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When will 20D price go down?

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Anonymous
December 21, 2004 1:04:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Will it be after Xmas, or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a used 10D for
around $750-$800 and have enough left over in my budget to get either the Sigma
12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D and use they 18-55 on my
D-Rebel.About the only significant difference I can see is the extra 2mp. Are
they worth thje extra bucks?

More about : 20d price

December 21, 2004 1:04:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

George Johnston wrote:
> Will it be after Xmas, or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a
used 10D for
> around $750-$800 and have enough left over in my budget to get either
the Sigma
> 12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D and use they 18-55 on
my
> D-Rebel.About the only significant difference I can see is the extra
2mp. Are
> they worth thje extra bucks?

I don't know when the price will be coming down on the 20D but I expect
significant drops will occur when Canon brings out the next version
(30D?). The 10D takes great pictures and only has one annoying problem
which is the start up time after the camera goes to sleep. You can
change the time lenght that it's on before it powers off in the menu
for periods up to 30 minutes. Unchanged this is really annoying if you
shoot wildlife because it takes a while to power up and you can loose
the shot.

Canon hasn't solved the problem of correct flash exposure on the 10D in
the new 20D. The flash function with my 550 EX is wierd. it gets it
right sometime and most time it's under exposed. I've read posts in
this group that it's still happening with the 20D even with the new 580
EX flash.

I have to 10D and I'm getting the 20D for Christmas. I've followed the
comments in this group and their is the normal excitement about new
cameras when the 20D came out and people were switching. Then you start
to see comments about the flash problems and such. I bought the 20D
because I do a lot of wildlife photography and I will be interested in
the upgrade in images I will see if any. I can tell you the images from
my 10D blow me and the people that see them away.

The one advantage to the 20D is some improvement in noise reduction
although the 10D does a fine job up to ISO 800. The 20D is supposed to
be better and really good up to ISO 1600.

Art
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 4:33:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"George Johnston" <nmjohnston874@aol.comsebring> wrote in message
news:20041221050455.16116.00002681@mb-m02.aol.com...
> Will it be after Xmas, or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a used
> 10D for
> around $750-$800 and have enough left over in my budget to get either the
> Sigma
> 12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D and use they 18-55 on my
> D-Rebel.About the only significant difference I can see is the extra 2mp.
> Are
> they worth thje extra bucks?

I had the 10d and now have the 20d. One thing I have really noticed along
with the extra resolution is a much better contrast. I hardly have to play
with it much compared to the 10d.
Related resources
December 21, 2004 5:01:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

The price always go down when the camera (or whatever) becomes hard to sell
at the
current price. For tech stuff, that usually means whenever a competing
product is busting
it in the chops or when the product is perceived as either old or unpopular.
The 20D is
pretty new and pretty desirable in the Canon camp...give it another six
months.

George

"George Johnston" <nmjohnston874@aol.comsebring> wrote in message
news:20041221050455.16116.00002681@mb-m02.aol.com...
> Will it be after Xmas, or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a used
10D for
> around $750-$800 and have enough left over in my budget to get either the
Sigma
> 12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D and use they 18-55 on my
> D-Rebel.About the only significant difference I can see is the extra 2mp.
Are
> they worth thje extra bucks?
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 6:53:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

nmjohnston874@aol.comsebring (George Johnston) wrote in
news:20041221050455.16116.00002681@mb-m02.aol.com:

> Will it be after Xmas, or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a
> used 10D for around $750-$800 and have enough left over in my budget
> to get either the Sigma 12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D
> and use they 18-55 on my D-Rebel.About the only significant difference
> I can see is the extra 2mp. Are they worth thje extra bucks?

No.

The far superior speed, godawfully better ergonomics, better autofocus,
better manual focus screen, review images while still writing the buffer,
ability to save a RAW and JPEG copy simultaneously, ETTL-2, low-noise high
ISO simulation, these are worth *more* than the price difference to most
professional shooters.

Basically, everything was improved in the 20D. Some a little, some a lot.

Your text seems to imply you already have a DRebel. If so, and you're not
making money off of your shots, skip a new body altogether and pick up new
lenses. This will improve your work more. Ten or eighteen months down the
line the prices will be lower on the bodies and you can upgrade then.
December 21, 2004 6:53:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Eric Gill wrote:
> nmjohnston874@aol.comsebring (George Johnston) wrote in
> news:20041221050455.16116.00002681@mb-m02.aol.com:
>
>
>>Will it be after Xmas, or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a
>>used 10D for around $750-$800 and have enough left over in my budget
>>to get either the Sigma 12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D
>>and use they 18-55 on my D-Rebel.About the only significant difference
>>I can see is the extra 2mp. Are they worth thje extra bucks?
>
>
> No.
>
> The far superior speed, godawfully better ergonomics, better autofocus,
> better manual focus screen, review images while still writing the buffer,
> ability to save a RAW and JPEG copy simultaneously, ETTL-2, low-noise high
> ISO simulation, these are worth *more* than the price difference to most
> professional shooters.
>
> Basically, everything was improved in the 20D. Some a little, some a lot.
>
> Your text seems to imply you already have a DRebel. If so, and you're not
> making money off of your shots, skip a new body altogether and pick up new
> lenses. This will improve your work more. Ten or eighteen months down the
> line the prices will be lower on the bodies and you can upgrade then.


If the DRebel works for you, you might as well save the money and pick
up some good lenses, such as 17-40/4L or 70-200/4L. However, I just
upgraded from DR and 20D and it's really worth the price difference,
like magnesium body and more important, 20D is FAST, even when comparing
to 10D, especially if you use RAW. I don't think you would gain much by
upgrading from DRebel to an used 10D. Get the 20D or skip it altogether.
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 8:22:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 21 Dec 2004 10:04:55 GMT, nmjohnston874@aol.comsebring (George
Johnston) wrote:

>Will it be after Xmas,

Yes

>or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a used 10D for
>around $750-$800

I can find a new one on line for that

>nd have enough left over in my budget to get either the Sigma
>12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D and use they 18-55 on my
>D-Rebel.About the only significant difference I can see is the extra 2mp. Are
>they worth thje extra bucks?

Not if that is all you can see
December 22, 2004 1:46:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I think the prices should go way down as there is too many problems coming
out, Flash too dark, banding in the pictures, the new flash580 still wont
work right, handheld grip doesn't work right, locks up, focus is soft, goes
on and on. I know some have found fixes for these problems, like setting
the exposure up one click when using the flash, but this should be right the
first time, this is what auto is for, but these are Band-Aids, hell my Nikon
5700 never had any of these problems. For 1500 bucks it should be right the
first time.I bet FedEx trucks are lining up at the Canons repair shops. I
might weight for the next model as it seems like Canon is using the people
to find bugs out.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 1:46:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steve" <SB@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8J1yd.791749$8_6.425515@attbi_s04...
>I think the prices should go way down as there is too many problems coming
> out, Flash too dark, banding in the pictures, the new flash580 still wont
> work right, handheld grip doesn't work right, locks up, focus is soft,
> goes
> on and on. I know some have found fixes for these problems, like setting
> the exposure up one click when using the flash, but this should be right
> the
> first time, this is what auto is for, but these are Band-Aids, hell my
> Nikon
> 5700 never had any of these problems. For 1500 bucks it should be right
> the
> first time.I bet FedEx trucks are lining up at the Canons repair shops. I
> might weight for the next model as it seems like Canon is using the people
> to find bugs out.
>
>
>
>
>
A lot of the problems are either solved, or the creation of the user. Soft
focus is one of the latter. There were some backfocus problems with certain
cameras, just like there was with the 10D, but most of the soft focus is the
fault of cheap lenses or poor technique.
Banding in the pictures was only evident when taking long exposures using
the on camera flash. How many people do that? One had to work hard to
duplicate it, and it would be an issue for 99% of the photographers out
there.
OTOH, I agree with the assessment of the flash, they solved some problems,
but in doing so, seem to have created more. The exposure problems seem to
be only with Canon flashes, I get perfect exposures with Quantum T4d
flashes, consistent underexposure with either my 420EX or my wife's former
580EX, now returned to the dealer. The flash, not my wife! <G>

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
December 22, 2004 1:46:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Skip M wrote:
> "Steve" <SB@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:8J1yd.791749$8_6.425515@attbi_s04...
>
>>I think the prices should go way down as there is too many problems coming
>>out, Flash too dark, banding in the pictures, the new flash580 still wont
>>work right, handheld grip doesn't work right, locks up, focus is soft,
>>goes
>>on and on. I know some have found fixes for these problems, like setting
>>the exposure up one click when using the flash, but this should be right
>>the
>>first time, this is what auto is for, but these are Band-Aids, hell my
>>Nikon
>>5700 never had any of these problems. For 1500 bucks it should be right
>>the
>>first time.I bet FedEx trucks are lining up at the Canons repair shops. I
>>might weight for the next model as it seems like Canon is using the people
>>to find bugs out.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> A lot of the problems are either solved, or the creation of the user. Soft
> focus is one of the latter. There were some backfocus problems with certain
> cameras, just like there was with the 10D, but most of the soft focus is the
> fault of cheap lenses or poor technique.
> Banding in the pictures was only evident when taking long exposures using
> the on camera flash. How many people do that? One had to work hard to
> duplicate it, and it would be an issue for 99% of the photographers out
> there.
> OTOH, I agree with the assessment of the flash, they solved some problems,
> but in doing so, seem to have created more. The exposure problems seem to
> be only with Canon flashes, I get perfect exposures with Quantum T4d
> flashes, consistent underexposure with either my 420EX or my wife's former
> 580EX, now returned to the dealer. The flash, not my wife! <G>


I did a little digging on the Internet about Canon E-TTL.
The phenomenon is called NEVEC.
http://eosdoc.com/manuals.asp?q=NEVEC

I don't know if changing custom function 14 would correct the issue. I
sent in my 20D for a replacement so I can't test that myself.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 1:46:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"leo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:cqahm201nsp@news1.newsguy.com...
> Skip M wrote:
>> "Steve" <SB@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:8J1yd.791749$8_6.425515@attbi_s04...
>>
>>>I think the prices should go way down as there is too many problems
>>>coming
>>>out, Flash too dark, banding in the pictures, the new flash580 still wont
>>>work right, handheld grip doesn't work right, locks up, focus is soft,
>>>goes
>>>on and on. I know some have found fixes for these problems, like setting
>>>the exposure up one click when using the flash, but this should be right
>>>the
>>>first time, this is what auto is for, but these are Band-Aids, hell my
>>>Nikon
>>>5700 never had any of these problems. For 1500 bucks it should be right
>>>the
>>>first time.I bet FedEx trucks are lining up at the Canons repair shops. I
>>>might weight for the next model as it seems like Canon is using the
>>>people
>>>to find bugs out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> A lot of the problems are either solved, or the creation of the user.
>> Soft focus is one of the latter. There were some backfocus problems with
>> certain cameras, just like there was with the 10D, but most of the soft
>> focus is the fault of cheap lenses or poor technique.
>> Banding in the pictures was only evident when taking long exposures using
>> the on camera flash. How many people do that? One had to work hard to
>> duplicate it, and it would be an issue for 99% of the photographers out
>> there.
>> OTOH, I agree with the assessment of the flash, they solved some
>> problems, but in doing so, seem to have created more. The exposure
>> problems seem to be only with Canon flashes, I get perfect exposures with
>> Quantum T4d flashes, consistent underexposure with either my 420EX or my
>> wife's former 580EX, now returned to the dealer. The flash, not my wife!
>> <G>
>
>
> I did a little digging on the Internet about Canon E-TTL.
> The phenomenon is called NEVEC.
> http://eosdoc.com/manuals.asp?q=NEVEC
>
> I don't know if changing custom function 14 would correct the issue. I
> sent in my 20D for a replacement so I can't test that myself.


It can be solved on the 580EX and 550EX by turning off the Fill Flash
Reduction, I've been told. But E-TTL II Average or Evaluative Metering
doesn't have much effect, Average does seem to be a little better in some
situations.
The EOSDOC article seems to be a pretty accurate description of the
situation. I never had this problem with my A2 and 1n and the 540EZ, and
the D30 seemed to be pretty good, too, but I use it mostly in fill
situations with the 420EX.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
December 22, 2004 1:46:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Skip M wrote:
> "leo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
> news:cqahm201nsp@news1.newsguy.com...
>
>>Skip M wrote:
>>
>>>"Steve" <SB@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:8J1yd.791749$8_6.425515@attbi_s04...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think the prices should go way down as there is too many problems
>>>>coming
>>>>out, Flash too dark, banding in the pictures, the new flash580 still wont
>>>>work right, handheld grip doesn't work right, locks up, focus is soft,
>>>>goes
>>>>on and on. I know some have found fixes for these problems, like setting
>>>>the exposure up one click when using the flash, but this should be right
>>>>the
>>>>first time, this is what auto is for, but these are Band-Aids, hell my
>>>>Nikon
>>>>5700 never had any of these problems. For 1500 bucks it should be right
>>>>the
>>>>first time.I bet FedEx trucks are lining up at the Canons repair shops. I
>>>>might weight for the next model as it seems like Canon is using the
>>>>people
>>>>to find bugs out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>A lot of the problems are either solved, or the creation of the user.
>>>Soft focus is one of the latter. There were some backfocus problems with
>>>certain cameras, just like there was with the 10D, but most of the soft
>>>focus is the fault of cheap lenses or poor technique.
>>>Banding in the pictures was only evident when taking long exposures using
>>>the on camera flash. How many people do that? One had to work hard to
>>>duplicate it, and it would be an issue for 99% of the photographers out
>>>there.
>>>OTOH, I agree with the assessment of the flash, they solved some
>>>problems, but in doing so, seem to have created more. The exposure
>>>problems seem to be only with Canon flashes, I get perfect exposures with
>>>Quantum T4d flashes, consistent underexposure with either my 420EX or my
>>>wife's former 580EX, now returned to the dealer. The flash, not my wife!
>>><G>
>>
>>
>>I did a little digging on the Internet about Canon E-TTL.
>>The phenomenon is called NEVEC.
>>http://eosdoc.com/manuals.asp?q=NEVEC
>>
>>I don't know if changing custom function 14 would correct the issue. I
>>sent in my 20D for a replacement so I can't test that myself.
>
>
>
> It can be solved on the 580EX and 550EX by turning off the Fill Flash
> Reduction, I've been told. But E-TTL II Average or Evaluative Metering
> doesn't have much effect, Average does seem to be a little better in some
> situations.
> The EOSDOC article seems to be a pretty accurate description of the
> situation. I never had this problem with my A2 and 1n and the 540EZ, and
> the D30 seemed to be pretty good, too, but I use it mostly in fill
> situations with the 420EX.


There is no Fill Flash Reduction on 580EX AFAIK.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 1:46:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"leo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:cqaqe50oq3@news3.newsguy.com...
> Skip M wrote:
>> "leo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
>> news:cqahm201nsp@news1.newsguy.com...
>>
>>>Skip M wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Steve" <SB@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:8J1yd.791749$8_6.425515@attbi_s04...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I think the prices should go way down as there is too many problems
>>>>>coming
>>>>>out, Flash too dark, banding in the pictures, the new flash580 still
>>>>>wont
>>>>>work right, handheld grip doesn't work right, locks up, focus is soft,
>>>>>goes
>>>>>on and on. I know some have found fixes for these problems, like
>>>>>setting
>>>>>the exposure up one click when using the flash, but this should be
>>>>>right the
>>>>>first time, this is what auto is for, but these are Band-Aids, hell my
>>>>>Nikon
>>>>>5700 never had any of these problems. For 1500 bucks it should be right
>>>>>the
>>>>>first time.I bet FedEx trucks are lining up at the Canons repair shops.
>>>>>I
>>>>>might weight for the next model as it seems like Canon is using the
>>>>>people
>>>>>to find bugs out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>A lot of the problems are either solved, or the creation of the user.
>>>>Soft focus is one of the latter. There were some backfocus problems
>>>>with certain cameras, just like there was with the 10D, but most of the
>>>>soft focus is the fault of cheap lenses or poor technique.
>>>>Banding in the pictures was only evident when taking long exposures
>>>>using the on camera flash. How many people do that? One had to work
>>>>hard to duplicate it, and it would be an issue for 99% of the
>>>>photographers out there.
>>>>OTOH, I agree with the assessment of the flash, they solved some
>>>>problems, but in doing so, seem to have created more. The exposure
>>>>problems seem to be only with Canon flashes, I get perfect exposures
>>>>with Quantum T4d flashes, consistent underexposure with either my 420EX
>>>>or my wife's former 580EX, now returned to the dealer. The flash, not
>>>>my wife! <G>
>>>
>>>
>>>I did a little digging on the Internet about Canon E-TTL.
>>>The phenomenon is called NEVEC.
>>>http://eosdoc.com/manuals.asp?q=NEVEC
>>>
>>>I don't know if changing custom function 14 would correct the issue. I
>>>sent in my 20D for a replacement so I can't test that myself.
>>
>>
>>
>> It can be solved on the 580EX and 550EX by turning off the Fill Flash
>> Reduction, I've been told. But E-TTL II Average or Evaluative Metering
>> doesn't have much effect, Average does seem to be a little better in some
>> situations.
>> The EOSDOC article seems to be a pretty accurate description of the
>> situation. I never had this problem with my A2 and 1n and the 540EZ, and
>> the D30 seemed to be pretty good, too, but I use it mostly in fill
>> situations with the 420EX.
>
>
> There is no Fill Flash Reduction on 580EX AFAIK.

I thought there was, I can't check, since I no longer have the flash. There
sure isn't on the 420EX, that's for sure! <G>

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 3:49:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote in message
news:QO2yd.5070$JI.4383@fed1read07...
> >
> A lot of the problems are either solved, or the creation of the user.
Soft
> focus is one of the latter. There were some backfocus problems with
certain
> cameras, just like there was with the 10D, but most of the soft focus is
the
> fault of cheap lenses or poor technique.
> Banding in the pictures was only evident when taking long exposures using
> the on camera flash. How many people do that? One had to work hard to
> duplicate it, and it would be an issue for 99% of the photographers out
> there.
> OTOH, I agree with the assessment of the flash, they solved some problems,
> but in doing so, seem to have created more. The exposure problems seem to
> be only with Canon flashes, I get perfect exposures with Quantum T4d
> flashes, consistent underexposure with either my 420EX or my wife's former
> 580EX, now returned to the dealer. The flash, not my wife! <G>

Hey, Skip, my wife bought me the 580EX for Xmas, and I opened it early so
that I could start using it and get used to it. So far I haven't seen any
of these exposure problems with it. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised
when I put it through some paces to see what it would do. I also haven't
had any of the problems with the 20D that others have reported. I'm
wondering why some of you are having problems, and I'm not. I wonder if it
is a design problem that involves timing? I know that if electronic
equipment is not designed properly, some units will work, and some won't.
Some will work under certain conditions like outside normal temperature
ranges, others won't. Maybe I lucked out and don't have those problems.

Clyde Torres
December 22, 2004 3:50:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"leo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:cq9q5q02jd9@news3.newsguy.com...
> Eric Gill wrote:
> > nmjohnston874@aol.comsebring (George Johnston) wrote in
> > news:20041221050455.16116.00002681@mb-m02.aol.com:
> >
> >
> >>Will it be after Xmas, or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a
> >>used 10D for around $750-$800 and have enough left over in my budget
> >>to get either the Sigma 12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D
> >>and use they 18-55 on my D-Rebel.About the only significant difference
> >>I can see is the extra 2mp. Are they worth thje extra bucks?
> >
> >
> > No.
> >
> > The far superior speed, godawfully better ergonomics, better autofocus,
> > better manual focus screen, review images while still writing the
buffer,
> > ability to save a RAW and JPEG copy simultaneously, ETTL-2, low-noise
high
> > ISO simulation, these are worth *more* than the price difference to most
> > professional shooters.
> >
> > Basically, everything was improved in the 20D. Some a little, some a
lot.
> >
> > Your text seems to imply you already have a DRebel. If so, and you're
not
> > making money off of your shots, skip a new body altogether and pick up
new
> > lenses. This will improve your work more. Ten or eighteen months down
the
> > line the prices will be lower on the bodies and you can upgrade then.
>
>
> If the DRebel works for you, you might as well save the money and pick
> up some good lenses, such as 17-40/4L or 70-200/4L. However, I just
> upgraded from DR and 20D and it's really worth the price difference,
> like magnesium body and more important, 20D is FAST, even when comparing
> to 10D, especially if you use RAW. I don't think you would gain much by
> upgrading from DRebel to an used 10D. Get the 20D or skip it altogether.

I agree with Eric and Leo. The 20D compared to the 10D is FAST, FAST, FAST
(I played with a 10D for about a week before buying 20D).

I like to use the analogy of the C6 Corvette compared to the C5. Its not a
revolutionary change, but every individual functionality has been improved.
All those incremental improvements add up to a much better camera "in the
field". The faster AF and writes times (including RAW+JPEG), make it
worthwile enough. The 20D is what the 10D should have been (but wasn't due
to cost of technology at the time).

Back on topic, if you look at 10D, it only got cheaper once 20D came out, so
I would expect the same thing. When 30D comes out, price should fall a few
$100's. But keep in mind that for $1500, an entry level pro-body will meet
plenty of demand, meaning that Canon will have no incentive to lower price.
20D's are selling like hot-cakes. With most of the 10D kinks ironed out, the
20D should expect a fairly long life. In many ways I see a 20D for $1500
much better value than a 10D for $1000.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 12:03:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <Vw3yd.183472$6w6.143171@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
"Clyde Torres" <clyde_torres@hotmale.com> wrote:

> my wife bought me the 580EX for Xmas, and I opened it early so
> that I could start using it and get used to it. So far I haven't seen any
> of these exposure problems with it. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised
> when I put it through some paces to see what it would do. I also haven't
> had any of the problems with the 20D that others have reported. I'm
> wondering why some of you are having problems, and I'm not. I wonder if it
> is a design problem that involves timing? I know that if electronic
> equipment is not designed properly, some units will work, and some won't.
> Some will work under certain conditions like outside normal temperature
> ranges, others won't. Maybe I lucked out and don't have those problems.

I'm with you. I really gave the 580EX a good burn-in Saturday night and, with
a possible, few exceptions, all frames received proper flash exposure. Of
course, one's "proper" flash exposure is another's "lousy" flash exposure.
<sigh>

Heck, I ought to post the really cool two-frame sequence I shot outdoors the
other night: Mounted to my tripod, I photographed my neighbor's home and
Christmas lights. I accidentally left the 580EX turned on for the first shot.
I turned it off and exposed a second frame with ambient light. The morph
effect between the first frame and the second is remarkable.

To the point, however, is that the 580EX *FULLY* illuminated the entire front
of this almost-large home - from the street about 70-feet away - hours after
sunset. Big power.

So far, I am pretty much leaving everything set to default, but am beginning
to collect RAW images as backups for what I keep. I have yet to RTFM on the
580EX.
:) 
JR
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 12:03:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Jim Redelfs" <jim.redelfs@redelfs.com> wrote in message
news:jim.redelfs-E175E5.09032622122004@news.central.cox.net...
> In article <Vw3yd.183472$6w6.143171@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
> "Clyde Torres" <clyde_torres@hotmale.com> wrote:
>
>> my wife bought me the 580EX for Xmas, and I opened it early so
>> that I could start using it and get used to it. So far I haven't seen
>> any
>> of these exposure problems with it. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised
>> when I put it through some paces to see what it would do. I also haven't
>> had any of the problems with the 20D that others have reported. I'm
>> wondering why some of you are having problems, and I'm not. I wonder if
>> it
>> is a design problem that involves timing? I know that if electronic
>> equipment is not designed properly, some units will work, and some won't.
>> Some will work under certain conditions like outside normal temperature
>> ranges, others won't. Maybe I lucked out and don't have those problems.
>
> I'm with you. I really gave the 580EX a good burn-in Saturday night and,
> with
> a possible, few exceptions, all frames received proper flash exposure. Of
> course, one's "proper" flash exposure is another's "lousy" flash exposure.
> <sigh>
>
> Heck, I ought to post the really cool two-frame sequence I shot outdoors
> the
> other night: Mounted to my tripod, I photographed my neighbor's home and
> Christmas lights. I accidentally left the 580EX turned on for the first
> shot.
> I turned it off and exposed a second frame with ambient light. The morph
> effect between the first frame and the second is remarkable.
>
> To the point, however, is that the 580EX *FULLY* illuminated the entire
> front
> of this almost-large home - from the street about 70-feet away - hours
> after
> sunset. Big power.
>
> So far, I am pretty much leaving everything set to default, but am
> beginning
> to collect RAW images as backups for what I keep. I have yet to RTFM on
> the
> 580EX.
> :) 
> JR


Our problems were in situations where there was almost enough light for a
good exposure, but not quite enough. Fill flash was perfect, the flash as
primary or sole light source, perfect. But indoors with normal room
lighting, a full stop under.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 12:12:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1C6yd.7345$JI.7061@fed1read07>, "Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net>
wrote:

> > There is no Fill Flash Reduction on 580EX AFAIK.
>
> I thought there was

I just gave the manual a pretty good "going over" and didn't find a "real"
index. Nor did I find word one mention of "fill", much less "fill flash". I
wonder if I missed it. Would it be covered in Flash Exposure Compensation?

:) 
JR
December 22, 2004 12:25:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Skip,

I never had flash problems with my Canon 1N and the 540EZ flash. I'm
constantly getting under exposed pictures with the 10D and the 550 Ex
flash especially indoors. Based on your earlier post should I turn off
the fill flash function in the camera ( custom Function C.fn-14) ?
Thanks, Art
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 3:46:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<arthurw@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1103736352.175750.24420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Skip,
>
> I never had flash problems with my Canon 1N and the 540EZ flash. I'm
> constantly getting under exposed pictures with the 10D and the 550 Ex
> flash especially indoors. Based on your earlier post should I turn off
> the fill flash function in the camera ( custom Function C.fn-14) ?
> Thanks, Art
>

I was looking for that function on my 20D, CF14 is metering on that one, not
fill flash reduction as on others. Thanks, I thought I was losing it, I
remembered it from other cameras.
I've been told that turning it off will help, but I haven't been able to.
Funny how the old A-TTL cameras worked just fine, isn't it? I have an A2
and 1n with the 540EZ, and like you, no problems...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 12:27:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"George Johnston" <nmjohnston874@aol.comsebring> wrote in message
news:20041221050455.16116.00002681@mb-m02.aol.com...
> Will it be after Xmas, or longer? I am at a dilemma -- I can buy a used
> 10D for
> around $750-$800 and have enough left over in my budget to get either the
> Sigma
> 12-24 or Tokina 12-24. . Or I can buy the 20D and use they 18-55 on my
> D-Rebel.About the only significant difference I can see is the extra 2mp.
> Are
> they worth thje extra bucks?

The 10D stayed at about the same price throughout its production. As did
the D60 and the D30. Don't expect any drastic price drop till the next one
comes out. If you don't need the 20D extra shooting rate buy the 10D as it
is now being discounted.
--
For Welsh Military Flying visit .......
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/V-A-S/
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 4:13:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Skip,

Fill flash reduction is a custom funtion on the 10D but I just looked
in the 20D maual and couldn't find it there. I shot about 20 pictures
with the 20D last night that I got for Christmas and the flash is no
better then on the 10D. All the pictures were under exposed so I guess
I will have to re-learn manual flash shooting. The real pisser is my
Wife's Canon G6 takes excellent flash pictures. The subject is always
properly illuminated and the background can be dark because the flash
is fairly weak. On the 10D and 20D the whole picture is underexposed by
at least 1 stop. it's rather disturbing that Canon can get it right on
a point and shoot and not a DSLR.

Art
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 1:38:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Kibo informs me that leo <someone@somewhere.net> stated that:

>If the DRebel works for you, you might as well save the money and pick
>up some good lenses, such as 17-40/4L or 70-200/4L. However, I just
>upgraded from DR and 20D and it's really worth the price difference,
>like magnesium body and more important, 20D is FAST, even when comparing
>to 10D, especially if you use RAW.

This is a point of great interest to me. Looking at the spec's of the
20D, it seems to have a huge buffer for JPEG shots, but a tiny one for
RAW shots - even smaller than the 10D. Is that actually true, or are you
finding you get a reasonable amount of RAW shots in the 20D buffer?

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
December 26, 2004 1:39:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

usenet@imagenoir.com wrote:
> Kibo informs me that leo <someone@somewhere.net> stated that:
>
>
>>If the DRebel works for you, you might as well save the money and pick
>>up some good lenses, such as 17-40/4L or 70-200/4L. However, I just
>>upgraded from DR and 20D and it's really worth the price difference,
>>like magnesium body and more important, 20D is FAST, even when comparing
>>to 10D, especially if you use RAW.
>
>
> This is a point of great interest to me. Looking at the spec's of the
> 20D, it seems to have a huge buffer for JPEG shots, but a tiny one for
> RAW shots - even smaller than the 10D. Is that actually true, or are you
> finding you get a reasonable amount of RAW shots in the 20D buffer?

The physical buffer size possibly remains the same but bear in mind that
20D is 8.2MP and 10D is 6.3MP. Once the buffer is full, 20D can shovel
the data to the CF card quickly. 10D is slow. 300D is unbearable. You
can shoot at 1fps after the buffer's full with 20D. With 10D and 20D,
once the buffer is full, the camera would be tied up for many seconds.
Anonymous
December 26, 2004 9:35:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Fyimo" <arthurw@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1104009229.947458.139810@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Skip,
>
> Fill flash reduction is a custom funtion on the 10D but I just looked
> in the 20D maual and couldn't find it there. I shot about 20 pictures
> with the 20D last night that I got for Christmas and the flash is no
> better then on the 10D. All the pictures were under exposed so I guess
> I will have to re-learn manual flash shooting. The real pisser is my
> Wife's Canon G6 takes excellent flash pictures. The subject is always
> properly illuminated and the background can be dark because the flash
> is fairly weak. On the 10D and 20D the whole picture is underexposed by
> at least 1 stop. it's rather disturbing that Canon can get it right on
> a point and shoot and not a DSLR.
>
> Art
>

It's disturbing that Canon can get it right with a system that supposedly
has limitations, but when they try to improve on it, they introduce more
problems. It's also disturbing that I get better exposures with a non Canon
flash (Quantum) than I do Canon's own top of the line, new flash (580EX).
And why in the heck would they remove the fill flash reduction from the
custom functions, when it's been on their DSLRs for years??

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
!