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David vs goliath (Nikon vs Canon)??

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Anonymous
December 22, 2004 2:25:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I just returned from a short trip to Seattle and while I was there I stopped
by one of their downtown camera stores (just up the road from Glazers). I
was asking about the new Nikon D2x and the salesman said he was not sure
when it will actually arrive, but the new Canon stuff was there and selling.
I asked what the hold up was and he said Canon is a much bigger company and
is able to take care of their own development and testing. This makes them
quicker to get new products out, while Nikon buys it CCD's from Sony and
doesn't have the resources Canon does. I don't know anything about the size
of either company but it did make a little sense. Nikon seems to always just
be catching up with Canon (as far as Digital SLRs go). I have been a long
time Nikon user but must admit I thinking of jumping to the new 1d Mark II.
I don't have a lot of expensive glass so the jump wouldn't be as bad.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

mitch
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 6:12:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mitch" <lawdoggys3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:32tsg8F3r3i1aU1@individual.net...
>I just returned from a short trip to Seattle and while I was there I
>stopped by one of their downtown camera stores (just up the road from
>Glazers). I was asking about the new Nikon D2x and the salesman said he was
>not sure when it will actually arrive, but the new Canon stuff was there
>and selling. I asked what the hold up was and he said Canon is a much
>bigger company and is able to take care of their own development and
>testing. This makes them quicker to get new products out, while Nikon buys
>it CCD's from Sony and doesn't have the resources Canon does. I don't know
>anything about the size of either company but it did make a little sense.
>Nikon seems to always just be catching up with Canon (as far as Digital
>SLRs go). I have been a long time Nikon user but must admit I thinking of
>jumping to the new 1d Mark II. I don't have a lot of expensive glass so the
>jump wouldn't be as bad.
>
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Well, Canon is a much bigger camera company than Nikon, and their industrial
side, as well as their digital video imaging side has given them an
advantage when it comes to producing digital cameras. However, that does not
mean a better product. Company size is irrelevant. Judge the products, and
then choose on that basis, not a balance sheet. Nikon isn't going anywhere.
Their profits are very healthy, as is the company.

As far as "buying" their sensors from Sony, well, that's no big deal,
either. Sony is the largest sensor manufacturer in the world, and even Canon
buys some from Sony. Nikon simply outsources to Sony, who builds a sensor
based on their spec. Here again, irrelevant. Judge the images, not the name
on the sensor label.

>
> mitch
>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 9:35:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mitch" <lawdoggys3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:32tsg8F3r3i1aU1@individual.net...
> was asking about the new Nikon D2x and the salesman said he was not sure
> when it will actually arrive, but the new Canon stuff was there and
selling.
> I asked what the hold up was and he said Canon is a much bigger company
and
> is able to take care of their own development and testing. This makes them

> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
snips


Seem to remember seeing fairly recently that Nikon was now part of some huge
group. Sorry, can't remember the name.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
Related resources
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 10:04:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Malcolm Stewart" <malcolm_stewart@megalith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:cqcepr$oue$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "Mitch" <lawdoggys3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:32tsg8F3r3i1aU1@individual.net...
>> was asking about the new Nikon D2x and the salesman said he was not sure
>> when it will actually arrive, but the new Canon stuff was there and
> selling.
>> I asked what the hold up was and he said Canon is a much bigger company
> and
>> is able to take care of their own development and testing. This makes
>> them
>
>> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> snips
>
>
> Seem to remember seeing fairly recently that Nikon was now part of some
> huge
> group. Sorry, can't remember the name.
>
> --
> M Stewart
> Milton Keynes, UK
> http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
>
>
>

Mitsubishi??
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 10:04:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Yeah, it's part of Mitsubishi (cars, electronics, kirin beer...)


"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:5zjyd.84955$K7.33455@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Malcolm Stewart" <malcolm_stewart@megalith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:cqcepr$oue$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> "Mitch" <lawdoggys3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:32tsg8F3r3i1aU1@individual.net...
>>> was asking about the new Nikon D2x and the salesman said he was not sure
>>> when it will actually arrive, but the new Canon stuff was there and
>> selling.
>>> I asked what the hold up was and he said Canon is a much bigger company
>> and
>>> is able to take care of their own development and testing. This makes
>>> them
>>
>>> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>> snips
>>
>>
>> Seem to remember seeing fairly recently that Nikon was now part of some
>> huge
>> group. Sorry, can't remember the name.
>>
>> --
>> M Stewart
>> Milton Keynes, UK
>> http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
>>
>>
>>
>
> Mitsubishi??
>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 10:58:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:04:33 GMT, "Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote:

>
>"Malcolm Stewart" <malcolm_stewart@megalith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>message news:cqcepr$oue$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> "Mitch" <lawdoggys3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:32tsg8F3r3i1aU1@individual.net...
>>> was asking about the new Nikon D2x and the salesman said he was not sure
>>> when it will actually arrive, but the new Canon stuff was there and
>> selling.
>>> I asked what the hold up was and he said Canon is a much bigger company
>> and
>>> is able to take care of their own development and testing. This makes
>>> them
>>
>>> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>> snips
>>
>>
>> Seem to remember seeing fairly recently that Nikon was now part of some
>> huge
>> group. Sorry, can't remember the name.
>>
>> --
>> M Stewart
>> Milton Keynes, UK
>> http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
>>
>>
>>
>
>Mitsubishi??

Enron?

--
Owamanga!
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 11:20:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>From: "Mitch" lawdoggys3@hotmail.com

>I have been a long
>time Nikon user but must admit I thinking of jumping to the new 1d Mark II.
>I don't have a lot of expensive glass so the jump wouldn't be as bad.
>
>Any input would be greatly appreciated.

We have two Mark II's and a 1Ds ... all I can say is "jump", you won't be
sorry.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 11:20:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Bill,

It seems I can buy a used 1ds for about the same price as a new 1d mark II.
What would be your opion since you have both? they are pretty close to the
same
camera, other than pixels?

thanks for your help....mitch

"Bill Hilton" <bhilton665@aol.comedy> wrote in message
news:20041222152026.06022.00001747@mb-m21.aol.com...
> >From: "Mitch" lawdoggys3@hotmail.com
>
>>I have been a long
>>time Nikon user but must admit I thinking of jumping to the new 1d Mark
>>II.
>>I don't have a lot of expensive glass so the jump wouldn't be as bad.
>>
>>Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> We have two Mark II's and a 1Ds ... all I can say is "jump", you won't be
> sorry.
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 12:33:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Owamanga" <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mjkjs05qraptkpmjgtrac56ss3u0ur4bld@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:04:33 GMT, "Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Malcolm Stewart" <malcolm_stewart@megalith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
>>message news:cqcepr$oue$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>> "Mitch" <lawdoggys3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:32tsg8F3r3i1aU1@individual.net...
>>>> was asking about the new Nikon D2x and the salesman said he was not
>>>> sure
>>>> when it will actually arrive, but the new Canon stuff was there and
>>> selling.
>>>> I asked what the hold up was and he said Canon is a much bigger company
>>> and
>>>> is able to take care of their own development and testing. This makes
>>>> them
>>>
>>>> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>>> snips
>>>
>>>
>>> Seem to remember seeing fairly recently that Nikon was now part of some
>>> huge
>>> group. Sorry, can't remember the name.
>>>
>>> --
>>> M Stewart
>>> Milton Keynes, UK
>>> http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Mitsubishi??
>
> Enron?
>
It is actually Misterbishi!! Or was that Missusbishi?
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 1:27:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:5zjyd.84955$K7.33455@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Malcolm Stewart" <malcolm_stewart@megalith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:cqcepr$oue$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > Seem to remember seeing fairly recently that Nikon was now part of some
> > huge
> > group. Sorry, can't remember the name.
>
> Mitsubishi??

Seems to ring a bell - probably what I was thinking of.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 3:31:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>>>> I am thinking of jumping to the new 1d Mark II.

>> We have two Mark II's and a 1Ds ... all I can say is "jump", you
>> won't be sorry.

>From: "Mitch" lawdoggys3@hotmail.com
>
>It seems I can buy a used 1ds for about the same price as a new 1d mark II.
>What would be your opion since you have both? they are pretty close to the
>same camera, other than pixels?

Very interesting question Mitch ... each has unique advantages I guess so it
comes down to what you'll use it for.

The 1Ds gives me basically one size larger print, ie, similar quality in a
16x20" print as I get from an 11x14" print from the 1D MII because of the extra
pixels. I've blown selected 1Ds images up to 20x30" and was amazed at the
print quality. 1Ds also lets me shoot wide angles easier since it's full
frame. I think these are the two biggest advantages.

1D Mark II is a better sports, action or wildlife camera though. The autofocus
is amazing (we use ours on birds in flight a lot and it's a much better than
any other camera I've tried). The 8.2 frames/sec is addictive, I've never
owned a body that shot faster than 3 fps or so before and now that I'm shooting
8 fps for up to 20 RAW frames I wouldn't want to go back to something less for
action shots. Also, for telephotos the 1.3x crop factor is a bonus ... I can
shoot my 500 f/4 IS with a 1.4x and it's equivalent to about 910 mm with IS and
full autofocus (with the 2x I can only use the center sensor for AF, but that's
the same on both cameras). So basically I gain a built-in teleconverter with
the Mark II.

Since I got the Mark II I've probably shot 6x as many frames with it as with
the 1Ds but partly because we were shooting wildlife and partly because it's so
easy to blast off multiple frames.

So there you have it ... one size larger print and full-frame for the 1Ds
advantages, or faster AF and burst rate with a 1.3x boost for telephotos with
the M II. Depends on which fits your style of photography best but you'll
probably be happy with either. Since the 1Ds you're looking at is used I'd
probably get the 1D Mark II new, all things being equal.

Bill
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 9:45:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mitch" <lawdoggys3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:32tsg8F3r3i1aU1@individual.net...
Nikon seems to always just
> be catching up with Canon (as far as Digital SLRs go). I have been a long
> time Nikon user but must admit I thinking of jumping to the new 1d Mark
II.
> I don't have a lot of expensive glass so the jump wouldn't be as bad.
>
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> mitch
>
Nikon are owned by Mitsubishi.
I don't recall any Nikon Digital camera with as many documented faults that
Nikon could not fix as the Canon range of DSLRs have and Canon cannot fix. I
own Olympus (Digicams), SD9 Sigma, Canon 20D and 1D II cameras. out of all
of these, the Sigma and the Oly are the only ones I use as back up cameras
because they are utterly reliable.

If Nikon are slow(er) to market but put fully tested and reliable products
out, This would make me buy Nikon, regardless of any differences in the
picture taking area. I have no complaints about the 1D other than it's cost.
I do not have any complaints about the quality of the 20D images either.

I have major reservations about all Canon products and Canon's attitude to
fixing their faults after having owned their "photo printers" which makes
photos that fade in months and their 20D which has caused me more grief and
embarrassment than any other camera I have ever owned. Make up your own mind
which to buy. Canon makes soft pictures due to Anti Alias filter. Nikon make
sharp pictures but are subject to moiré patterns because the don't have AA
filter.

All that being said, I have recently seen some photos from a D100 Nikon that
are technically bad. If someone offered me a camera based on these being the
quality I could expect, I would not buy it. Maybe they are not
representative of the camera's ability, hopefully they are not but the fact
that I cannot produce the same noise at ISO 1600 with a 20D should be
investigated by potential buyers.

Doug
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 5:11:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <U9ydnW8wIJUkS1TcRVn-qQ@bright.net>, razamanaz99@yahoo.com
says...
> Yeah, it's part of Mitsubishi (cars, electronics, kirin beer...)
>
I think they did a pretty good job with the WW2 Zero fighter also. Their
20mm cannons had a higher frame rate than todays Canons.
Anonymous
December 24, 2004 5:11:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:11:41 +1100, Bruce Graham
<jbgraham@nowhere.com.au> wrote:

>In article <U9ydnW8wIJUkS1TcRVn-qQ@bright.net>, razamanaz99@yahoo.com
>says...
>> Yeah, it's part of Mitsubishi (cars, electronics, kirin beer...)
>>
>I think they did a pretty good job with the WW2 Zero fighter also. Their
>20mm cannons had a higher frame rate than todays Canons.
>
True, but while they were lighter, more maneuverable and had a higher
frame rate, when they malfunctioned, it was flame city!

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 5:57:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Mitch" <lawdoggys3@hotmail.com> writes:

> I just returned from a short trip to Seattle and while I was there I
> stopped by one of their downtown camera stores (just up the road
> from Glazers). I was asking about the new Nikon D2x and the salesman
> said he was not sure when it will actually arrive, but the new Canon
> stuff was there and selling. I asked what the hold up was and he
> said Canon is a much bigger company and is able to take care of
> their own development and testing. This makes them

I think Nikon is in fact bigger than Canon.

> quicker to get new products out, while Nikon buys it CCD's from Sony
> and doesn't have the resources Canon does. I don't know anything
> about the size of either company but it did make a little
> sense. Nikon seems to always just

Canon have had their own fabs for ages, and this gives them a jump
in both R&D and time to get devices into volume.

BTW, both make their money from IC making gear and optical components.
Camera are just a side line almost.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
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