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BSOD on AMD X3 440 running Windows 7 with 4GB RAM in dual channel

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September 26, 2010 4:58:53 AM

Hi,
I have a system running AMD Athlon II X3 440 on MSI 880GMA-E45 motherboard with 2X2GB Corsair DDR3 RAM (1333MHz). The OS is Windows 7 Ultimate Ed. 32bit. There have been several instances of BSOD on this system in a few days of assembling!! When I run this system on single 2GB chip in any of the four RAM slots, the system runs fine. What could be causing the problem with Dual channel 4GB RAM then? DO I need to change BIOS settings for this? Pls. help!! Thanks.
a c 142 à CPUs
a b $ Windows 7
a b À AMD
September 26, 2010 11:37:41 PM

Have you checked that the MSI drivers are not auto overclocking ?
That the memory is running a spec voltages and timiings (sometimes they dont get setup correctly)?
Set Spread Spectrum to { Disabled }
Set Auto Disable DRAM/PCI Frequency to { Enabled }
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September 27, 2010 4:33:38 PM

popatim said:
Have you checked that the MSI drivers are not auto overclocking ?
That the memory is running a spec voltages and timiings (sometimes they dont get setup correctly)?
Set Spread Spectrum to { Disabled }
Set Auto Disable DRAM/PCI Frequency to { Enabled }


No, I haven't checked anything in the BIOS yet... Can I change the voltage of RAM chips without damaging them? Pls. elaborate... thanks.
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a c 110 à CPUs
a b À AMD
September 27, 2010 6:20:53 PM

Download and install CPUz.

Compare your RAM settings under the memory tab to the spec settings under the SPD tab in the *667MHz* column. (AMD RAMs are 'double-pumped' so 667MHz x 2 = 1333MHz)

The SPD tab should also list your spec voltage.

You may then need to enter the BIOS and manually set your timings and voltage as shown in the SPD tab.

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September 29, 2010 4:25:56 AM

will try and do this... :)  thanks... but i want to ask that shouldn't RAM chips be automatically aligned in dual channel when they are inserted one-by-one in a new system? why do we need to manually set their voltage or latency?
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a c 196 à CPUs
a b À AMD
September 29, 2010 4:30:43 AM

They are aligned with each other, but not all chips are made the same, some need higher voltage to run stable at stock speed and timings, some higher quality ones can run at higher speed and tighter timings at the stock 1.5V. Thanks to the new intel CPUs many ram manufacturers are producing kits that need 1.65V to run at their advertised speed, if you have one of those kits you definitely need to up the voltage.

The RAM chips are not supposed to be damanged by anything below about 1.95V according to JEDEC so going from 1.5V to 1.65V poses no risk.
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September 29, 2010 8:54:33 AM

ok thanks... actually my config is AMD based:
AMD Athlon II X3 440 on MSI 880GMA-E45 motherboard with 2X2GB Corsair DDR3 RAM (1333MHz)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (32bit)

any suggestions for this case?
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a c 110 à CPUs
a b À AMD
September 30, 2010 6:15:17 PM

It's kind of like this ...

JEDEC sets the minimum (read: W I D E :lol:  ) open standards. The problem is nobody wants to do just the 'minimum'.

SPD (serial presence detect) is supposed to read the specs for your RAMs (for the most part it does, but sometimes SPD gets thrown a few curve balls). Certain varieties of Corsair memory have 'advanced' profiles called XMP (which is just a souped-up version of SPD for 'performance' settings). Other memory vendors have their own 'special' ways about them, too.

So the motherboard manufacturers are sweating bullets, and have a great deal of memory landscape to cover. They think to themselves: "Man ... we have to to do the minimum to make sure we fire this mother up. We don't want a bunch of bricks out there with our name on them. Not-good-for-bidness."

So they pick a real cozy place with their memory timings and voltages under JEDEC standards in hopes of covering as much memory landscape as possible using the SPD. But sometimes there is a "failure to communicate" - LOL

That motherboard is going to get you to boot, and it might do it in a way that does not optimize the fancy advanced profile under which your memory vendor wants their product to function. Sometimes, what the motherboard 'detects' in timings and voltage will not 'optimize' the memory to the specs of the manufacturer.

So ... you have to do it manually.

Fire up CPUz and compare those readings. THEN (to be safe) compare the SPD settings with the specifications set forth by Corsair. Hopefully, everything will jive, and you can manually enter the timings and voltage required for 'high-performance'.
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October 1, 2010 6:11:08 AM

thanks :)  ... will try and do the needful and then get back ...
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October 8, 2010 2:59:23 PM

Hi,

The system runs just fine on 1 chip. The problem starts when 2 chips r inserted in dual channel mode. I installed CPUz and the readings on the SPD and Memory tab were the same!! The readings are as follows:
DRAM frequency: 666.7 MHz
FSB-DRAM: 3:10
CAS Latency: 9
RAS to CAS Delay: 9
RAS Precharge: 9
Cycle time: 24
Bank cycle time: 34
Command Rate: 1T
Voltage: 1.50 V
Corsair Part no.: VS2GB1333D4

Another problem is that there is no support / specs for this model of RAM on the Corsair Website!! Strange!!

And I have also made the changes as mentioned above in one of the posts above in the mobo BIOS:
Set Spread Spectrum to { Disabled }
Set Auto Disable DRAM/PCI Frequency to { Enabled }
But this was done after the BSOD appeared.

Now, pls. let me know if there is anything else I can do ... or should I get the RAM chips replaced with some other make? Should I upgrade the MSI mobo BIOS from ver 17.4 to 17.6 (latest)? Will it help solve the BSOD? Pls. reply ASAP. Thanks!! :) 
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October 9, 2010 4:53:27 PM

hi,
An addition to the above post... the BIOS has been upgraded to ver. 17.6 (latest available for this board) and still BSOD appeared!!! Does this leave me with the only option to run Memtest and check for any corruption in the RAM chips? Can anybody pls. let me know the correct timings and voltage that the Corsair Part no.: VS2GB1333D4 chips are supposed to run on? Thanks!! :) 
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a c 110 à CPUs
a b À AMD
October 9, 2010 6:58:41 PM

Did you *un-gang* the memory controller ?

Did you try each stick independently by themselves ?

This won't be very reassuring but there is not a single stick of Corsair on the MSI QVL list for that motherboard. I like MSI stuff for the most part but have run into memory issues on older boards.

http://www.msi.com/uploads/test_report/TR10_2061.pdf

I have to assume that the SPD setting would be correct as the mobo is reading them. Running MemTest (or the Win memory diagnostic) may give you an idea of where you stand with the sticks.

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October 9, 2010 8:31:23 PM

Wisecracker said:
Did you *un-gang* the memory controller ?

Did you try each stick independently by themselves ?

This won't be very reassuring but there is not a single stick of Corsair on the MSI QVL list for that motherboard. I like MSI stuff for the most part but have run into memory issues on older boards.

http://www.msi.com/uploads/test_report/TR10_2061.pdf

I have to assume that the SPD setting would be correct as the mobo is reading them. Running MemTest (or the Win memory diagnostic) may give you an idea of where you stand with the sticks.



Hi! I happened to read your response just now. Let me introduce myself. Actually, I am the victim of the BSOD problem being discussed here and man30 is a dear friend of mine who has been helping me troubleshoot the problem. So thanks for all your responses. :) 

I am not sure what "ungang" means. Can you elaborate?

I ran Memtest 86+ on the system today. It ran for over 7 hrs, 45 mins and displayed 2 errors in 8 passes. I am not sure if this would mean anything, but here are the error details:

TST - 7, Pass - 3, Failing Address - 00108ccb2bc - 4236.7 MB, Good - e359e6c0, Bad - e35966c0, Err-Bits - 00008000, Count -1, Chan -

TST - 8, Pass 5, Failing Address - 001006c32bc - 4102.7 MB, Good - b936fbd3, Bad - b9367bd3, Err-Bits - 00008000, Count - 2, Chan -

I've not run Memtest on the individual RAM sticks though. As man30 has already mentioned, when the system is run on the RAM sticks individually [one stick at a time], there is no instance of BSOD. BSOD occurs only with both RAM sticks together.

Yesterday, I had used a software called "Blue Screen View" to check out the details of my dump files. The first 2 dump files display a bug check string "Bad Pool Caller/Header" while the remaining 4 dump files display "IRQL Not Less or Equal"

So what do you think could be causing the BSOD? Are both the RAM sticks corrupt? And why is it that they run fine individually?
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October 10, 2010 5:16:34 AM

I think we should go in for a change of RAM chips ... best to replace with other make preferably adata or kingston or kingmax... as the memtest has confirmed errors with the Corsair chips ...
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October 10, 2010 5:18:25 AM

and of course thanks to all of u nice ppl out there for helping solve this issue ... will post the results when the chips r replaced with new ones :) 
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a c 110 à CPUs
a b À AMD
October 10, 2010 1:54:18 PM

The AMD arch utilizes a 128-bit (2x64-bit 'ganged') memory controller. It's faster but less stable when the 2x64-bit controllers are 'ganged' as 128-bit. If you 'ungang' the memory controller it will operate in '2x64-bit' mode and your memory performance will be marginally effected in certain instances, but much more stable overall. There should be a setting in the BIOS to accomplish the un-ganging.

If you launch CPUz, under the memory tab in the upper right-hand corner it will report the **DC Mode**

BUT this is looking more and more like a compatibility issue. A friendly email to Corsair may also offer some explanation.

Good luck! Let's us know how it works out.



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October 10, 2010 3:30:49 PM

Wisecracker said:
The AMD arch utilizes a 128-bit (2x64-bit 'ganged') memory controller. It's faster but less stable when the 2x64-bit controllers are 'ganged' as 128-bit. If you 'ungang' the memory controller it will operate in '2x64-bit' mode and your memory performance will be marginally effected in certain instances, but much more stable overall. There should be a setting in the BIOS to accomplish the un-ganging.

If you launch CPUz, under the memory tab in the upper right-hand corner it will report the **DC Mode**

BUT this is looking more and more like a compatibility issue. A friendly email to Corsair may also offer some explanation.

Good luck! Let's us know how it works out.


I checked the memory tab in CPUz. The DC Mode shows *Unganged*

We've already sent the e-mail to Corsair. No reply yet though :( 

Hopefully, we'll manage to find compatible RAM soon.
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October 11, 2010 5:49:58 AM

Just one small clarification. When I go shopping for RAMs [2X2GB], do I need to ensure that their specs match the ones listed under the 666 MHz column of the SPD tab in CPUz? Are these the recommended specs of my MSI mobo for RAMs?
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November 6, 2010 5:56:55 AM

Hi,

I managed to get responses from Corsair Tech Support for my problem. They took some time in responding initially but then the messages kept flowing! The purpose was to try to figure out the cause of the BSODs and, if possible, find a suitable RAM [2X2 GB] from Corsair that is compatible with my system.

Corsair asked me to request for an RMA, which I did. But I am not sure what to make of their last couple of messages, which seem to be headed into a loop, probably due to my limited knowledge! :)  From what little I could decipher, they seem to be saying that I cannot run DDR3 or 2 GB modules or both on my system! Is this applicable only to Corsair or all brands? And why would that be so?

Incidentally, I am still running my system on the single 2 GB DDR 3 Corsair RAM with no BSODs. If you recollect, my friend and I had decided to try a different brand of RAM from the reseller. However, I haven't yet sought replacement as I was waiting for Corsair's response.

I am sharing the entire communication with you in the hope that you might enlighten me on what Corsair is saying. :) 

Please follow the link below to access the communication:


http://www.corsair.com/helpdesk/message_reply.aspx?id=1...
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a c 110 à CPUs
a b À AMD
November 6, 2010 12:26:28 PM

I like the Corsair tech support format but some of their responses to you leave a lot to be desired :) 

Quote:
The CPU you have only supports DDR1066 they will run in that system but you will need to set the memory frequency at DDR1066 have you tried that?


Quote:
The system you entered will not suggest DDR1333 memory or 2.0 Gig modules the suggested module would be VS1GB533D2 and you can use two of them for a total of 2.0 Gig.


This is simply incorrect and misleading. Corsair seems to be suggesting that if you wish to use their memory in the 880GMA-E45 (an AM3 motherboard with DDR3 memory) you may only use a maximum of 2x1GB sticks of Corsair DDR2 1066MHz memory. In the States we would call that a Major Fail.

Sorry for your troubles.

MSI has qualified dozens of brands of DDR3 1333 for your motherboard, including 2x2GB and 4x2GB configurations. It also looks as if they have qualified a dozen or so 2x4GB & 4x4GB DDR3 1333 brands.

None of which appear to be Corsair.

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November 6, 2010 7:52:44 PM

I'm following this thread closely!

Been trying to figure out random freezes on friends computer too:

MSI 760GM-E51 AM3 AMD 760G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon II X3 440 Rana
CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 DDR3 1600 CMX4GX3M2A1600C9

not hijacking, please continue...
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November 7, 2010 4:49:12 AM

Wisecracker said:
I like the Corsair tech support format but some of their responses to you leave a lot to be desired :) 

Quote:
The CPU you have only supports DDR1066 they will run in that system but you will need to set the memory frequency at DDR1066 have you tried that?


Quote:
The system you entered will not suggest DDR1333 memory or 2.0 Gig modules the suggested module would be VS1GB533D2 and you can use two of them for a total of 2.0 Gig.


This is simply incorrect and misleading. Corsair seems to be suggesting that if you wish to use their memory in the 880GMA-E45 (an AM3 motherboard with DDR3 memory) you may only use a maximum of 2x1GB sticks of Corsair DDR2 1066MHz memory. In the States we would call that a Major Fail.

Sorry for your troubles.

MSI has qualified dozens of brands of DDR3 1333 for your motherboard, including 2x2GB and 4x2GB configurations. It also looks as if they have qualified a dozen or so 2x4GB & 4x4GB DDR3 1333 brands.

None of which appear to be Corsair.



That was reassuring! And as always, thanks a lot for clarifying my doubts.
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a b à CPUs
November 7, 2010 3:22:43 PM

Quote:
The system runs just fine on 1 chip. The problem starts when 2 chips r inserted in dual channel mode.

Even though your manual says to split two modules up and insert them in to different channels, have you tried inserting them together in either the blue or black slots as a pair ?
Quote:
They are aligned with each other, but not all chips are made the same, some need higher voltage to run stable at stock speed and timings, some higher quality ones can run at higher speed and tighter timings at the stock 1.5V. Thanks to the new intel CPUs many ram manufacturers are producing kits that need 1.65V to run at their advertised speed, if you have one of those kits you definitely need to up the voltage.

The RAM chips are not supposed to be damanged by anything below about 1.95V according to JEDEC so going from 1.5V to 1.65V poses no risk.

As mentioned by Hunter315, some modules need a little more voltage to run at rated speeds.

g/l
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November 7, 2010 3:50:55 PM

Well, I wasn't really aware of any rules regarding the particular slots in which to insert the RAM sticks. There are two pairs of RAM slots in my mobo, blue and black. And each of the 2 GB sticks were inserted in adjacent, same-color [blue] slots. Are you suggesting that each of the RAM sticks should have been inserted in different color slots [one in blue and the other in black] and that this is the reason for the BSODs?
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a b à CPUs
November 7, 2010 4:15:35 PM

I'm only suggesting some MB's are picky about where they run two sticks. The picture on page 2-6 shows two sticks together in the same channel, but rule #2 in the note below the picture states differently..

*Important

*DDR3 memory modules are not interchangeable with DDR2 and the DDR3 standard
is not backwards compatible. You should always install DDR3 memory modules in
the DDR3 DIMM slots.
*In Dual-Channel mode, make sure that you install memory modules of the same type
and density in different channel DIMM slots.
*To enable successful system boot-up, always insert the memory modules into the
DIMM1 first.

Only suggesting you try moving them around to make sure.

I've seen memtest error due to not enough voltage.

g/l
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February 9, 2012 11:27:34 AM

man30 said:
and of course thanks to all of u nice ppl out there for helping solve this issue ... will post the results when the chips r replaced with new ones :) 


Did the new memory modules solve the problem? I'm having the exact same issue and I have Corsair sticks.
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a b à CPUs
a b $ Windows 7
February 9, 2012 2:59:53 PM

Stupid question, but why hasn't the BSOD STOP Code/Error Message been posted yet?
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February 10, 2012 4:25:35 AM

HockeyDad84 said:
Did the new memory modules solve the problem? I'm having the exact same issue and I have Corsair sticks.

My apologies for not informing you folks earlier. I swapped the 2X2 GB Corsair RAM sticks with 2X2 GB Kingston. It's been over a year now and no signs of any BSOD. So I guess Corsair RAM was not compatible with my mobo.
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