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WinXp 32bit

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September 19, 2012 6:18:43 AM

I recently purchased a external USB HDD 2TB for our local Rural Fire Brigade.

I tested the drive on my Win7 64bit system and loaded the required files onto the drive - all good.

When I took it to the Station, I found that they have an old WinXP 32bit system and the drive is not recognised.

Is there a simple fix to this issue? The brigade is a cash strapped voluntary organisation :(  and I hope to able to help them out on this issue.

All feed back would be greatly appreciated.
VicB

More about : winxp 32bit

a c 375 G Storage
September 19, 2012 1:08:01 PM

The OS should not be the problem as both windows 7 and XP both use a NTFS file system. If your external drive requires a driver, it may need installed on XP, but as far as I know, most externals are plug and play. Is there another computer at the station you can try it on?
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a b G Storage
September 19, 2012 1:26:11 PM

move the jumper to slave. you can also hot plug it after other machine is at desktop. windows should find it... ?? but I would slave it anyways.
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a b G Storage
September 19, 2012 1:53:46 PM

@ swifty_morgan...

The OP mentioned that the HDD is an external unit so I'm perplexed about the *move the jumper to slave* thingy.

Hi vicb...

I assume that this external HDD is USB2.0 and was wondering if the USB ports on the XP desktop are operational. Have you tried to connect a USB stick to see if that works?
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a b G Storage
September 19, 2012 1:59:14 PM

missed that............. an old machine might not see that drive, ever. it's too big. and if it did it may not see the entire drive.
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September 20, 2012 12:14:41 AM

Hawkeye22 said:
The OS should not be the problem as both windows 7 and XP both use a NTFS file system. If your external drive requires a driver, it may need installed on XP, but as far as I know, most externals are plug and play. Is there another computer at the station you can try it on?


It is Plug & Play and no other PC available at station. However it does work on my Win7 64 bit system and all files are accessible.

The XP system sees the drives but cannot read the drive - say's disc drive needs to be formatted but even if I select this nothing happens! If this worked I could re-install the required files for the brigade.
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September 20, 2012 12:17:04 AM

ELMO_2006 said:
@ swifty_morgan...

The OP mentioned that the HDD is an external unit so I'm perplexed about the *move the jumper to slave* thingy.

Hi vicb...

I assume that this external HDD is USB2.0 and was wondering if the USB ports on the XP desktop are operational. Have you tried to connect a USB stick to see if that works?



Yes Elmo Toshiba Neso 2TB USB2. And YES the USB ports are working - access USB stik daily
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 12:27:07 AM

i screwed up on another post too....... meant set jumper to work at 150mb instead of 300. not jumper to slave. error 404........ lol
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a c 349 G Storage
September 20, 2012 3:52:46 AM

I doubt you need to set the jumper INSIDE the external HDD unit to slow it down to 1.5 Gb/s. That jumper only affects the data transfer rate from the HDD to its SATA controller, and that is also INSIDE the external unit. I would assume the manufacturer matched the HDD with the SATA controller / USB interface board they built into the system.

HOWEVER, check into this detail, OP. You say this is an older machine in the Fire Brigade building, running Win XP. The question I have is: how old is the version of XP it is using? You see, the original version of Win XP did NOT have a feature called "Support for 48-bit LBA", and that is necessary for using any HDD larger than 128 GB. Your new external unit is much larger. To check, click on Start, then on Control Panel; in that, click on Help .. About windows. See what it says about the OS. If it says Windows XP with NO mention of a Service Pack, this is your problem. And good news: you can fix that!

IF you have NO Service Pack updates installed on that machine, you should update the Win XP to the latest version, SP3. This can be done for free from the Microsoft website. Once that is done and rebooted, you should be able to use the large HDD in the external system.

If, instead, you have any of the SP's (1, 2 or 3) installed, this is not the source of your trouble. The necessary feature was added in SP1 and maintained in all subsequent.

As background, using HDD's over 128 GB requires 48-bit LBA Support in three places: the HDD unit itself (obviously will be there if the HDD is that big!); the controller it is attached to (in your case, the controller is actually inside the external enclosure, and MUST have been designed for that use - it works at home, right?); and lastly in your OS. That's why I said to check out the version of XP - that's the one place I can think of where it might be missing, and it can be fixed.
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 5:09:25 AM

i would suggest to check the bios of the xp motherboard for this 2 tb drive if there is a update so drive will have support on this board
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September 20, 2012 5:18:44 AM

Paperdoc said:
I doubt you need to set the jumper INSIDE the external HDD unit to slow it down to 1.5 Gb/s. That jumper only affects the data transfer rate from the HDD to its SATA controller, and that is also INSIDE the external unit. I would assume the manufacturer matched the HDD with the SATA controller / USB interface board they built into the system.

HOWEVER, check into this detail, OP. You say this is an older machine in the Fire Brigade building, running Win XP. The question I have is: how old is the version of XP it is using? You see, the original version of Win XP did NOT have a feature called "Support for 48-bit LBA", and that is necessary for using any HDD larger than 128 GB. Your new external unit is much larger. To check, click on Start, then on Control Panel; in that, click on Help .. About windows. See what it says about the OS. If it says Windows XP with NO mention of a Service Pack, this is your problem. And good news: you can fix that!

IF you have NO Service Pack updates installed on that machine, you should update the Win XP to the latest version, SP3. This can be done for free from the Microsoft website. Once that is done and rebooted, you should be able to use the large HDD in the external system.

If, instead, you have any of the SP's (1, 2 or 3) installed, this is not the source of your trouble. The necessary feature was added in SP1 and maintained in all subsequent.

As background, using HDD's over 128 GB requires 48-bit LBA Support in three places: the HDD unit itself (obviously will be there if the HDD is that big!); the controller it is attached to (in your case, the controller is actually inside the external enclosure, and MUST have been designed for that use - it works at home, right?); and lastly in your OS. That's why I said to check out the version of XP - that's the one place I can think of where it might be missing, and it can be fixed.



Yes. We talked about that last night at our meeting and I will get down to the station and do these checks. Also wondered about the BIOS version?
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 11:24:24 AM

great, and how's the manufacturer going to know what mother board or how old the operating system is. Bet there's a good chance it's a 3gb transfer rate and not 1.5........ ??? what good will that do ? how hard is it to pull the drive out of the enclosure and look. and if it's set to 3gb instead of 1.5 how hard is it to change it... not very. worth a shot considering nothing else has worked til now.
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September 20, 2012 12:01:02 PM

swifty_morgan said:
great, and how's the manufacturer going to know what mother board or how old the operating system is. Bet there's a good chance it's a 3gb transfer rate and not 1.5........ ??? what good will that do ? how hard is it to pull the drive out of the enclosure and look. and if it's set to 3gb instead of 1.5 how hard is it to change it... not very. worth a shot considering nothing else has worked til now.


Hey swifty, you got me going now. Are you saying the problem with accessing and reading files on the USB2 external drive (2TB) could be caused by the internal HDD?

If this is the case, how do I identify the transfer rate and then modify it?

Probably a dumb question to the experienced but that is how it is with me - learning on the go and willing to do so if I can assist our local volunteers.

External drive specs: Toshiba NESO 2TB USB2 Model: N2501S

I will pull the brigade PC down tomorrow and see what I can find out. It should be worth installing the service packs for the security patches if nothing else.

Does SP3 contain all the fixes of SP1 & 2?






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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 12:27:31 PM

I think swifty is thinking of the old KT600 chipset. (and possibly the KT800/880 as well.) They support SATA 1.5 just fine. But any sata faster then that they won't work with. Oddly enough I've been told that even if you jumper down to 1.5 they still won't work. I never owned a KT600/800/880 board so I don't know how true it is. But I heard from trusted people on this forum so I believe. If this is a similar case then even putting a jumper on the disk to use SATA 1.5 won't fix the issue. It is worth the shot I think to open the external box and see if you need to move the jumper. I'd try it however after making sure 48bit LBA is enabled and it still doesn't work.
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 12:43:26 PM

not talking about the internal hard drive....... you have a 2tb external drive........... these things are very new. you're trying to access on an old machine. old machines have trouble see new hard drives ( big drives ) or they won't recognize them at all. Maybe, and I mean maybe........... if you make that new drive read at 1.5mb per sec vs 3mb per sec it may see something.........

i can understand how this might not make a difference..... i totally see that......... other arguments are legitimate.

try an experiment........... remove the drive from the external housing. hook it up the conventional way. does the machine see it ? does it see it all ? if you put a jumper on it ( 1.5 ) does it see it ? can it read it ? does it see it all.......... I know xp isn't going to see it all........ it might see 137mg... ??? but if you don't try stuff you're never going to know.

.................... this is only about the external drive..........
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 2:05:33 PM

I'm at a lost and totally shocked here!

So this external HDD works fine on the OP's desktop but will not read on the Rural Fire Brigade's desktop due to it being XP and what not.

I cannot understand how and why anyone would want to open up the external drive possibly voiding the warranty and what not for the sake of proving a point?!?!?

Paperdoc already provided a viable solution to your troubles. As an example I have an older XP desktop which does support an external 2TB HDD most likely due to the fact that it has SP3 installed. And this drive is USB3.0.

Edit:

Just to add, it does not make a difference if the external HDD is SATA1, SATA2 or SATA3 etc, as the limiting factor here is that the interface is connected to the USB port and is separate from the system...
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September 20, 2012 2:51:50 PM

Just tossing this out there... Did you format the drive using GPT, (or GUID)? I know it's only 2TB but in Win7x64 it's an available option. If so XP won't see it.
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 3:05:05 PM

You know what, it actually sounds like the WinXP machine needs to be updated. If it's not updated, it may have problems with hard drives that are bigger than around 127gb's or something like that, they supposedly resolved this issue with WinXP sp2 but there were more patches after that concerning the problem regarding this. I ran into this problem setting up a virtual XP machine and had totally forgotten about this issue.
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 3:08:02 PM

lol... didn't see the posts from paperdoc explaining the same thing =D
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 3:43:15 PM

swifty_morgan said:
i screwed up on another post too....... meant set jumper to work at 150mb instead of 300. not jumper to slave. error 404........ lol





Did you even read the OP's original post? It's an external USB drive. No "master / slave" jumper, no "SATA 1 / 2" jumper. It's USB.
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a b G Storage
September 20, 2012 3:53:58 PM

nope..........I haven't been paying ANY ATTENTION to this entire

thread....... HAVE YOU ?

but wait......... i was going to say there's a difference between SATA3 and SATA6 cables but didn't want to confuse anybody.
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a c 349 G Storage
September 20, 2012 6:10:20 PM

There are a couple of points of confusion in all this.

1. OP says clearly that the external drive works fine when connected to his home desktop machine running Win 7 64-bit. This makes it obvious that the HDD unit inside the case can communicate properly with the board inside the case. That board includes both a HDD controller (probably a SATA system of some speed) and an interface to communicate between that controller system and the client computer via USB. So, communication speed of the HDD (1.5 or 3.0 Gb/s) is NOT an issue and no jumper needs to be adjusted. Also, the controller inside the case CAN deal properly with a large HDD.

2. In a system of an external HDD in an enclosure communicating with the client computer via USB, as far as I know the HDD controller is INSIDE the external enclosure as part of its electronics. Whatever HDD controller chips exist on the computer's mobo have NOTHING to do with that HDD in the external enclosure. Thus, whether or not the mobo controllers support higher communications speeds is irrelevant. More importantly, whether or not the mobo controllers have 48-bit LBA Support for use with large HDD's also is irrelevant. Hence, the suggestion of "update the BIOS of the mobo" is also irrelevant! The ONLY reason that a BIOS update is involved in using large HDD's mounted INTERNALLY is that the actual BIOS routines that run the mobo's HDD controller chips are included in the BIOS code. An update of the BIOS may well include that 48-bit LBA Support previously missing, which would enable use of large HDD's connected directly to the INTERNAL ports of the mobo. But that has nothing to do with EXTERNAL drives on a USB port!

OP, you asked, "Does SP3 contain all the fixes of SP1 & 2? " YES. SP3 contains everything from previous SP's, plus other updates. However, I will pass on one small note from my memory. At one time if you were updating from original Win XP, some people claimed that installing SP3 directly did not work. It was advised to install SP2 instead, the install SP3 after that as a further update. A two-step process. I do NOT know whether that advice is still correct.
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September 21, 2012 11:52:32 PM

misry said:
Just tossing this out there... Did you format the drive using GPT, (or GUID)? I know it's only 2TB but in Win7x64 it's an available option. If so XP won't see it.



Yeah Misry , done some time back so honestly do not remember - probably used the default formatting, whatever that might be.

More info: When connecting the drive to XP system, it is obvious that the system recognizes the drive as the anti-virus system advises scanning the drive before proceeding and it does scan the disk. Furthermore it show up in MYComputer and right click and select properties shows the the drive has zero free space with zero data etc. There are a number of files on the drive and they can be accessed on my Win7 system no probs.

Here is what I have found with the Fire Brigade system:
Win XP SP3 Ver: 2002; Pent Dual core CPU; E5200@2.5GHz; 2.50GHz, 1.99GB RM - This is interesting also as there are 2 RAM stiks @2GB each so the system is only recognizing one. They are a paired set (same brand, p/n, size etc)

Will have a tech take a look and see what the mother board is and if possible update the BIOS in the hope that it may help?
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September 22, 2012 12:01:40 AM

Paperdoc said:
There are a couple of points of confusion in all this.

1. OP says clearly that the external drive works fine when connected to his home desktop machine running Win 7 64-bit. This makes it obvious that the HDD unit inside the case can communicate properly with the board inside the case. That board includes both a HDD controller (probably a SATA system of some speed) and an interface to communicate between that controller system and the client computer via USB. So, communication speed of the HDD (1.5 or 3.0 Gb/s) is NOT an issue and no jumper needs to be adjusted. Also, the controller inside the case CAN deal properly with a large HDD.

2. In a system of an external HDD in an enclosure communicating with the client computer via USB, as far as I know the HDD controller is INSIDE the external enclosure as part of its electronics. Whatever HDD controller chips exist on the computer's mobo have NOTHING to do with that HDD in the external enclosure. Thus, whether or not the mobo controllers support higher communications speeds is irrelevant. More importantly, whether or not the mobo controllers have 48-bit LBA Support for use with large HDD's also is irrelevant. Hence, the suggestion of "update the BIOS of the mobo" is also irrelevant! The ONLY reason that a BIOS update is involved in using large HDD's mounted INTERNALLY is that the actual BIOS routines that run the mobo's HDD controller chips are included in the BIOS code. An update of the BIOS may well include that 48-bit LBA Support previously missing, which would enable use of large HDD's connected directly to the INTERNAL ports of the mobo. But that has nothing to do with EXTERNAL drives on a USB port!

OP, you asked, "Does SP3 contain all the fixes of SP1 & 2? " YES. SP3 contains everything from previous SP's, plus other updates. However, I will pass on one small note from my memory. At one time if you were updating from original Win XP, some people claimed that installing SP3 directly did not work. It was advised to install SP2 instead, the install SP3 after that as a further update. A two-step process. I do NOT know whether that advice is still correct.



G'day Paperdoc, thanks for your input and here is the information I found on the XP system yesterday that I posted in another reply - it is getting somewhat confusing with some of the posts but I will continue to troll through them unitl something comes up that I can uitize:

More info: When connecting the drive to XP system, it is obvious that the system recognizes the drive as the anti-virus system advises scanning the drive before proceeding and it does scan the disk. Furthermore it show up in MYComputer and right click and select properties shows the the drive has zero free space with zero data etc. There are a number of files on the drive and they can be accessed on my Win7 system no probs.

Here is what I have found with the Fire Brigade system:
Win XP SP3 Ver: 2002; Pent Dual core CPU; E5200@2.5GHz; 2.50GHz, 1.99GB RM - This is interesting also as there are 2 RAM stiks @2GB each so the system is only recognizing one. They are a paired set (same brand, p/n, size etc)
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a b G Storage
September 22, 2012 12:39:22 AM

i know the drive won't be recognized for it's full value.............. on the xp machine...........

you said you have files on it. you have these files stored somewhere else ? or can you write these to discs to save ?

........... reformat the drive on the xp machine..... NTFS. if it works and it is seen how much room does it show ? 137mb ?....... if all is well ( doubt ) load the files back on......... try to access.

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a b G Storage
September 22, 2012 12:46:39 AM

what is the motherboard name and model for that xp system also a 32 bits could not see 4 gig of memory did you try them one at the time to see if they both work,found this on usb drive http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330140
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September 22, 2012 1:10:41 AM

swifty_morgan said:
i know the drive won't be recognized for it's full value.............. on the xp machine...........

you said you have files on it. you have these files stored somewhere else ? or can you write these to discs to save ?

........... reformat the drive on the xp machine..... NTFS. if it works and it is seen how much room does it show ? 137mb ?....... if all is well ( doubt ) load the files back on......... try to access.



G'day Swifty, the XP system asks for it to be formatted but it will not perform a format on this drive.
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a b G Storage
September 22, 2012 1:17:23 AM

there's a surprise... LOL

i'm going to get bit in the behind for this but........... remember when I said pull the drive and jump the 1.5 and try to see if the drive is seen ... ???............... ( SATA to drive no external connections )

but I still think it isn't going to work ( would hope that it would )........... but the drive is too new and the old machine still won't see it right.
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a b G Storage
September 22, 2012 1:23:00 AM

Its not that old of a machine. My ex has a 2TB drive in her machine, x38 and E6600. I was expecting something a lot older. It has to be something in the USB, but I have no idea what.
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a b G Storage
September 22, 2012 1:28:13 AM

got a usb 3.0 card you can slip into that xp machine ? ( pci or pci-e )
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September 22, 2012 2:42:41 AM

swifty_morgan said:
got a usb 3.0 card you can slip into that xp machine ? ( pci or pci-e )



Nuh.... but could get one if you think it would do any good. Noting the 2TB drive is listed as USB2. documentation states compatible with Win XP, 2000, Vista and Mac. Drive is Neso (hard drive by Hitachi) Model is N2501S
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September 22, 2012 11:41:27 AM

May be your USB HD sector size is not 512byte
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a b G Storage
September 22, 2012 12:52:05 PM

I'll have think about this more...... when I'm awake.... but back in the day, and on occasion still.......... if you try to plug usb mice into some older machines they won't work. you have to dig up an old mouse with ps2 connectors so you can use one until the machine boots so you can put the usb mouse in to be found......... crazy but simple............. try a different usb cord have you ?
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a b G Storage
September 23, 2012 5:42:01 PM

in all seriousness now, anything new ? my curiosity is spiking.
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October 3, 2012 6:03:57 AM

ELMO_2006 said:
@ swifty_morgan...

The OP mentioned that the HDD is an external unit so I'm perplexed about the *move the jumper to slave* thingy.

Hi vicb...

I assume that this external HDD is USB2.0 and was wondering if the USB ports on the XP desktop are operational. Have you tried to connect a USB stick to see if that works?


Hi ELMO,
Going back through the thread and replying to those that I am unsure of doing so earlier and for that I apologise.

Yes. External 2TB 3.5" 'NESO' with Hitachi HDD. All USB ports have been checked and found working.

As stated; this drive works on my WIN7 HP laptop.

Still no luck with this particular machine though.
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October 3, 2012 6:19:22 AM

Paperdoc said:
There are a couple of points of confusion in all this.

1. OP says clearly that the external drive works fine when connected to his home desktop machine running Win 7 64-bit. This makes it obvious that the HDD unit inside the case can communicate properly with the board inside the case. That board includes both a HDD controller (probably a SATA system of some speed) and an interface to communicate between that controller system and the client computer via USB. So, communication speed of the HDD (1.5 or 3.0 Gb/s) is NOT an issue and no jumper needs to be adjusted. Also, the controller inside the case CAN deal properly with a large HDD.

2. In a system of an external HDD in an enclosure communicating with the client computer via USB, as far as I know the HDD controller is INSIDE the external enclosure as part of its electronics. Whatever HDD controller chips exist on the computer's mobo have NOTHING to do with that HDD in the external enclosure. Thus, whether or not the mobo controllers support higher communications speeds is irrelevant. More importantly, whether or not the mobo controllers have 48-bit LBA Support for use with large HDD's also is irrelevant. Hence, the suggestion of "update the BIOS of the mobo" is also irrelevant! The ONLY reason that a BIOS update is involved in using large HDD's mounted INTERNALLY is that the actual BIOS routines that run the mobo's HDD controller chips are included in the BIOS code. An update of the BIOS may well include that 48-bit LBA Support previously missing, which would enable use of large HDD's connected directly to the INTERNAL ports of the mobo. But that has nothing to do with EXTERNAL drives on a USB port!

OP, you asked, "Does SP3 contain all the fixes of SP1 & 2? " YES. SP3 contains everything from previous SP's, plus other updates. However, I will pass on one small note from my memory. At one time if you were updating from original Win XP, some people claimed that installing SP3 directly did not work. It was advised to install SP2 instead, the install SP3 after that as a further update. A two-step process. I do NOT know whether that advice is still correct.


Hi Paperdoc,

Checked this XP system and it has been updated via MS site with all three service packs (1+2+3).
The 'NESO' 2TB drive indicates compatibility with XP but still cannot read any data on drive. XP reports that there are ZERO files on the drive (not true) and ZERO bytes available (also not true).

Still not able to access this drive via XP system at station. Investigations tell me that this is system is only 2 Y.O. and they opted for XP (home) 2002 SP1-3 installed as above, so that they maintain compatibility with the systems used by the various govt depts that it is necessary for them to communicate with.
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October 3, 2012 6:23:23 AM

scout_03 said:
what is the motherboard name and model for that xp system also a 32 bits could not see 4 gig of memory did you try them one at the time to see if they both work,found this on usb drive http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330140



Hi Scout, Yes, both sticks read fine when installed separately but are not recognised when installed together. As far as identifying the internals, still waiting our tech to return from holidays to take a look.
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a b G Storage
October 3, 2012 9:32:55 AM

Interesting problem indeed. I would say copy the files off and let XP format it, but if I remember the thread correctly XP hangs when it tries to do that.

Can you copy the files off and "zero fill" the drive? Then let XP format it? Only other idea I have is to pull it and put it in the XP computer and see what happens.
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