Need Compatibility Info/Advice on my First $1500 Performance Rig

[biff6789]

Been reading this website/forum for years, but this is my first post... You guys are geniuses so I want to pick your brains

As the title says, I'm looking to build a $1500 (USD) performance rig. I already have all peripherals (monitors, kb, mouse, speakers, et al) as well as the OS, so I can invest the entire $1500 into just the tower and its contents, but if I can get the same system for cheaper, then I'm all for it.

I've done a lot of reading here, on wikibooks, as well as a few other places on how to build a rig so I think I've done my research... Now I want to put my build to the test and see what you experts think as far as my selected components go


APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: Within the next month or so, but can be any time

BUDGET: Around $1500, but I'm a little flexible with this if I need to be

SYSTEM USAGE: Adobe CS4/5 Suite, Full Roxio and Nero studios for video editing, possible gaming, plenty of storage for pics and videos, other basics (word processing, webcam, internet, email)

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Monitors (dual display 1920x1080), keyboard, mouse, speakers, soundcard as I will use the integrated sound, and OS (Win 7 Professional - 64 bit)

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S): Been using TigerDirect and all my links below point to it, but I'm open to whatever you guys suggest

PARTS PREFERENCES: I would like highly reviewed components only. If I'm gonna spend $1500 on a rig, I would hate to have a bottleneck from a crappy/cheap component

OVERCLOCKING: Yes on the CPU (will take an i7-920 to 3.66 gigs), maybe on the RAM and GPU - I'm still learning about OC'ing the latter two

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Unless you guys say I need it for CS4/5, then I probably WON'T do it as I don't need it. You tell me

MONITOR RESOLUTION: (DO NOT NEED TO PURCHASE) but they are two 24" 1980x1020 that will be a dual display setup

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
In all honesty, I'm completely open to whatever you guys suggest and am NOT set on the exact components listed below. If you have advice on a better component, or if you find that something I link below is crappy or not compatible with the rest of my setup, please advise a better component within the same general price range. I've never built a rig before so you guys are my only hope in preventing compatibility issues

Mainly the computer will be used for photoshop and video editing, but I also want it to be able to handle anything else I throw at it (a game or two, other intensive programs). I would also like it to be ready for USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s

Here are my potential components:

Case:
Cooler Master HAF 932 (I like how many fans are already in there to keep everything cool and how expandable it is, but advise a better ATX case if you guys know of one. Will this one fit all my components properly?)

Power Supply:
XION Power Real 1000W (I have no idea how much power I need... Is 1000W overkill??)

CPU:
Intel Core i7-920 (Will OC to 3.66)

Heatsink/CPU Fan:
ThermalTake SpinQ (What do you guys think of this guy? Will it be sufficient to keep my OC'd CPU cool enough? Do I need to buy something else in addition to this?)

Thermal Compound:
OCZ OCZTFRZTC Freeze Thermal Extreme Conductivity Compound (I honestly know nothing about thermal compounds. Is this sufficient for what I need?)

Motherboard:
ASUS P6X58D PREMIUM (This I really want your advice on. I want to be able to OC easily, and I want USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s, so tell me what to do here - Should I stick with this guy or get something else?)

RAM:
Corsair XMS3 Tri Channel 6GB (2X2048) PC10666 DDR3 Memory @ 1333MHz (I might OC this. Is this easy to OC? Is it overkill? Do I need more than 6GB for what I want to do?)

HD:
Western Digital WD15EARS @ 1.5 TB (x2) (Probably won't RAID)

DVD:
Sony AD-7240S-0B Optiarc (x2)

WiFi:
Linksys WMP600n (Want N functionality, but am open to a different card if you guys suggest one. I currently use a Linksys router if it makes any difference compatibility-wise)

Video Card:
XFX HD577AZNFC Radeon HD 5770 Video Card - 1GB GDDR5 (I don't know much about video cards so please offer suggestions, as long as it's dual display ready)

Media Card Reader:
Sabrent CRW-UINB

Bluetooth:
Sabrent BT-USBT

 

[banthracis]

Wow that build is a mess >.<

Ok lets start with each.

Case
HAF 922 is cheaper, and will satisfy all your needs. It's actually got more convenience features too.

PSU
No, please don't get that PSU unless you want a $1,500 doorstop in 2 months.
For your needs a Corsair 650TX is enough.

CPU
i7-930 is about the same price and has a higher multiplier, so a bit better buy.

HSF
Spinq looks pretty, but funtions like crap. A CM Hyper 212 Plus is a great ~$30 HSF. For top notch performance a Megahalem, Noctua NH-D14, or Tuniq Tower 120 extreme are all great. Bear in mind though, it's like a 6 degree difference between the $30 HSF and the $60-90 top end ones.

Compound
No need unless you're doing a high OC.

MOBO
Actually the P7P55D-E is the one we recommend. $240.
The GA X58 UD3R is also great for $210.

Corsair is usually overpriced. If you want to OC above 3.6 ghz, you'll want DDR3
1600.

G Skill Pi or trident are the best kits for the money. Pi get the 1600 cas 7 kit, trident 2000 cas 9.

HD
>1TB drives have a pretty high failure rate. Better off just getting a 1TB SPinpoint F3 and adding more if needed.

Wifi
Whats wrong with a good ole cat 5/6e?

GPU
CUDA? If so nvidia required.

What do u need bluetooth for?

 

[biff6789]

@banthracis

WOW! Great feedback, thanks!

I'm glad I asked you guys cuz it looks like I might have blown $1500 on some junk components (this is why I came to you guys first). As I said before, this is my first build so thanks for being nice and not flaming me


To answer your questions:

As for the wifi, the desktop is temporarily moved to a location that does not have a cat 5 outlet nearby, so we're forced to use the wifi for the time being

As for the bluetooth, it's complicated, but the short version is that my windows mobile smartphone uses it frequently. It's only 9 bucks so what the hell, right


A few follow-up questions on your suggestions:

RAM:
Could you clarify on this a little more? I could only find one of the two you recommended (I found the g skill one) and it wasn't even sold in a tri level setup...

PSU:
I found a couple calculators online to help figure out how much power you need, but could never find a good answer. Are you sure 650W is enough?

CPU:
What is the i7-930 multiplier set at? I thought the 920 is set to 20, while the extreme i7s go up to 24...

HSF:
Looking into the Tower 120 extreme now, but some complain that it's a little tricky to install. Do you think it would be hard to mount on a 1366 board in the HAF 922? Also, it doesn't have as high of reviews as some others - why not?

Compound:
To clarify, I don't need any at all?? Would it hurt if I put some on anyway?.. or do you think it's a waste of time and just makes a mess

Mobo:
I actually looked at the GA-X58A-UD3R earlier, but thought the ASUS board I recommended was better... But if you say I should go with the gigbyte model instead, then I trust your judgment

Video Card:
Which nvidia card would you recommend?

 

[biff6789]

Wow that build is a mess >.<

Ok lets start with each.

...

My bad, I meant to hit the "reply" button when I replied to your post above.

See my post immediately above this one for a response to your questions/suggestions

Again, great feedback. Thanks!

 

[Mark Heath]

If I could be so bold as to answer a few things:

The multiplier for the 930 is 21.
650W should be enough. If you get a good card and SLI them, then maybe 750W, but no higher.

G.Skill Trident RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231254&cm_re=g.skill_6gb_trident-_-20-231-254-_-Product
G.Skill Pi RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231335&cm_re=g.skill_6gb_pi-_-20-231-335-_-Product

 

[biff6789]

If I could be so bold as to answer a few things:
...

Thanks, bro.

What's the difference between the Pi and the Trident??

 

[Mark Heath]

well.. for starters, the Tridents are rated to run at higher speeds, but at higher latency. The Pis are rated to run at lower (better) latency at lower speeds, but the Tridents could also be run at lower speeds than their rated speeds to get the same latency as the Pis (tell me if you're completely lost )

(There's only 1 "s" on the end of that Pi)

 

[Somebody_007]

May I reccomend the ga-x58a-ud5. Just like the ud3r just with a few more features so OCing should be easier and maybe safer.

 

[Somebody_007]

Now I'm the stalker eh?

 

[biff6789]

well.. for starters, the Tridents are rated to run at higher speeds, but at higher latency. The Pis are rated to run at lower (better) latency at lower speeds, but the Tridents could also be run at lower speeds than their rated speeds to get the same latency as the Pis (tell me if you're completely lost )

(There's only 1 "s" on the end of that Pi)

Yea, you lost me. If you could help me understand what that meant I'd appreciate it

 

[Somebody_007]

From what I understand it goes like this :

Cas latency: the number cycles, operations or whatever you want to call it to do something: so lower is better

Freqeuency AKA speed: How many of these operations, cycles it can do in a period of time: higher is better.

 

[biff6789]

Alright guys, thanks for the advice on the RAM

I did my research and came up with this guy:

G.SKILL PI Series 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7T-6GBPI
Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231335

Since I want to OC the CPU and, therefore, probably the RAM and since this guy has a Cas latency of 7, it should be a good choice, right?

Also, others have commented that you HAVE to OC the CPU if it is an i7-930 or lower (I'll be using a 930), otherwise the CPU can't handle the speed of the RAM.

Can you guys confirm this?

 

[SushiG]

I think what they are trying to say is that if you want to overclock your processor, your RAM won't handle the speed and bottleneck. Correct me if I'm wrong though. >.<

 

[biff6789]

I think what they are trying to say is that if you want to overclock your processor, your RAM won't handle the speed and bottleneck. Correct me if I'm wrong though. >.<

Well, I think they were saying that the RAM I posted 2 posts up is too FAST for the stock i7-930 and that you HAVE to OC the 930 if you want to even use that RAM at all?

Does that sound right? Can that RAM not be used with the stock 930?

 

[Mark Heath]

To use that RAM at the rated speeds on a stock 930, you'd have to decrease its frequency. If you're oc'ing then it's not a problem.

Latency: more or less how long before your RAM does what you tell it to do.
Frequency: more or less the speed it does it once it starts.

Now I'm the stalker eh?

oh screw :lol:

 

[Somebody_007]

Alright guys, thanks for the advice on the RAM

I did my research and came up with this guy:

G.SKILL PI Series 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7T-6GBPI
Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231335

Since I want to OC the CPU and, therefore, probably the RAM and since this guy has a Cas latency of 7, it should be a good choice, right?

Also, others have commented that you HAVE to OC the CPU if it is an i7-930 or lower (I'll be using a 930), otherwise the CPU can't handle the speed of the RAM.

Can you guys confirm this?

Well the answer has kind of been given but let my try be more clear:

RAM frequency: bclk*ram multiplier(standard is 133*8 I think)

CPU frequency: bclk*cpu multiplier(for a 930 the standard is 133*21 I think)

So as you can see from the above if you raise the (bclk)base clock both your cpu and ram will speed up. What the people probably meant is that you if you want to raise your ram speed by raising the bclk your cpu will also go faster.

But there are many ways to solve this: either just raise the ram multiplier(this might not always be possible) if that isn't possible you can raise the bclk and lower the cpu multiplier. That way you can increase the ram speed and keep the cpu speed more or less the same. Your still messing about with cpu settings so some people might call it Overclocking but technically your just clocking.

 

[banthracis]

@banthracis

A few follow-up questions on your suggestions:

RAM:
Could you clarify on this a little more? I could only find one of the two you recommended (I found the g skill one) and it wasn't even sold in a tri level setup...

PSU:
I found a couple calculators online to help figure out how much power you need, but could never find a good answer. Are you sure 650W is enough?

CPU:
What is the i7-930 multiplier set at? I thought the 920 is set to 20, while the extreme i7s go up to 24...

HSF:
Looking into the Tower 120 extreme now, but some complain that it's a little tricky to install. Do you think it would be hard to mount on a 1366 board in the HAF 922? Also, it doesn't have as high of reviews as some others - why not?

Compound:
To clarify, I don't need any at all?? Would it hurt if I put some on anyway?.. or do you think it's a waste of time and just makes a mess

Mobo:
I actually looked at the GA-X58A-UD3R earlier, but thought the ASUS board I recommended was better... But if you say I should go with the gigbyte model instead, then I trust your judgment

Video Card:
Which nvidia card would you recommend?

RAM already answered
CPU Already answered
HSF All the big HSF's are a bit tricky to mount. Just read directions, watch some videos if you want to on youtube. There's lots of random complaint on newegg, shrug. Bench's put those 3 pretty close to each other.
Compound- won't hurt. But like I said, it's not a big deal unless you're doing an extreme OC. THe tuniq comes with a tube so no need to buy another.
gpu- Nvidia, only the 470gtx is really worth it's price.


About the whole RAM thing.

AMD architecture favors tighter timings over faster speed for performance increase. Intel, favors neither. That said, neither makes a significant impact on performance to warrant a major price difference.

CAs latency refers to how long it takes the RAM to do somethign after it's given a command. Makes no difference to FPS in gaming, but like an SSD, it improves system responsiveness.

Stock i7-930 is 133 block, 21 multiplier and 10x memory multiplier. Though the latter is determined by MOBO not CPU. This fully saturated 1333mhz RAM. 133block speed x 10 memory multiplier= 1330.

To OC above this you'll need to either lower multiplier or get faster RAM.
In general, we recommend DDR3 1600 RAM if you plan on a OC.

Now, the reason why we recommend G Skill RAM is that memory can perform better than rated speeds. Most companeis sell you RAM that'll perform at specs, G SKill tends to give you better than you pay for. So their RAM can run at higher speeds, lower voltages and/or lower timings than specs. OCZ is the opposite, hence we don't recommend them.

High speeds requires [strike]tighter [/strike] looser timings to work. I'll avoid the tech details as to why, but suffice to say this is a mechanically imposed limitation. Now, because faster RAM must be of higher quality to maintain the same latency as slower RAM, they're generally better quality. As a result, the Trident DDR3 2000 kit that's rated at cas 9 at 2000, can hit CAS 6 at 1600 speeds. CAS 5 at 1333 speeds. This is why people will buy extremely fast RAM. They're getting higher quality RAM so they can run it at tighter timings for the speeds they want.

Now as to why 1600 7-8-7-24 kit is better than a 1333 7-7-7-21 kit, is because, the 1600 kit can run 7-7-7-21 when under clocked to 1333 speeds.

TLDR You get faster RAM because it'll get better timings when you underclock it to speeds you're using.

 

[biff6789]

/snipped message above

WOW! Great response, banthracis

Well, with the i930 I plan to OC it to around 3.5GHz (160 bclk x 22 multiplier = 3520)

Since the bclk will be set at 160, which RAM should I get?? The G.Skill PI (7-8-7-24) or the G.Skill Trident (9-9-9-24)... or does it not even make a difference? What would I put the settings at for the RAM?

 

[banthracis]

Can't use 22 multiplier.

Ok, yes you can w/ turbo boost, but effective 21 is the most you can actually set. Either way, odd multiplier are much more stable than even. I'm not sure why, I can make a guess, but you'll have to ask Intel to be sure.

3.5 ghz would be 167mhz x 21.

RAM choice doesn't really matter. Either will work. The tridents will give you better latencies. When there was only $10 price difference, it was worth considering, at $20, not really.

 

[banthracis]

Oh, psu, 650 is fine long as you don't xfire/sli.

A GTX 470 for $300 after $20 MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125320&cm_re=gtx_470-_-14-125-320-_-Product

 

[biff6789]

/snipped post

Ok, thanks once again. You personally have saved me from several stupid decisions while making this build so I sincerely thank you I'm still learning (that's why I'm here asking you!) and you've been a great help...

As for the CPU, I wasn't really set on the speed 3.5GHz or anything, I just came to that number since I wanted to use a bclk speed of 160 since it's a nice clean number for the RAM

But the more I learn, it looks like maybe I don't necessarily need a clean bclk number for the RAM. Although on the other hand, I could leave the bclk at 160 and set the CPU to 21x (3.3GHz) which is still a good CPU speed and may not even require any voltage increases which could keep the CPU alive longer... Then I could just set the RAM to 10x so that it runs at a clean, exact 1600 - tell me if I'm wrong here

But since you say it doesn't matter which RAM to use, if there is a price discrepancy then I'll just roll with the cheaper PI modules

 

[banthracis]

Well a nice OC would actually be block 200, 21 CPU multiplier, and 8x memory multiplier.

Get's you 4.2 ghz and DDR3 at 1600.

Voltage needed might get scary though depending on the chip.

 

[biff6789]

Well a nice OC would actually be block 200, 21 CPU multiplier, and 8x memory multiplier.

Get's you 4.2 ghz and DDR3 at 1600.

Voltage needed might get scary though depending on the chip.

Yea, I'd be too scared to go that high. Plus I'm only running on air so I'd probably fry the chip pretty quickly at those voltages anyway

I'm not a crazy overclocker, but since the i7 chips can handle it so well, I figure "why not?" A speed somewhere in the mid-3GHz zone would be great. But I just need to figure out which specific G.Skill RAM to get and what settings/multipliers to use in the BIOS to make the 930 and the RAM play nicely together while overclocked...

 

[banthracis]

RAM can run at pretty much any speed up to and a bit over their rated perfectly fine. You don't have to match the RAM to speed to exactly 1600 or 1333 or w/e.

For example, my i5-750 runs at 3.6ghz. 171 block, 21 multiplier and 8 Memory multiplier.

RAM is running at 1368.


Another common i7-930 OC is 3.8 ghz with 200mhz block, 19x multiplier, 8x memory.

4.2ghz is doable in many chips at 1.4v which is fine for air.

 

[Somebody_007]

If you stay under the reccommended cpu voltage there shouldn't be to big a risk of shortening life span. 1.25 volts is often reccomended as the max. I don't know what kind of OC you can get from that but my 930 hits 3.5 no problem at 1.2v maybe I can go higher I haven't tried.