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Why ppl compare 5870 with GTX 480??

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June 11, 2010 4:22:59 AM

Hi

This thing has always confused me.

They compare ATI 5870 with GTX 480 and say 480 performs better and Nvidia is clear winner.

Same thing with SLI and Crossfire thing. They put 2X Radeon 5870 in Crossfire with other Nvidia cards in SLI.

So its like ATi 5970 is the fastest ATI card, so why don't they compare it with GTX 480 or even put in Crossfire and see the benchmarks??
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 4:37:04 AM

The 5970 is two cards. Simple as that.

Also, you gotta remember ATI skipped two generations on nVidia.

HD4850 - GTS250
HD4870 - GTX260
HD4890 - GTX275

HD5830 - GTX465
HD5850 - GTX470
HD5870 - GTX480
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June 11, 2010 4:46:39 AM

what exactly does 2 cards means???
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a b U Graphics card
June 11, 2010 4:53:04 AM

The 5970 actually has TWO GPUs on the board. its essentially a crossfire setup in its own right.

the 480 is better than a 5870, but the 5970 is better again. its not really contested, its jsut that a dual GPU card doesn't really need to be mentioned. its obviously going to be better.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 4:53:13 AM

Two GPU's on one PCB as opposed to the GTX 480 which only has one GPU on one PCB.

Edit: Beaten by welshmousepk :lol: 
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 5:44:07 AM

I personally don't care whats under the hood. I don't care if its two GPUs, or the dust of magic bunnies that powers a card. What matters is the price and the features. Set the cards up by price and compare performance on that. In the case of a tie features should be next. If AMD wants to price the 5870 at the GTX470, let them.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 5:46:55 AM

4745454b said:
I personally don't care whats under the hood. I don't care if its two GPUs, or the dust of magic bunnies that powers a card. What matters is the price and the features. Set the cards up by price and compare performance on that. In the case of a tie features should be next. If AMD wants to price the 5870 at the GTX470, let them.

But the OP seems to have noticed that the review sites that chuck out these benchmarks don't appear to agree with you on how cards should be compared, not everyone shares the idea of what a "Flagship Card" is.
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June 11, 2010 5:52:38 AM

well but still their are 2 GPU's in 1 PCB, so its kinda a single card, so it can still be considered as the fastest graphic card, isn't it?
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a b U Graphics card
June 11, 2010 6:25:31 AM

I will never understand the "It has 2 GPUS on one card, so it can't be compared to the other sides flagship" argument.

I have seen both camps use that argument when it is convienant for them to point out how much 'better' their camps card is.

IMO you can compare whatever card you want with whatever card, it's price for that performance that should only be compared. The fanboi antics is lam3.
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June 11, 2010 6:44:29 AM

Of course, you can compare them. And the fact that it has 2 gpu's doesnt mean that it is not a single card. It is a single card with 2 gpus on it but even that doesnt matter.

If nVidia could stick 2 gtx480 on a single pcb they would, but i would melt pretty quickly
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a c 125 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 9:58:57 AM

Of course you can compare a GTX480 to a HD5970... it doesn't matter if it has 1 or 2 or even 50 cores, it still only uses 2 PCI-E brackets/Slots they both use about the same amount of power and when someone is considering what to spend their money on their not going to care if it its a dual GPU card or not, they want to know the price/performance compared to the competetion amonst other things like heat, noise, features, included bundle/software and warranty length.

Besides which its ATi's Vs nVidia's flagship cards, If nVidia had a dual GTX470 card then I'm sure it would be compared to the HD5970, but they haven't so people are obviously going to compare the HD5970 to the next best thing, the GTX480.

Also the prices are similar so it makes sense to compare two cards in a simialr price range.
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a b U Graphics card
June 11, 2010 12:03:54 PM

The 480 is the clear winner? Really? Performance wise it may beat the 5870, but design wise it is horrible with heat and noise and power,=.

If the 5870 and the 480 were on par with price I would say the 480 is the winner. But they are not, there is over $100 difference. That is a significant difference, just like it is crazy to compare the 480 with the 5970 due to price, it is silly that the 480 is compared with the 5870. I don't compare a $390 card with a $500 card. In reality the 470 is what competes with the 5870 due to price similarities

As for why the 480 is compared to the 5870 - well, Nvidia designed the card to compete against it so it makes sense that is where the comparison is. The 5970 is in its own league and will compete with Nvidias dual GPU card - just as soon as Nvidia work out how to make one without requiring a PSU with a small nuclear reactor in it and needing a water hose directly spraying onto it (which is safe because the water evaporates before it hits the board). Perhaps it will come with a free hazmat suit! :D 
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June 11, 2010 4:07:10 PM

if Nvidia will manufacture GTX 480x2 like that with 5970, than i think, GTX 480x2 will melt in a day lol along with it it will melt motherboard and other stuffs rofl.

BTW what about the noise eh? We specially have to buy a NOISE PROOF Case for it.

I think even if their are GPU's in 5970 still it is in single PCB and overall acts like a Single Graphic Card.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 4:17:32 PM

A GTX480x2 will never happen. Its TDP would be 500W, it would idle at 80c and max at 110c, fanspeed at 80% mind you, and it would be a horrible card. nVidia is probably waiting for their GF104 chips (which have a lower TDP and better efficiency in terms of power/performance) to make a dual card. But the first GF104 is supposed to have performance equal to an HD5770/HD5830, and two of those would ~= an HD5870, but fall extremely inferior to an HD5970.

Also, here's an HD5970 for $600; http://www.nowdirect.com/exec/partInfo/part_detail.tsb?...

There's a $120 pricegap between the GTX480 and HD5870, and the GTX480 and the HD5970.
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June 11, 2010 4:29:39 PM

i think, we might need a good cooling system if we buy a GTX 480, cooling system might not be needed in 5970 i think.
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June 11, 2010 4:30:01 PM

Quote:
This is easy. Let's look at prices.

HD5970 = $699-749
HD5870 = $389-429

GTX480 = $499

Get it now? You don't compare a $700 video card with a $500 video card.


Which proves the comparison is wrong. You don't compare a 700$ video card with a 500$ video card, but you also don't compare a 500$ video card with a 400$ one. It's quite a margin. Why would one compare two cards which are 100$ apart, even if they are the flagship GPUs (note: gpu, not card)?

Despite the price difference, the 5870 is actually quite similar to the 480 performance wise.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 4:32:03 PM

A $500 HD5870 (which would be a 2GB Cherry-picked OC'd version) would easily compete with a GTX480.
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June 11, 2010 4:39:39 PM

yup its quiet unfair people comparing GTX 480 with 5870 and not 5970.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 4:39:54 PM

It does amuse me when people put forward the various criteria for how cards should be compared when, at the end of the day, it's up to the individual to draw their own comparisons between the cards that they interested in and how much they are willing to spend on those cards.
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June 11, 2010 4:43:48 PM

Mousemonkey said:
It does amuse me when people put forward the various criteria for how cards should be compared when, at the end of the day, it's up to the individual to draw their own comparisons between the cards that they interested in and how much they are willing to spend on those cards.


its not like how the cards should be compared, if you are comparing some Top Level Cards, than definitely "BEST CARDS SHOULD BE COMPARED".
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June 11, 2010 4:48:15 PM

i am not very sure, on why people put GTX 285 in SLI and amazed to see that its performance still does not matches that of GTX 480, and price increases alot, people can actually buy a single 5970 instead of putting 2 GPU's in SLI and also can have better performance with almost same price.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 5:00:27 PM

sunzeal said:
its not like how the cards should be compared, if you are comparing some Top Level Cards, than definitely "BEST CARDS SHOULD BE COMPARED".

And the two cards have been and do get compared in many benchmarks but you have to bear in mind that not everybody wants a card with two GPU's on it, I know I don't.
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 5:02:01 PM

Quote:
But the OP seems to have noticed that the review sites that chuck out these benchmarks don't appear to agree with you on how cards should be compared, not everyone shares the idea of what a "Flagship Card" is.


My "belief" came about from back in the day when AMD had no answer for the 8800GTS/GTX. The 2900XT and 3870 could only handle the 8800GT, nothing higher. They realized that their card could only handle the 8800GT and priced it accordingly. I'm sure they would have loved to have sold it for more but the performance wouldn't allow it. From that moment on, its always been about cost/performance for me. I don't care if its a single card, dual GPU, dual PCB, CF.SLI setup, etc. How much FPS do I get for how much $$$?

Quote:
Likely it would have to be a severely down clocked GTX470 if they can even do that which is unlikely.


Someone forgot to tell Galaxy.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/computex-galaxy-demonstates...

No word on if it will ever see the light of day, or clock speeds, etc. It does exist however.
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June 11, 2010 5:10:28 PM

Mousemonkey said:
And the two cards have been and do get compared in many benchmarks but you have to bear in mind that not everybody wants a card with two GPU's on it, I know I don't.


why exactly so, if price is not the matter, than why not go for 5970? Does it have some dis-advantage if it has 2 GPU's in it??
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 5:24:37 PM

It's a matter of personal choice and preference, I don't like dual GPU cards. What I find really funny about this thread is how people have gone from the "single card is better than dual cards and dual GPU cards are just a gimmick" frame of mind to dual GPU card(s) are the best thing out there :lol: , the disadvantages are a lot of heat in a small area and that if there is a problem with one of my cards I can remove and carry on using the machine with only one card whilst the faulty one is being RMA'd if one of the GPU's goes pop on a dual card then you better have another card lying around to use whilst your x2 card is in the post.
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June 11, 2010 5:37:16 PM

yea, fault with single card is the problem, but considering heat factor, i think 5970 is better option than GTX 480.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 5:39:26 PM

The 5970 was made to dissipate 400W of heat.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 5:54:57 PM

The article I saw back in November last year that had this lovely picture accompanying it , is the only one I've seen that pushed a 5970 until it cried enough and throttled back, if any ones got some later ones then please post links.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 5:58:25 PM

Quote:
I still believe the best single card you can afford is the way to go, even if it's a dual gpu card.

Id much rather have a 5970 than 2x 5850 if the price was the same.

Fair enough, each to their own and all that.
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 6:14:39 PM

By the way, the 5870 single gpu loses to the GTX 295, which is why the 5970 was made to begin with.
It seems convenient the ATI fanbois ignore all the new 5850 /5870 2gb cards that people are buying, that throw any price advantage ATI, has out the window? Why is ATI making these cards ? They are supposed to be better right ?

Edit: We need to see a article comparing this card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
to gtx 480 sli. Read the 1 user review, lol. He's going to be submersing his card/computer in a mineral oil bath. :( 
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a b U Graphics card
June 11, 2010 6:49:55 PM

Annisman said:
I will never understand the "It has 2 GPUS on one card, so it can't be compared to the other sides flagship" argument.

I have seen both camps use that argument when it is convienant for them to point out how much 'better' their camps card is.

IMO you can compare whatever card you want with whatever card, it's price for that performance that should only be compared. The fanboi antics is lam3.



Yeah, i like to think of it as a CPU, if it's a dual core, it has two CPU's essentially, but it's still just one CPU chip, same goes for single core and quad core, 1 Chip, two/one/four/three/six CPU's, either way, works for me.

Video card is no different to me, if it fits into a single PCI-E slot, it is a video card and not video cards...
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 8:09:58 PM

Here's a question for Mousemonkey, TheGreatGrapeApe, or someone else wise;
What's preventing 8-way crossfire? Ignore PSU/CPU limitations.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 11, 2010 8:18:22 PM

Traditionally anything past two GPU's and you run into scaling issues of diminishing returns and although things are getting better we still aren't there yet, Guru3D did an article a little while ago on 4 way 480's and they had issues with the ATi drivers which is why they are absent in a lot of the charts. Nothing is preventing 8 way GPU usage other than programming, be it with drivers or the application itself.
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a b U Graphics card
June 11, 2010 11:35:47 PM

notty22 said:
By the way, the 5870 single gpu loses to the GTX 295, which is why the 5970 was made to begin with.
It seems convenient the ATI fanbois ignore all the new 5850 /5870 2gb cards that people are buying, that throw any price advantage ATI, has out the window? Why is ATI making these cards ? They are supposed to be better right ?
(


this makes no sense.

how do a few ultra high end cards negate the price advantage that ATI has at the regular purhcasing levels?

it doesnt matter what other cards there are, only what is the best price/performance in your own bracket.
saying that an eyefinity card is overpriced so therefore ATI are bad value is just ridiculous.
You are always quick to scream fanboy notty, but yours are some of the worst fanboy posts i ever have to read.

the point stands the a gtx480 is considerably more powerful than a 5870, but is also considerably more expensive. but the same goes for the 5970 when compared to the 480.
right now, i think the market is closer than it has ever been. with both cards offering cards that fit perfectly into their pricing zones and offer the right performance for the cost. even both sides have a dud card not worth buying (5830/465)
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 12, 2010 12:18:55 AM

Original question Why ppl compare 5870 with GTX 480??

Which is EXACTLY why single gpu is tested and rated against single gpu.
Theres a selection of $500 5870 cards claiming to be better and faster that can come to the gunfight. They still lose. There are no $500 , 5970's.

5870 2gb's , 2 are NOT eye 6 models.
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a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2010 1:08:39 AM

Pretty sure they are eyefinity 6 - they just don't mention it. The purpose of 2gb was for eyefinity 6 and also to help out at resolution beyond 1920 x 1200 I think.

The second ASUS card is focused on the fact it is slightly OC'd.

Even if they were not eyefinity 6, it is not very relevant - there are always pointless cards made, like welshmouse said - the 5830 is an unpopular card, yet strangely Nvidia made a challenger for it with the 465 (then overpriced it)

Eyefinity 6 or not, I think ATIs 2gb cards are as poor as Nvidias 400 series - expensive cards that are not justified by performance increase.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 12, 2010 1:31:35 AM

First off, the 480 is not "considerably" more powerful than the 5870. Don't make that mistake.

Actually, to be honest, there's no such thing as a performance bracket this season. Why? Because it goes a little like this.

HD5970>GTX480>HD5870>GTX470~>HD5850>HD5830~=GTX465>HD5770>HD5750>HD5670

Each GPU is in its own bracket. The HD5850 and GTX470 are closer to eachother than the 5870 and GTX480. Also, a $500 HD5870 would equal the stock GTX480. Also consider an HD5870 is $100 cheaper than a GTX480, and an HD5970 is $100 more. You pay $10 per 1% performance increase from $400-500, and then $2 per 1% performance increase from $500-600 (assuming HD5970 is 60% better than the HD5870, and 50% better than GTX480).
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a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2010 1:48:39 AM

shadow187 said:
First off, the 480 is not "considerably" more powerful than the 5870. Don't make that mistake.

Actually, to be honest, there's no such thing as a performance bracket this season. Why? Because it goes a little like this.

HD5970>GTX480>HD5870>GTX470~>HD5850>HD5830~=GTX465>HD5770>HD5750>HD5670

Each GPU is in its own bracket. The HD5850 and GTX470 are closer to eachother than the 5870 and GTX480. Also, a $500 HD5870 would equal the stock GTX480. Also consider an HD5870 is $100 cheaper than a GTX480, and an HD5970 is $100 more. You pay $10 per 1% performance increase from $400-500, and then $2 per 1% performance increase from $500-600 (assuming HD5970 is 60% better than the HD5870, and 50% better than GTX480).


how you would define considerable is a matter of opinion, but having benched my own system against 480 based systems of other people here on toms, i know mine id behind by a very noticeable margin.

other than that, i agree with what you are saying. my point is simply that the 480 IS more powerful, but more expensive to boot.
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June 12, 2010 1:51:11 AM

Yea the reason why they compare the two cards is because there both the high end single gpu card. So w/e still gtx 480 is what 5-10% better? For the heat and power consumption you can put another 5870....
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June 12, 2010 2:25:45 AM

gtx 480 egg pan... that's what it is
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 12, 2010 2:28:52 AM

Notty, newegg is not the universal price machine.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 12, 2010 2:31:04 AM

Also, that chart is telling me that the 5970 is only 28% better than the HD5870. Hence; I'm calling extreme bullshit.
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 12, 2010 2:49:10 AM

shadow187 said:
Also, that chart is telling me that the 5970 is only 28% better than the HD5870. Hence; I'm calling extreme bullshit.


shadow187 said:
Notty, newegg is not the universal price machine.

No, but its a realistic snapshot of current US prices. Who do you think your 'fooling' using that bogus quote price (5970) from a random unconfirmed web site ? And you used it in two of your arguments ?
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 12, 2010 3:02:45 AM

Actually that's entirely believable. First, that's an average of ALL resolutions. At lower resolutions your going to be bound by the CPU, so the 5970 wasn't able to stretch its legs. Second, all it takes is a game or two to not respond well to CF for it to throw the average. (think GTA4, where AMD had to disable CF on the 4870x2) Toss in the fact that you don't get good scaling with CF anyways, and I'd believe a ~30% across all resolutions.
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a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2010 6:41:48 AM

Hey, I could cherry pick benchmarks too....


And probably make the 5970 look twice as fast as a 480.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
June 12, 2010 8:00:24 AM

notty22 said:
No, but its a realistic snapshot of current US prices. Who do you think your 'fooling' using that bogus quote price (5970) from a random unconfirmed web site ? And you used it in two of your arguments ?


Actually it doesn't seem to be a /bogus/ price considering you can order it from that site.
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a b U Graphics card
June 12, 2010 8:42:07 AM

"Why ppl compare 5870 with GTX 480??" Because those two are the fastest single GPU video cards on the planet from 2 vendors that control the majority of the GPU market.
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June 12, 2010 9:46:15 AM

Fermi runs @ 70/96 *c on average.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
June 12, 2010 9:57:08 AM

ambam said:
Fermi runs @ 70/96 *c on average.

And what does that have to do with why the two cards get compared with each other? :heink: 
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