignorance to herd people towards your preferred choice. To make a mistake is fine. That you were smug about it when you made the mistake is kind of funny. To keep on it after you've been corrected while being snarky at the person who did so is simply very bad form.


Just to interject and end this.
Quote:
a primary feature of the P55 Classified 200 is the ability to run 3-Way SLI + PhysX or even Quad CrossFireX through the use of its five PCI-E 2.0 16X slots.


Source.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 26, 2010 6:24:21 PM

rockyjohn said:
Further, the ATI list of CrossfireX certified motherboards includes NONE with the P55 chipset like OP's. None.

http://game.amd.com/us-en/certified_details.aspx?cat=2&...

I see you spent 15 mins after posting actually doing research. Good job but usually people do it first. As for your edit that presents the only vague evidence you could find in that time how about this;
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=EVGA+P55+Classified+200
The first link when you google the guys motherboard is a review. In that review they detail it's performance using 3-way crossfire;
http://www.guru3d.com/article/evga-p55-classified-200-r...
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 26, 2010 6:26:47 PM

rockyjohn said:
But I made no mistake. Everything I said is fact.
You gave the OP a recommendation based on inadequate information at the start and have been trying to defend your error every since. But all you are doing is digging yourself in deeper with each new post.

You are mistaken and you chided others for "forgetting" something that is actually not true. Earlier I gave the guy good advice, based on his budget and I don't remember ever "defending" it nor do I see any reason why I would have to.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
May 26, 2010 6:30:36 PM

OK, cease and desist, put down the mouse and step away from the keyboard. You've made your point can we move on now please.
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a b U Graphics card
May 26, 2010 11:55:40 PM

jyjjy said:
You are mistaken and you chided others for "forgetting" something that is actually not true.

You have stated twice that I was mistaken - but you never identified about what. Please quote my mistake. And what I chided you and others for forgetting is "You still have not said what games and other applications are important to you. Its just computer 101 that you start with the uses and applications when evaluating hardware. Surprised how many forget, even after being reminded." So you say it is not true that you start by looking at the software and applications that need to be run?

In an earlier post you wrote"I see you spent 15 mins after posting actually doing research. Good ". You only embarrass yourself making statements based on your assumptions about things that you obviously know nothing about - such as when I learned or researched something. You made a wrong assumption just to make a case to attack me. That is pretty sad. Making up stuff to attack me on.


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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 27, 2010 1:20:39 AM

God...
You posted then edited it with supposed evidence to support what you were claiming 15 minutes later, that's obviously what I was referring to. I guess I was assuming you spent those 15 mins researching the issue and came up with the link you edited into the post. If you actually took a bathroom break in the middle or something I'm sorry, how rude of me to make assumptions.
I honestly do not understand how it is you are asking me to point out the mistake you made. I quoted it in my first response I made and it has been the topic of our entire conversation. The motherboard is in fact crossfire capable and you said everyone was ignoring that only Nvidia cards can be used for a mutli-GPU setup. I corrected you in a rather mildly worded one sentence post. You didn't believe me, repeated your incorrect assertion, acted like I didn't know what I was talking about, attacked me suggesting I think I have psychic powers and give poor advice. I don't have psychic powers but I didn't need them to know you were incorrect or to acquire the 129 chosen best answers I have in this forum. Despite being a mere mortal I will attempt to read your mind and assume you are just trolling at this point because you write too well to legitimately have such a hard time following this conversation. Thus my half of it ends here. I just wish the best answer could be changed to the guy saying this thread was troll bait because it worked beautifully even though it turned out the OP didn't actually have that intention.
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a b U Graphics card
May 27, 2010 1:36:08 AM

In response regarding Crossfire vs. SLI, I repeat the accurate observations I made earlier:

1. "The manufacturer only lists SLI and not crossfire on the specs. Obviously it is to their advantage to list the crossfire as well if it is fully Crossfire capable or even just supports Crossfire. That they choose not to list it is significant. And since they obviously know more about their boards than I - or you - I see no reason to take a risk they choose not to take."

2. "Further, the ATI list of CrossfireX certified motherboards includes NONE with the P55 chipset like OP's. None. "

I saw the review using Crossfire and will agree that Johnny Guru has a well respected site. Nevertheless, I would not choose to use a configuration conspicuosly ignored by the mobo manufacturer while they at the same time prominently point out that they are SLI capable.

As for your comment on the editing, I not infrequently re-read my post a few minutes later and decide to correct spelling or grammer or to edit a few words for clarity.
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a b U Graphics card
May 27, 2010 1:49:39 AM

I love it, I love it!
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 27, 2010 2:02:23 AM

Since you dropped the trolling I'll actually respond so you don't have to make the same mistake in the future. Until recently Nvidia has limited SLI capabilities to motherboards using Nvidia chipsets. They now license it out to be used on Intel chipsets at a cost of $5 per board. ATI does not charge for manufacturers to make their boards crossfire capable and haven't. Outside of motherboards specifically built on an Nvidia chipset all boards with multiple PCI-E x16 slots can be safely assumed to support crossfire. This is why SLI capabilities are currently advertised like it is a special thing while crossfire capabilities are not hyped up to the point where EVGA doesn't even mention it in the product description. There is no risk involved with crossfiring on the OPs board or any other board with a non-Nvidia chipset(provided it has at least 2 slots operating at x8 or higher.)
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 27, 2010 2:18:37 AM

Evga is VERY heavily Nvidia affiliated. Its why imo, they don't go out of their way to add crossfire ready in its features. I've seen the question asked in their forums many times, the simple answer is yes, as stated above. The ATI driver does not require a bios flag, for crossfire support. 16x~4x configs earn crossfire 'support', it will NOT be sli supported.
Its always a minimum of 8X for sli.
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a b U Graphics card
May 27, 2010 4:17:18 AM

jyjjy:

I still have not seen you respond to my questions to point out where I made a mistake, provide support for your comment that "ALL non-nvidia chipset boards with multiple ports have supported crossfire for a long time" (emphasis on "ALL" by you), or explained how you can make good hardware recommendations without knowing the games and applications that are most important to the owner.

Nothing has changed the key original observation that you recommended a graphic card before knowing OP's budget, his hardware configuration, his purchasing strategy or approach, nor his important games and applications. I continue to maintain it is impossible to provide good advice without such information.
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a b U Graphics card
May 27, 2010 4:23:39 AM

You really want to keep the flame war going ? Probably a bad idea.
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a b U Graphics card
May 27, 2010 4:37:02 AM

Rocky, the games a person plays is mostly irrelevent at this budget level.

when it comes to high end cards, gmaing is bound to be the focus, and the performance of those cards is pretty much the same throughout the same games.

the budget/performance path is completely linear under most circumstances (5770>5850>470>5870>480>5970)

the games a person plays is unlikely to change that, so unless the OP has stated specifacalyl that he will be doing something unusual, i would say making that recomendation is perfectly acceptable.
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a b U Graphics card
May 27, 2010 9:50:32 PM

First the OP has said nothing about other applications. There are some applications at which nVidia, with CUDA and its PhysX, clearly excel at over ATI. It would not be unusual for someone who has invested so much already in his CPU and an extreme board that OCs well to have some of those uses. He has paid considerably more for the faster CPU and mobo than is required for top game play.

The path you speak about is not as linear as you make beleive. Just look at the charts on the THG balanced system article and this is obvious - as are the difference between ATI and nVidia cards.

In addition, the OP still has not disclosed his purchasing strategy or philosohy. He said he could afford "a card up to $400". Does he want to spend the full $400 and get the best card he can for that amount or is there some target level of play - for some target set of games - that he would like to achieve? Is he willing to spend what might be 50% more for a 5% increase in performance - or what might not even show up as any increase in performance. Related to that we still have no idea what size of monitor he plans to use - which has an obvious impact on requirements.

Do I want to keep a flame war going? That is not my intent at all. But jyjjy is pretending he provided good advice when he did not have - and still does not have - the information required to make that decision. But rather than admit this or seek out the info, he chooses one little point to attack - the Crossfire issue - to evade all the other issues and try to pretend he did right.

I do not want to keep a flame war going, but I am tired of seeing people misleed posters by offering advice when they obviouly have not sought out the information required to really help. They are not really trying to help the OP - just exercise their own egos.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 27, 2010 10:21:26 PM

This is almost surreal at this point.
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May 28, 2010 12:51:07 AM

Ok well the blind leading the blind isn't the best and i'm not as smart as these guys but getting a saphire toxic version of either the 5850 or 5870 is a good idea in my opinion.. I would wait out until they get more in stock at newegg, they get them and they go quickly they are that good, also make sure your motherboard has enough room for the card you might think you have enough room but you might not, just saying because alot of places won't refund a card because you didn't measure your room.
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a b U Graphics card
May 28, 2010 2:28:22 AM

rockyjohn said:
First the OP has said nothing about other applications. There are some applications at which nVidia, with CUDA and its PhysX, clearly excel at over ATI. It would not be unusual for someone who has invested so much already in his CPU and an extreme board that OCs well to have some of those uses. He has paid considerably more for the faster CPU and mobo than is required for top game play.

The path you speak about is not as linear as you make beleive. Just look at the charts on the THG balanced system article and this is obvious - as are the difference between ATI and nVidia cards.

In addition, the OP still has not disclosed his purchasing strategy or philosohy. He said he could afford "a card up to $400". Does he want to spend the full $400 and get the best card he can for that amount or is there some target level of play - for some target set of games - that he would like to achieve? Is he willing to spend what might be 50% more for a 5% increase in performance - or what might not even show up as any increase in performance. Related to that we still have no idea what size of monitor he plans to use - which has an obvious impact on requirements.

Do I want to keep a flame war going? That is not my intent at all. But jyjjy is pretending he provided good advice when he did not have - and still does not have - the information required to make that decision. But rather than admit this or seek out the info, he chooses one little point to attack - the Crossfire issue - to evade all the other issues and try to pretend he did right.

I do not want to keep a flame war going, but I am tired of seeing people misleed posters by offering advice when they obviouly have not sought out the information required to really help. They are not really trying to help the OP - just exercise their own egos.


Do you insist on making every simple thread into such a runaround? if the OP wanted those things considered, he would have factored it into the original post. he has not, so we can either assume they don't matter, or that he doesn't know on enough on the subject to tell us and wont care anyway.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 28, 2010 9:31:02 AM

cmaki2008 said:
Ok well the blind leading the blind isn't the best and i'm not as smart as these guys but getting a saphire toxic version of either the 5850 or 5870 is a good idea in my opinion..
Those cards are on a custom PCB and do not allow for voltage modification so I would avoid them if you are planning on overclocking. This is generally considered the best HD5850 around for OCing and has a very effective and quiet cooler;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
But it is out of stock as well on newegg. It's available elsewhere though;
http://www.google.com/products?q=directcu+5850&hl=en&sc...
Here is a review;
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1273/1/

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May 28, 2010 10:20:08 AM

the one jyjjy was talking about has alot of really nice oc'ing software
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a b U Graphics card
May 29, 2010 12:37:23 AM

welshmousepk said:
if the OP wanted those things considered, he would have factored it into the original post. he has not, so we can either assume they don't matter, or that he doesn't know on enough on the subject to tell us and wont care anyway.


Assuming that because someone does not know enough to know how to ask means they won't care is absurd. Most likely they come to a forum like this hoping that the posters have the expertise they lack, and will ask questions if they do not provide all the information needed to make an intelligent recommendation.
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a b U Graphics card
May 29, 2010 2:01:35 AM

Quote:
I hate to burst your bubble but this statement is WRONG. A 1Ghz 5870 doesn't even come close to an overclocked 480 so how is a 5850 even going to be close? Over at XS a Overclocked 470 beat up on a 1Ghz 5870 by 2K points in 06 and over 500 points in vantage.


while your statement is true, using vantage as your reasoning is just silly. thays the most unreliable benchmark out there, and heavily Nv skewed.
a 5870 IS better than a 470.

but yes, a 5850 is not going to come anywhere near a 480.
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 29, 2010 2:11:27 AM

With physx disabled Vantage does not favor Nvidia. It does show higher scores with highly o/c Intel cpu's especially with triple channel ram. But either a ATI or Nvidia gpu can be paired up with that. Those scores don't always reflect gaming power, because the AMD cpu can drive a gpu in most cases just as well, imho.
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
May 29, 2010 2:39:43 AM

Read this over at Anands, everyone should grab a copy of the beta Nvidia driver, before they change it. I guess the check is gone that stops physX with a ATI gpu present as the main gpu. Its going to be updated . But it seems oportunistic for ATI owners who want to try this , without a user hacked solution. http://www.anandtech.com/show/3744/nvidia-forceware-257...
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a b U Graphics card
May 29, 2010 2:59:32 AM

Quote:
It's a benchmark used around the world so i'm not sure why i shouldn't be basing an opinion on it's numbers.


because its numbers are not reflective of real world performance.

a 5870, in the largest proportion of games, is better than a 470. just 'cause a single synthetic says otherwise, does not make it so.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
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May 29, 2010 4:06:21 AM

Quote:
I hate to burst your bubble but this statement is WRONG. A 1Ghz 5870 doesn't even come close to an overclocked 480 so how is a 5850 even going to be close?

I hate to burst your bubble but what you are saying is obvious and in no way contradicts me. The comparison I was making was to a stock GTX 480. If I meant overclocked I would have said so.
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May 29, 2010 4:59:31 AM

I didn't. I compared an overclocked HD5850 to a stock GTX 480. I did so because it is an appropriate comparison so the person can know what kind of performance they will be getting if they overclock the card.
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a b U Graphics card
May 29, 2010 2:17:02 PM

But why would they consider OC the HD5850 and not OC the GTX 480? It is not an appropriate or meaningful comparison.
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