Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question
Closed

Advice needed: building my own PC

Last response: in Systems
Share
July 12, 2010 10:56:47 AM

Haven't done this in a while, need advice on what's the best bang for the buck and what works well together.

Looking to spend under 1k in total. I plan to use the PC mostly for low end gaming (not really a fan of all the super new stuff) and software development (so plenty of RAM and multiple cores would probably be helpful). I already got some parts that I see no reason to replace, and I am more than capable of putting all this stuff together myself.

What I already have and don't feel like replacing:

- Flatscreen
- Keyboard, Mouse
- Speaker system
- DVD Writer
- Hard drives (got 1 TB, more than enough for me)

What I think I need:

- Mainboard
- Soundcard, Networkcard - these probably come built in on any mainboard in reasonable quality for what I need
- RAM
- CPU
- GFX Card(s)
- Fans
- Case (nothing too big, this can be really cheap as it's just going to disappear somewhere near my feet anyways)
- PSU
- Possibly a small, fast HDD for use as boot/system/swap drive.

Do you think I missed anything ? What would you recommend as parts ? Can you explain your recommendations ?

More about : advice needed building

July 12, 2010 1:35:43 PM

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core for $194.99 Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



Thermaltake Frio Overclocking-Ready Intel Core i7 (six-core ready) & i5 Compatible Five 8mm Heatpipes Dual 120mm Fans Intel & AMD Universal CPU Cooler CLP0564 for $59.99 $2.99 Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



MSI P55A-G55 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX for $124.99 $7.56 Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


G.SKILL ECO Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) for $104.99 Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

G.SKILL ECO Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) for $104.99 Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC for $167.00 -$10 after mail in rebate Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



MSI N240GT-MD1G/D5 GeForce GT 240 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready for $89.99 -$30 after mail in rebate Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ,comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm Fan, 1x Rear 120mm Fan, option Fans-2x Side 120mm Fan 2.5” SSD/HDD adapter included for $39.99 $9.99 Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC for $69.99 $9.65 Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



Total: $987.11 including shipping


i chose the Core i5 750 instead of Core i7 930 because the processor, motherboard and memory on Core i5 750 is significantly cheaper
also the hyperthreading has very little performance impact on applications as you can see here
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2009/09/08/intel-...



to get the most bang for the buck on core i5 750, i recommend you to overclock the processor to 4Ghz at max, dont pass 4ghz or else you will face massive power consumption increase!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i5-750-overclo...



also an overclock Core i5 750 to 4Ghz has massive performance increase as you can see here
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/03/03/overcl...
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/03/03/overcl...
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/03/03/overcl...



i picked the Thermaltake Frio because according to the test of frostytech, it is one of the best coolers on the market and you don't need to run it at high fan speed to achieve low temperatures and will result in a very quit operation which is very important for work computers. this cpu cooler will cool well your overclocked Core i5 750. also the look of the cpu cooler is very sick
http://frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2523&pa...



i picked the msi motherboard because it is priced very reasonable. it has USB 3, SATA 6, has a very good bios for overclocking, has plenty of expansion slots, has good motherboard layout, has 2 PCI-E 2.0 8x 8x so you can do SLI or Crossfire just in case if you want to do so in future and last but not the least the looks! :D 


you said you need lots of ram so i picked 2 sets of Gskill Eco 4GB(2x2GB) ram. it is a very good ram, it has already low latency (C7), is set to1600Mhz ,has considerable low voltage(1.35) which will translate to low power consumption, cooler and more overclocking headroom. this ram is also a very good overclocker and according to this review, they manage to overclock this memory to 1946MHz 6-9-6-24 @ 1.55V
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/gskill_eco/3.ht...



i picked the OCZ vertex 2 because you said you need a fast drive, the drive i posted delivers PERFORMANCE, it will eat any 10,000RPM drives any day! it is one of the fastest SSD available on the market to day












you said you will only play games in low end so i picked a very power efficient card that delivers performance, has good software/driver/game support. this card can play modern games @high quality and still achieve playable framerates










also for the performance it delivers, the power consumption is AMAZING





going cheap doesn't mean crap, the power supply i picked is one of the most efficient power supply on the market today, it has
-virtually non existing ripple and noise,
-has a real-world efficiency of 82.4% and 86.5%
-can sustain an 588W overload and still achieve an efficiency of 81.7%
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Seasonic-S12II-B...

and according to this old test, it even manage to beat Corsair HX 620 in terms of efficiency
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2162&p...


also 520w is plenty enough for your needs, according to this test a high end computer(Core i7 920 + GTX 260) when stress test(PRIME 95 + Furmark) both running at the same time has a maximum power consumption of 371w, in real life you wont even get close to that power consumption even when you overclock the core i5 to 4Ghz
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/system-w...


and last but not the least i picked that case because for the price, its a steal! what can you ask for? tool less design, has plenty of fans, all black (interior and exterior), has dust filters, has anti vibration for the psu, has 2.5 inch to 3.5inch adapter for the ssd
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 12, 2010 2:02:58 PM

Fill out form int he sticky, link in my sig.

Resolution you're gaming at, and Country you're in are kinda important.

Anytime you consider an expensive HSF, bear in mind that it's a 2-3x the money for at most a 6 C temp difference. In the case of a Frio vs a Hyper 212 Plus, it's 2x the money for a 2.4C temp difference.

@raclimja, that PSU is not xfire capable if OP decides he wants to go that route in the future.

In addition, in a build whose primary use is low end gaming, the inclusion of an SSD in a $1k build a few months before a major price drop across the board, isn't a good idea.

Score
0
Related resources
July 12, 2010 2:31:14 PM

banthracis said:
Fill out form int he sticky, link in my sig.

Resolution you're gaming at, and Country you're in are kinda important.

he said he is playing low end games, the card i picked(gt 240 1gb GDDR5) is more that good enough for his needs, it can even play demanding games at high quality, also being a work computer, power consumption and good driver/software support is a critical thing and gt 240 delivers that exactly


Quote:
Anytime you consider an expensive HSF, bear in mind that it's a 2-3x the money for at most a 6 C temp difference. In the case of a Frio vs a Hyper 212 Plus, it's 2x the money for a 2.4C temp difference.


uhhhm, according to newegg



Thermaltake Frio Overclocking-Ready Intel Core i7 (six-core ready) & i5 Compatible Five 8mm Heatpipes Dual 120mm Fans Intel & AMD Universal CPU Cooler CLP0564 for $59.99 $2.99 Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU Cooler for $49.99 $7.56 Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



price difference: $20.55 including shipping


based on my knowledge on mathematics a $20.55 dollars price difference is far from 2x or even 3x the price, also being a work computer, noise is a very big concern and thermaltake Frio delivers that exactly, it doesn't need to ran at high speed fan to achieve low temperature


Quote:

@raclimja, that PSU is not xfire capable if OP decides he wants to go that route in the future.



the graphics card that i included is nvidia so the term should be SLI
back to topic
as for the power consumption concerns, gt 240 is a very efficient card and according to test conducted by anandtech, a system consisting of Core i7 920 @ 3.33Ghz at maximum load consumes only 172w(total power consumption)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2906/4
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2906/14



doing SLI on that graphics card wont mean double the total power consumption


also take note the power supply i recommend can sustain a 588W overload and still achieve an efficiency of 81.7%
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Seasonic-S12II-B...


with that capability, i bet it can even power a Core i7 920 + GTX 295 that has a maximum load of 502.8w under stress(PRIME 95 + Furmark) both running at the same time
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/system-w...



Quote:
In addition, in a build whose primary use is low end gaming, the inclusion of an SSD in a $1k build a few months before a major price drop across the board, isn't a good idea.



the op said he already bought his other components, its his work computer, i think he needs to complete this build ASAP
also there is no confirmation on when exactly the intel 25nm NAND(which should double the current capacity at the same price) will be available to the market
all the things coming out is just pure speculations
Score
0
July 12, 2010 2:37:23 PM

how many different i5's are there
Score
0
July 12, 2010 7:07:07 PM

Wow, thanks for these super details replies, especially raclimja. Your post was MUCH more than I expected.

Noise is not so much an issue (my first PC was an 8086 so I've grown accustomed to the typical PC noise over the years), nor is temp probably since I don't plan to do much if any overclocking. Dirt however is, if any of you have an idea for that - due to work conditions and me being a chain smoker, there is always a lot of dust near the PC despite very frequent vacuuming, and my old PC I had to open almost every month to scrub the fans with an old toothbrush because they clog so fast.

First, sorry for not posting all the info I should have, so here goes:

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: next few days, my old PC has taken some heat damage it seems and is circeling the drain

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Surfing the Internets, playing games (but probably not super new stuff, I'm more of an old school guy), software development (probably going to use virtual machines a lot, so plenty of RAM and cores sound like a good idea)

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Never ordered hardware over the internet before so no preference

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: Germany (the 1,000 price limit was still in USD, I figured it'd be easier if people didn't have to convert to Euros)

PARTS PREFERENCES: None, haven't bought hardware in too long to tell one from the other really

OVERCLOCKING: Probably not, I intend for this PC to last me many, many years (my old one is a P4 for which the last BIOS update was made in 2003), so I'd rather sacrifice a few % of the speed in lieu of life time. If there is anything so safe that you'd still recommend it, I'll listen, but I'm too much of a chicken to tinker with these things too much

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Never even heard either term so no idea

MONITOR RESOLUTION: Currently 1366x768, but I may upgrade to a better monitor eventually (with with the same ratio most likely)

Parts I already have: don't have the models, but I doubt any of them matter much to the system build. If I'm mistaken, let me know, I'll open up the box and look

--------
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 12, 2010 9:01:39 PM

I'm going to agree with banthracis that the SSD is probably unnecessary right now...you have to skimp too much on other components in a $1k build. Right now, a good 500 GB platter 7200 rpm drive should be fine for a boot drive.

And @raclimja, no need to get testy about SLI vs. CrossFire. The terms are basically interchangeable, as they are the same technology, just different brands. Using one or the other (rather than both) is easier than writing SLI/CrossFire or "multi-gpu technology" . (Of course, I usually type it all out, but I'm a fast typist. Other people may not be, or may not care.) Not to mention, it's not the load on the PSU that's the concern. It's the fact that it only has 2 PCI-E connectors.

Rather than a GT 240, I'd look at getting either an ATI 5770 or a new nVidia 460. Both of these cards have DX11, and offer better performance. At your resolution, either of those cards should be able to max out pretty much anything, and will still perform respectably if you upgrade your monitor.

@OP - Continuing in this vein, SLI/CrossFire are nVidia & ATI's (respecitvely) multi-GPU solutions which allow you team multiple GPUs together for improved performance. 2 GPUs isn't going to be 200% of the performance of 1 GPU however, as the scaling isn't perfect. 150-175% is more likely. Many builders think it worthwhile to spend the extra money on an SLI/CrossFire capable PSU & motherboard in case they need to expand in the future.

No matter what power supply you select, make sure that it has Active PFC and is at least 80+ certified. 80+ Bronze/Silver/Gold are even better, but not truly necessary. Something along the lines of this Antec TP 650 would be a reasonable choice. It has the ability to power dual graphics cards if you need that in the future, and it has Active PFC as well as being 80+ Bronze certified.

Re: HSFs - although the poster is in Germany, and newegg is useless for pricing, the Hyper 212+ can be had for $30 at amazon.com. Its price at newegg doubled about a month ago. The price it used to be at is still available at most other online retailers.

The i5-750 is a great processor. Alternatively, you could go with an AMD Phenom II X4 and save a little bit vs. an Intel solution.
Score
0
July 13, 2010 3:41:45 AM

coldsleep said:
I'm going to agree with banthracis that the SSD is probably unnecessary right now...you have to skimp too much on other components in a $1k build. Right now, a good 500 GB platter 7200 rpm drive should be fine for a boot drive.




the op said his computer broke up and he needs a replacement ASAP,

to the op: if you can live with an HDD and can wait for months to wait for Intel 25nm NAND to be released on the market(the chip that is supposed to double the current capacity of the same price), i suggest you wait for it BUT if you need an immediate solution, the technology is available right now OCZ Vertex 2 is a very good drive that offers exellent performance and reliability

since this will be your work computer, i bet you will run multiple programs at the same time 24/7.

and in business time is gold, just to give you an idea of how much better an ssd is and how it can affect your daily working environment
a comparison of fastest HDD(10k RPM vs SSD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Jz7IMwBt4

Quote:
And @raclimja, no need to get testy about SLI vs. CrossFire. The terms are basically interchangeable, as they are the same technology, just different brands. Using one or the other (rather than both) is easier than writing SLI/CrossFire or "multi-gpu technology" . (Of course, I usually type it all out, but I'm a fast typist. Other people may not be, or may not care.) Not to mention, it's not the load on the PSU that's the concern. It's the fact that it only has 2 PCI-E connectors.



they are not the same technology


in Crossfire you can mix cards, you can run a 5850/5830 or 5850/5870 or 5770/5750


where areas in SLI you cannot mix cards, you can only run the same card GTX 470/GTX 470 or GTX 480/GTX 480 or GTX 460/GTX 460


also Nvidia cards tends to scales/gains more performance from SLI than crossfire


Quote:
Rather than a GT 240, I'd look at getting either an ATI 5770 or a new nVidia 460. Both of these cards have DX11, and offer better performance. At your resolution, either of those cards should be able to max out pretty much anything, and will still perform respectably if you upgrade your monitor.



although 5770 and GTX 460 is a nice graphics card, the added massive power consumption and price difference is to much

just for a reference(since i cant find a exact same system comparing the power consumption of GT 240 vs 5770 vs GTX 460, this is the closest thing i can get)


GT 240 power consumption


GTX 460 and 5770



as you can see by upgrading to either 5770 or GTX 460, your looking at adding power consumption of approximately 64w for 5770 and a massive 117w for GTX 460. for a work computer that cost will add up each day

also since the op's monitor has only a maximum resolution of 1366x768, any performance benefits from 5770 or GTX 460 will be neglected, GT 240 is more than enough for the performance needs for his build

Quote:
@OP - Continuing in this vein, SLI/CrossFire are nVidia & ATI's (respecitvely) multi-GPU solutions which allow you team multiple GPUs together for improved performance. 2 GPUs isn't going to be 200% of the performance of 1 GPU however, as the scaling isn't perfect. 150-175% is more likely. Many builders think it worthwhile to spend the extra money on an SLI/CrossFire capable PSU & motherboard in case they need to expand in the future.



the motherboard and PSU i posted is more than good enough for use with any modern graphics card, also i do not recommend using SLI or Crossfire because there is a possibility of micro-stuttering.



also by the time the GT 240 performance is not good enough, cheaper, cooler, faster, more advance technology will be available for the same price so there is no reason to shell out to much money on video card since next refresh is coming out every 6months and the saved money can be used to buy a BNEW graphics card



Quote:
No matter what power supply you select, make sure that it has Active PFC and is at least 80+ certified. 80+ Bronze/Silver/Gold are even better, but not truly necessary. Something along the lines of this Antec TP 650 would be a reasonable choice. It has the ability to power dual graphics cards if you need that in the future, and it has Active PFC as well as being 80+ Bronze certified.



most Antec and Corsair power supply is just a rebranded Seasonic PSU


Quote:
Re: HSFs - although the poster is in Germany, and newegg is useless for pricing, the Hyper 212+ can be had for $30 at amazon.com. Its price at newegg doubled about a month ago. The price it used to be at is still available at most other online retailers.




if noise is not a concern and hyper 212+ can be have for 1/2 the price, why not :p 


Quote:
The i5-750 is a great processor. Alternatively, you could go with an AMD Phenom II X4 and save a little bit vs. an Intel solution.



i would advice against getting a Phenom II X4 for software development stuff because an overclocked Core i5 750 will destroy any Phenom


to the OP: if your will not overclock, you dont need an after-market cooler and get this instead of Core i5 750



AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Thuban 2.8GHz 6 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Six-Core for $199.99 Free Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


ASRock 870 EXTREME3 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX for $89.99 Free Shipping*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total: $289.98 including shipping


if your gonna overclock, do not get an AMD setup, i repeat DO NO GET AMD setup

power consumption increase on AMD is MASSIVE when overclocked

an overclocked Core i5 750 4Ghz will be faster than both Phenom II X4 and Phenom II X6

but if you will run @stock Phenom II X6 is a much much better choice and is faster @stock
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 13, 2010 3:53:56 PM

I'm not debating that SSDs aren't useful. In fact, I have one myself. But at $1000, you have to give up too much to buy an SSD, such that it reduces the performance of your computer in other areas. It's not worth it at $1000 for a computer that is going to do any amount of gaming.

I'm not going to debate sematics with you, raclimja, the fact remains that SLI & Crossfire are technologies that allow a person to combine multiple GPUs to increase the performance. The minor differences aren't really worth getting worked up over.

I guess I'll leave it up to the OP to decide whether or not graphics card power consumption or actual performance in gaming is more important. The differences that you're calling attention to seem pretty minimal to me. To be honest, I can't even find the GT 240 on recent benchmarks, which suggests to me that reviewers find it obsolete enough that it's not worth comparing. I don't suppose you've been able to track down charts showing the gaming performance of a GT 240 vs. a 5770 or a 460?

Furthermore, THG's Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart puts the GT 240 about 5 tiers below the 5770, suggesting that significant performance improvements could result in going to that card. Whether or not it'd be super noticeable at the current resolution is up for debate, but if the OP upgrades the monitor (as was indicated as a possibility), then the GT 240 would definitely show its age. I would think that you'd want to get a current generation graphics card, so that you're not buying tech that is pre-obsolete (for example, the GT 240 does not support DX11, while the alternatives suggested do).

Finally, I'll admit that I'm not a super expert at overclocking, but I think that you're spreading unnecessary fear and doom, raclimja.

Phenom II X4 940 vs. i7-920 power consumption - the Phenom is using slightly more wattage, but not "MASSIVE" as you claim.

This article from bit-tech suggests that a Phenom II X4 955/965 consumes the same or even less wattage than an i5-750 (with the newer C3 stepping -- the processors with the model name ending in MBOX use the C3 stepping and are not hard to find).

If you have information that differs, by all means, please share.
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 13, 2010 4:47:31 PM

Ugh, ok people who do incomplete research to make inaccurate conclusions really need to stop doing so on these forums.

Quote:
most Antec and Corsair power supply is just a rebranded Seasonic PSU

False. The popular Corsair 750tx, 850tx and several other's are in fact made by channel wells. The HX line and a few higher TX ones are made by seasonic.

Antec PSU's are also a mix of Channel Wells and seasonic.


Cm Hyper 212 plus is $30, in most places besides newegg which double the price recently. Per frosty tech, Frio is 2x the money for a 2.4c temp difference.
http://frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2523&pa...


Coldsleep has already corrected the inaccurate power consumption claims you made.


SLI/xfire are used interchangeably here. It's simply a shorter way of saying do you plan or using multiple GPU's?


The GT240 is by no means a gaming GPU, even for light gaming. In addition, it's very old tech, and should not be included in a PC meant to last "many, many years".

Quote:
i would advice against getting a Phenom II X4 for software development stuff because an overclocked Core i5 750 will destroy any Phenom


False conclusion. For well threaded software, a Phenom II x6 performs better than an i5-750. Whether this applies to OP depends on software he uses.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3674/amds-sixcore-phenom-...

For $1k in the US you can get a Phenom II x4+5850+new 1920x1080 monitor. This would be a better gaming build.

If OP prefers a workstation build, with CUDA, he can do a i7-930 + 9800gtx+ build for $1k.

Either of these builds would be better performance, and stay relevant for longer. Including an SSD that would be a bad deal when looking back a few months from now, is not the way to go.
Score
0
July 14, 2010 2:49:22 AM

coldsleep said:
I'm not debating that SSDs aren't useful. In fact, I have one myself. But at $1000, you have to give up too much to buy an SSD, such that it reduces the performance of your computer in other areas. It's not worth it at $1000 for a computer that is going to do any amount of gaming.


i already leave it to op if he wants it or not.

im just showing the impact that it can make on his daily working environment.

if your opinion is that ssd is not worthit, from my personal experience from a work environment every second counts especially if you have many task assigned to you added to that your personal stress, things arent going smoothly and it will lead you nuts


Quote:
I'm not going to debate sematics with you, raclimja, the fact remains that SLI & Crossfire are technologies that allow a person to combine multiple GPUs to increase the performance. The minor differences aren't really worth getting worked up over.[/qoute]

just to clear this thing up

idea = the same

technoloy = not the same

Quote:
I guess I'll leave it up to the OP to decide whether or not graphics card power consumption or actual performance in gaming is more important. The differences that you're calling attention to seem pretty minimal to me. To be honest, I can't even find the GT 240 on recent benchmarks, which suggests to me that reviewers find it obsolete enough that it's not worth comparing. I don't suppose you've been able to track down charts showing the gaming performance of a GT 240 vs. a 5770 or a 460?

Furthermore, THG's Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart puts the GT 240 about 5 tiers below the 5770, suggesting that significant performance improvements could result in going to that card. Whether or not it'd be super noticeable at the current resolution is up for debate, but if the OP upgrades the monitor (as was indicated as a possibility), then the GT 240 would definitely show its age. I would think that you'd want to get a current generation graphics card, so that you're not buying tech that is pre-obsolete (for example, the GT 240 does not support DX11, while the alternatives suggested do).



added performance and features is nice, but for a working environment i bet he wont do any hardcore games like crysis, metro 2033, crystosis

also considering the price difference, he better save the money and spend it when the GT 240's performance is insufficient, i bet by the time GT 240 is obsolete, the money he saved from not buying a 5770 or GTX 460, for the same price he can buy a graphics card that is faster than GTX 460 or 5770



Quote:
Finally, I'll admit that I'm not a super expert at overclocking, but I think that you're spreading unnecessary fear and doom, raclimja.

Phenom II X4 940 vs. i7-920 power consumption - the Phenom is using slightly more wattage, but not "MASSIVE" as you claim.

This article from bit-tech suggests that a Phenom II X4 955/965 consumes the same or even less wattage than an i5-750 (with the newer C3 stepping -- the processors with the model name ending in MBOX use the C3 stepping and are not hard to find).

If you have information that differs, by all means, please share.



if you don' t understand what im trying to say look at this



at idle the overclocked Phenom II X6 1055T consumes 75.2w where the Core i5 750 consumes 80.6w



now this is where things start to go wrong
at load an overclocked Core i5 750 consumes only 204.4(133.1 @stock) but when you look at Phenom II X6 1055T its power consumption is 313.5w(158.4w @stock)

yes you read it right (three hundred thirteen point five watts) that is almost double the power consumption @ stock
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-phenom...

just in case you missed what i said earlier


Quote:
if your gonna overclock, do not get an AMD setup, i repeat DO NO GET AMD setup

power consumption increase on AMD is MASSIVE when overclocked

an overclocked Core i5 750 4Ghz will be faster than both Phenom II X4 and Phenom II X6

but if you will run @stock Phenom II X6 is a much much better choice and is faster @stock
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 14, 2010 2:56:19 AM

raclimja said:

if your opinion is that ssd is not worthit, from my personal experience from a work environment every second counts especially if you have many task assigned to you added to that your personal stress, things arent going smoothly and it will lead you nuts


No, I said that an SSD does not provide enough value with a total budget of $1000.

An SSD is absolutely worth it if you can afford to not gimp the rest of your build, which is very difficult at $1000.



if you don' t understand what im trying to say look at this

at idle the overclocked Phenom II X6 1055T consumes 75.2w where the Core i5 750 consumes 80.6w said:

if you don' t understand what im trying to say look at this

at idle the overclocked Phenom II X6 1055T consumes 75.2w where the Core i5 750 consumes 80.6w


Why in the heck would you compare a 1055T X6 to an i5-750? The X6 is worse at almost all benchmarks (except highly-multithreaded apps) than the i5-750. They're used for completely different purposes.

The only reason to buy a 1055T over an i5-750 is if you have highly-threaded apps (like 3D rendering) and that's all you're going to do.

Here's a head-to-head comparison of the 1055T X6 and the i5-750.
Score
0
July 14, 2010 2:58:45 AM

coldsleep said:

Why in the heck would you compare a 1055T X6 to an i5-750? The X6 is worse at almost all benchmarks (except highly-multithreaded apps) than the i5-750? They're used for completely different purposes.

The only reason to buy a 1055T over an i5-750 is if you have highly-threaded apps (like 3D rendering) and that's all you're going to do.

Here's a head-to-head comparison of the 1055T X6 and the i5-750.



one simple reason, money

they are priced the same


edit: i forgot the op is using the computer for software development stuff

this is what he said himself


Quote:
Looking to spend under 1k in total. I plan to use the PC mostly for low end gaming (not really a fan of all the super new stuff) and software development (so plenty of RAM and multiple cores would probably be helpful).


as you can see each decision i made is based on the op's needs, not the one based on my personal preference :) 
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 14, 2010 3:05:10 AM

You don't need 6 cores for software development.
Score
0
July 14, 2010 3:06:27 AM

coldsleep said:
You don't need 6 cores for software development.


im very sorry but im not the one who said that. :)  tell that to the op
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 14, 2010 3:15:11 AM

raclimja said:
im very sorry but im not the one who said that. :)  tell that to the op


"Multiple cores" != 6 cores, necessarily. Any modern processor has multiple cores.

About the only thing coded to use 6 cores right now is 3D rendering software.

At any rate, apparently we can't agree on this.
Score
0
July 14, 2010 3:23:36 AM

banthracis said:
Ugh, ok people who do incomplete research to make inaccurate conclusions really need to stop doing so on these forums.


if flaming me makes you happy, im ok with that :) 

Quote:
most Antec and Corsair power supply is just a rebranded Seasonic PSU

Quote:
False. The popular Corsair 750tx, 850tx and several other's are in fact made by channel wells. The HX line and a few higher TX ones are made by seasonic.

Antec PSU's are also a mix of Channel Wells and seasonic.



i thought i said most not all :whistle: 





Quote:
Coldsleep has already corrected the inaccurate power consumption claims you made.



if thats what you believe, its your "personal preference"


Quote:
SLI/xfire are used interchangeably here. It's simply a shorter way of saying do you plan or using multiple GPU's?




Quote:
The GT240 is by no means a gaming GPU, even for light gaming. In addition, it's very old tech, and should not be included in a PC meant to last "many, many years".


i thought Phenom II X4 is intoduced on 2008? :lol: 

Quote:
i would advice against getting a Phenom II X4 for software development stuff because an overclocked Core i5 750 will destroy any Phenom


Quote:
False conclusion. For well threaded software, a Phenom II x6 performs better than an i5-750. Whether this applies to OP depends on software he uses.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3674/amds-sixcore-phenom-...


proof that im not fabricating my "own stories"



















Quote:
For $1k in the US you can get a Phenom II x4+5850+new 1920x1080 monitor. This would be a better gaming build.


? :lol: 

Quote:
I plan to use the PC mostly for low end gaming (not really a fan of all the super new stuff) and software development (so plenty of RAM and multiple cores would probably be helpful).


i bet 5850 can play tetris at 3000+ FPS :lol: 

Score
0
July 14, 2010 3:56:04 AM

coldsleep said:
"Multiple cores" != 6 cores, necessarily. Any modern processor has multiple cores.

About the only thing coded to use 6 cores right now is 3D rendering software.

At any rate, apparently we can't agree on this.




having extra cores i very helpful especially on work computer

lets say his software development takes the 4 cores 100% at load

he still got 2 more cores to do other stuff(like excel, Microsoft word, internet explorer, weather bug, music player, etc)


for a work computer, especially software development i bet he will rarely be running 1 task a time
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 14, 2010 4:08:19 AM

You seem to like cherry picking numbers that suit your argument. You got your SSD number off anandtech, why not your x6 numbers?

I even linked the full anandtech benchmarks for you.

Quote:
For well threaded software, a Phenom II x6 performs better than an i5-750. Whether this applies to OP depends on software he uses.


That is a perfectly true statmene, bu rather than argue your word vs cold's and mine, I'll direct you and the OP to an industry respected expert.

From Anand Lal Shimpi, probably the most respected hardware reviewer alive.

Quote:
Applications like video encoding and offline 3D rendering show the real strengths of the Phenom II X6. And thanks to Turbo Core, you don't give up any performance in less threaded applications compared to a Phenom II X4. The 1090T can easily trump the Core i7 860 and the 1055T can do even better against the Core i5 750.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/3674/amds-sixcore-phenom-...

Feel free to browse through his much more thorough, scientific and respected testing procedure and numbers. They fully support his claim.

While Tom's here didn't fully test the 1055t, they judged the x6's offering a better buy for multithreaded tasks, though deficient in gaming.

Quote:
As a result, it’s easy to recommend the Phenom II X6 1090T for folks able to employ its six cores. Video work, threaded Photoshop filters, rendering—in those workloads, AMD’s new flagship is, in many cases, able to keep up with the quad-core Core i7-975.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-phenom-ii-x6-1090t-89...


I think anyone half knowledgeable about hardware review sites would trust Tom's hardware AND Anandtech numbers over xbit labs...

Though as Cold pointed out, software development usually isn't thread intensive, so he'd be fine with 4 cores.


Quote:
Quote :

For $1k in the US you can get a Phenom II x4+5850+new 1920x1080 monitor. This would be a better gaming build.



? :lol: 


Again, cherry pick much?

Full statement was
Quote:
For $1k in the US you can get a Phenom II x4+5850+new 1920x1080 monitor. This would be a better gaming build.

If OP prefers a workstation build, with CUDA, he can do a i7-930 + 9800gtx+ build for $1k.


That's 2 builds right there, both in budget. The first offers much better gaming performance than your build, the second, better workstation productivity.

And FYI, phenom II x4 was released in end of april, 2009. The GT 240 is a re branded 9800, that one is april 2008 tech.

Further, lifespan of CPU's are generally longer than GPU's due to longer generation times.
Score
0
July 14, 2010 4:19:12 AM

banthracis said:
You seem to like cherry picking numbers that suit your argument. You got your SSD number off anandtech, why not your x6 numbers?

I even linked the full anandtech benchmarks for you.

Quote:
For well threaded software, a Phenom II x6 performs better than an i5-750. Whether this applies to OP depends on software he uses.


That is a perfectly true statmene, bu rather than argue your word vs cold's and mine, I'll direct you and the OP to an industry respected expert.

From Anand Lal Shimpi, probably the most respected hardware reviewer alive.

Quote:
Applications like video encoding and offline 3D rendering show the real strengths of the Phenom II X6. And thanks to Turbo Core, you don't give up any performance in less threaded applications compared to a Phenom II X4. The 1090T can easily trump the Core i7 860 and the 1055T can do even better against the Core i5 750.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/3674/amds-sixcore-phenom-...

Feel free to browse through his much more thorough, scientific and respected testing procedure and numbers. They fully support his claim.

While Tom's here didn't fully test the 1055t, they judged the x6's offering a better buy for multithreaded tasks, though deficient in gaming.

Quote:
As a result, it’s easy to recommend the Phenom II X6 1090T for folks able to employ its six cores. Video work, threaded Photoshop filters, rendering—in those workloads, AMD’s new flagship is, in many cases, able to keep up with the quad-core Core i7-975.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-phenom-ii-x6-1090t-89...


I think anyone half knowledgeable about hardware review sites would trust Tom's hardware AND Anandtech numbers over xbit labs...

Though as Cold pointed out, software development usually isn't thread intensive, so he'd be fine with 4 cores.


Quote:
Quote :

For $1k in the US you can get a Phenom II x4+5850+new 1920x1080 monitor. This would be a better gaming build.



? :lol: 


Again, cherry pick much?

Full statement was
Quote:
For $1k in the US you can get a Phenom II x4+5850+new 1920x1080 monitor. This would be a better gaming build.

If OP prefers a workstation build, with CUDA, he can do a i7-930 + 9800gtx+ build for $1k.


That's 2 builds right there, both in budget. The first offers much better gaming performance than your build, the second, better workstation productivity.

And FYI, phenom II x4 was released in end of april, 2009. The GT 240 is a re branded 9800, that one is april 2008 tech.

Further, lifespan of CPU's are generally longer than GPU's due to longer generation times.





your argument proves you are wrong


your comparing a stock Phenom II X6 1055T to a stock Core i5 750



if you remember, i said this one


Quote:
if your gonna overclock, do not get an AMD setup, i repeat DO NO GET AMD setup

power consumption increase on AMD is MASSIVE when overclocked

an overclocked Core i5 750 4Ghz will be faster than both Phenom II X4 and Phenom II X6

but if you will run @stock Phenom II X6 is a much much better choice and is faster @stock




so far by looking at the charts you provided and the charts i provided


an overclocked Core i5 750 is faster than an overclocked Phenom II X6 1055T while consuming considerable less power consumption


vice versa if both processor is running @stock speed, Phenom II X6 1055T is faster and a much much better value than Core i5 750


if you still cant understand what i mean,

can you tell me your native language and i will use google translate so you better understand because english is the only language i know to speak and understand so far
Score
0
July 14, 2010 4:43:37 AM

banthracis said:

For $1k in the US you can get a Phenom II x4+5850+new 1920x1080 monitor. This would be a better gaming build.

If OP prefers a workstation build, with CUDA, he can do a i7-930 + 9800gtx+ build for $1k.

That's 2 builds right there, both in budget. The first offers much better gaming performance than your build, the second, better workstation productivity.



why don't you make an actual build with real prices and real parts and not just trow names?

i think in that way, you could help the op rather throw some random words :lol: 



Quote:
And FYI, phenom II x4 was released in end of april, 2009.


i think i made an erroneous regarding the Phenom II X4 release date, so apologies please i think my memory is messed up

back to topic

late 2008, rumors and leaks start popping out about Phenom II X4 as far as i remember
http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Sneak-Peeks-Phenom-II-O...
http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=318&t...


the official release of Phenom II X4 is January 8, 2009
which is the Phenom II X4 940 BE


Quote:
The GT 240 is a re branded 9800, that one is april 2008 tech.


GT 2XX is not a rebranded G92 core(98XX)
it is the first Nvidia chip that used GDDR5 and the chip itself is based on a modified GT200 (the one used in GTX 260, GTX 280) and they added Direct X 10.1

Further, lifespan of CPU's are generally longer than GPU's due to longer generation times.

also GT 2XX is released on late 2009 (November 17, 2009 to be specific) not april 2008
Score
0
July 14, 2010 4:46:08 AM

woops, i cant edit somehow

by the way this part
"Further, lifespan of CPU's are generally longer than GPU's due to longer generation times. "

is not from me
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 14, 2010 4:57:10 AM

Love how you state this


raclimja said:

as you can see each decision i made is based on the op's needs, not the one based on my personal preference :) 



then this
raclimja said:
your argument proves you are wrong


your comparing a stock Phenom II X6 1055T to a stock Core i5 750




Despite the OP saying this
Quote:
Overclocking: Probably not, I intend for this PC to last me many, many years (my old one is a P4 for which the last BIOS update was made in 2003), so I'd rather sacrifice a few % of the speed in lieu of life time.



I think you're the one who needs some help here understanding English, or perhaps you need some help with reading comprehension?

I'll sum it up plainly for you. OP prefers not to OC. Therefor your OC arguments are entirely pointless.

Furthermore, OC potential varies from chip to chip and is never guaranteed. Hence, the experts base their analysis on performance at stock settings.

The statement that the 1055t is better and well threaded task's than the i5-750 is perfectly valid and backed by top reviewers with thorough testing at 2 top hardware review sites.

What do you have backing your statements again? A couple select benchmarks from a second rate review site?

Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 14, 2010 5:29:07 AM

raclimja said:
why don't you make an actual build with real prices and real parts and not just trow names?

i think in that way, you could help the op rather throw some random words :lol: 




I use promo codes, combo deals, etc when I make full builds. I'd like to know exactly which path the OP wants to go before I take the time to locate parts and deals in germany, where prices and availability aren't the same as the US.

I've done plenty of full and partial builds at 1k along both those lines. Problem is, they utilize discounts and deals the expire in days, no point in doing a full listing until we know what OP wants.

If you want a couple of the tailored builds I put together since monday

For 3 workstation builds all ~$1,000

X6+5770+ 1920x1080 23.6" 1080p monitor

i7-860 + 9800gtx + 23.6" 1080p monitor

i5-750 + gtx 460 + + 23.6" 1080p monitor

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...


For Gaming builds ~$1,000

Phenom II x4 build + 5870
phenom II x4 + 5850 + 1080p monitor.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...


Cold and I have been doing his for a while, I assure you we both know how to make and link actual builds.
Score
0
July 14, 2010 5:33:00 AM

banthracis said:
Love how you state this





then this



Despite the OP saying this
Quote:
Overclocking: Probably not, I intend for this PC to last me many, many years (my old one is a P4 for which the last BIOS update was made in 2003), so I'd rather sacrifice a few % of the speed in lieu of life time.



I think you're the one who needs some help here understanding English, or perhaps you need some help with reading comprehension?

I'll sum it up plainly for you. OP prefers not to OC. Therefor your OC arguments are entirely pointless.

Furthermore, OC potential varies from chip to chip and is never guaranteed. Hence, the experts base their analysis on performance at stock settings.

The statement that the 1055t is better and well threaded task's than the i5-750 is perfectly valid and backed by top reviewers with thorough testing at 2 top hardware review sites.

What do you have backing your statements again? A couple select benchmarks from a second rate review site?




1. this is a forum everyone can express their opinions but no need to flame others
not because someone disagree with you, you to start crying.



2. as i already proven, an overclocked Core i5 750 can give massive performance boost and can even defeat a Phenom II X6 1055T,
i also proven that an Overclocked Core i5 750 consumes considerably less power consumption


i proven everything you trow at me for so called "false statements"



3. im SHOWING, DEMONSTRATING the benefits of overclocking and by no means FORCING TO DO SO



4. i even offered alternative and even stated that if he will not overclock, Phenom II X6 is faster and a much much better choice than Core i5 750


so tell me now, what is your valid point?
that my claims is of massive power consumption of Phenom II is a lie?
that SSD's are *** and sould not be considered?
that GPU is more important than SSD for work purposes?
that Seasonic doesnt made PSU's for corsair and antec?
that Phenom II is faster even when both Core i5 750 and Phenom II X6 1055T is overclocked?

stop talking *** kid you doesn't prove anything

im challenging you to prove me wrong, im sick and tired of replying to brain dead people
Score
0
a b B Homebuilt system
July 14, 2010 6:17:42 AM

raclimja said:
i even offered alternative and even stated that if he will not overclock, Phenom II X6 is faster and a much much better choice than Core i5 750


Except that it isn't. The 1055T X6 is great at multi-threaded apps, but worse than the i5-750 at mixed/poorly-threaded workloads, which is what most computer usage (including all the software development I've seen over the past 10+ years) turns out to be.


so tell me now, what is your valid point?
that my claims is of massive power consumption of Phenom II is a lie?
that SSD's are *** and sould not be considered?
that GPU is more important than SSD for work purposes?
that Seasonic doesnt made PSU's for corsair and antec?
that Phenom II is faster even when both Core i5 750 and Phenom II X6 1055T is overclocked? said:

so tell me now, what is your valid point?
that my claims is of massive power consumption of Phenom II is a lie?
that SSD's are *** and sould not be considered?
that GPU is more important than SSD for work purposes?
that Seasonic doesnt made PSU's for corsair and antec?
that Phenom II is faster even when both Core i5 750 and Phenom II X6 1055T is overclocked?


1) No one is arguing that the Phenom II X6 doesn't consume more power...more cores are generally going to consume more power. What I don't understand is why you're so focused on power consumption. Very few machines run at 100% load for very long. Most of the time, a standard desktop will be running at 20% CPU utilization or less. It will certainly spike to 100% from time to time, but that isn't a typical usage pattern. Power consumption for graphics cards is a little more valid, as they're likely to run at load for a longer duration than the system processor...but it's still not the be-all, end-all.

2) SSDs are great. I love mine. But they're not worth sacrificing the rest of your build in order to purchase one, which you have to do if your budget is $1000. Assuming you spend $150-200 on CPU, $100 on 4 GB of RAM ($200 if 8 GB), $150ish on mobo, $100 on OS, $50 on a 500 GB 7200 rpm HDD, $100-200 on a GPU (depending on preference), $75-100 on a PSU, and say, $50-100 on a case...that's between $800-1000, give or take. Any reasonable SSD is $200+. (I'll note that I personally feel that anything under 80 GB is lacking, because SSD speed is directly proportional to the size of the storage. The 60 GB Vertex 2 you linked isn't going to be able to achieve the speeds indicated in the charts you linked.)

3) Depending on the type of work being done, the GPU could be more important. It doesn't appear to be in this case, of course. An SSD will save seconds on some tasks, but it's not going to provide the performance that you could get by putting that money into other parts.

4) Semantics. "Most" vs. "some".

5) I'm not sure I understand your use of "faster". If you mean which one can achieve a higher clock speed, it's all up to the individual chip. In general, the i5-750 tends to achieve higher clock speeds. If you mean "provides more processing power," then it depends on the workload...as has been mentioned frequently above.
Score
0
July 14, 2010 6:40:51 AM

coldsleep said:
Except that it isn't. The 1055T X6 is great at multi-threaded apps, but worse than the i5-750 at mixed/poorly-threaded workloads, which is what most computer usage (including all the software development I've seen over the past 10+ years) turns out to be.



1) No one is arguing that the Phenom II X6 doesn't consume more power...more cores are generally going to consume more power. What I don't understand is why you're so focused on power consumption. Very few machines run at 100% load for very long. Most of the time, a standard desktop will be running at 20% CPU utilization. It will certainly spike to 100%, but that isn't a typical usage pattern.




where not talking about "standard desktop that idles 20% cpu"

were talking about a computer that will handle, software development



Quote:
2) SSDs are great. I love mine. But they're not worth sacrificing the rest of your build in order to purchase one, which you have to do if your budget is $1000. Assuming you spend $150-200 on CPU, $100 on RAM, $150ish on mobo, $100 on OS, $50 on a 500 GB 7200 rpm HDD, $100-200 on a GPU (depending on preference), $75-100 on a PSU, and say, $50-100 on a case...that's between $800-1000, give or take.



what do you mean exactly by sacrificing? so your saying all the parts i included is "junk" and will not function as it supposed to be?


Quote:
Any reasonable SSD is $200+. (I'll note that I personally feel that anything under 80 GB is lacking, because SSD speed is directly proportional to the size of the storage.




i challenge you to prove it on a drive using sandforce controller A.K.A OCZ Vertex 2 60GB



Quote:
The 60 GB Vertex 2 you linked isn't going to be able to achieve the speeds indicated in the charts you linked.)



since when? what scenario?


Quote:
3) Depending on the type of work being done, the GPU could be more important. It doesn't appear to be in this case,



so why are you insisting a gaming gpu on a work computer? and since when GT 240 is not enough for low end gaming?


just for your info, most work computer uses IGP


Quote:
of course. An SSD will save seconds on some tasks, but it's not going to provide the performance that you could get by putting that money into other parts.



have you encountered scenarios where your are

video editing and saving a raw file at the same time?

burning a disk and surfing the web at the same time at the same time?

scanning computer for viruses/malware/spyware while gaming at the same time?

switching from a heavy texture application to adobe photoshop at the same time?

copying files while installing software at the same time?


also can u define to me what is your meaning of multitasking?

4) Semantics. "Most" vs. "some".



Quote:
5) I'm not sure I understand your use of "faster". If you mean which one can achieve a higher clock speed, it's all up to the individual chip. In general, the i5-750 tends to achieve higher clock speeds. If you mean "provides more processing power," then it depends on the workload...as has been mentioned frequently above.


faster = can process a task at less time given
Score
0
July 14, 2010 7:18:29 AM

I think the subject has been hashed out as much as can be.
Score
0
!