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Three new computers frezzes

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July 9, 2010 1:26:41 PM

- I'm not so good at English ;)  , so if something is not understood, pleace ask.

I just build three new computers, but I got a problem whit them. They all frezze, even when they are not doing anything!... Two for them are the same build:

System 1:
Motherbord: MSI Ecplise Plus
CPU: Core I7-975
GFX: Geforce GT 220
RAM Corsair XMS3 1333MHz 9-9-9-24 1.5v 3x2Gb
HDD: 2x750 WD

2x System 2:
Motherbord: Zotac H55-ITX
CPU: Intel Core I5-661
RAM OCZ 1333MHz 9-9-9 1.65v 2x2GB
SSD: Intel 40Gb Value


It seems to be the same problem. They all install Windows 7 Ultimate fine, but then after I have installed updates and drivers, they just frezze randomly... I have run Memtest on them all several times, but there seems to be no problem there.

Any one who can help me?


- I'm not so good at English ;)  , so if something is not understood, pleace ask.

More about : computers frezzes

July 9, 2010 1:58:54 PM


You did install the most recent drivers from THE nVidia Support Page ?

July 9, 2010 1:59:54 PM

Yes
Related resources
July 9, 2010 2:05:43 PM

Also ... Are you using the stock coolers? ... did you apply thermal paste? .. how did that go?

If you made some error in the cooler installations, the heat could cause such symptoms.

Good/clean/adequate power (PSU) is also needed ... marginal power can cause freezes.

What is the ambient temperature, in the room? ... Are you in any sort of medical or industrial facility (MRI machines, for instance?)
July 9, 2010 2:32:46 PM

I don't have the stock cooler for the 975, but it is better than the stock. ;)  ... or it should be!

The temps. on the cores are about 42 C/107 F. The northbridgs (or some other component on the motherbord) are 60 C/140 F, and that is the highest temp.

I don't know about the PSU but it is a 550W, and the system don't need that much power...

I think it is about 25 C here. No the computer is in my bedroom. :) 
July 9, 2010 3:02:29 PM

Wow.

I think that it WOULD be a mistake, to treeat all these three system as having some common factor or "fault" because, the only truly common element is YOUR methods and (perhaps) the same supplier.

There WERE some freeze issues with the GT220s which were subsequently "fixed" by a more recent driver update BUT .... BUT ... I did read some (two) threads which stated that ROLLING BACK the driver version (to some, specific, previous version) did solve, for one "poster" ... I believe the other thread was solved by RE-installing the video drivers that CAME WITH the GT220 ... might give THAT a try (on one system, anyway).

Let's just talk about random freezes and what might cause them, a bit ... and let's remind ourselves that these three issues (your three system faults) *could* be completely un-related to one another (i.e. completely different causes?).

So ... what (by order of statistical likelyhood), could cause a (any) system to lock up (freeze) ??

(1) sw/firmware config (drivers and BIOS settings).
(2) Flakey RAM modules / ** INADEQUATE RAM VOLTAGES AND/OR TIMING ENTRIES **
Or ... Improperly seated ram modules or (unlikely), a bad RAM slot.
(3) A cheap or faulty case (or case switches/connectors) OR misplaced mb-stand0ffs, which are causing intermittent grounding or shorts. (prolly not, tho).
(4) A bad PSU or a too-small PSU or bad local power quality (sounds like NOT, tho)
(5) Poor/faulty/contaminated/unseated CPU thermal junction (COMMON with new sys).

>>>>>>>>>>>> I am going to go with #2 ... <<<<<<<<<<<

DO NOT ASSUME THE SYS WILL PROPERLY AUTO-SENSE RAM TIMINGS !!

Go into the BIOS RAM TIMING fields and MANUALLY ENTER (KEY IN) the RAM timings, eexactly as published on the RAM-spec/data-sheet (or on the packaging) that CAME WITH your RAM ,,,

S A V E << THOSE/ALL BIOS ENTRIES/SETTINGS On or BEFORE exiting the BIOS !!!!

Re-enter the BIOS and CONFIRM the (RETAINED/SAVED) entries DO CONFORM to the published timings that shipped WITH your RAM.

see what happens ... if that does not work, then try boosting (INCREASE) your RAM voltage by TWO ONE HUNDREDTHS OF ONE VOLT ... or three.

(and save those increased voltage settings before/upon exiting the BIOS)



= Al =


July 9, 2010 3:22:19 PM

Thaks for a very nice answer. :D 

I do have a 9800GT that I can try whit...

I have already entered the timings and the voltage manually. ;)  And there was no problem in Memtest, but I can try to give them some more volt or maybe decreasing the Mhz.
July 9, 2010 4:01:14 PM

The more I think about it, the more I suspect RAM config.

Can you run prime95 ?

Other, less likely possibilities ...

Improperly seated/locked RAM or GPU or CPU

Faulty mb capacitors (there was a big problem with lots of faulty capacitors getting into all sorts of GPUs and MBs ... some of those parts may still be "in channel".

Faulty mouse/kb/peripherals ... too-long USB cable extensions (accompanied by device not detected error message and gong).

Viral or Malware infections

OS config/hw/sw compatibility issues (32/64 apps, tweaks, bugs. updates)

Corrupt media.

****************************************

Just some other questions.

1) Are symptoms exactly the same, for all systems ?
2) Same version of windows? ... 32? ... 64?
3) How long (after full boot), typically, before lockup occurs ??
4) What is the shortest and longest time, before lockup occurs?
5) Is the lockup always permanent and fatal (requiring reboot)??
6) Can you Cntrl-Alt-Del out of the lockup to reboot ??
7) can you hit the reset switch, to reboot?
8) must you cycle the REAR(on PSU) pwr swtch, to reboot?
9) Can you run or use any apps, at all? ... watch a movie ... connect?
10) are there ANY error messages (dialogs) issued or options to clear ?
11) does the sys ALWAY require reboot, to un-freeze?
12) Is there any consistency or common elements (for one or more systems)?

Those are just a few of the clarifications which might prove helpful.

= Al =
July 9, 2010 4:18:18 PM

Me too, but the RAM runs at std. settings, but I will try to increase the voltage. ;) 

Yes I can try to run Prime95 if you want. ;) 

1) It seems like it
2) No 32-bit for the small systems and 64-bit for the big one.
3) 5min.
4) Shortest: just after Windows boot. Longest: about 10min.
5) Yes, no BSOD.
6) Hmm I don't think so... I havn't tried.
7) Yes
8) No, I use the reset button in front of the case.
9) I have installed all drivers and updates, and installed HWmonitor.
10) No
11) Yes
12) They all install Windows 7 whitout problems. Non of the hardware are the same in system 1 and 2, but it is the same in the two system 2.
July 9, 2010 4:46:16 PM


Well ... I am going to recommend that you TOTALLY FORGET about TWO of the systems and ONLY troubleshoot ONE system, until completely solved and tested ... That solution may (or may not) apply to one or both of the other systems.

Here is our (totally excellent and effective) troubleshooting checklist.

This is NOT a mental (academic) exersize ... It requires that you make NO assumptions (none) and that you take nothing for granted (yes, I *could* be THAT stoopid! and have overlooked the ridiculously simple).

Here ya go ... peruse and execute all steps ... physically verify ... the term "re-seat" means to (actually and really) pull the card/module/connector all the way out (or off) and to then fully and firmly replace it, with sufficient force.

G'Luck !!

PERFORM THESE STEPS before posting about boot/no video problems!
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-perform-ste...

Also .... This :

Step-by-Step Guide to Building a PC
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274745-31-step-step-g...
July 9, 2010 4:56:52 PM

If you did not already try installing with the supplied drivers, you might want to revert.

Go to newegg and "read all reviews" / sorted "worst first" ... There could be some diver issues that other owners have reported.

Do this for mb/gpu RAM by exact part#. Read all reviews that have 4 or less "eggs".

= Al =
July 9, 2010 5:26:22 PM

I set the RAM-volt to 1.55, on the X58-setup, and it looks like it is stabile! But I will run some test to be sure. ;) 
July 9, 2010 6:15:25 PM

So ... what (by order of statistical likelyhood), could cause a (any) system to lock up (freeze) ??

(1) sw/firmware config (drivers and BIOS settings).
(2) Flakey RAM modules / ** INADEQUATE RAM VOLTAGES AND/OR TIMING ENTRIES **
Or ... Improperly seated ram modules or (unlikely), a bad RAM slot.
(3) A cheap or faulty case (or case switches/connectors) OR misplaced mb-stand0ffs, which are causing intermittent grounding or shorts. (prolly not, tho).
(4) A bad PSU or a too-small PSU or bad local power quality (sounds like NOT, tho)
(5) Poor/faulty/contaminated/unseated CPU thermal junction (COMMON with new sys).

>>>>>>>>>>>> I am going to go with #2 ... <<<<<<<<<<

July 9, 2010 8:25:50 PM

Okay... I used the system for three hourse whitout any problem. Then I deside to run an Intel Brun test, and after the first run the computer froze again... :( 
July 9, 2010 9:59:09 PM

Increase voltage by a (very) little bit more ... watch your temps and stability ... repeat.

wash ... rinse ... repeat.

Also ... see how the other systems respond to the same treatment ... You can sometimes boost stability by swapping/rotating RAM, between slots and systems (where all timings in the same system are identical).

It would seem you are on the right track ... at the moment ... keep tweakin' and don't get too ambitious, all at once ... small increments. ... test ... repeat.

SAVE BEFORE/UPON EXITING BIOS (each change to settings).

= Al =


= Al =
July 11, 2010 9:41:47 AM

YearH! The System2 computers are stable now. It was not a RAM problem, but a driver problem. So I reinstalled W7 and downloaded the latest from Zotac's website, and now they work perfectly. :D 
July 12, 2010 2:09:07 PM


Guess it was #1, after all ... details, on the drivers ?

I would like to "document" any final solutions, for the sake of "others".


1) sw/firmware config (drivers and BIOS settings).
(2) Flakey RAM modules / ** INADEQUATE RAM VOLTAGES AND/OR TIMING ENTRIES **
Or ... Improperly seated ram modules or (unlikely), a bad RAM slot.
(3) A cheap or faulty case (or case switches/connectors) OR misplaced mb-stand0ffs, which are causing intermittent grounding or shorts. (prolly not, tho).
(4) A bad PSU or a too-small PSU or bad local power quality (sounds like NOT, tho)
(5) Poor/faulty/contaminated/unseated CPU thermal junction (COMMON with new sys).

!