The 5970 4GB vs 5970 2GB vs GTX 480?

[fel2941]

Curious which card to go with, what would win out? With the 480 i would eventually throw in a second a year or so down the line, but the same could be said for the 5970....Whats the big difference if any between the 2 ram amounts?

 

[JofaMang]

2gb vs 4gb:
Wanna run eyefinity setups with maximum potention? 4gb. Might even be arguable for a single 2560x1600 display, but the 2gb model does well enough on its own when it comes to single displays.

5970 vs 480:
Multi-card scaling will be far superior with sli480, as cf5970 will be a quadfire setup, and the scaling issues past 2 gpus is well known. If the plan is a definite multi-card future, I would probably go for a 480, provided liquid cooling is planned along with the second card (or at the very least topshelf aftermarket air coolers). The bonus with liquid cooling is how much more effective it is for OC potential on the 480.

Like the old racing adage, How fast do you want to go? How much do you want to spend?

 

[redechelon]

^+1

Except the 480 temps... -_- it's not as bad as everyone keeps implying. You can have them back to back without any problems, just have good case airflow, and set the fans on the cards to a custom profile that increase its speeds as it heats up.

With the stock coolers on, back to back, the highest temps I reach overclocked @ 800/1000/1600 are 85C. MORE than okay.

 

[4745454b]

Perhaps red, but why then would Nvidia be SLI certifying cases? If your going to be doing SLI with air cooling, I think you need REALLY good case flow. And if you don't have it, I wouldn't try it.

 

[fel2941]

2gb vs 4gb:
Wanna run eyefinity setups with maximum potention? 4gb. Might even be arguable for a single 2560x1600 display, but the 2gb model does well enough on its own when it comes to single displays.

5970 vs 480:
Multi-card scaling will be far superior with sli480, as cf5970 will be a quadfire setup, and the scaling issues past 2 gpus is well known. If the plan is a definite multi-card future, I would probably go for a 480, provided liquid cooling is planned along with the second card (or at the very least topshelf aftermarket air coolers). The bonus with liquid cooling is how much more effective it is for OC potential on the 480.

Like the old racing adage, How fast do you want to go? How much do you want to spend?

Ok, so go with the 4gb or the 480, ill just throw my 2gb into my newphew PC for cf with his current one.

Only planning on Air cooling, and i was able to get my 2gb up to regular 5870 clocks with a bit of work, and it was running like a beast on 3 22" eyefinity setup.

Dont have room for more then 2x cards, can 4gb 5970 models OC like the 2gb? And i KNOW a 5970 OC would beat out a 480, but would 2x5970's beatout 2x480's? Alot of the reviews i've seen have performance doubling or near enough in SLI.

Thanks for the info fella's

 

[4745454b]

Dont have room for more then 2x cards, can 4gb 5970 models OC like the 2gb? And i KNOW a 5970 OC would beat out a 480, but would 2x5970's beatout 2x480's? Alot of the reviews i've seen have performance doubling or near enough in SLI.

Possibly. But at some point you have to take scaling into consideration. 4 GPUs tend to scale worse then 2 GPUs, and SLI tends to scale better then CF. Its possible that the 480 SLI setup will perform better then the 5970 CF setup.

 

[fel2941]

Dont have room for more then 2x cards, can 4gb 5970 models OC like the 2gb? And i KNOW a 5970 OC would beat out a 480, but would 2x5970's beatout 2x480's? Alot of the reviews i've seen have performance doubling or near enough in SLI.

Possibly. But at some point you have to take scaling into consideration. 4 GPUs tend to scale worse then 2 GPUs, and SLI tends to scale better then CF. Its possible that the 480 SLI setup will perform better then the 5970 CF setup.

Even with the 5970's OC'ed to around 5870 speeds? I read the 480's didnt OC to to good.

Anyone have any link to a review of CF 5970 performance and a similar test bench with sli 480's?

 

[redechelon]

Even with the 5970's OC'ed to around 5870 speeds? I read the 480's didnt OC to to good.

Anyone have any link to a review of CF 5970 performance and a similar test bench with sli 480's?

GTX 480's OC potential is amazing actually, you just need to get passed the temps.
Here's a few charts I found, nothing much. http://www.maingearforums.com/entry.php?24-So-You-Want-To-Buy-A-GeForce-Part-2

The 5970 seems to beat it til AA is turned on, then it falls apart. Even if the performance is comparable, thats $1400 vs $1000

 

[OvrClkr]

I would wait for the Asus Ares to drop, this way you only deal with one large GPU instead of having dual space heaters.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,705735/Asus-Ares-HD-5970-done-right-first-benchmarks/News/

 

[fel2941]

That Asus Ares doesnt interest me to much, seems to be a 5970 with stock 5870 clocks? I havnt had much issue getting my 2gb version to 5870 stock speeds, and im pretty sure i could go a bit past it.

Seems the 480 is the way to go, with a second down the line....Damm. Really like eyefinity but im looking for the end game performance king ><

Anyone happen to know if Nvidia is coming out with somthing similar thats NOT 3d?

 

[OvrClkr]

Aslong as you don't have a super small case or something like an Antec 300 the 480 will run fine and cool.

The GTX 4xx fan profile is something like this. 40-45% up to 80C. If you turn it up to 50-55% the temps in BC2 drop on average 10-15C. They do this because after 70%% the fan starts getting loud.

My 470's with 55% fan idle at 38C. With 45% fan they idle at 45C.

What is your room temp? I had a single 470 with plenty airflow and @ 50% fan speed the idle was around 55c, how did you manage 38c @ 55% fan speed with dual 470's?

 

[OvrClkr]

That Asus Ares doesnt interest me to much, seems to be a 5970 with stock 5870 clocks? I havnt had much issue getting my 2gb version to 5870 stock speeds, and im pretty sure i could go a bit past it.

Seems the 480 is the way to go, with a second down the line....Damm. Really like eyefinity but im looking for the end game performance king ><

Anyone happen to know if Nvidia is coming out with somthing similar thats NOT 3d?

A regular 5970 is technically the same as dual 5850's, the Ares is a true 5870x2...

The ASUS ARES as it is called is a dual-GPU Evergreen product with a pair of TRUE HD 5870 GPUs - not a combination of underclocked HD 5870 GPUs like the Radeon HD 5970 released back in November.

With a score of more than 28.4k on the GPU result in a quick run of 3DMark Vantage, the ASUS ARES dual HD 5870 graphics card is easily the fastest single card we have ever tested! For comparison, the GeForce GTX 480 scored 17,287 while the stock Radeon HD 5970 (dual HD 5850s essentially) scored 21,111. Obviously with a CPU score of 24,920 ASUS has an overclocked CPU at work, but for GPU score comparisons, this gives the ARES a 34% performance advantage over any other single card available.

http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=8621

 

[JofaMang]

A regular 5970 is technically the same as dual 5850's, the Ares is a true 5870x2...

Over simplifying it a bit, i think. With stock clocks, yes, the stock clocks are the same as dual 5850s, but it is still the hardware of a 5870x2. Ares is just a pair of high binned 5870 chips attached to 2gb memory per gpu.

 

[redechelon]

I would wait for the Asus Ares to drop, this way you only deal with one large GPU instead of having dual space heaters.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,705735/Asus-Ares-HD-5970-done-right-first-benchmarks/News/

Ah yes, the "space heater" exaggerations...

Are you forgetting the Ares is going to cost what, at least a grand? The Sapphire 5970 Toxic even costs $1000. The Mars was 1.5k wasn't it? ... How would you justify that $/performance vs 2 x 480's? 2 x 480's already wax 2 x 5870's, you could get a 3rd 480 for that price, and REALLY wax it.

I heard you can pre-order one in Europe and it costs 1200 Euros hahaha

 

[OvrClkr]

Ah yes, the "space heater" exaggerations...

Are you forgetting the Ares is going to cost what, at least a grand? The Sapphire 5970 Toxic even costs $1000. The Mars was 1.5k wasn't it? ... How would you justify that $/performance vs 2 x 480's? 2 x 480's already wax 2 x 5870's, you could get a 3rd 480 for that price, and REALLY wax it.

I heard you can pre-order one in Europe and it costs 1200 Euros hahaha

Im not over-exaggerating, nor am I putting down the 480's. I had a 470 also and had to get rid of it because I am not wealthy enough to have my AC on 24/7. Right now even my 5850 will heat up my room in less than 30 min unless my room temp is at a constant 72F or lower (winter/spring). Dual 480's will create a massive amount of heat unless water-cooled, I understand that many have over-exaggerated the Fermi temps but in reality they run warmer than any other card on the market. I have personally seen dual 480's in action and it took 15 minutes of BC2 at max settings to heat up the room to a massive 80F. We actually had to turn the PC off and let the AC run for a good 20 minutes before we fired up the PC again just to keep the ambient temps down.

I doubt the Ares will sell for 1,500.00$, there would be no point in spending that much cash on a GPU that does not stand a chance vs. Tri-480's just like you pointed out.

As far as the mars goes, well lets just say that it never went mainstream because of the ridiculous price-tag. Same thing will happen with the Ares unless it's priced competitively. Even Asus stated that the mars was a fail due to it's price-tag so why would they do it all over again?

 

[fel2941]

A regular 5970 is technically the same as dual 5850's, the Ares is a true 5870x2...

As i said, i've easily established a 5970 at 5870 stock speeds, which is why the Ares wouldnt have great value for me for the price increase over a 5970 4gb.(5970 is 2 underclocked 5870's)

The deciding factor at this point is if nvidia has any Eyefinity like setup possibly in the works....the 480's seem to be king here but i really do enjoy the 3x monitor gaming

 

[redechelon]

Im not over-exaggerating, nor am I putting down the 480's. I had a 470 also and had to get rid of it because I am not wealthy enough to have my AC on 24/7. Right now even my 5850 will heat up my room in less than 30 min unless my room temp is at a constant 72F or lower (winter/spring). Dual 480's will create a massive amount of heat unless water-cooled, I understand that many have over-exaggerated the Fermi temps but in reality they run warmer than any other card on the market. I have personally seen dual 480's in action and it took 15 minutes of BC2 at max settings to heat up the room to a massive 80F. We actually had to turn the PC off and let the AC run for a good 20 minutes before we fired up the PC again just to keep the ambient temps down.

I doubt the Ares will sell for 1,500.00$, there would be no point in spending that much cash on a GPU that does not stand a chance vs. Tri-480's just like you pointed out.

As far as the mars goes, well lets just say that it never went mainstream because of the ridiculous price-tag. Same thing will happen with the Ares unless it's priced competitively. Even Asus stated that the mars was a fail due to it's price-tag so why would they do it all over again?

I'm doubting the Ares will even go on sale here... but if it does, the Toxic is $1k, so based off of that, the Ares would have to be higher.
Even at $1k it's not worth it vs 2 480's.

And I'm not sure what to say to your heating comments. I'm a poor student, yet I run 2 of the cards... in the top floor A-frame room, with only a box fan blowing the AC up, and it seems to be fine. I run them at the same temps as my overclocked 5770's... 80C. Yes, I crank the fan's up when it's at full load, but I have headphones. I do agree that they are warm cards... and it takes more to tame the beast, but it is possible. If you're really worried about it, theres always the option of a $50-75 heatsink. Spitfire, HR-03 GT/GTX, they just came out with brackets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMxWVgYRv-M

And fel... yeah that would be awesome. I play shooters, so the monitor frames would drive me crazy, but for driving games etc... =]

 

[OvrClkr]

I'm doubting the Ares will even go on sale here... but if it does, the Toxic is $1k, so based off of that, the Ares would have to be higher.
Even at $1k it's not worth it vs 2 480's.

And I'm not sure what to say to your heating comments. I'm a poor student, yet I run 2 of the cards... in the top floor A-frame room, with only a box fan blowing the AC up, and it seems to be fine. I run them at the same temps as my overclocked 5770's... 80C. Yes, I crank the fan's up when it's at full load, but I have headphones. I do agree that they are warm cards... and it takes more to tame the beast, but it is possible. If you're really worried about it, theres always the option of a $50-75 heatsink. Spitfire, HR-03 GT/GTX, they just came out with brackets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMxWVgYRv-M

And fel... yeah that would be awesome. I play shooters, so the monitor frames would drive me crazy, but for driving games etc... =]

Well lets put it this way, my room in summer can hit 90F (yes inside my room) if the AC is not set to Auto where it goes down to about 78/80F (constant 10 min intervals), so that tells you that if I fire up my comp and lets say play a few games here n there the temps can go up to 83/85F easily and that is where the GPU starts to suffer and it starts to get uncomfortable. It's like I cycle, I can play for a certain period of time and then have to stop for a while to keep the ambient down.

 

[4745454b]

Nvidia does have an eyefinity solution coming, but it will be software based and not hardware. The biggest bad thing is that you'll need two cards in SLI in order to pull it off. This means two GTX480s or two GTX470s, etc. The biggest good thing is Nvidia has said that because of how they do it, you should be able to use ANY SLI'd cards. This means you can use your GTS250 setup, or your 9800GT setup.

I don't think they have released the drivers you'd need to do this yet. At this point it's all claims. I'd be very certain however that they are working quite hard on making this doable.

 

[redechelon]

Well lets put it this way, my room in summer can hit 90F (yes inside my room) if the AC is not set to Auto where it goes down to about 78/80F (constant 10 min intervals), so that tells you that if I fire up my comp and lets say play a few games here n there the temps can go up to 83/85F easily and that is where the GPU starts to suffer and it starts to get uncomfortable. It's like I cycle, I can play for a certain period of time and then have to stop for a while to keep the ambient down.

Well I guess it isn't for everybody... that would suck. I'm just tired of hearing these heat and noise comments acting like the cards are these un-tameable monsters that rupture ear-drums and melt cases. I understand they're hotter, and therefor louder to keep them cool, than any card out there... But they really are great cards, just wish they earned more praise.

 

[redechelon]

This forum is full of ATI fanboi's so that's never going to happen.

Word.

 

[4745454b]

If it makes you feel any better, the GTX480 is faster then the 5870. Happy? What it doesn't do is provide more details or make games more playable for the most part. Meaning the 5870 provides playable frame rates just like the GTX480. It also lacks Eyefinity, emits more heat and is slightly louder then the 5870.

I'd actually argue the "good" card this round is the 5850. Cheap, good performer, good all around card. The GTX470 isn't that much worse, but has the same problems the GTX480 has. Guess this isn't going to make you happy after all.

 

[redechelon]

If it makes you feel any better, the GTX480 is faster then the 5870. Happy? What it doesn't do is provide more details or make games more playable for the most part. Meaning the 5870 provides playable frame rates just like the GTX480. It also lacks Eyefinity, emits more heat and is slightly louder then the 5870.

I'd actually argue the "good" card this round is the 5850. Cheap, good performer, good all around card. The GTX470 isn't that much worse, but has the same problems the GTX480 has. Guess this isn't going to make you happy after all.

You don't buy GTX 480's to get "playable". Turn AA/AF/Tessalation on at high reso's with a 5870 and you might as well have bought a cheap nVidia card.
Gee 474568033c, didn't I already express my opinion and solution for the card's issues: heat and noise?

I do think the 5850 rules though, it's an all around wonder. As is the 5770.

 

[OvrClkr]

Well I guess it isn't for everybody... that would suck. I'm just tired of hearing these heat and noise comments acting like the cards are these un-tameable monsters that rupture ear-drums and melt cases. I understand they're hotter, and therefor louder to keep them cool, than any card out there... But they really are great cards, just wish they earned more praise.

naa, I aint that kind of person. In fact im the other way around... The louder the better cause it assures me that something fun is going on. Noise is never an issue because the game volume always surpasses any noise coming from the PC. Hehe this is going to sound ironic but I was one of the few rooting for Fermi before the release. You can check my posts 2 months prior to the release. Another thing that caught my attention when I jumped ship was the fact that I had no complaints as far as NV drivers go, once I changed to AMD I learned the difference between both and unfortunately I expected better from AMD. Not being able to play BC2 with v-sync enabled is unacceptable but meh since I cannot do anything I try to ignore it.

 

[4745454b]

Don't you go waving anything at me. I suggest you read what I ACTUALLY wrote again. If you need to, read slower.

Does it still not make sense? Take a look at this link.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/06/14/gigabyte_hd_5870_super_overclock_edition_review/3

Here is metro the GTX480 handles a higher res, but with slightly less detail. (I'm comparing with the stock 5870, don't get any ideas.) BC2 the GTX480 and the 5870 have the same res. That extra $100 gets you 8x AA instead of 4x AA. Realize that you need to play at 2560x1600 for this to matter, if you play at 1680x1050 or 1920x1080 then I'm sure you can get 8x AA if thats really going to matter. SC:conviction is the same way. AVP has identical settings. And thats the end of the games.

So as long as your willing to "settle" for 4x AA instead of 8x AA, they provide mostly the same experience. If your not a 2560x1600 screen I'm sure they will run out of slider space before you max the card out. Its not like the 5870 stops at 1680x1050 while the GTX480 allows 2560x1600. You can buy either card and get "playable" frame rates. The question is is that $100 worth the extra levels of AA? (or heat, noise, beefier PSU, etc.) For some the answer will be yes. For others, I'd rather have eyefinity and that $100.