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New build -- No POST, fails to shutdown

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August 13, 2010 10:46:35 AM

This is an ongoing problem I've been having with a build. All of the fans startup when I power it up. However it is impossible to turn off via the power button. The reset button as no effect either. I've swapped out the PSU and got the same problems, so it can be ruled out. The mobo has onboard graphics so the gpu can't be an issue.

I'm therefore thinking there is a problem with the CPU or motherboard, though the lack of power to the usb's might suggest the latter? Yet I returned the motherboard to the reseller who supposidly tested it and found it was fine, and sent it back to me. From what I gather, I should get some beep codes from bad RAM, though some people seem to have some crazy symptoms from having bad RAM modules.

Short of returning the components on a possible DOA, or dropping the build off at a repair shop, I haven't got a clue of how to proceed.

A6GMV Foxconn motherboard
AMD 955 @ 3.2 ghz
OCZ Stealth xtreme 600w PSU
Coolermaster 330 case
Seagate barracuda 7200rpm 500gb
samsung CD drive
a b B Homebuilt system
August 13, 2010 11:22:45 AM

Unpluged the RAM completely A.K.A no RAM, then you should here the beeps, if not then your mobo is dead.
a c 113 B Homebuilt system
August 13, 2010 11:45:01 AM

Do the steps on this list carefully:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-perform-ste...

Once you are done there, if no improvement, then my first suspicion would be the ancient chipset on that motherboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I don't understand why they would produce a new AM3 board with a 690 chipset.

The CPU support list claims it will run with a "Z955" Deneb, but it also claims the part is "95W" which it is not, it is 125W. The list has no 125W CPUs on it.

There was a rumor about a 95W version at one point, but I do not see it at AMD. Or anywhere else really.
I just see rumors
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/18692
Only one company claiming to sell it, and they are somewhat shady. They want 50 bucks shipping.

Related resources
August 13, 2010 4:21:34 PM

Yup, it seems like the motherboard isn't delivering enough juice. The site I purchased it from claimed 125W cpu support, but the product has been removed. Suspicious... When I went to check out the specs on foxconn's site I must have overlooked the 95W once I had seen it was compatible with the denab 955. (I've never heard of a possible 95w version). It would explain why the symptoms point to a faulty PSU.

A good excuse to get a nicer motherboard though. I'm thinking Asus or Gigabyte.
a c 113 B Homebuilt system
August 13, 2010 5:42:03 PM

Yes, I do suspect the board either way and it's really not worth much effort.

A simple 880G or 870 board can still be had for less than 100 dollars and will have all sorts of nice features like USB 3.

ASRock is a good choice also, a survey I did once asked what brand mb had lasted more than 4 years without failing. The winner was ASRock. Not scientific but interesting.
August 23, 2010 7:38:03 PM

Got an update. Installed an asus M4A87TD/USB3 870 chipset mobo. Got the same problem again and its starting to get very irritating in its persistance. Same symptoms as in the first post. I guess its unlikely to be a grounding problem betweeen having changed the mobo.

I guess its a DOA cpu. Any of you guys heard a system with a bad CPU powering up but failing to boot and then refusing to turn off?
August 23, 2010 7:38:09 PM

Got an update. Installed an asus M4A87TD/USB3 870 chipset mobo. Got the same problem again and its starting to get very irritating in its persistance. Same symptoms as in the first post. I guess its unlikely to be a grounding problem betweeen having changed the mobo.

I guess its a DOA cpu. Any of you guys heard a system with a bad CPU powering up but failing to boot and then refusing to turn off?
a c 113 B Homebuilt system
August 23, 2010 9:32:25 PM

I can't say I have seen that, but in theory I can see how it might happen.
August 24, 2010 11:31:58 AM

This is getting weirder and weirder. I just tried the motherboard without the cpu to see if I could power it off, but it still wont respond. Mayhaps I've had the misfortune of getting and installing two dodgy power supplies in a row?
a c 113 B Homebuilt system
August 24, 2010 11:49:01 AM

Are you holding the power button in until it powers down?

Regardless, your board can't do anything without a processor except give you a beep code. If you have no speaker then you can't really know what is happening.
August 24, 2010 3:43:17 PM

No, I currently have to turn the machine off at the wall. If the problem lies with the cpu, is it not possible that removing might allow me to power the system down via the power button (I've tried holding it for 30 secs), or do you need a cpu to power down?
a c 113 B Homebuilt system
August 24, 2010 9:33:26 PM

Different boards behave differently at this point. When you hold your case button in to power down, SOMETHING has to be monitoring that contact. This would not be the CPU, but if the board logic was such that it stopped doing anything once the CPU absence was detected, then it would likely no longer monitor the connection.
August 25, 2010 11:43:34 AM

A local hardware store has confirmed my PSU is working properly with a multimeter.

A friend of mine's upgrading from his x3 440 athlon, gonna borrow it to see if I can get my system to boot up. I'll post the results. Thanks for all the help Proximon.
a c 113 B Homebuilt system
August 25, 2010 7:09:29 PM

NP ;) 
August 28, 2010 11:51:10 AM

Damn close to giving up now... My friend's processor was actually an x2 555. Anyhow, after I stuck it in my system I got the exact same symptoms again?

I've tried a different monitor and a different wall socket without any success. The only things that haven't been swapped out are the ram and case. Since taking the ram out has no effect whatsover, is it possible that the case is the issue?

I read somewhere that the case powers the motherboard on by sending a burst of voltage, what if it is not a burst? I.e. equivalent to turning on the computer but continuing to press the power button?

I'm pretty much out of ideas and fear that I'm gonna have to do some breadboarding.
a b B Homebuilt system
August 28, 2010 3:12:06 PM

The frontal panel connectors are in the right places? Did you use standoffs for the mobo (only whwre there's screw holes in the mobo)?
August 28, 2010 4:00:27 PM

The frontal panel connectors are in the right places?

Yep, and it would suggest they are considering that I can turn the system on and get a solid blue power on light around the power button.

Did you use standoffs for the mobo?
I used the required number of standoffs. In fact I was able to check for grounding behind the motherboard by pulling of the front panel, no contact is apparent.
a b B Homebuilt system
August 28, 2010 4:08:41 PM

Then start doing Proximon's link for troubleshooting. See if it works on a table and with the minimum RAM, etc.
August 28, 2010 4:21:50 PM

Quote:
Then start doing Proximon's link for troubleshooting. See if it works on a table and with the minimum RAM, etc.


I'll probably get round to it tomorrow. Family meal tonight :pt1cable:  .

Still, I don't see how RAM should prevent the system from shutdown. I'll try harvesting a cmos battery from another computer and try resetting the cmos jumper while swapping out the battery. A guy on another forum said that motherboards can do some crazy things with they have intermittent/poor power from the battery.

Another possible lead is whether my PSU might have been damaged after getting it checked out via the repeated shutdowns via turning off the power at the wall socket. I'm hoping thats a no since I've got it rigged up to a Belkin surge protector.
a b B Homebuilt system
August 28, 2010 4:49:17 PM

mr pi said:
I'll probably get round to it tomorrow. Family meal tonight :pt1cable:  .


Great, you can test your mobo&stuff on the dinner table. More RAM, dear?


a c 113 B Homebuilt system
August 28, 2010 5:04:12 PM

I've re-read this thread and have a couple comments.

First, don't assume that two dead patients are dead from the same cause.

Second, you need to do that checklist I linked at the start completely and fully. People who are successful at this sort of thing have certain common practices or traits, and the main one is that they ALWAYS presume that they did something wrong. Because usually they have.

I learned this staring at long lines of code back in the early 90's, because computers do not tolerate mistakes. They just don't work when you fail to insert that slash or leav out a e. Or miss plugging in the 4-pin PSU power.

Lastly, order a speaker :p 
http://www.cwc-group.com/casp.html

August 29, 2010 11:22:25 PM

It seems I've solved my problem, it was the case all along... I curse you cooler master.

Anyhow, the case actually has a speaker (should have made this clear earlier), but I suspected that it wasn't working. Since it would take so long to get one in ordered in and I went up to a local car boot this morning and brought a whole computer system for £5 (pentium 1, yay), so that I could hook up its speaker for breadboarding.

First off I breadboarded the old foxconn board with my friend's x2 555, and to my suprise, it booted to bios. Even more suprising was that I eventually got the asus to boot, the beeping was music to my ears. As such I think that there may have been some sort of grounding problem with the case, mayhaps somewhere in the power switch cable? Might have been the standoffs, but odd how they caused two motherboards to ground (I'm still convinced the foxconn had the same problem, only that upon solving it I would probably have got cpu power issues).

Going to get a RMA for the case and will likely end up replacing it with an antec 300. One last question guys, if the grounding problem persists with a new case, would rubber washers on the standoffs cause any issues?

Thanks to all those who contributed to the thread; it Tom's Hardware seems to have a great community.
a c 113 B Homebuilt system
August 30, 2010 1:20:01 AM

Could it have been an issue with the I/O shield or the case USB, something like that? Glad to hear it's cleared up. CM cases are normally quite good but I have no experience with the 330. The 341 Elite mATX is a good cheap case.

I doubt washers will solve the issue, and as long as the standoffs are in the right spot they shouldn't be needed. Possibly current leaking out of the power or reset switches, some inappropriate contact with the I/O shield, a bad USB port.... something like that?
August 30, 2010 8:48:01 AM

I can rule out the usb since I tried powering up without it, and I checked around the I/O shield when I was looking for grounding (granted that I never actually removed it, but I would rather the system had an I/O shield), so perhaps it was some sort of current leakage.
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