Anomen: cleric or fighter?

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I haven't encountered him yet, but I'm thinking about who I want my
party to be. I'd like to have a cleric, but I was wondering if he dualed
to a cleric, or if he's a fighter now.
 
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John Salerno wrote:

> I haven't encountered him yet, but I'm thinking about who I want my
> party to be. I'd like to have a cleric, but I was wondering if he dualed
> to a cleric, or if he's a fighter now.

He's a fighter-to-cleric dual-class.
 
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Kish wrote:

> He's a fighter-to-cleric dual-class.

Ah, good. Thanks!
 
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So how does this sound:

Salastus (my mage)
Imoen
Jaheira
Anomen
Minsc
Yoshimo

I figure Minsc and Anomen can be my front liners (and Minsc can do
ranged too, if need be), Anomen and Jaheira can both heal (especially
Anomen, and raise dead, etc.), Salastus and Imoen can cast spells, Imoen
and Jaheira can attacked with bows, and Yoshimo can either attack melee
or ranged, and both Imoen and Yoshimo can detect/disarm traps, pick
locks, set traps, etc.

That seems pretty balanced to me. What do you think?


Kish wrote:


> John Salerno wrote:
>
>> I haven't encountered him yet, but I'm thinking about who I want my
>> party to be. I'd like to have a cleric, but I was wondering if he
>> dualed to a cleric, or if he's a fighter now.
>
>
> He's a fighter-to-cleric dual-class.
 
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John Salerno wrote:

> So how does this sound:
>
> Salastus (my mage)
> Imoen
> Jaheira
> Anomen
> Minsc
> Yoshimo
>
> I figure Minsc and Anomen can be my front liners (and Minsc can do
> ranged too, if need be), Anomen and Jaheira can both heal (especially
> Anomen, and raise dead, etc.), Salastus and Imoen can cast spells, Imoen
> and Jaheira can attacked with bows, and Yoshimo can either attack melee
> or ranged, and both Imoen and Yoshimo can detect/disarm traps, pick
> locks, set traps, etc.
>
> That seems pretty balanced to me. What do you think?

That's a pretty good party, but, I'd advise choosing a seventh party
member as well--there are large portions of the game where one of those
characters won't be available to you.
 
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"Kish" <Kish_K@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:CJLec.22018$Ue5.10534@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
> John Salerno wrote:
>
> > So how does this sound:
> >
> > Salastus (my mage)
> > Imoen
> > Jaheira
> > Anomen
> > Minsc
> > Yoshimo
> >
> > I figure Minsc and Anomen can be my front liners (and Minsc can do
> > ranged too, if need be), Anomen and Jaheira can both heal
(especially
> > Anomen, and raise dead, etc.), Salastus and Imoen can cast spells,
Imoen
> > and Jaheira can attacked with bows, and Yoshimo can either attack
melee
> > or ranged, and both Imoen and Yoshimo can detect/disarm traps,
pick
> > locks, set traps, etc.
> >
> > That seems pretty balanced to me. What do you think?
>
> That's a pretty good party, but, I'd advise choosing a seventh party
> member as well--there are large portions of the game where one of
those
> characters won't be available to you.

You may also be a bit light on fighters. Find an extra fighter-type -
with your party, you'd want one that is GOOD, not EVIL - to replace
Imoen for now. I assume you've already lost Imoen (and yes, this loss
is temporary, but it's for the next three chapters of the game), since
you've met Anomen. BUT...

***SPOILER SPACE***
10

9

8

7

6

5

4

3

2

1

0

You will find out details of the game's plot, which end up with the
fact that Yoshimo and Imoen can never be in the same party together -
at least, not after you have escaped the initial dungeon and lost
Imoen. In fact...

*

*

*

*

*

you LOSE Yoshimo for good, about halfway through Chapter 4, which is
also when you find Imoen again. If you haven't taken Yoshimo at all,
but have six other people including yourself, you'd end up either
having to leave Imoen behind (or ask her to make her own way back
home, only ever to see her again in Chapter 6, by which time she will
be lagging so badly in levels that she would hardly be worth picking
up), or leave somebody ELSE behind - in a place where you really
wouldn't want to leave anybody. Taking Yoshimo up until then avoids
that problem, since he disappears for good at this time. The nature of
his disappearance, I'll leave up to you to discover.

But I'll also add, that Imoen on her own is capable of covering all
the *truly vital* facets of thievery, i.e. Open Locks and Find Traps.
She can use Invisibility spells instead of the Stealth power, so the
only things she really misses are Backstab and Pick Pockets, neither
of which are that vital (Backstab would be pretty useless with her low
strength anyway, and Pick Pockets can be done quaffing several Potions
of Master Thievery.) She is stuck at 7th level as a thief forever, but
is advancing as a mage, so between her and yourself you do NOT need
any more magery - nor really any more thievery.

And no, you can't keep Yoshimo by dropping him at the end of chapter 3
and expecting him to still be there when you get back to the main town
of Athkatla in Chapter 6, because he won't. Anyway if he was, he'd be
seriously lagging in levels anyway by that time. Because you're out of
town during chapters 4 and 5, and you can only get back to the Chapter
5 areas, not the Chapter 4 areas - EVER.

Jonathan.
 
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Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> You may also be a bit light on fighters. Find an extra fighter-type -
> with your party, you'd want one that is GOOD, not EVIL - to replace
> Imoen for now. I assume you've already lost Imoen (and yes, this loss
> is temporary, but it's for the next three chapters of the game), since
> you've met Anomen. BUT...

I didn't read what was below the spoiler space, but it's good to know
that I won't have Imoen for a while. I was wondering how long that would
last. Right now I have the others, plus Aerie, but I know I won't keep
her. Soon I'll find Anomen. With Minsc, Anomen, and Yoshimo, you don't
think that's enough fighters?

I was also considering Keldorn or Valygar, so maybe one of those two
could take Imoen's place for a while?
 
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John Salerno wrote:

> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
>> You may also be a bit light on fighters. Find an extra fighter-type -
>> with your party, you'd want one that is GOOD, not EVIL - to replace
>> Imoen for now. I assume you've already lost Imoen (and yes, this loss
>> is temporary, but it's for the next three chapters of the game), since
>> you've met Anomen. BUT...
>
>
> I didn't read what was below the spoiler space, but it's good to know
> that I won't have Imoen for a while. I was wondering how long that would
> last. Right now I have the others, plus Aerie, but I know I won't keep
> her. Soon I'll find Anomen. With Minsc, Anomen, and Yoshimo, you don't
> think that's enough fighters?
>
> I was also considering Keldorn or Valygar, so maybe one of those two
> could take Imoen's place for a while?

I'd recommend Mazzy. She's available after you complete one of the side
quests outside Athkatla. She's the best archer in the game, and a decent
melee fighter (for a wee halfling lass:).

BTW, Imoen becomes an excellent mage later in the game. She's probably
the best good-aligned arcane spellcaster in the game (Aerie is close,
but she doesn't get high level spells as quickly because she's multiclass).
 
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John Salerno wrote:

> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
>> You may also be a bit light on fighters. Find an extra fighter-type -
>> with your party, you'd want one that is GOOD, not EVIL - to replace
>> Imoen for now. I assume you've already lost Imoen (and yes, this loss
>> is temporary, but it's for the next three chapters of the game), since
>> you've met Anomen. BUT...
>
>
> I didn't read what was below the spoiler space, but it's good to know
> that I won't have Imoen for a while. I was wondering how long that would
> last.

It pretty much depends on you. How long you spend in Chapter Two doing
side quests is up to you; you will come back to Athkatla later (in
Chapter Six) and can do any side quests you haven't yet done then. I
would recommend a relatively fast transition to Chapters Three and Four,
so that Imoen can share in the XP from the side quests.

> Right now I have the others, plus Aerie, but I know I won't keep
> her. Soon I'll find Anomen. With Minsc, Anomen, and Yoshimo, you don't
> think that's enough fighters?

Anomen is more cleric than fighter, and the higher level he gets the
wider the gap between him and a true warrior will stretch.

>
> I was also considering Keldorn or Valygar, so maybe one of those two
> could take Imoen's place for a while?

Good idea. Either is a good choice.
 
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"John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407b9076$0$2803$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> I didn't read what was below the spoiler space, but it's good to know
> that I won't have Imoen for a while. I was wondering how long that would
> last. Right now I have the others, plus Aerie, but I know I won't keep
> her. Soon I'll find Anomen. With Minsc, Anomen, and Yoshimo, you don't
> think that's enough fighters?
>
> I was also considering Keldorn or Valygar, so maybe one of those two
> could take Imoen's place for a while?

Yoshi is a sneak, not a fighter. I say 'sneak' affectionately because
I like sneaks, but if you plan on using him as a fighter you'll be very
disappointed with him.

I usually only have one fighter throughout SoA, so yes I think you're
fine with Minsc and Anomen.

Another fighter wouldn't hurt, but it's not necessary.

Anomen, despite being dualed to cleric, is one of the best fighters in
the game. He can put a full five proficiency stats into any weapon a
cleric can use (flail) and has a good natural strength. The priest spells
he can use to increase his fighting ability include Armor of Faith, Rightous
Magic, Champions Strength, and DUHM. If you keep Anomen, take a
look at these spells - with them he's better than most fighters.

He can summon aerial servants for extra muscle.

You'll want to find some way of raising his dexterity - and I'm sure
you will. Good luck!
 
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Kish wrote:

> Anomen is more cleric than fighter, and the higher level he gets the
> wider the gap between him and a true warrior will stretch.

Hmm, I didn't consider that. I was looking at his stats, and with a STR
of 18/52, I figured he'd be a good melee fighter regardless of his
class. Maybe that's not how I should look at it.
 
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> BTW, Imoen becomes an excellent mage later in the game. She's probably
> the best good-aligned arcane spellcaster in the game (Aerie is close,
> but she doesn't get high level spells as quickly because she's
multiclass).

Nalia is better. Only 4 thief levels, all the rest is mage. And Imoen is bit
low in level when you get her back (at least if you didn't rush there and
missed a lot of the game).
 
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Dirk Dreidoppel wrote:

>>BTW, Imoen becomes an excellent mage later in the game. She's probably
>>the best good-aligned arcane spellcaster in the game (Aerie is close,
>>but she doesn't get high level spells as quickly because she's
>
> multiclass).
>
> Nalia is better. Only 4 thief levels, all the rest is mage. And Imoen is bit
> low in level when you get her back (at least if you didn't rush there and
> missed a lot of the game).

I'm not too worried about that, because my player character is a mage
all the way, so none of the NPCs can be better than him. Here's his
stats too:

STR-8
DEX-18
CON-16
INT-18
WIS-18
CHA-15

I was hoping to get CHA up to 16 for the +4 modifier, but it's no big
deal. The rest is excellent.
 
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Dirk Dreidoppel wrote:
>>BTW, Imoen becomes an excellent mage later in the game. She's probably
>>the best good-aligned arcane spellcaster in the game (Aerie is close,
>>but she doesn't get high level spells as quickly because she's
>
> multiclass).
>
> Nalia is better. Only 4 thief levels, all the rest is mage.

Imoen's thief levels take up 40,000 of her xp, not enough for a BG2
level character to notice.

> And Imoen is bit
> low in level when you get her back (at least if you didn't rush there and
> missed a lot of the game).

Miss? There is nothing you can do in Chapter Two that you can't do in
Chapter Six.
 
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"kevin" <khiggins2@nyukhouston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8MPec.20412$jR6.9701@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:407b9076$0$2803$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> > I didn't read what was below the spoiler space, but it's good to know
> > that I won't have Imoen for a while. I was wondering how long that would
> > last. Right now I have the others, plus Aerie, but I know I won't keep
> > her. Soon I'll find Anomen. With Minsc, Anomen, and Yoshimo, you don't
> > think that's enough fighters?
....
> Anomen, despite being dualed to cleric, is one of the best fighters in
> the game. He can put a full five proficiency stats into any weapon a
> cleric can use (flail) and has a good natural strength. The priest spells
> he can use to increase his fighting ability include Armor of Faith,
Rightous
> Magic, Champions Strength, and DUHM. If you keep Anomen, take a
> look at these spells - with them he's better than most fighters.

He's a good tank: he can absorb a lot of damage because of
his high hit points and good AC. But he's a lousy fighter when
it comes to dealing damage, because of his bad THAC0.
In the early chapters, you don't notice that, but in ToB, he really
has problems to hit something. And in ToB the AC doesn't
really matter anymore: you will be hit. In ToB you win a fight
by dealing more damage than the enemy. And that makes
Anomen useless as a fighter.

Sure, after three rounds of buffing he becomes reasonable
(though still only two attacks/round), but by then most fights
are already over.

>
> He can summon aerial servants for extra muscle.
>
> You'll want to find some way of raising his dexterity - and I'm sure
> you will. Good luck!
 
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Wim Dekker wrote:

> He's a good tank: he can absorb a lot of damage because of
> his high hit points and good AC. But he's a lousy fighter when
> it comes to dealing damage, because of his bad THAC0.

The main reason I wanted him was because I'm always convinced I need a
cleric. (I had the same issue in BG1, even though I decided to use
Jaheira as my healer, and that was no problem.) So would you say I don't
really need a cleric, if I have Jaheira? Maybe I can replace Anomen with
Keldorn or Valygar.
 

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John wrote variously:

> Imoen and Jaheira can attacked with bows,

Jaheira can't use a bow, just darts or a sling.


> Jaheira as my healer, and that was no problem.) So would you say I don't
> really need a cleric, if I have Jaheira? Maybe I can replace Anomen with
> Keldorn or Valygar.

Jaheira can't turn undead; Anomen can. I generally include a "real"
cleric -- either Anomen or Aerie -- for that ability.

If I keep Jaheira in a party, it's for the side-quests associated with her,
rather than because her character is an effective addition to the party.
The most useful things I get out of her are Insect Plague (or its beefed-up
brother, Creeping Doom) or Summon Fire Elemental (or at higher levels,
Summon Elemental Prince).

Bob
 
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"John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407c1fea$0$2752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> Wim Dekker wrote:
>
> > He's a good tank: he can absorb a lot of damage because of
> > his high hit points and good AC. But he's a lousy fighter when
> > it comes to dealing damage, because of his bad THAC0.
>
> The main reason I wanted him was because I'm always convinced I need a
> cleric. (I had the same issue in BG1, even though I decided to use
> Jaheira as my healer, and that was no problem.) So would you say I don't
> really need a cleric, if I have Jaheira? Maybe I can replace Anomen with
> Keldorn or Valygar.

I wouldn't replace Anomen. He does make a good tank, even in ToB ( I have
him dual wielding the Flail of the Ages and Storm Star) and his base THAC0
is the same as Korgan and Sarevok because THAC0 stops improving once it hits
0.

John Salerno wrote:

> So how does this sound:
>
> Salastus (my mage)
> Imoen
> Jaheira
> Anomen
> Minsc
> Yoshimo

Without giving too much away . . .



The main point to consider is that you will lose Imoen before you encounter
Anomen, so you still have an empty slot to fill :^) All are good choices,
but Nalia and Imoen would be pretty redundant so I would not have both. I
like to have some muscle, so two fighters plus Anomen to dual task is good
for me. You can be successful with a more magic-based party though.
 
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Gwalchgwynn wrote:

> I wouldn't replace Anomen. He does make a good tank, even in ToB ( I have
> him dual wielding the Flail of the Ages and Storm Star) and his base THAC0
> is the same as Korgan and Sarevok because THAC0 stops improving once it hits
> 0.

Ok, so my original party sounds good then?

Salastus, Imoen, Anomen, Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshimo (and probably Keldorn
until I get Imoen back).
 
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"Dirk Dreidoppel" <dirk.dreidoppel@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:c5gnno$mf3$02$1@news.t-online.com...
> > BTW, Imoen becomes an excellent mage later in the game. She's
probably
> > the best good-aligned arcane spellcaster in the game (Aerie is
close,
> > but she doesn't get high level spells as quickly because she's
> multiclass).
>
> Nalia is better. Only 4 thief levels, all the rest is mage.

The difference isn't enough to mean that Imoen has a lower absolute
maximum mage level at all. Not even by one single solitary level. Both
can reach the same maximum level as mages (i.e. 17th with vanilla BG2,
31st if you have Throne of Bhaal as well): Imoen is better because she
has the extra levels of thief as well.

This is AD&D *2nd* edition, not 3rd, where multi-classing is frankly
penalised and the xp requirement for each new level (in whichever
class) keeps on increasing indefinitely. Once you get to level 10 or
so (sometimes 9, sometimes 11), it is the SAME to go up a level
whatever your class. Only if you are advancing in two classes AT ONCE
will you increase either one more slowly - Imoen advances as a mage,
at the SAME rate as Nalia does.

> And Imoen is bit low in level when you get her back (at least if you
didn't rush there
> and missed a lot of the game).

You can do that "lot of the game" in chapter 6. Anyway there's more
than enough XP in the game to put Imoen all the way up to the BG2-SoA
XP cap (and beyond, if you have Throne of Bhaal), no matter *how* low
level she is when you regain her.

Jonathan.
 
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Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> You can do that "lot of the game" in chapter 6. Anyway there's more
> than enough XP in the game to put Imoen all the way up to the BG2-SoA
> XP cap (and beyond, if you have Throne of Bhaal), no matter *how* low
> level she is when you regain her.

I'm glad you say that, because I don't want to rush through the first
few chapters, even if I can do them again in chapter 6. I figure it
isn't that hard to get her back up to the level of the rest of the group
later.
 
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John Salerno wrote:
> Gwalchgwynn wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't replace Anomen. He does make a good tank, even in ToB ( I have
>> him dual wielding the Flail of the Ages and Storm Star) and his base
>> THAC0
>> is the same as Korgan and Sarevok because THAC0 stops improving once
>> it hits
>> 0.
>
>
> Ok, so my original party sounds good then?
>
> Salastus, Imoen, Anomen, Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshimo (and probably Keldorn
> until I get Imoen back).

Yes, that's a strong party.
 
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"John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407c4366$0$2748$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
> > You can do that "lot of the game" in chapter 6. Anyway there's
more
> > than enough XP in the game to put Imoen all the way up to the
BG2-SoA
> > XP cap (and beyond, if you have Throne of Bhaal), no matter *how*
low
> > level she is when you regain her.
>
> I'm glad you say that, because I don't want to rush through the
first
> few chapters, even if I can do them again in chapter 6. I figure it
> isn't that hard to get her back up to the level of the rest of the
group
> later.

Actually, the trouble with THAT is, that as Imoen levels up, the rest
of the group levels up at the same pace... so if Imoen is behind,
she'll always be behind. However, the point is that she won't be so
far behind that she's useless: at least, not if you don't do *all* of
the quests that are available in Chapters 2-3 actually in those
chapters. Generally I split them about half and half - do the most
urgent-sounding ones "now" and the rest "when I get back". There are
half a dozen major-looking quests - some in Athkatla alone, some in
other places, some split across several places.

Generally I try to collect the gold up and go on to Chapter 3 (in
which you stay in Athkatla and surrounding areas) as soon as possible,
then stay around questing until I go on to Chapter 4 when I have about
800k XP for my main character - do enough quests to get you to about
750K, then clear out the headquarters of whichever group you *didn't*
side with, then you'll be prompted with a move on to Chapter 4.

Oh, and by the way... Near the end of Chapter 4, when offered the
chance to take a portal directly pursuing your foe, or travel with
somebody who has already betrayed you once, go with the betrayer - you
will end up in a part of the game you can never reach otherwise, and
find some items that you can never find otherwise. And you'll still
end up in the same place at the real end of the chapter, in time for
chapter 5...

After that, the game's pretty linear, except that in chapter 6 you can
take time off to finally get to finish off all the stuff you couldn't
or didn't do in chapters 2 or 3. Chapter 7 will wait - at least until
you've finished all you want to finish outside of the location where
Chapter 7 is set.

If you have the Throne of Bhaal expansion: DO NOT EVEN THINK OF
ENTERING WATCHER'S KEEP BEFORE CHAPTER 6. Visit the outer grounds if
you want - buy equipment if you want (there is a merchant there, and
she sells the only Potion Case that is available before chapter 8,
which is the beginning of the expansion-set plot, so it can be a good
idea to visit the place early to buy the potion case purely for
convenience) but do not enter the castle - you will get killed. In
fact I generally do not enter the castle at all until chapter 8.

Also, if you have Throne of Bhaal: Once you have gotten past a certain
point in chapter 7 (just before starting off the FIRST "final fight"
with your main foe - you always have to fight the final boss at least
twice, as any good RPG veteran knows - you CANNOT return. Ever. To any
area except Watcher's Keep, and even that only becomes accessible
again halfway through chapter 8 in the expansion. So, don't leave
behind any item that you want to keep, you have to CARRY it with you.
(There is a Bag of Holding - not infinite, but can hold a lot of stuff
in it - available in Chapter 4, and it's in an area that everybody
visits - not the "bonus" area for joining with the person who betrayed
you earlier. There is also another one available early on in chapter 8
at the beginning of the expansion.)

Jonathan.
 
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Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> Actually, the trouble with THAT is, that as Imoen levels up, the rest
> of the group levels up at the same pace... so if Imoen is behind,
> she'll always be behind.

Thanks for all that info! As far as the above quote, won't it be the
case that she gains faster than the others, since they will be higher
than her? So she should catch up to them? She won't need as much XP to
get to her next level as the others will, so it seems like she might
gain two or three levels in the time it takes them to gain one,
depending on how far behind she is.
 
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Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> After that, the game's pretty linear, except that in chapter 6 you can
> take time off to finally get to finish off all the stuff you couldn't
> or didn't do in chapters 2 or 3. Chapter 7 will wait - at least until
> you've finished all you want to finish outside of the location where
> Chapter 7 is set.

Ok, so before going on to chapter 7, I'll be able to do everything in
the game, and with my full party?