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Decision Time - HP or DELL??

Last response: in Laptops & Notebooks
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November 3, 2004 10:42:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Hello -

I have been looking for laptops for a while now. I have not been able
to decide between the dv1000 and the inspiron 8600. Below are the
configuration and their price. I have not read lot of reviews about
the HP. Can anyone plz provide me with some input as to which would be
a better deal? how are the dell's?
Plz anyone, Thanks.

Cheers,
Guru.

--- HP dv1000 --- Price: $1050 with all rebates
Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home
Pentium M Processor 710 (1.4 GHz)
Display 14.0" WXGA Widescreen (1280x768)
Graphics Card Intel(R) Extreme Graphics designed for Pentium(R)
Memory 512MB DDR SDRAM (2x256MB)
Hard Drive 60GB 4200 RPM
DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive
Networking Intel(R) Pro/Wireless 2200 802.11BG WLAN
Productivity Software Microsoft(R) Works/Money
Primary Battery 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery


--- Dell Inspiron 8600 --- Price: $1082 with all rebates
Pentium® M Processor 710(1.40GHz/400MHz FSB) 15.4in WXGA
Microsoft® Windows® Xp Home
Memory 512MB DDR SDRAM
Video Card 64MB DDR NVIDIA® GeForce
Hard Drive 40GB
Power Adapter AC adapter - 65w, 19.5v
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0
24X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive with Sonic RecordNow 24XCDVP
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200 Internal Wireless (802.11 b/g, 54Mbp)
WordPerfect® ICOREL
Digital Music Dell Jukebox
Primary Battery 72 WHr
Services and Support Options 1 Year Basic Mail-In Plan
Paint Shop Pro® Trial plus Photo Album
Dell Media Experience

More about : decision time dell

Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 3:50:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

if forced to choose between these
two evils i would go with the dell.



dk




"Gurudev" <udupi_mail@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:795af78a.0411031942.696fd1a5@posting.google.com...
> Hello -
>
> I have been looking for laptops for a while now. I have not been able
> to decide between the dv1000 and the inspiron 8600. Below are the
> configuration and their price. I have not read lot of reviews about
> the HP. Can anyone plz provide me with some input as to which would be
> a better deal? how are the dell's?
> Plz anyone, Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> Guru.
>
> --- HP dv1000 --- Price: $1050 with all rebates
> Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home
> Pentium M Processor 710 (1.4 GHz)
> Display 14.0" WXGA Widescreen (1280x768)
> Graphics Card Intel(R) Extreme Graphics designed for Pentium(R)
> Memory 512MB DDR SDRAM (2x256MB)
> Hard Drive 60GB 4200 RPM
> DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive
> Networking Intel(R) Pro/Wireless 2200 802.11BG WLAN
> Productivity Software Microsoft(R) Works/Money
> Primary Battery 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
>
>
> --- Dell Inspiron 8600 --- Price: $1082 with all rebates
> Pentium® M Processor 710(1.40GHz/400MHz FSB) 15.4in WXGA
> Microsoft® Windows® Xp Home
> Memory 512MB DDR SDRAM
> Video Card 64MB DDR NVIDIA® GeForce
> Hard Drive 40GB
> Power Adapter AC adapter - 65w, 19.5v
> Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
> Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0
> 24X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive with Sonic RecordNow 24XCDVP
> Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200 Internal Wireless (802.11 b/g, 54Mbp)
> WordPerfect® ICOREL
> Digital Music Dell Jukebox
> Primary Battery 72 WHr
> Services and Support Options 1 Year Basic Mail-In Plan
> Paint Shop Pro® Trial plus Photo Album
> Dell Media Experience
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 5:29:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Which do you consider not evil?

--
http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
"Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4189c343$1@news.meer.net...
>
>
> if forced to choose between these
> two evils i would go with the dell.
>
>
>
> dk
>
>
>
>
> "Gurudev" <udupi_mail@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:795af78a.0411031942.696fd1a5@posting.google.com...
> > Hello -
> >
> > I have been looking for laptops for a while now. I have not been able
> > to decide between the dv1000 and the inspiron 8600. Below are the
> > configuration and their price. I have not read lot of reviews about
> > the HP. Can anyone plz provide me with some input as to which would be
> > a better deal? how are the dell's?
> > Plz anyone, Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Guru.
> >
> > --- HP dv1000 --- Price: $1050 with all rebates
> > Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home
> > Pentium M Processor 710 (1.4 GHz)
> > Display 14.0" WXGA Widescreen (1280x768)
> > Graphics Card Intel(R) Extreme Graphics designed for Pentium(R)
> > Memory 512MB DDR SDRAM (2x256MB)
> > Hard Drive 60GB 4200 RPM
> > DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive
> > Networking Intel(R) Pro/Wireless 2200 802.11BG WLAN
> > Productivity Software Microsoft(R) Works/Money
> > Primary Battery 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
> >
> >
> > --- Dell Inspiron 8600 --- Price: $1082 with all rebates
> > Pentium® M Processor 710(1.40GHz/400MHz FSB) 15.4in WXGA
> > Microsoft® Windows® Xp Home
> > Memory 512MB DDR SDRAM
> > Video Card 64MB DDR NVIDIA® GeForce
> > Hard Drive 40GB
> > Power Adapter AC adapter - 65w, 19.5v
> > Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
> > Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0
> > 24X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive with Sonic RecordNow 24XCDVP
> > Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200 Internal Wireless (802.11 b/g, 54Mbp)
> > WordPerfect® ICOREL
> > Digital Music Dell Jukebox
> > Primary Battery 72 WHr
> > Services and Support Options 1 Year Basic Mail-In Plan
> > Paint Shop Pro® Trial plus Photo Album
> > Dell Media Experience
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 1:23:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

IBM Thinkpad?

MB

On 11/04/04 02:29 am Howard Kaikow put fingers to keyboard and launched
the following message into cyberspace:

> Which do you consider not evil?
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 1:54:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Minnie Bannister" <GoonButNotForgotten@NottheBBC.org> wrote in message
news:10okibqtc3klg54@corp.supernews.com...
> IBM Thinkpad?

1, Do Thinkpads have a hidden partition on the C drive?
2. Do Thinkpads come with the OS on a CD or just a recovery CD?
3. How does IBM partition the hard drive? With large drives, it makes sense
to have a bunch of logical drives.
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 2:46:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Sorry, I don't know the answer to any of those questions. I did put a
question mark after my suggestion. It's just that, based on snippets of
information I have picked up here and there, that I would consider
seriously buying a Thinkpad next time around.

But note that there are several different series of Thinkpads: A, X, R,
and T, and perhaps others. The T-series machines have titanium-alloy
cases, so are very robust yet light; and although they come with Windows
preinstalled, they are certified for use with IBM's own far-superior
OS/2 operating system, which, although frequently pronounced dead,
refuses to go away.

MB


On 11/04/04 10:54 am Howard Kaikow put fingers to keyboard and launched
the following message into cyberspace:

>>IBM Thinkpad?

> 1, Do Thinkpads have a hidden partition on the C drive?
> 2. Do Thinkpads come with the OS on a CD or just a recovery CD?
> 3. How does IBM partition the hard drive? With large drives, it makes sense
> to have a bunch of logical drives.
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 5:08:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Minnie Bannister wrote:

> Sorry, I don't know the answer to any of those questions. I did put a
> question mark after my suggestion. It's just that, based on snippets of
> information I have picked up here and there, that I would consider
> seriously buying a Thinkpad next time around.
>
> But note that there are several different series of Thinkpads: A, X, R,
> and T, and perhaps others. The T-series machines have titanium-alloy
> cases, so are very robust yet light; and although they come with Windows
> preinstalled, they are certified for use with IBM's own far-superior
> OS/2 operating system, which, although frequently pronounced dead,
> refuses to go away.

OS/2 runs on anything 386 or later for which drivers are available. Before
you get a Thinkpad to run OS/2, make sure that drivers for everything you
need to use really _are_ available--they aren't for some bits on some
machines.

As to being "far superior", far superior to _what_?

By the way, you need a Software Choice account with IBM to buy OS/2 direct
these days and it's not cheap through that channel. It's no longer
available as a retail product except as part of ecomstation or as old stock
off of ebay.

> MB
>
>
> On 11/04/04 10:54 am Howard Kaikow put fingers to keyboard and launched
> the following message into cyberspace:
>
>>>IBM Thinkpad?
>
>> 1, Do Thinkpads have a hidden partition on the C drive?
>> 2. Do Thinkpads come with the OS on a CD or just a recovery CD?
>> 3. How does IBM partition the hard drive? With large drives, it makes
>> sense to have a bunch of logical drives.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 5:20:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

I would certainly pick the Dell over the HP for the quality of
computer, but beware of the support. The customer service isn't even
close to what it used to be, and isn't what they used to win awards
for years ago. I had placed an order for the new Inspirion 9200
Laptop and I purchased a router with it. All I wanted to do was
change the color of the Quicksnap cover that goes on the laptop and
upgrade my router. You would have thought I was asking for their
first unborn child. I spent all day on the phone with customer
support-which was all accent speaking foreigners from India I assume
(from what I have heard). You can hardly understand them, plus they
don't know what they are doing. They screwed up my order something
fierce for just a couple of simple changes. I was even dinged twice
for my order and ended up with a -$600 balance in my checking account!
If I would have known it was going to be like that I would have never
even tried to make the changes and lived with what I had ordered
initially! After many attempts and much aggravation, I finally reached
an American Dell person named Sandee who fixed all of the days
problems in less than 10 minutes. This is probably more than you
wanted to hear, but I was venting as well as informing. If you are
somewhat knowledgeable with computers and can live without the Dell
support, go with the Dell. I almost canceled my order in it's entirity
just because I was getting so fed up! OK thanks for listening. This
is just an opinion of course...Goodbye!
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 5:50:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Here is a follow up to my other post in this category...Click or copy
this to your web browser. http://www.illwillpress.com/tech.html That
is exactly what I was going through!
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 9:25:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Howard Kaikow wrote:

> 1, Do Thinkpads have a hidden partition on the C drive?

Yes (can be removed easily)

> 2. Do Thinkpads come with the OS on a CD or just a recovery CD?

A recovery CD can be ordered for free during the warranty period

> 3. How does IBM partition the hard drive?

One small hidden restore partition, and a big single partition for Windows
and stuff...

> With large drives, it makes
> sense to have a bunch of logical drives.

Not really. Partitioning is something that can be discussed endlessly, but
generally with modern file systems like NTFS partitioning doesn't make any
sense, especially not on a notebook with a single OS.

Benjamin
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 9:25:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:2uv6vmF2ektm7U1@uni-berlin.de...
> > With large drives, it makes
> > sense to have a bunch of logical drives.
>
> Not really. Partitioning is something that can be discussed endlessly, but
> generally with modern file systems like NTFS partitioning doesn't make any
> sense, especially not on a notebook with a single OS.

Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems, and proper file
organization (to faciltate separation of church and state, ooops, I mean
system programs and everything else).
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 10:19:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Howard Kaikow wrote:

>> Not really. Partitioning is something that can be discussed
>> endlessly, but generally with modern file systems like NTFS
>> partitioning doesn't make any sense, especially not on a notebook
>> with a single OS.
>
> Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,

Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.

> and proper file
> organization (to faciltate separation of church and state, ooops, I
> mean system programs and everything else).

This can also be done by using folders, and much more comfortable.
Partitions often have the property to be either too big (wasted space) or
too small, and in case of a single OS system with a current Windows totally
unnecessary. And in a case of crash it doesn't necessarily safe Your data,
and if Your data is important for You a _real_ backup is still mandatory...

Benjamin
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 10:19:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert@gmx.de> wrote:
>Howard Kaikow wrote:
>> Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,

>Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.

IMHO, a single OS partition with a separate data partition is very
helpful for backups. You can back up the (relatively small) system
partition with all the user's programs (say) monthly using Ghost, and
the data files and such can be kept in sync with something like
Directory Sync without wasting the time/bandwidth/space on backing up
the whole system. [I like having a fixed-size 4G swap-file partition
too, but that's another rathole.]
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 10:19:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Benjamin Gawert wrote:

> Howard Kaikow wrote:
>
>>> Not really. Partitioning is something that can be discussed
>>> endlessly, but generally with modern file systems like NTFS
>>> partitioning doesn't make any sense, especially not on a notebook
>>> with a single OS.
>>
>> Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,
>
> Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.
>
>> and proper file
>> organization (to faciltate separation of church and state, ooops, I
>> mean system programs and everything else).
>
> This can also be done by using folders, and much more comfortable.
> Partitions often have the property to be either too big (wasted space) or
> too small, and in case of a single OS system with a current Windows
> totally unnecessary. And in a case of crash it doesn't necessarily safe
> Your data, and if Your data is important for You a _real_ backup is still
> mandatory...

Not quite. Nice thing about data and OS on separate partitions is that you
can wipe the OS completely without disturbing the data.

> Benjamin

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 10:19:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:2uva63F2e6mraU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Howard Kaikow wrote:
>
> >> Not really. Partitioning is something that can be discussed
> >> endlessly, but generally with modern file systems like NTFS
> >> partitioning doesn't make any sense, especially not on a notebook
> >> with a single OS.
> >
> > Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,
>
> Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.
>
> > and proper file
> > organization (to faciltate separation of church and state, ooops, I
> > mean system programs and everything else).
>
> This can also be done by using folders, and much more comfortable.
> Partitions often have the property to be either too big (wasted space) or
> too small, and in case of a single OS system with a current Windows
totally
> unnecessary. And in a case of crash it doesn't necessarily safe Your data,
> and if Your data is important for You a _real_ backup is still
mandatory...

The number of OS is irrelevant to whether the media is partitioned for
easeganizing files.
It's easy enough to fake partitions by creating a folder that is the
pseudo-root of a drive and then using that folder instead of a drive
letter. Indeed, that is how I recover unused space in partitions allocated
to OS that are little changed/used.

However, there's still software that wants us to specify drive letters for
things, and for those purposes, multiple partitions are necessary.
In any case, that's all irrelevant to my question regarding partitions.
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 10:19:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cmdvvn025qo@news4.newsguy.com...
> Benjamin Gawert wrote:
>
> > Howard Kaikow wrote:
> >
> >>> Not really. Partitioning is something that can be discussed
> >>> endlessly, but generally with modern file systems like NTFS
> >>> partitioning doesn't make any sense, especially not on a notebook
> >>> with a single OS.
> >>
> >> Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,
> >
> > Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.
> >
> >> and proper file
> >> organization (to faciltate separation of church and state, ooops, I
> >> mean system programs and everything else).
> >
> > This can also be done by using folders, and much more comfortable.
> > Partitions often have the property to be either too big (wasted space)
or
> > too small, and in case of a single OS system with a current Windows
> > totally unnecessary. And in a case of crash it doesn't necessarily safe
> > Your data, and if Your data is important for You a _real_ backup is
still
> > mandatory...
>
> Not quite. Nice thing about data and OS on separate partitions is that
you
> can wipe the OS completely without disturbing the data.
>
It's not quite that easy, either, though. Windows programs drop so much
info into the system folders, that it's next to impossible to actually wipe
the system drive without losing something important...unless you're *very*
careful.

For instance, the default directory for Outlook Express posts is in the
Windows folder. Delete that, and you lose every email ever saved. Been
there. Done that. Fortunately I made backups of the entire partition
before deleting it.

If one is to follow the advice above, one must be very conscious of where
the OS has things stored. The storage directory for OE, for example can be
changed, but that option is buried in an obscure menu entry. You must first
be aware, and then manually change it.

Another caveat is that nearly *every* piece of software will, by default,
install itself into the C:\Program Files folder. If C: is your system
drive, you need to make it big enough for all the files--for every piece of
software--that you anticipate loading. On 'most' software, you can change
the default to D: or whatever; but some software does not allow this. Even
if you install everything to D:, enough 'stuff' will be dropped into the
system file folders, that you will still need to reinstall every piece of
software after wiping the system files. Otherwise, your applications will
not work...or will not work correctly.

Also, you *must* change the swapfile to a different drive, virtual or
otherwise; unless you've made your system partition large enough....

jak

> > Benjamin
>
> --
> --John
> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 10:19:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

<William P.N. Smith> wrote in message
news:1ftko01p22gv0ub70qh7io3elifg4iup6a@4ax.com...
> "Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert@gmx.de> wrote:
> >Howard Kaikow wrote:
> >> Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,
>
> >Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.
>
> IMHO, a single OS partition with a separate data partition is very
> helpful for backups. You can back up the (relatively small) system
> partition with all the user's programs (say) monthly using Ghost, and
> the data files and such can be kept in sync with something like
> Directory Sync without wasting the time/bandwidth/space on backing up
> the whole system. [I like having a fixed-size 4G swap-file partition
> too, but that's another rathole.]

Do not waste space on swap files.

See http://www.standards.com/index.html?PageFileUsageMonito....
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 10:50:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Howard Kaikow wrote:

> <William P.N. Smith> wrote in message
> news:1ftko01p22gv0ub70qh7io3elifg4iup6a@4ax.com...
>> "Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert@gmx.de> wrote:
>> >Howard Kaikow wrote:
>> >> Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,
>>
>> >Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.
>>
>> IMHO, a single OS partition with a separate data partition is very
>> helpful for backups. You can back up the (relatively small) system
>> partition with all the user's programs (say) monthly using Ghost, and
>> the data files and such can be kept in sync with something like
>> Directory Sync without wasting the time/bandwidth/space on backing up
>> the whole system. [I like having a fixed-size 4G swap-file partition
>> too, but that's another rathole.]
>
> Do not waste space on swap files.
>
> See http://www.standards.com/index.html?PageFileUsageMonito....

Come on, with quarter terabyte drives in the mid-market, how frugal do you
need to be?

By the way, Windows has a utility that will report page file usage built in.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 11:12:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

jakdedert wrote:

>
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:cmdvvn025qo@news4.newsguy.com...
>> Benjamin Gawert wrote:
>>
>> > Howard Kaikow wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Not really. Partitioning is something that can be discussed
>> >>> endlessly, but generally with modern file systems like NTFS
>> >>> partitioning doesn't make any sense, especially not on a notebook
>> >>> with a single OS.
>> >>
>> >> Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,
>> >
>> > Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.
>> >
>> >> and proper file
>> >> organization (to faciltate separation of church and state, ooops, I
>> >> mean system programs and everything else).
>> >
>> > This can also be done by using folders, and much more comfortable.
>> > Partitions often have the property to be either too big (wasted space)
> or
>> > too small, and in case of a single OS system with a current Windows
>> > totally unnecessary. And in a case of crash it doesn't necessarily safe
>> > Your data, and if Your data is important for You a _real_ backup is
> still
>> > mandatory...
>>
>> Not quite. Nice thing about data and OS on separate partitions is that
> you
>> can wipe the OS completely without disturbing the data.
>>
> It's not quite that easy, either, though. Windows programs drop so much
> info into the system folders, that it's next to impossible to actually
> wipe the system drive without losing something important...unless you're
> *very* careful.

Well, actually, I can toss the whole damned computer in the trash and not
lose anything important because on my system anything _important_ lives on
a dedicated server. On its own drive--all the apps are on a separate
mirrored pair, and before you try to dazzle me with your expertise
concerning Windows servers it's not a Windows server. And I don't see any
need to be "*very* careful". Anything that is important I save to the
server and load from the server, end of story.

If I tossed my XP box I would lose the current state of Railroad Tycoon 3,
and the list of solitaire variants that I like, but I don't consider that
kind of thing to be "important".

> For instance, the default directory for Outlook Express posts is in the
> Windows folder. Delete that, and you lose every email ever saved. Been
> there. Done that. Fortunately I made backups of the entire partition
> before deleting it.

My email all goes on the server as well--I don't use Outlook Express for
anything. But if you care about your email you should be specifying where
it is saved. Or using a server-based mail program.

> If one is to follow the advice above, one must be very conscious of where
> the OS has things stored. The storage directory for OE, for example can
> be
> changed, but that option is buried in an obscure menu entry. You must
> first be aware, and then manually change it.

First, Options/Maintenance/Store Folder is hardly "obscure" and second, on
my system, on which Outlook Express has never before been opened, let alone
configured in any way, the default folder was "C:\Documents and
Settings\(login name elided)\Local Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{B3D57A5F-D671-410A-8311-6EE0F912C76A}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express", NOT "the Windows folder".

> Another caveat is that nearly *every* piece of software will, by default,
> install itself into the C:\Program Files folder.

So what? When you reinstall Windows you take it as a given that you have to
reinstall the applications. Assuming of course that you're using Windows,
which everyone isn't.

> If C: is your system
> drive, you need to make it big enough for all the files--for every piece
> of
> software--that you anticipate loading.

So? With 120 gig drives dropping out of the bottom of the market this is
hardly any kind of hardship.

> On 'most' software, you can change
> the default to D: or whatever; but some software does not allow this.
> Even if you install everything to D:, enough 'stuff' will be dropped into
> the system file folders, that you will still need to reinstall every piece
> of
> software after wiping the system files. Otherwise, your applications will
> not work...or will not work correctly.

With Windows you have to reinstall it all to get the registry settings back
so again this is hardly a hardship and is in fact a rather pointless
exercise.

> Also, you *must* change the swapfile to a different drive, virtual or
> otherwise; unless you've made your system partition large enough....

Oh, what a huge burden.

It's clear that you don't grasp the concept of "software" vs "data". The
idea is that you can trash _all_ of the software on the system, the OS, the
applications, everything, and not lose the information on which it
operates.

At one time 3 partitions made sense, one for the OS, one for the apps, and
one for the data, and on a Unix or Novell box that still makes sense, but
not on a Windows box.

But the gist of your argument seems to be that one should not partition
because one is too stupid or too lazy to then make sure that one's data
does in fact go to the data partition.

>
> jak
>
>> > Benjamin
>>
>> --
>> --John
>> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
>> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 11:19:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

> IMHO, a single OS partition with a separate data partition is very
> helpful for backups. You can back up the (relatively small) system
> partition with all the user's programs (say) monthly using Ghost, and
> the data files and such can be kept in sync with something like
> Directory Sync without wasting the time/bandwidth/space on backing up
> the whole system.

Every somewhat useable backup program allows to backup either the whole disk
or certain directories. I for example make a monthly full backup and a
weekly user data backup on a tape drive (DLT) or via network to a server.
For the purposes of most users a external USB or Firewire disk would also
suit the purpose for backing up.

I can't see how partitioning should help, especially with todays data sizes
backups on multiple CD-R or DVD+-R(W) usually aren't really that
practical...

Benjamin
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 4, 2004 11:59:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

J. Clarke wrote:
> Benjamin Gawert wrote:
>
>
>>Howard Kaikow wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Not really. Partitioning is something that can be discussed
>>>>endlessly, but generally with modern file systems like NTFS
>>>>partitioning doesn't make any sense, especially not on a notebook
>>>>with a single OS.
>>>
>>>Partitioning is essential for multiboot systems,
>>
>>Yes, for multiboot. Not for a single OS.
>>
>>
>>> and proper file
>>>organization (to faciltate separation of church and state, ooops, I
>>>mean system programs and everything else).
>>
>>This can also be done by using folders, and much more comfortable.
>>Partitions often have the property to be either too big (wasted space) or
>>too small, and in case of a single OS system with a current Windows
>>totally unnecessary. And in a case of crash it doesn't necessarily safe
>>Your data, and if Your data is important for You a _real_ backup is still
>>mandatory...
>
>
> Not quite. Nice thing about data and OS on separate partitions is that you
> can wipe the OS completely without disturbing the data.

Exactly. Personally, I generally make C; and D: ... D: is about 30% of
the drive. Then :-

1: I change the "My Documents" location to something like D:\data
2: Put OS install files on the D: drive (very handy when your OS install
CD gets scratched, or the CD drive goes a bit flaky (as seems to happen
with laptops quite a bit.
3: Put a full set of device driver installers in e.g. d:\drivers.

This regime has served me well for many years, and proved its worth on
many occasions.
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 5, 2004 1:38:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert@gmx.de> wrote:
[I wrote]
>> IMHO, a single OS partition with a separate data partition is very
>> helpful for backups. You can back up the (relatively small) system
>> partition with all the user's programs (say) monthly using Ghost, and
>> the data files and such can be kept in sync with something like
>> Directory Sync without wasting the time/bandwidth/space on backing up
>> the whole system.
>
>Every somewhat useable backup program allows to backup either the whole disk
>or certain directories.

Even if that worked under Windows, how would I select the directories
to back up? I much prefer Ghost images, as I know they include
absolutely everything I need to get my OS partition back up and
running in something like 1/2 hour.

>I can't see how partitioning should help, especially with todays data sizes
>backups on multiple CD-R or DVD+-R(W) usually aren't really that
>practical...

I back up to Big Disks on my file servers.
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 5, 2004 5:45:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cmejat012c2@news1.newsguy.com...
> > Do not waste space on swap files.
> >
> > See http://www.standards.com/index.html?PageFileUsageMonito....
>
> Come on, with quarter terabyte drives in the mid-market, how frugal do you
> need to be?
>
> By the way, Windows has a utility that will report page file usage built
in.

Not in Win 2000.
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 5, 2004 8:05:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Howard Kaikow wrote:

> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:cmejat012c2@news1.newsguy.com...
>> > Do not waste space on swap files.
>> >
>> > See http://www.standards.com/index.html?PageFileUsageMonito....
>>
>> Come on, with quarter terabyte drives in the mid-market, how frugal do
>> you need to be?
>>
>> By the way, Windows has a utility that will report page file usage built
> in.
>
> Not in Win 2000.

Pity you didn't try going to Start/Settings/Control Panel/Administrative
Tools/Performance before you wasted your time reinventing the wheel.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 5, 2004 2:30:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cmfknj02254@news3.newsguy.com...

> Pity you didn't try going to Start/Settings/Control Panel/Administrative
> Tools/Performance before you wasted your time reinventing the wheel.

I see no tool for reporting what my code reports.
In any case, my wheel would be easier to use.
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 5, 2004 7:38:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Howard Kaikow wrote:

> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:cmfknj02254@news3.newsguy.com...
>
>> Pity you didn't try going to Start/Settings/Control Panel/Administrative
>> Tools/Performance before you wasted your time reinventing the wheel.
>
> I see no tool for reporting what my code reports.

Look harder. There are numerous properties that can be monitored, logged,
flagged, alarmed, and otherwise massaged.

> In any case, my wheel would be easier to use.

But also very limited in what it does.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 6, 2004 3:43:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:cmgt540158a@news3.newsguy.com...
> > In any case, my wheel would be easier to use.
>
> But also very limited in what it does.

Obviously intentional.
Anonymous
a b α HP
a b D Laptop
November 7, 2004 3:08:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"Martin Slaney" <slaz@dsl.NIET_SPAMpipex.com> wrote in message

> Exactly. Personally, I generally make C; and D: ... D: is about 30% of
> the drive. Then :-
>
> 1: I change the "My Documents" location to something like D:\data
> 2: Put OS install files on the D: drive (very handy when your OS install
> CD gets scratched, or the CD drive goes a bit flaky (as seems to happen
> with laptops quite a bit.
> 3: Put a full set of device driver installers in e.g. d:\drivers.
>
> This regime has served me well for many years, and proved its worth on
> many occasions.

This is good advice. I have been setting up laptops and desktops this way
for some time. It works well.
!