Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Another "first build" person here.

Last response: in Systems
Share
July 23, 2010 5:29:31 PM

Hey everybody!

Another "newbie" here, looking for advice on parts before I click the order button on Newegg. My major concern is using RAID 0 for increased speed, in addition to using the SATA 6.0 ports on the motherboard. I'm trying to keep it at a hair over $2,000. Also, any opinions on graphics cards options would be greatly appreciated. (I also wouldn't shoot down the O/C'ing option, but I'm kinda scared because it's a first build).



Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$99.95


Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
(x2)= $189.98


ASUS VH236HL-P Black 23" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen Full HD 1080P LCD Monitor w/height & swivel adjustment
$209.99


SAPPHIRE 100283L Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
(x2)= $339.98


ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E818A6T/BLK/B/G
$16.99


CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ...
$109.99


Mushkin Enhanced Ridgeback 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model 996826
(x2)= $259.98


ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$284.99


Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930
$289.99


Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Full (64 bit)
$275.99

Thanks a ton!

More about : build person

July 23, 2010 7:16:54 PM

Obviously, you have some money to work with because you should be able to build a fast computer for under $1000 that will rival anything store bought. I've added some considerations for you (having built 5 in the past year)...

#1: Try to buy from Newegg.com as they are better at returns than geeks.com (Geeks usually carries subpar and reconditioned products but at really good prices).
#2: Buy cases, power supplies, cables, fans, etc. from geeks. Don't get cheap on the case, but don't spend over $75. Get a case that has 3 fans or add more if needed (which you will).
#3: Buy cables, screws, fans from Ebay. I purchase lots of 10 sata cables for the price of one on Newegg.com.
#4: Buy Windows off a Top-Rated Seller on Ebay. They are genuine copies and you will save about $100. (You also don't need Ultimate unless you intend to brag.)
#5: Look for bundles on Newegg (cpu and mobo; ram & video card; case and psu). This will save you around $100 when you're all done, so it's worth researching. (Dont' forget to send in those Mail-In rebates. They do work!)
#6: Spend more money on your motherboard than on your processor for one simple reason. The mobo moves all the information. It's like your arteries. If your arteries are clogged, your heart stops no matter how big it is. Look for the fastest mobo that allows later upgrades and has built-in overclock ability (on the mobo, not in software).
#7: Consider a LGA1156 mobo so you can buy an i5 now and upgrade later to an i7 (when the price comes down). i7's are worthless right now since no software utilizes more than 3 cores. You're wasting money on an i7.
#8: Remember that your hard drive will dictate the overall speed of your system. Your standard 7200 rpm drive will be slower than any dual core processor at 3.0Ghz.
#9: Processor speed is more important than number of cores. Assuming that most software uses two cores: If I have a dual core at 3.0ghz and you have a 6-core at 1.6 Ghz. I will smoke you.
#10: If you're stuck on Intel processors, ASUS mobos are the best so good choice there. However, consider AMD processors (PhenomIIx4) paired with MSI motherboards. They're cheaper and do the same thing.
#11: 4GB Ram is adaquate, so good reasoning there.
#12: Only buy EVGA video cards (perferrably 2.0x16 PCI). They are the best and you can use their overclocking utility to really soup them up.
#13: You only need 550 watts of power to run a system with one video card. Unless you're running dual video cards you don't need over 600 watts.
#14: Power supplies are overrated. They do a simply task: Provide electricity. They are like gas in a car (they all provide the power). Choose a cheaper brand (like logisys) and take yourself out to dinner with the $50 you saved.
#15: You will not need two video cards unless you're running two monitors. And you don't want ATI. they're nice but they have all sorts of software compatibility issues. Go with Nvidia and save yourself a headache.
#16: THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON YOU WILL LEARN WITH THIS BUILD IS: HOW COME MY $2000 SYSTEM IS ONLY AS FAST AS MIKE'S $600 SYSTEM? BECAUSE OF YOUR HARD DRIVES: 7200 RPM'S AND RAID 0 WILL SLOW IT DOWN. Invest in one 15,000 RPM drive (Don't bother with SSD's yet) and use a crappy 7200 RPM drive for backup. Remember RAID slows a system but protects data. RAID is designed for server applications.

Well, that's all I got to say about that. I hoped it help some. For what it's worth...
a b B Homebuilt system
July 23, 2010 7:25:57 PM

15000RPM drives exist? Im afarid not, for SATA the fastest spinny drives are the Raptors which are only 10000RPM. Compared to SSDs they still suck.

And I dont think you grasp the concept of RAID, RAID 0 loses a bit data safety while boosts speed by a chunk, RAID 1 is for data safety and doesn't necessarily slow down anything.

Have fun with that cheapo-PSU too, just dont cry when it fails and kills your board and precious GPUs in the process.

Finally, EVGAs are alright, but ATI/XFX/ASUS is great also, by saving that headache of messing with drivers you also gave Nvidia a free $50 bill. Great.
Related resources
a b B Homebuilt system
July 23, 2010 7:33:34 PM

What will you be using this system for?

A lot of those choices have alternatives that would save you money while not decreasing performance.

The first point is that the FAEX drives probably are the fastest 1TB drives available atm, but I seriously doubt they are worth the extra cost over a Samsung Spinpoint F3 or Seagate Barracuda 7200.12. Individually they aren't fast enough to really warrant a SATA 6Gbps controller, and it's doubtful that they truly utilize SATA 6Gbps, even in RAID.

Secondly the Asus P6X58D-E is a bit cheaper than the Premium, while only sacrificing features that most people don't need or use.

Do you really need 8GB of RAM? Typically people choose 6GB sets to use with an x58 build.

I usually think it's better to start off with just one powerful graphics card rather than two less powerful ones, as even tho the performance might not be as high, you will have an upgrade option in the form of crossfire, or only replacing one card if a new one comes out that's better.

Quote:
#12: Only buy EVGA video cards (perferrably 2.0x16 PCI). They are the best and you can use their overclocking utility to really soup them up.
#13: You only need 550 watts of power to run a system with one video card. Unless you're running dual video cards you don't need over 600 watts.
#14: Power supplies are overrated. They do a simply task: Provide electricity. They are like gas in a car (they all provide the power). Choose a cheaper brand (like logisys) and take yourself out to dinner with the $50 you saved.
#15: You will not need two video cards unless you're running two monitors. And you don't want ATI. they're nice but they have all sorts of software compatibility issues. Go with Nvidia and save yourself a headache.
16. THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON YOU WILL LEARN WITH THIS BUILD IS: HOW COME MY $2000 SYSTEM IS ONLY AS FAST AS MIKE'S $600 SYSTEM? BECAUSE OF YOUR HARD DRIVES: 7200 RPM'S AND RAID 0 WILL SLOW IT DOWN. Invest in one 15,000 RPM drive (Don't bother with SSD's yet) and use a crappy 7200 RPM drive for backup. Remember RAID slows a system but protects data. RAID is designed for server applications.

12. Brand doesn't matter that much, apart from customer support & warranty.
13. For two 5770s a good 550W PSU will be fine.
14. Power supplies are not overrated. They do a simple yet crucial task. You want the electricity provided to your system to be as stable as possible. I'm not saying cheaper ones don't, but they are less likely to and I'd much prefer and would suggest that you buy one that you know (from reading reviews) does provide stable and high quality electricity to your components. A bad PSU can do damage to your other very expensive components. Besides you're on a very high budget, you can afford to get a really good PSU, so why take the risk?
15. ATI are perfectly fine, just as good (or bad) as Nvidia. It is a myth that Nvidia have perfect drivers/no software compatibility issues.
16. Yes the HDD is the slowest part of the system, but most 10K drives are not significantly faster than a fast 7200 drive. I agree that SSDs aren't perfect yet, and are probably worth waiting for. But even todays SSDs are many times better (in any way you care to mention) than a 10K. I'm also pretty sure that for the price of a 10K drive, you can actually get a decent SSD (Intel X25-M 80GB G2). The downside is that you still need to get a data drive.
July 23, 2010 7:51:32 PM

Yes, you're right 10,000rpm would be the limit. SSD's are still new and unproven. The problem with SSD's is the data is not physically stored on a drive, so there is no way to recover information off a dead SSD's. We should probably wait a couple years to make a verdict on SSD's.

I've installed over 50 psu's in hostle environments (we're talking hot, humid shop environments). I've NEVER had a psu fail before the computer wasn't worth anything more than scrap.

I'm amazed how marketing influences people's perceptions of "quality". I buy $2.50 (per set) of brake pads from China, import them to the US, put them in a pretty box with a "guarantee" and you buy them for $35 a set! You all think that my pads are better than Autozone's, but we buy them from the same Chinese manufacturer. Don't believe me: Research D702 brake pads (that's the standard brake pad for 2000-2005 F150 trucks).

I can also guarantee that Corsair doesn't make their own products. Most (if not all) electronics are made in China or elsewhere. (Check your iPod.) Almost ALL electronics are ALL made by secondary suppliers in poorer countries who ship them to a distributor (such as myself) where we slap a label on them sell them to you at exorbitant prices. Corsair also puts them in pretty boxes so you "feel" you are getting a better quality product. But unless there is some new engineering technique of transferring electrons through copper wire it's still the same power supply.

For example, you can buy the OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V psu ($69.99 at Newegg.com) from POWERCASE TECHNOLOGY(SHENZHEN)CO., LTD for under $5 each! OCZ doesn't make them (you assume that). They just put their label on it. Market their high "quality" and charge you 10 times what it costs them to buy them.

Think I'm full of it? Check out the ACTUAL manufacturer's website address below...

http://www.powercase.com.cn/viewsmallclass.asp?BigClass...

a b B Homebuilt system
July 23, 2010 7:57:01 PM

I already knew that Corsair and OCZ don't make their own PSUs, thank you.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 23, 2010 8:01:31 PM

ahthurungnone said:
Yes, you're right 10,000rpm would be the limit. SSD's are still new and unproven. The problem with SSD's is the data is not physically stored on a drive, so there is no way to recover information off a dead SSD's. We should probably wait a couple years to make a verdict on SSD's.

I've installed over 50 psu's in hostle environments (we're talking hot, humid shop environments). I've NEVER had a psu fail before the computer wasn't worth anything more than scrap.

I'm amazed how marketing influences people's perceptions of "quality". I buy $2.50 (per set) of brake pads from China, import them to the US, put them in a pretty box with a "guarantee" and you buy them for $35 a set! You all think that my pads are better than Autozone's, but we buy them from the same Chinese manufacturer. Don't believe me: Research D702 brake pads (that's the standard brake pad for 2000-2005 F150 trucks).

I can also guarantee that Corsair doesn't make their own products. Most (if not all) electronics are made in China or elsewhere. (Check your iPod.) Almost ALL electronics are ALL made by secondary suppliers in poorer countries who ship them to a distributor (such as myself) where we slap a label on them sell them to you at exorbitant prices. Corsair also puts them in pretty boxes so you "feel" you are getting a better quality product. But unless there is some new engineering technique of transferring electrons through copper wire it's still the same power supply.

For example, you can buy the OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V psu ($69.99 at Newegg.com) from POWERCASE TECHNOLOGY(SHENZHEN)CO., LTD for under $5 each! OCZ doesn't make them (you assume that). They just put their label on it. Market their high "quality" and charge you 10 times what it costs them to buy them.

Think I'm full of it? Check out the ACTUAL manufacturer's website address below...

http://www.powercase.com.cn/viewsmallclass.asp?BigClass...


Corsair doesn't make their own PSU, correct, but they come from OEMs like Seasonic and CWT, and the OEM's design directly affect quality. The OEMs arent random, but selected by Corsair to suit their needs.

Theres a tremendous difference between the design of a cheapy "Codegen" and a quality unit from Seasonic, they can vary from small things like soldering to capacitor selection and overall design, there are plenty of PSUs that cant even output their designated powers.

Just open one up and see for your self, what you're saying now is like "Why buy a graphics card from EVGA, its manufactured in the same place in Taiwan as ECS and Jetway, and they're simply slapping their stickers on it to make a $20 PCB cost $100. Unless there is some new method of slapping silicon chips onto a PCB it's still the same graphics card. "
a b B Homebuilt system
July 23, 2010 8:18:32 PM

Wow, this guy needs to be banned for gross misinformation and slander.

Also marketing has nothing to do with it. Hardware secrets and jonnyGURU do.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 24, 2010 8:09:21 PM

Yeah, those things are kinda expensive.
July 24, 2010 8:42:38 PM

Silvune said:
What will you be using this system for?

A lot of those choices have alternatives that would save you money while not decreasing performance.

The first point is that the FAEX drives probably are the fastest 1TB drives available atm, but I seriously doubt they are worth the extra cost over a Samsung Spinpoint F3 or Seagate Barracuda 7200.12. Individually they aren't fast enough to really warrant a SATA 6Gbps controller, and it's doubtful that they truly utilize SATA 6Gbps, even in RAID.

Secondly the Asus P6X58D-E is a bit cheaper than the Premium, while only sacrificing features that most people don't need or use.

Do you really need 8GB of RAM? Typically people choose 6GB sets to use with an x58 build.

I usually think it's better to start off with just one powerful graphics card rather than two less powerful ones, as even tho the performance might not be as high, you will have an upgrade option in the form of crossfire, or only replacing one card if a new one comes out that's better.

Quote:
#12: Only buy EVGA video cards (perferrably 2.0x16 PCI). They are the best and you can use their overclocking utility to really soup them up.
#13: You only need 550 watts of power to run a system with one video card. Unless you're running dual video cards you don't need over 600 watts.
#14: Power supplies are overrated. They do a simply task: Provide electricity. They are like gas in a car (they all provide the power). Choose a cheaper brand (like logisys) and take yourself out to dinner with the $50 you saved.
#15: You will not need two video cards unless you're running two monitors. And you don't want ATI. they're nice but they have all sorts of software compatibility issues. Go with Nvidia and save yourself a headache.
16. THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON YOU WILL LEARN WITH THIS BUILD IS: HOW COME MY $2000 SYSTEM IS ONLY AS FAST AS MIKE'S $600 SYSTEM? BECAUSE OF YOUR HARD DRIVES: 7200 RPM'S AND RAID 0 WILL SLOW IT DOWN. Invest in one 15,000 RPM drive (Don't bother with SSD's yet) and use a crappy 7200 RPM drive for backup. Remember RAID slows a system but protects data. RAID is designed for server applications.

12. Brand doesn't matter that much, apart from customer support & warranty.
13. For two 5770s a good 550W PSU will be fine.
14. Power supplies are not overrated. They do a simple yet crucial task. You want the electricity provided to your system to be as stable as possible. I'm not saying cheaper ones don't, but they are less likely to and I'd much prefer and would suggest that you buy one that you know (from reading reviews) does provide stable and high quality electricity to your components. A bad PSU can do damage to your other very expensive components. Besides you're on a very high budget, you can afford to get a really good PSU, so why take the risk?
15. ATI are perfectly fine, just as good (or bad) as Nvidia. It is a myth that Nvidia have perfect drivers/no software compatibility issues.
16. Yes the HDD is the slowest part of the system, but most 10K drives are not significantly faster than a fast 7200 drive. I agree that SSDs aren't perfect yet, and are probably worth waiting for. But even todays SSDs are many times better (in any way you care to mention) than a 10K. I'm also pretty sure that for the price of a 10K drive, you can actually get a decent SSD (Intel X25-M 80GB G2). The downside is that you still need to get a data drive.


Thanks for the extra info, Silvune.

I was going for a build that does have excellent capabilities for gaming applications. Budget is set somewhere between 2k and 2.5k, including monitor and a copy of Win7. I also agree about the more powerful graphics card, I think I might pick up at 5870. If you can recommend a build that includes a 5970 for around the same price range, I would /drool.

Also, I thought the PSU that I linked was 750W? I figured that would be plenty of power.

Thanks :D 

July 24, 2010 9:08:17 PM

Also, for anyone else who wants to join in, keep in mind that I'm really not emotionally tied to any brand.

If someone wants to recommend an AMD build that will be faster for the same price, please, be my guest!
a b B Homebuilt system
July 25, 2010 12:40:40 AM

The thing is you seem to be spending more money per thing. You'd have to be to ... nevermind you wanna crossfire the 5770's. They seem to like that.

An AMD build wouldn't be faster (at least, not this second) but it would be cheaper. And there's a chance that Bulldozer might be AM3, though at the least something else is supposed to be, which would be a good drop-in upgrade.

As such it would be pretty easy to toss something together with a Phenom II x4 955 and some crossfire mobo (just in case it comes in handy) and a 5970. ESPECIALLY with a 2K budget. As far as gaming is concerned it would probably do better.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 25, 2010 12:36:19 PM

Guys, my family owns an electronics/hardware business in India, & we almost always use a <$10 unbranded psu in all of our builds, & lemme tell you---the last thing that ever gives out is the psu. As long as you know which supplier to buy it from, they are really gonna be long lasting & trouble free.(The trick is to use unbranded - branding jacks up the price tremendously). These same ones are branded corsair, thermaltake, antec, etc. & sold at exorbitant rates.

The words "cheap" and "inexpensive" are never ever synonymous or interchangeable.

I am obviously not gonna give out any trade secrets, but we rofl at the very thought of gullible americans paying $100 for a psu!!!. Trust me guys, if you know where to order from (hint:trade sites!!!---system builders get wholesale rates for 10+ orders),you are gonna save a tonna money without ANY & I repeat ANY -ve impact whatsoever.

Hard drives die (SG, WD), Mobos arrive DOA, RAM sticks have to be RMA'd, but PSU's?---Almost never. The thing is, PSU's are simple "electrical" devices, as opposed to the complex "electronic" components, that go into making a pc.

Along with fully functional, fully update-able,---verified as genuine from MS website---$1 win 7 ultimate dvd's
(yes that's one dollar---no typo here!---MS must really hate imgburn), we make kick-ass systems that rarely, if ever gives in within several years of operations---yes, I said SEVERAL years, not just one or two - Take that, Dell.


Also though unrelated, a relative of mine makes tees for abercrombie & fitch, tommy hilfiger, gap,burberry,D&G, Diesel,
Iceberg etc. for ~3 dollars (Again, no typo) as also lingerie for victoria's secret, la perla, among others for 2-2.5 dollars. People we know (business partners, etc) supply jeans, perfume, leather watch straps,shoes etc. to most of the affordable "pret" designer labels (that's ready to wear, btw) for less than 10% of the retail price. (Armani exchange, Marc by Marc Jacobs, Issac Mizrahi, Frost/French(u.k.), Jimmy Choo etc. among others)

Rates are even lower for primark, laura ashley, arcadia, topshop (all u.k.)

Americans (and stinky rich Indians like ourselves, I might add) then go & pay 10-20 times just for the brand.


Talking 'bout auto parts, please visit the websites of "bharat forge" , "motherson sumi" and the like, to get the real picture. These Indian auto component manufacturers supply to GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, BMW,Mercedes,etc
among others at rates delphi etc can't even imagine.(And NO,it was'nt any of these companies that were responsible for Toyota's recent problems).

So you see, it's not the brand that makes a product, but quite the opposite. It's the quality of the product or lack thereof, that always makes (or breaks, as the case may be) the brand or the company.


The above mentioned facts are all spoken from personal experiences, and known first person narratives. You guys better believe it. And no, I am not some Brit, Aussie, Kiwi, or Yank masquerading as Indian. If you think my English is too good to be true, well, I am a well educated guy, and not some semi-literate call-center jackass, the only Indians you guys might be aware of (apart from stinky NYC cabbies, that is). Just my two cents worth.
July 25, 2010 1:50:08 PM

Vyndion said:
Thanks for the extra info, Silvune.

I was going for a build that does have excellent capabilities for gaming applications. Budget is set somewhere between 2k and 2.5k, including monitor and a copy of Win7. I also agree about the more powerful graphics card, I think I might pick up at 5870. If you can recommend a build that includes a 5970 for around the same price range, I would /drool.

Also, I thought the PSU that I linked was 750W? I figured that would be plenty of power.

Thanks :D 



That PSU is more like overkill.

I have a 5870 and a 9800GT (running as a PhysX card) on a 650W Corsair. To save money, I would highly recommend getting the 650XT from Corsair, I will definitely get the job done, with more power left over
a b B Homebuilt system
July 25, 2010 11:22:59 PM

@calguyhunk

That's nice. We aren't in india and don't have access to cheap unbranded stuff by the makers of the good stuff. The only things that can be had cheaply are the crap that fries everything and is super inefficient (and really, I doubt that what you have is really much better, you'd have to actually open it up and look at the internals and learn more than 'they make the inside of a comp go zappy' to tell a difference. They are anything but 'simple'). Also, we don't pirate the crap out of windows.

Along with that, that's more the cost of each level of distribution. Retailers don't have no overhead, they have to buy a building and pay staff. They still have to make a profit themselves. The manufacturers sell whatever 'it' is to national distributors who sell to regional, eventually making it to retail. Your supposed first hand accounts would just be super low on that chain. That's sort of how things work.

What you're suggesting is simply cutting out the middleman, no more, no less.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 26, 2010 12:29:47 AM

Though if they are all simple machines with no graphics card that draws under 100W on load, cheap crap just might power it. Just sayin.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 26, 2010 5:32:43 AM

False_Dmitry_II said:
@calguyhunk

That's nice. We aren't in india and don't have access to cheap unbranded stuff by the makers of the good stuff. The only things that can be had cheaply are the crap that fries everything and is super inefficient (and really, I doubt that what you have is really much better, you'd have to actually open it up and look at the internals and learn more than 'they make the inside of a comp go zappy' to tell a difference. They are anything but 'simple'). Also, we don't pirate the crap out of windows.

Along with that, that's more the cost of each level of distribution. Retailers don't have no overhead, they have to buy a building and pay staff. They still have to make a profit themselves. The manufacturers sell whatever 'it' is to national distributors who sell to regional, eventually making it to retail. Your supposed first hand accounts would just be super low on that chain. That's sort of how things work.

What you're suggesting is simply cutting out the middleman, no more, no less.



Exactly!!! I was indeed saying that here in India, & presumably in China as well, people have the option to cut out the various distributors, wholesalers, etc. , thereby getting much better bang for the buck. We order in bulk (1000+ each order, directly from their website, using our unique customer ID.), thereby getting big discounts on top of the already low prices. The product ships directly from the factory floor, thereby cutting out the middlemen. The only middlemen are the transporters.

I suppose the only flipside is, that arrivals are'nt always on time (they first have to serve their "BIG" clients first, you see). But we make up for that by building up inventories.

But you just went from the sublime to the ridiculous in one short sentence. You just contradicted yourself by saying "I doubt that what you have is really much better, "!!!!!.

Wake up & smell the coffee, man. It's the SAME thing---just before the sticker goes in (& the sticker price jacks up inordinately). You're right, btw. It's not much better. In fact, it's not even a little better. It's EXACTLY THE SAME.

Also about the " we don't pirate the crap out of windows" part. Good on ya, mate, though there are many people 'round the world - code jocks and/or hardware engineers who also don't use "genuine", not because they can't afford it, but out of utter disregard for scumbag multi-billion dollar corporations (Enron, Worldcomm, AIG, Lehman Brothers, BP anyone???). Not just bad for wall street, but also for the main street not to mention the environment, wildlife, etc.

I don't wanna take this discussion into the realms of the surreal hyperbole any more than we already have, but just thought you guys would like to know how stuff works outside of "the land of the free, & the home of the brave", you know.

That piracy thing might not be palatable to many--- I get it. It's illegal, you see. (Not that it stops people from running stop signs/red lights, driving drunk, drinking underage, smoking pot, doing drugs, having relationships with underage partners ---and the list I think pretty much goes on). What's bad for society? But of course pirated software.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 26, 2010 1:29:32 PM

Timop said:
Though if they are all simple machines with no graphics card that draws under 100W on load, cheap crap just might power it. Just sayin.



100 Watts!!! LAWL. :lol: 

What am I talking about here? 500 mhz processors with a 64 mb memory stick, B/W CRT monitor, running DOS with non existent graphics?

Hell no!!! I'm taking 'bout Core 2 Duo's, Athlon II's or higher (Single GFX) running WIN 7 Ultimate/ XP PRO. Of course, the wattages (and hence the prices) go up with the Core i's/Phenom II's but not by a great deal. Of course, you also gotta ask your client whether he/she wants to SLI/Crossfire in the near future & choose the PSU accordingly, thereby pricing the system slightly higher.

Our supplier in Shenzen also supplies components (not fully built-up units) to Seasonic, Antec (Earthwatts/Truepower) etc, and also fully builds their "Basiq" series.

They are also the oem's for Corsair, Thermaltake, Rosewill and also for Nokia, Motorola etc. (battery chargers).
They also make car battery components for some of the best Indian car battery manufacturers like Tata, Exide etc.
They are also the OEM's for Indian UPS and Inverter majors like Microtek, Luminous etc.
Trust me when I say this, guys --- They really make great, reliable products & we get them at a fraction of the avg. retail costs.


Again, the words "CHEAP" & "INEXPENSIVE" are not synonymous & interchangeable. Value for money does'nt have to be "cheap crap" (not my expression).
a b B Homebuilt system
July 26, 2010 1:30:45 PM

False_Dmitry_II said:
@calguyhunk

That's nice. We aren't in india and don't have access to cheap unbranded stuff by the makers of the good stuff. The only things that can be had cheaply are the crap that fries everything and is super inefficient (and really, I doubt that what you have is really much better, you'd have to actually open it up and look at the internals and learn more than 'they make the inside of a comp go zappy' to tell a difference. They are anything but 'simple'). Also, we don't pirate the crap out of windows.

Along with that, that's more the cost of each level of distribution. Retailers don't have no overhead, they have to buy a building and pay staff. They still have to make a profit themselves. The manufacturers sell whatever 'it' is to national distributors who sell to regional, eventually making it to retail. Your supposed first hand accounts would just be super low on that chain. That's sort of how things work.

What you're suggesting is simply cutting out the middleman, no more, no less.



No one is forcing anyone to use any component that he/she is not comfortable with. I'm just detailing the reality, as I know it. Rather than resisting the truth, isn't it better, to accept the truth, and try to learn how the world really goes around?
a b B Homebuilt system
July 26, 2010 3:39:43 PM

calguyhunk said:
100 Watts!!! LAWL. :lol: 

What am I talking about here? 500 mhz processors with a 64 mb memory stick, B/W CRT monitor, running DOS with non existent graphics?

Hell no!!! I'm taking 'bout Core 2 Duo's, Athlon II's or higher (Single GFX) running WIN 7 Ultimate/ XP PRO. Of course, the wattages (and hence the prices) go up with the Core i's/Phenom II's but not by a great deal. Of course, you also gotta ask your client whether he/she wants to SLI/Crossfire in the near future & choose the PSU accordingly, thereby pricing the system slightly higher.

Our supplier in Shenzen also supplies components (not fully built-up units) to Seasonic, Antec (Earthwatts/Truepower) etc, and also fully builds their "Basiq" series.

They are also the oem's for Corsair, Thermaltake, Rosewill and also for Nokia, Motorola etc. (battery chargers).
They also make car battery components for some of the best Indian car battery manufacturers like Tata, Exide etc.
They are also the OEM's for Indian UPS and Inverter majors like Microtek, Luminous etc.
Trust me when I say this, guys --- They really make great, reliable products & we get them at a fraction of the avg. retail costs.


Again, the words "CHEAP" & "INEXPENSIVE" are not synonymous & interchangeable. Value for money does'nt have to be "cheap crap" (not my expression).


A Athlon X2/Core i3 + IGP computer only draws 100W on load.

The point is, no matter you're in China/India/US/Europe, when you order in bulk, you're obviously gonna get lower prices. But why would any one order in bulk, unless they have a business?

Ordering 1000 PSUs for $10 when you only need 1 that retails for $100 is not logical a all.
July 26, 2010 11:02:23 PM

Who would have thought that a discussion aimed at helping a new builder would turn into a discussion of macro-economics?

We can argue about "quality" all day and the great advantages of "quality" components over generic models. My simple point was that one should intelligently invest money in components where "name" brand components matter (i.e. motherboard, cpu, gpu, and hard drive). The other components (case, psu, cables, even RAM) are standard items where the "generic" brands last just as long as the "name" brands.

Just as a Kia is not made as well as a Bentley, the Kia will still get you from point A to point B for several years. When people purchase automobiles they know the Bentley is better but the Kia will work for what they need it to do. They can use the money they save in not buying the Bentley to purchase other things (food, utilities, computers, etc.). They also know the Kia may not last as long as the Bentley (supposedly), but it is an acceptable loss.

My point is that you could buy a psu that costs 3 times as much as my generic psu ($30), but I'm still typing this post right now so this "cheap" psu has achieved its intended purpose. You can whine all day how yours is better than mine, but it doesn't change anything in reality. In reality, my psu works just as good as yours. It powers my latest MSI board, Phenom, and EVGA gpu. I have less than $1000 in my system, and it will keep with any of your "name" brand components.

So you can argue all day about your "quality," "name-brand" components while I invest the extra $1000 I saved from buying generic components and continue to buy other parts from China, slapping lables on them, putting them in a pretty box, and selling them to you for a profit. Enjoy your quality stuff while I enjoy $1000.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 27, 2010 6:44:09 AM

First off, one of the points I was making was that many of us here are fully aware of how things work. You aren't telling us new stuff.

You simply share the same utter disregard for PSU's as most people do. Even the ones that are for $30 here retail (or at least on newegg) are not guaranteed to fail spectacularly. They just have a much higher chance: one of my 430-watt ones that was like that did fail spectacularly, it became a smoke machine I was just lucky it didn't take anything else with it. It will also have something to do with system stability and longevity - though on longevity I'm talking 10-20 years. Cheap ones like that will negatively affect it. Testing how much is simultaneously almost irrelevant and impossible to do. (But it helps in not needing to replace it every new build and also in selling my old pieces)

"Our supplier in Shenzen also supplies components (not fully built-up units) to Seasonic, Antec (Earthwatts/Truepower) etc, and also fully builds their "Basiq" series."

I did not contradict myself at all. This is exactly my point. WHICH of those is your stuff? Even that small smattering of things that have been well known and tested and opened up is quite a wide range of stuff. Admittedly none of which is the utter crap the $30 one would be. But the Basiq is much less than the other two. Based on the fact that they only make pieces of the other two, I'd say that what you get is probably the same as the Basiq's.

You also mentioned Rosewill's PSU's (newegg's store brand). I highly doubt they have only one manufacturer for those, they just have too many different product lines in that category of themselves highly differing quality. (Much more than any of what I quoted from you)

P.S. Who the h*** needs to buy cables? Motherboard boxes always have way too many. RAM shouldn't last any longer no, but they do perform quite differently. But then you'd have to read stats on things and who wants to do that? Just buy the OCZ DDR3 RAM and fry your mobo trying to give it enough power to function correctly.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 27, 2010 10:02:44 AM

False_Dmitry_II said:


P.S. Who the h*** needs to buy cables? Motherboard boxes always have way too many. RAM shouldn't last any longer no, but they do perform quite differently. But then you'd have to read stats on things and who wants to do that? Just buy the OCZ DDR3 RAM and fry your mobo trying to give it enough power to function correctly.




HUH !!! ???
a b B Homebuilt system
July 27, 2010 10:52:21 AM

Timop said:


The point is, no matter you're in China/India/US/Europe, when you order in bulk, you're obviously gonna get lower prices. But why would any one order in bulk, unless they have a business?

Ordering 1000 PSUs for $10 when you only need 1 that retails for $100 is not logical a all.



I would have thought, that a lot of the guys here are pro system builders themselves, or have interests in this industry.

You don't need to order 1000. That's what WE do. Just ordering 10/12+ at one go normally constitutes "bulk".
Of course, different suppliers define "bulk" differently. Though the rates are not gonna be the same, they are still gonna get significantly & progressively lower over time.

I don't know how significantly though, with a stiffening anti-dumping duty structure for goods & a higher tax regime for outsourced services. Seems like people are destined to pay higher for commodities and services in the near future. ;)  (Though computer hardware in general costs a lot lower in the U.S. than anywhere else).

Of course, individuals, building for themselves are not gonna benefit much, but for pro (commercial) system builders it's of tremendous help.

One of course needs to exercise a tremendous amount of caution while dealing with the Chinese manufacturers, and
you are well advised to steer clear if you can't tell s*** from shinola. A lot of them sell absolute unqualified trash that
can & WILL drag your mobo etc. to it's own funeral.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 27, 2010 2:19:37 PM

calguyhunk said:
I would have thought, that a lot of the guys here are pro system builders themselves, or have interests in this industry.

You don't need to order 1000. That's what WE do. Just ordering 10/12+ at one go normally constitutes "bulk".
Of course, different suppliers define "bulk" differently. Though the rates are not gonna be the same, they are still gonna get significantly & progressively lower over time.

I don't know how significantly though, with a stiffening anti-dumping duty structure for goods & a higher tax regime for outsourced services. Seems like people are destined to pay higher for commodities and services in the near future. ;)  (Though computer hardware in general costs a lot lower in the U.S. than anywhere else).

Of course, individuals, building for themselves are not gonna benefit much, but for pro (commercial) system builders it's of tremendous help.

One of course needs to exercise a tremendous amount of caution while dealing with the Chinese manufacturers, and
you are well advised to steer clear if you can't tell s*** from shinola. A lot of them sell absolute unqualified trash that
can & WILL drag your mobo etc. to it's own funeral.

Lower quantity = higher prices, and yes I do know how bulk works.

My point is for most people (like me) who doesn't really build system for a living, doing this would just be alot of fuss and time wasted while not actually benifiting from the process, and we might be potentially getting ripped off buying inferior products, as you pointed out.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 27, 2010 3:36:12 PM

Timop said:
Lower quantity = higher prices, and yes I do know how bulk works.

My point is for most people (like me) who doesn't really build system for a living, doing this would just be alot of fuss and time wasted while not actually benifiting from the process, and we might be potentially getting ripped off buying inferior products, as you pointed out.



You're right. For individual enthusiasts, it wouldn't just be fussy, it would be downright impossible (no bulk = no discount) .

And did you say "might be ripped off" ? might be??? Ha! Ha! Sure as heck you will be. Betcha bottom dollar on that. That's why we gotta tread with extreme caution to get the good stuff @ low prices. Anyone can get crap for less. Where's the credit in that? And also, more importantly, it's bad business ethics and bad for your reputation to sell sub-standard stuff.

Thank God. Finally we agree on something. :) 
a b B Homebuilt system
July 27, 2010 4:06:14 PM

The PS was directed at the other guy.

I guess other than that you didn't have a problem with my post.

Of course if you would tell us who they are and how to order then we wouldn't be checking the bottom of the barrel stuff, (if we even attempted that instead of finding, say, one of the EarthWatts ones for nearly half off) but it'd take even me a while to run through even 10. I do build for friends and stuff (for a fee of course) but that's mainly because they see how rock solid all of my computers are. They generally have had all sorts of problems with computers beforehand with general system stability and are amazed when theirs just runs like it should. Though I pretty much just finished doing it for them, so unless random people start wanting custom ones I don't think I'll have an actual need.

Also we were trying to tell you that most of the time you'd only find the makers of the crappy one that can be found for like $30 here. You kept telling us that it was certainly only the top stuff. While it's really probably the antec basiq's that you're getting, which is good but not top stuff. Now you suddenly agree with this sentiment.

@OP, Sorry about the sidetrack about unobtainable $10 PSU's.

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

MOBO and PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

That's what you asked for and there you go. Much cheaper for those components. There were some deals with cases on the CPU and prolly the GPU too (you'll need a large one for that) but I don't know if you have one so I didn't look.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 27, 2010 6:21:42 PM

ahthurungnone said:
Yes, you're right 10,000rpm would be the limit. SSD's are still new and unproven. The problem with SSD's is the data is not physically stored on a drive, so there is no way to recover information off a dead SSD's. We should probably wait a couple years to make a verdict on SSD's.


I know this is going back a ways, but I feel compelled to respond to this.

Unless the SSD is bricked by firmware, this is false. I have no idea what you mean by "data is not physcially stored on a drive". 1s and 0s are stored on the SSD much like in a USB drive. Would you say that USB keys don't physically store the data on a drive?

An SSD that is no longer writable (due to wear) should still readable, making them more, not less reliable than traditional hard drives.

What is true is that if data is deleted via TRIM, it's unrecoverable, as it's truly gone, and has been completely erased.

SSDs are still expensive, but they're reliable enough for everyday use. If your budget is $2k+, it should be an option, but it's not necessarily something you have to buy.
a b B Homebuilt system
July 28, 2010 9:32:47 PM

False_Dmitry_II said:
The PS was directed at the other guy.

Yup! I got that.


I think the Thermaltake $30 one ain't that flash. Dunno 'bout the other ones. Think it's a 430 Watt one, not sure though.

Anyways, don't think an Antec Basiq 350 watts for 8 - 9 US$ is a bad deal at all.
As I said most of the complaints are about Asus/Giga/MSI mobos, Barracuda/Velociraptor/Spinpoint hard drives, dead RAM sticks, & also Lg/SS/Dell/Acer monitors with dead pixels etc. Barely any about dysfunctional/unstable/inefficient PSU's.

You asked me about a site where you can find potential suppliers. You might wanna check out trade sites like "alibaba.com" & others like it.

1. You'll have to install a trade manager plugin to get quotes.

2. More importantly, you'll have to travel to China to actually tell the good from the bad, & the bad from the really fugly.
!