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Final thoughts before I buy/Build

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July 21, 2010 4:39:28 PM

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: (7/22/10-7/29/10)

BUDGET RANGE: 1000

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: gaming, surfing the internet, watching movies

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor, speakers

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Newegg, Fry's(very close to house)

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: USA

PARTS PREFERENCES: Gonna go the AMD route unless convinced other wise.

OVERCLOCKING: No, need more experience

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: No, need more experience

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1680x1050 22in HP

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: I'm one of those who needs a bad ass case to look at. Don't mind paying a little extra for it.

CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Mobo - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
GPU/Win 7 combo - http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...
Ram - http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-3463938-10521304?URL=http%...
HDD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
DVD - http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-3463938-10521304?URL=http%...
Heat Sink- http://www.newegg.com/Product/NewProduct.aspx?Item=N82E...
Case - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
July 21, 2010 5:01:43 PM

W/ Haf 932 I'm at 989.90
W/ Haf X I'm at 1039.99

And suggestions where I can put the extra money W/ either case?
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 5:02:52 PM

With a budget as high as yours, it's a little silly to stick with AMD. Once you're looking at spending over about $800 on your computer, it's often better to go with Intel as their CPUs at higher price ranges offer better performance, hands down, than AMD's, as they don't have any products which compete with Intel's higher end stuff. So, here's what I propose:

CPU: Intel Core i7 930 - a 2.8GHz quad core. It's faster than the higher clocked Phenom 965 though, due to its great architecture. $289.99

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R - the name just rolls off your tongue :D  It supports your CPU, up to 24 gigs of RAM at high speeds, two graphics cards at x16 so that you can add another one in the future and USB 3.0 and SATA 6GB/s to be forward thinking. $209.99

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws 6GB (3x2GB) 2000MHz Kit - super fast 6GB triple channel kit. More than enough capacity and speed for a few years. When you need more, you can just buy another one of these kits! $174.99

Graphics card: Palit GTX 460 1GB - a very fast graphics card which has very good scaling in SLI so that in the future, when you do feel that you have the experience, you can buy another one of these and run it alongside your current one. You don't really need any experience anyway; it's just like fitting a single graphics card except that you connect a bridge connector. $229.99

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB - high capacity, fast, reliable drive. $74.99

Optical Drive - Lite-On 24x DVD burner - supports burning and reading of all DVD formats at high speed. $17.99

PSU: Cooler Master GX Series 650W - nice reliable PSU which provides enough power for your system. In a combo with the case. $139.97 in combo.

Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 - in my opinion this is the most badass looking case money can buy. It's got very good cooling as well, with its 200mm fans. $139.97 in combo

So there you have it. Take it or leave it, that's my build suggestion for the money. Of course, if you really really don't want to go with Intel then you could get the 965 (might as well pay a bit more for it) and an AM3 motherboard, and 4 gigs of dual channel memory. That would put the price down a lot, but also the performance. What you have there is more powerful than any AMD computer when it comes to games.
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Related resources
July 21, 2010 5:06:10 PM

Looks good - will be nice for gaming and things now and give you the option of upgrading to crossfire 5770s in the future. If you don't plan on doing that ever, you could go for a smaller PSU and a cheaper motherboard...
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July 21, 2010 5:25:59 PM

Anonymous said:
With a budget as high as yours, it's a little silly to stick with AMD. Once you're looking at spending over about $800 on your computer, it's often better to go with Intel as their CPUs at higher price ranges offer better performance, hands down, than AMD's, as they don't have any products which compete with Intel's higher end stuff. So, here's what I propose:

CPU: Intel Core i7 930 - a 2.8GHz quad core. It's faster than the higher clocked Phenom 965 though, due to its great architecture. $289.99

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R - the name just rolls off your tongue :D  It supports your CPU, up to 24 gigs of RAM at high speeds, two graphics cards at x16 so that you can add another one in the future and USB 3.0 and SATA 6GB/s to be forward thinking. $209.99

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws 6GB (3x2GB) 2000MHz Kit - super fast 6GB triple channel kit. More than enough capacity and speed for a few years. When you need more, you can just buy another one of these kits! $174.99

Graphics card: Palit GTX 460 1GB - a very fast graphics card which has very good scaling in SLI so that in the future, when you do feel that you have the experience, you can buy another one of these and run it alongside your current one. You don't really need any experience anyway; it's just like fitting a single graphics card except that you connect a bridge connector. $229.99

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB - high capacity, fast, reliable drive. $74.99

Optical Drive - Lite-On 24x DVD burner - supports burning and reading of all DVD formats at high speed. $17.99

PSU: Cooler Master GX Series 650W - nice reliable PSU which provides enough power for your system. In a combo with the case. $139.97 in combo.

Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 - in my opinion this is the most badass looking case money can buy. It's got very good cooling as well, with its 200mm fans. $139.97 in combo

So there you have it. Take it or leave it, that's my build suggestion for the money. Of course, if you really really don't want to go with Intel then you could get the 965 (might as well pay a bit more for it) and an AM3 motherboard, and 4 gigs of dual channel memory. That would put the price down a lot, but also the performance. What you have there is more powerful than any AMD computer when it comes to games.


Sorry man I thought I put 1000 for Budget not 1200. Fix'd
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 5:33:50 PM

I'll edit this post in a minute to give you the best deal for $1000 instead of $1200. As for your build, everything looks good apart from the hard drive, heat sink and case. The hard drive is a "Caviar Black" which is a performance drive but barely offers any performance over the Caviar Blue. It's hotter and noisier though, so I'd say get the Caviar Blue 1TB. You don't need the heat sink at all unless you plan on doing medium/heavy overclocking. Your CPU comes with a heat sink which is fine for running at stock speeds or slightly overclocked. As for the case, the 932 is a full tower, and there's no point getting one of those unless you need loads of room for hard drives and optical drives. the HAF X is an extended ATX form factor, which is even bigger. Again, no point. Get the HAF 922. It's got plenty of space :) 
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July 21, 2010 5:35:20 PM

Actually, for gaming i7 CPU's offer no benefit over Phenom II x4 of i5-750.

You're paying a ton more money for useless threads.
The only exception is a build where you plan on using 3 or more GPU's, in which case the i5-750 is out, but Phenom II x4 is still fine.

The CM GX is actually a horrible PSU. The ripple in particular is nearly as bad as a cheap $20 700w PSU.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

RAm wise, you're better off with a G Skill Pi 6gb kit, or if you want 2000mhz RAM, the G SKill trident 2000 6gb kit.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

If you stick with a scythe mugen though, you'll need a RAM kit w/o heat spreaders, so this Corsair kit would work. The mugen blocks 2 RAM slots due to size.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

You could just go with a $30 Cm Hyper 212 Plus which blocks none, or a Megahalem which blocks only 1 (you can still install 3 RAM DImms this way)

Caviar Blue HD performance is pretty horrendous. Those things are old and slow.
Best bang for buck atm is Spinpoint F3. Better performance than that WD 1tb for less money.

Look for combo deals, you can save a lot that way.

For $1200, you can do a Phenom II x4 955 + 5870 + 23" 1920 x 1080 LCD. I'll throw together a build in a bit.
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 5:42:46 PM

He made a mistake originally. He is looking for a build for $1000.

Therefore, here's mine:

CPU: Intel Core i7-860 - a 2.8GHz quad core. It's faster than the higher clocked Phenom 965 though, due to its great architecture. Uses a different socket to the i7-930 and isn't as powerful but it means you can save on the RAM and motherboard. $289.99

Motherboard: ASRock H55DE3 LGA 1156 - It's reasonably cheap but it supports everything you need and so there aren't many reasons to pay more money for one. $89.99

RAM: GeIL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 1600MHz Kit - fast 4GB dual channel kit. Enough capacity and speed for a few years. When you need more, you can just buy another one of these kits! $86.99

Graphics card: Palit GTX 460 1GB - Same as before. $229.99

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB - Same as before. $74.99

Optical Drive - Lite-On 24x DVD burner - Same as before. $17.99

PSU: Cooler Master GX Series 650W - Same as before. $139.97 in combo.

Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 -Same as before. $139.97 in combo

There, my edited build. Comes to $999.91 which brings you just into your budget. Again, better for gaming than any AMD computer.
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July 21, 2010 6:37:24 PM

As I said above, the Caviar blues perform poorly. For same Price a 1tb spinpoint F3 is much better performance.

Comparison of wd black WD1001FALS vs f3. Copy paste, as it doesn't link properly
F3 on left, wd black on right

tomshardware.com/charts/2009-3.5-desktop-hard-drive-charts/compare,1013.html?prod[3016]=on∏[2365]=on

Asrock is a budget board company, not the highest quality. Further, that mobo can not xfire in the future and does not have sata 6/usb3.

Also as noted above, the CM GX series PSU's are horrible. Do not use them.

In addition dangerman, you forgot the OS.


$1,000 Phenom II x4+5850 build

HD
F3 500gb $55
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

PSU
XFX 750w $105 w/ $20 MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Top rated PSU on jonny guru. 9.7 vs 7 for the GX series.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&fil...

RAM
G SKill Eco DDR3 1600 7-8-7-24 @ 1.35v $105
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Low voltage, tight timings excellent OC ability.

Case/Optical
CM 690 and Samsung $73
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...
Case isn't as nice as the HAF 922, but it's still roomy and nice to work with.

GPU/CPU
XFX 5850 and Phenom II x4 955 $425
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

MOBO/OS
GA 790 UD4 and win 7 oem 64 bit $230 w/ $15 MIR $230
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Total: $993 before shipping and $35 rebates

If you're a student you can save some money w/ $30 win 7 pro offer
http://www.microsoft.com/student/en/us/software/windows...

You can stick with the HAF 922 with a cheap optical if you want, but it'll be ~$45 more
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July 21, 2010 6:45:35 PM

Gaming in general is GPU not CPU bound.
Even with a 5970, an i7-920 and a phenom ii x4 perform about the same.
http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/radeon_hd_...


The reason why an i7 cpu is unnecessary for gaming is due to useless threads you're paying for.

Games are very poorly threaded. The part of gaming that is well
threaded, the graphics portions, is handled by the GPU, which already
have hundreds of cores.

In gaming, the most CPU intensive task is AI. AI, by definition is not
a parallel process. It is extremely difficult to thread AI. Most games
that are "multi threaded" actually keep AI on 1 thread and throw the
rest (minor far less intensive stuff) on the other.

Can you design a game to utilize 4 or more cores? Sure, you can throw
all the CPU non intensive calculations onto their own threads, but
until someone figures out a good way to thread nonparallel
computations, the performance increase will be minimal, as the hard
work is still restricted to 1 thread.

This issue has been stumping programmers for decades. There are ways
to do this in specific situations, but no general solution yet. A
general solution allowing infinite threading of nonparallel
calculations would be the programming equivalent of finding the cure
for cancer, noble prize stuff for sure.

Basically think of it this way. On a math exam you have a 3 part
question in which the answer to part each part depends on previous
answers. IE

A. Add up 3 and 5.
B. Use the answer from part A and divide by 2
C. Use the answer from part B and triple it.

what is the final answer?

This is the type of thinking AI requires. Threading this is the
equivalent of calculating the answer to A, B and C simultaneously.
It's not impossible like the mathematical equivalent is, but it's not
easy.

For this reason, more than 3 threads has very little benefit.

Ram wise you want tighter timings.
AMD architecture favors tighter timings over faster speed for
performance increase. Intel, favors neither. That said, neither makes
a significant impact on performance to warrant a major price
difference.

CAs latency refers to how long it takes the RAM to do something after
it's given a command. Makes no difference to FPS in gaming, but like
an SSD, it improves system responsiveness.

Stock i7-930 is 133 block, 21 multiplier and 10x memory multiplier.
Though the latter is determined by MOBO not CPU. This fully saturated
1333mhz RAM. 133block speed x 10 memory multiplier= 1330.

To OC above this you'll need to either lower multiplier or get faster RAM.
In general, we recommend DDR3 1600 RAM if you plan on a OC.

Now, the reason why we recommend G Skill RAM is that memory can
perform better than rated speeds. Most companeis sell you RAM that'll
perform at specs, G SKill tends to give you better than you pay for.
So their RAM can run at higher speeds, lower voltages and/or lower
timings than specs. OCZ is the opposite, hence we don't recommend
them.

High speeds requires looser timings to work. I'll avoid the
tech details as to why, but suffice to say this is a mechanically
imposed limitation. Now, because faster RAM must be of higher quality
to maintain the same latency as slower RAM, they're generally better
quality. As a result, the Trident DDR3 2000 kit that's rated at cas 9
at 2000, can hit CAS 6 at 1600 speeds. CAS 5 at 1333 speeds. This is
why people will buy extremely fast RAM. They're getting higher quality
RAM so they can run it at tighter timings for the speeds they want.

Now as to why 1600 7-8-7-24 kit is better than a 1333 7-7-7-21 kit, is
because, the 1600 kit can run 7-7-7-21 when under clocked to 1333
speeds.

edit: Some cores vs performance in gaming benchmarks demonstrating the lack of performance after 3 cores.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-cores-performan...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-cores-performan...
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 6:49:24 PM

Wow. *hides in shame at inferior knowledge*
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July 21, 2010 7:00:54 PM

Don't worry about it dangerman, we're all here to learn.

I actually end up posting threading and latency explanations every week so I've got it saved up to copy/paste when needed :D 
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 7:06:37 PM

:lol: 
Well that's been pretty useful to me anyway. I knew that the GPU was more important for games but that's now given me a much more in-depth view of it, thanks :) 
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July 21, 2010 7:16:23 PM

a build for $942.91 before $20 rebates and is sli capable

cpu&mobo: x4 955 & asus m498td evo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

gpu&os: gtx 460 & win7 ( a gtx 460 will do great for your resoloution and sli isn't hard you know just connect the bridge then get in the nvidia control panel and click enable sli )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

psu&case: lancoolpc-k62 & xfx 650 (both r top notch quality)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

ram: g.skill eco
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

hdd: spinpoint f3 1tb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

odd: lite on
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

the gtx 460 is the best bang for the buck card out there in some benchmarks it either scores higher or lower than the 5850 and if you sli it it will beat 2 5870's in cf

edit: changed psu to 650
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July 21, 2010 7:17:04 PM

Good info
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 8:05:04 PM

I agree with everything on there apart from the HAF X. I have a feeling you won't be swayed on this one, but I advise you to get the HAF 922 instead.
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July 21, 2010 8:26:52 PM

Anonymous said:
I agree with everything on there apart from the HAF X. I have a feeling you won't be swayed on this one, but I advise you to get the HAF 922 instead.


2 reasons - room for my gorilla hands to work in
and my son loves to push the power button on me so I love the cover feature.
Plus the room I will have to upgrade my parts later.

Plus I'm stubborn and i just love the bigness of this bad boy!

But My wifey said 1g so If I cant sell her on it then Yeah i will go to the 922 or 932!
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 8:29:10 PM

1g? huh? lol
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July 21, 2010 8:33:57 PM

Anonymous said:
1g? huh? lol


Sorry bro meant 1k lol, as in I got 1000bucks to do this project with. I think because its my first build she doesn't want to see any money wasted.
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 8:34:56 PM

Oh right :D 
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July 21, 2010 8:44:00 PM

so I wont need a after market CPU fan will I since I wont be overclocking or anything?
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July 21, 2010 8:46:16 PM

Things are looking good. I see a 750W PSU in the mix.
That says to me 2x video cards some where in the future?

And that GA-790XTA-UD4 is Crossfire (ATI) only - not SLI (Nvidia). So maybe that GTX 460 is a slight mis-match since you can't add a 2nd. And a HD 5770 might be a better match, allowing you to add a 2nd if you ever upgrade your 1680x1050 monitor.

If you're sticking with the same monitor and want to keep the GTX 460 that works for me too. It's a great video card for the money.

Single GTX 460 or HD 5770... I think you can go with the 650W model PSU.
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Anonymous
July 21, 2010 8:50:40 PM

I agree with what you've said there, WR2. You can tone down the PSU if you're not going to get dual graphics cards in the future but I wouldn't recommend getting a single 5770 at 1680x1050. I'd say get the 460 or the 5830 if you're going ATI.

No, you won't need and after market CPU cooler if you're not overclocking.
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July 21, 2010 8:59:00 PM

Or you could just get a 5850 since it fit's in budget fine...

Price/performance the 460 is the best, but the 5850 is without a doubt a better GPU. The 460 price and performance beats a 5830, but is not a match for a 5850.

Granted, based on price/performance of a 460, a 5850 should be closer to $260, but by that metric a 480 should be closer to $350.

Actually, you're probably best off dropping the HAF X and using the savings to get a new 1920x1080 monitor.
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July 21, 2010 9:20:26 PM

Checked the power requirements for 2x 5850 in Crossfire. Found this recommendation on the Sapphire 5850 website. 600W for two.
XFX 650w is still looking good.

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July 21, 2010 9:28:44 PM

ok here is another build but with a 5850 and you can cf in the future (but believe me my other build was better bec. 2 460's beat 2 5850's by alot)

mobo&os: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

cpu&gpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

psu&case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

hdd: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

odd: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Subtotal: $982.91 before rebates

no need for haf x the combo of the xfx psu and lancool is a steel

case review: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...

@wr2 i think 650 will be cuttin it too close

also for the hsf i would recommend the hyper 212+ from amazon

edit: changed the psu to 650
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July 21, 2010 10:13:50 PM

mrhoshos96 said:
@wr2 i think 650 will be cuttin it too close
I think the Sapphire website got it right.
When THG tested 2x 5850 in Crossfire they measured 469watts at the wall socket which means the system was pulling something like 400watts (if the PSU was 85% efficient) with the GPUs fully loaded. Add another ~85watts to load up the CPU too and that's still well within the capabilities of a top notch 650W PSU.
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Best solution

July 22, 2010 5:01:34 AM

A bit larger PSU than actually required for 2x 5770s in Crossfire - but that's not a problem.

I really can't pick any holes in the list of parts. Everything should work together really well, and you're on budget. Good job.
Share
July 22, 2010 7:26:31 AM

WR2 said:
A bit larger PSU than actually required for 2x 5770s in Crossfire - but that's not a problem.

I really can't pick any holes in the list of parts. Everything should work together really well, and you're on budget. Good job.


Actually gonna go 2 5850 But ima start with 1 SAPPHIRE TOXIC 100282TXSR Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... for now. I'm a go over budget a little to get a really good video card.
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July 22, 2010 9:44:31 AM

WR2 said:
I think the Sapphire website got it right.
When THG tested 2x 5850 in Crossfire they measured 469watts at the wall socket which means the system was pulling something like 400watts (if the PSU was 85% efficient) with the GPUs fully loaded. Add another ~85watts to load up the CPU too and that's still well within the capabilities of a top notch 650W PSU.


oh thanks wr2 but will the psu operate at it's maximum efficiency
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July 22, 2010 12:42:15 PM

Of course the XFX 750W model is 80 PLUS Silver. It is a better PSU, no doubt about that. Golden Award @ HardwareSecrets
And it is only a $20 difference. On a tight budget I don't mind seeing a tight PSU fit using a good PSU.

@ bigprimo;
A HD 5850 will rock the 1680x1050 monitor, no doubt about that. And I think it will do a very good job on 1920x1080.

There is a fair chance the HD 6xxx family will be out by Christmas. It might work out for you to upgrade to a single 6xxx card and sell the HD 5870 to cover part of the upgrade. Just keep that option in mind when you see the 5870s starting to drop in price.
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July 22, 2010 2:53:02 PM

WR2 said:
Of course the XFX 750W model is 80 PLUS Silver. It is a better PSU, no doubt about that. Golden Award @ HardwareSecrets
And it is only a $20 difference. On a tight budget I don't mind seeing a tight PSU fit using a good PSU.

@ bigprimo;
A HD 5850 will rock the 1680x1050 monitor, no doubt about that. And I think it will do a very good job on 1920x1080.

There is a fair chance the HD 6xxx family will be out by Christmas. It might work out for you to upgrade to a single 6xxx card and sell the HD 5870 to cover part of the upgrade. Just keep that option in mind when you see the 5870s starting to drop in price.


I'll mos def keep that in mind.
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July 23, 2010 1:58:50 PM

Best answer selected by bigprimo.
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!