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AMD Benchmarks Zacate APU, 2x Faster GPU Performance than Core i5

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September 14, 2010 11:54:34 PM

This isn't interesting?
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September 15, 2010 12:24:55 AM

Interesting, but I'll wait until 3rd party reviews come out... remember what happened with the original Phenoms?
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September 15, 2010 12:29:57 AM

And this was supposed to compete with the Atom?

*cross fingers*
September 15, 2010 12:40:49 AM

If things all arent just tilted towards AMD looking at its best, and its this good across a wide spectrum of apps/uses, Atom will be split
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September 15, 2010 12:53:19 AM

^ Agreed. Imo, I think Intel will shift Atom toward being aimed directly at ARM in MIDs/smart phones. Only thing Intel really has to do is reduce power consumption to ARM level imo. Having x86 gives them a huge heads up in terms of software,etc. I'd love to run any x86 program on my smart phone. Then I would truly have a true PC...

WTH who am I kidding.
September 15, 2010 1:00:12 AM

Intel isnt likely to jump in at this level, as being the only one for awhile, they saw Atom encroaching on their other sales
This may make Intel a lil gun shy, and maybe will leave this market as is
Just like AMD/ATI will feel the pinch from bottom up abilities with their new IGPs, both Intel and AMD, I think Intel has a been there done that attitude and wont make another approach unless margins increase
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September 15, 2010 1:05:31 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
If things all arent just tilted towards AMD looking at its best, and its this good across a wide spectrum of apps/uses, Atom will be split

I guess then Intel should just market them as "Proton" for Nettops, "Electron" for Netbooks and "Neutron" for MIDs. :pt1cable: 

@shadow, doesn't Moorestown do exactly what you just said? It runs WIn7 fine with with the Oak Trail platform, on the mobile side MeeGo is also supported (obviously).
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September 15, 2010 2:11:37 AM

Shadow703793 said:
^ Agreed. Imo, I think Intel will shift Atom toward being aimed directly at ARM in MIDs/smart phones. Only thing Intel really has to do is reduce power consumption to ARM level imo. Having x86 gives them a huge heads up in terms of software,etc. I'd love to run any x86 program on my smart phone. Then I would truly have a true PC...

WTH who am I kidding.


Atom has never been set for anything more than UMIDs meaning smart phones, tablets and of course the netbook market they created all while being very simple and having an extremley low power design.

I mean the first Atom alone was quite amazing only using 8w of power.

As for Zecate, I am waiting to see actual thrid party power consumption results.

A HD5450 which is the current 80 SP unit from ATI at the 40nm process consumes 6.5w idle alone and 19.1w under load according to AMD. That doesn't show very much promise for ultra low power netbooks but it does for low power notebooks. If they optimized it to take around the same power as Atom, I can see it competing but if it uses too much more, it probably wont be able to compete.



If those power results stay the same it will compete with SB more than anything and as far as we know, SB is able to give the same 2x Core i5 performance in the graphics market.
September 15, 2010 2:41:27 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Atom will be split


PUN!!!!

Anyway, how much of an IPC increase do you think the 32nm Phenom II cores have over the 45nm ones?

And if Zacate is this powerful, and is meant for tablets and netbooks, then i think Llano will definitely trounce Sandy Bridge's igp.
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September 15, 2010 3:01:42 AM

^I have yet to hear of a 32nm Phenom II core. I thought 32nm was going for Bulldozer only. Maybe they changed thier minds.

I would hope a 400 SP unit CPU + GPU would kill SBs graphics. But then again 400 SP units would take quite a bit of power and create a lot of heat even on 40nm compared to a 80 SP unit or even SBs HD graphics.
September 15, 2010 3:11:15 AM

jimmysmitty said:
^I have yet to hear of a 32nm Phenom II core. I thought 32nm was going for Bulldozer only. Maybe they changed thier minds.

I would hope a 400 SP unit CPU + GPU would kill SBs graphics. But then again 400 SP units would take quite a bit of power and create a lot of heat even on 40nm compared to a 80 SP unit or even SBs HD graphics.

The article said that it would use a 32nm Phenom II core

Edit: Oh wait thats Llano
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September 15, 2010 3:30:59 AM

^Bobcat was supposed to be a 40nm Deneb based core.

If Llano is 32nm then it probably wont be out until BD is whcih means Intel will have Ivy Bridge on the 22nm process that they can probably use to increase IPC on the CPU and GPU.
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September 15, 2010 4:03:59 PM

Timop said:
I guess then Intel should just market them as "Proton" for Nettops, "Electron" for Netbooks and "Neutron" for MIDs. :pt1cable: 

@shadow, doesn't Moorestown do exactly what you just said? It runs WIn7 fine with with the Oak Trail platform, on the mobile side MeeGo is also supported (obviously).

Yup. Moorstown does exactly that.

Here is an Atom SoC announcement @ IDF: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3929/intel-announces-tunn...

What I'm really looking forward as a robotics hobbyist is the so called Stellarton. For the complex robotics project (think College level competitions and above) that would make Stellarton one sweet platform assuming there are no major trade offs (ie power, latency,etc).
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September 15, 2010 6:13:07 PM

The trouble with comparing Zacate to Atom is that Zacate is aimed at the notebook market, as stated in the AT review:

Quote:
. Zacate is AMD’s 18W APU aimed at the mainstream notebook market (~$500 notebooks). The APU features a pair of Bobcat cores and a Cedar-class AMD DX11 GPU. Spending some time with the physical Zacate package, it seems to have a single 64-bit DDR3 memory interface ala Atom. Unlike Atom however, both the Bobcat cores and the DX11 GPU should be relatively high performance.


As such, AMD chose to bench it against a Core i5 notebook with GMA graphics and an old driver. I didn't see any CPU-type benchmarks either - suspect Zacate would fall seriously short in that dept.

At any rate, since Zacate is supposed to be out early Q1 next year, it'll be going up against Sandy Bridge notebooks with the much better GPU:

Quote:
I saw performance in the 27 - 34 fps range on Zacate. At almost 2x the performance of Intel's HD Graphics, Zacate seems to provide the same performance boost that we saw with Sandy Bridge in our preview. Granted this isn't in a benchmark we've tried on Sandy Bridge, but the initial performance advantage is promising.


So my guess is that the benchies will show about parity on the GPU end, and SB way ahead on the CPU end. Which will mean AMD will be competing on price once again, not performance.

For netbooks, it is the 9 watt Ontario that will be competing with Atom, and IIRC the newest dual-Atom Moorestown SoC uses up to 10X less idle & active power as the previous generation of Atoms, and the Oaktrail SoC (for Windows) also significantly reduces the power consumption. Haven't seen any power benches for Moorestown, other than an AT article mentioning 1.1W during HD video playback. As for performance, check out the AT article http://www.anandtech.com/show/3921/moorestown-preview-o....
September 15, 2010 10:28:55 PM

Didn't you read the update? Zacate still pretty much demolished that i5 system. And thats a netbook vs notebook. And there are zacate notebooks, but its repeatedly stated they are mainly for netbooks, both by AMD and at they end of the article.
September 15, 2010 10:37:13 PM

To me nothings changed really, just that hallucination et al is a borked benchmark
September 15, 2010 10:52:26 PM

The updated benchmarks were even better for the bobcat? LOL.
September 15, 2010 10:53:10 PM

Does intel have a response against bobcat or zacate?
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September 15, 2010 11:03:56 PM

yannifb said:
Didn't you read the update? Zacate still pretty much demolished that i5 system. And thats a netbook vs notebook. And there are zacate notebooks, but its repeatedly stated they are mainly for netbooks, both by AMD and at they end of the article.


*Sigh*...

First of all, so what if Zacate showed 45% average framerate improvement over Intel's last-gen IGP? Zacate will be going up against the improved SB GPU which IIRC is about 2x the perfomance compared to the same last-gen IGP.

Second, which part of "Zacate is AMD’s 18W APU aimed at the mainstream notebook market (~$500 notebooks)" did you not understand?? Both the update (quoted above) and the first article stated as such. The i5 system was a notebook, SB will be for notebooks, and the Zacate system was identified as a "test platform". Where did you get "netbook" out of 'test platform'??

At 18 watts, I seriously doubt any OEM is gonna stick a Zacate system into a netbook like an iPad. Ontario (9 watts) maybe, but not Zacate. And 9 watts is kinda high too for something with a real skinny battery.

In contrast, many notebooks are designed around 25-35 watts, but they only get maybe 2-3 hours typical use (not just idle) out of a typical 65+ watt-hour battery. So Zacate will greatly improve battery life. I expect SB will too.

Ya know, after publicly embarrassing yourself in a couple recent threads, I would have thought you'd take some extra time and read the links (and posts) more carefully before whacking away at your keyboard again, but then maybe not :p ...
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September 15, 2010 11:07:50 PM

yannifb said:
Didn't you read the update? Zacate still pretty much demolished that i5 system. And thats a netbook vs notebook. And there are zacate notebooks, but its repeatedly stated they are mainly for netbooks, both by AMD and at they end of the article.

Isnt Ontario pitted directly against Atom, Zacate against Atom duos and lower-end CULV, then Llano for LV and mainstream?
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September 15, 2010 11:07:55 PM

eyefinity said:
The updated benchmarks were even better for the bobcat? LOL.


No. With updated drivers the Zacate test system only averaged 45% better than Intel's IGP.

In contrast, the first bench showed Zacate as 900% faster than Intel's IGP in one test.
September 15, 2010 11:11:02 PM

Others have also tested OCeed i7s with dual gfx, highend gfx etc, and have all come within the same numbers, that bench is borked
September 15, 2010 11:47:59 PM

fazers_on_stun said:



Ya know, after publicly embarrassing yourself in a couple recent threads, I would have thought you'd take some extra time and read the links (and posts) more carefully before whacking away at your keyboard again, but then maybe not :p ...

*sigh*

When? You mean when i posted facts whenever your apparent bias toward intel makes you attack every little thing that shows AMD may have a better chip in one section of the market?

By the way that article says netbook/notebook market when talking about Zacate. Looks like your the one who needs to work on comprehension.
September 15, 2010 11:51:34 PM

Timop said:
Isnt Ontario pitted directly against Atom, Zacate against Atom duos and lower-end CULV, then Llano for LV and mainstream?

Exactly, thats why its impressive since the lower end of the Fusion line up bests a mid range platform. And It shouldnt matter that its last generation, Atom dual cores can barely keep up with P4s.
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September 16, 2010 12:05:41 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Others have also tested OCeed i7s with dual gfx, highend gfx etc, and have all come within the same numbers, that bench is borked

QFT
yannifb said:
Exactly, thats why its impressive since the lower end of the Fusion line up bests a mid range platform. And It shouldnt matter that its last generation, Atom dual cores can barely keep up with P4s.

Atom was originally intended by Intel to be used in MIDs,SoCs,etc not specifically Netbooks.
September 16, 2010 12:06:07 AM

fazers_on_stun said:
No. With updated drivers the Zacate test system only averaged 45% better than Intel's IGP.

In contrast, the first bench showed Zacate as 900% faster than Intel's IGP in one test.


What about the gaming tests? Faster or not?
September 16, 2010 12:08:20 AM

Thing is, this is a ES at an early stage at that. Add in special drivers that will improve, and the gap will only grow
September 16, 2010 12:10:47 AM

------------- Zacate ------------- I5

Batman ----- 16.5 fps ------------ 11.3 fps
City of Heroes 39.6 fps ------------ 25.5 fps

N-Body Sim ---23 GFLOPS--------- 8.8 GFLOPS

Zacate owns??
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September 16, 2010 12:14:55 AM

Sigh...wheres bobdozer, we need another AMD fanboy, maybe 2 of a kind repel. Anyway, so we all know the AMD test was entirely screwed up with bad or nonexistent drivers. Also, we are comparing Zacate to last gen stuff. Its like comparing 980x to X4 9850. Good luck with that one! :lol:  Get some high end SB or new 32nm Atom stuff in competition, then you can say Zacate ownage.
September 16, 2010 12:17:35 AM

^but the i5 it was benched against is 32nm. I think all the ones with IGPs are
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September 16, 2010 12:21:14 AM

ares1214 said:
Sigh...wheres bobdozer, we need another AMD fanboy, maybe 2 of a kind repel. Anyway, so we all know the AMD test was entirely screwed up with bad or nonexistent drivers. Also, we are comparing Zacate to last gen stuff. Its like comparing 980x to X4 9850. Good luck with that one! :lol:  Get some high end SB or new 32nm Atom stuff in competition, then you can say Zacate ownage.

Not really, Zacate is a lower-end product, while the 540M is a mid high range.
Zacate vs i5 is more like Athlon X2 250 and E8500.
September 16, 2010 12:28:12 AM

If SB pricing is just slightly higher for this market, then SB has a chance, as the cpu side should be superior, while the gpu side will be only slightly better, or not, and this is needed/wanted in these forms, tho others have denied this.
As for Atom, Intel will have to do something
September 16, 2010 12:42:46 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
If SB pricing is just slightly higher for this market, then SB has a chance, as the cpu side should be superior, while the gpu side will be only slightly better, or not, and this is needed/wanted in these forms, tho others have denied this.
As for Atom, Intel will have to do something


The cpu part of SB will definitely be better than these Phenom II based Fusion parts, but who knows (yet) about the BD based Fusion chips.

Also just something not too off topic but interesting (not sure if its old news but it cant hurt). Well you know how for single threaded tasks only one Bulldozer core is active, but has all the resources in the module available to it, making it like a beefy single core? Well according to John Fruehe at the AMD BD blog, if your program only uses, for example, 4 cores then instead of 4 cores in 2 modules of a 4 module chip being active, one core in each of the 4 modules will be active, meaning that the program will be using 4 very beefy cores instead of 4 cores sharing resources. I just thought that was a pretty smart trick. This should mean that for programs threaded for up to 4 cores, BD should have very impressive results (if your using the 4 module chip).
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September 16, 2010 12:47:44 AM

eyefinity said:
------------- Zacate ------------- I5

Batman ----- 16.5 fps ------------ 11.3 fps
City of Heroes 39.6 fps ------------ 25.5 fps

N-Body Sim ---23 GFLOPS--------- 8.8 GFLOPS

Zacate owns??


I think the point most people are missing is that this is Zecate vs current Core i5s not Sandy Bridge Core absed CPUs/GPUs which is what it will be up against.

Of course AMD can't really compare it since they can't get a SB CPU but still its not true to what it will be upon Zecates release.
September 16, 2010 12:56:04 AM

IF SB has the low power numbers and IF low end SB is price competitive, then itll be interesting
September 16, 2010 12:59:00 AM

yannifb said:
The cpu part of SB will definitely be better than these Phenom II based Fusion parts, but who knows (yet) about the BD based Fusion chips.

Also just something not too off topic but interesting (not sure if its old news but it cant hurt). Well you know how for single threaded tasks only one Bulldozer core is active, but has all the resources in the module available to it, making it like a beefy single core? Well according to John Fruehe at the AMD BD blog, if your program only uses, for example, 4 cores then instead of 4 cores in 2 modules of a 4 module chip being active, one core in each of the 4 modules will be active, meaning that the program will be using 4 very beefy cores instead of 4 cores sharing resources. I just thought that was a pretty smart trick. This should mean that for programs threaded for up to 4 cores, BD should have very impressive results (if your using the 4 module chip).

If SB has the ability to do this without automatically jumping into smt, this would be an advantage
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September 16, 2010 1:19:27 PM

yannifb said:
*sigh*

When? You mean when i posted facts whenever your apparent bias toward intel makes you attack every little thing that shows AMD may have a better chip in one section of the market?

By the way that article says netbook/notebook market when talking about Zacate. Looks like your the one who needs to work on comprehension.


But that's just it - you rarely post any facts and when you do, they're often wrong. Take what you just said. Please :D . The article clearly, and quite simply, distinguished between Zacate for notebooks and Ontario for netbooks. I quoted the exact language previously, straight from the article. Dunno how it could be more plain..

And no I'm not attacking AMD - just your posts. Especially the ones where you put on your junior deputy AMD badge & go after any suspected Intel enthusiasts with your popgun:

Quote:
EXT64 wrote :
He wasn't referring to Enzo as being a fanboy, I think.


Quote:
yannifb
Oh ok. Then nevermind


And you think my comprehension is bad :ouch: 
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September 16, 2010 1:24:19 PM

Shadow703793 said:
lol. Nice work by Anand. THIS is how tech reporting should be done.


*wonders why it has not been corrected on Tom's site yet...*
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September 16, 2010 1:29:38 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
IF SB has the low power numbers and IF low end SB is price competitive, then itll be interesting


True. According to AT's SB preview Intel has more extensive power gating and can shut off particular parts within a core, besides entire cores, such as the OoO when the microops cache is in loop playback mode. I guess that smaller heatsink Intel is including in the box is an indication of that :p .
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September 16, 2010 1:32:57 PM

SB will be interesting for Apple.

I wonder what will come from it.
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September 16, 2010 1:35:49 PM

My guess is, by the time Apple is selling Sandy Bridge CPU's, Ivy Bridge or Haswell will be out :lol: 
September 16, 2010 1:43:21 PM

jimmysmitty said:
I think the point most people are missing is that this is Zecate vs current Core i5s not Sandy Bridge Core absed CPUs/GPUs which is what it will be up against.

Of course AMD can't really compare it since they can't get a SB CPU but still its not true to what it will be upon Zecates release.


I think the real point most people are missing is that this Zacate is 18 watts vs a current 32 watt i5. Even with Sandy Bridge being a bit faster, do you think it will be fast enough to be half watts and still make up the difference? I don't see how that can happen.
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September 16, 2010 1:43:51 PM

Timop said:
Not really, Zacate is a lower-end product, while the 540M is a mid high range.
Zacate vs i5 is more like Athlon X2 250 and E8500.


It would seem that way, but according to the AT article, Zacate was targeted at the "~$500" notebook price range. I think they based that on statements from AMD. Hard to tell since the setup was just a test rig.

Anyway, I think most people here will be using notebooks that include discrete GPUs if they plan to game any significant amount of time. For business users, the GPU won't make much difference as long as it can decode HD video. I'd think the CPU power would influence their purchase more.

We'll just have to wait on shipping product and benchies before we can tell how well Zacate or SB will fit any particular use.
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September 16, 2010 1:44:53 PM

Haha, I meant the whole "We need Nvidia GPUs" thing Apple has going for the Macbooks. If only they had the sense to scrap the Nvidia chips and just use the Intel IGP, they'd have longer battery.

Hack, the Macbook 13 is still using a Core 2 Duo. Amazing isn't it?
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September 16, 2010 2:09:59 PM

I think Zacate is looking impressive and all, but i dont think AMD is going to take advantage of it. Its getting to the point where after more shrinking, its in the phone/tablet market. AMD has already stated they dont intend on going to those markets any time soon, so im not sure it will be fully exploited. But for netbooks, it looks pretty nice. If this is any reflection on Llano and BD, things are looking way up for AMD. They already have a 9 month lead in the video card market, and they are extending that lead. Once the compete with Intel a bit more, AMD will be a force to be reckoned with. I dont think Intel is scared yet though, IBM needs to go mainstream, then Intel might get scared. :lol: 
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September 16, 2010 4:03:34 PM

From http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/news/article.aspx?...:

Quote:
Intel's Sandy Bridge on track, eyes smartphones
September 13, 2010 3:42 PM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Intel Corp's next-generation processors will begin shipping heavily from early 2011, as the top global chip maker launches an assault on the specialized graphics market dominated by rivals Advanced Micro Devices Inc and Nvidia Corp .

Intel is seeking to drive future growth in a PC processor market it now dominates, while trying to get off the sidelines of a booming smartphone market. On Monday, chief executive Paul Otellini told reporters the company was "moving toward" getting its circuitry into two major brands of smartphones, without elaborating.

...

The company is now betting that Sandy Bridge, which it says combines more muscular graphics with its core processing power, will win over PC vendors and consumers next year.

"These second-generation Intel core processors will begin shipping in very high volume early in 2011," Otellini said.

Intel would like to see Sandy Bridge counted on to handle the mainstream graphics needs of computers built over the next few years, although PC manufacturers might continue to include specialized graphics chips in their products.


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September 16, 2010 4:06:28 PM

^ Meant to add to the above that the article is misleading - I don't think even Intel wants to stick Sandy Bridge into smartphones :p . What the article didn't mention was the Moorestown SoC..
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