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ATI 5870 or GTX480

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a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 11:33:17 AM

I'm at a cross roads, my GTX 295 has died and after much arguing with Overclockers UK and Gainward they will not re-inburse me a 295. If anyone would like to know my story just post here but guanenteed I won't EVER be purchasing from Overclockers UK or Gainward ever again.

Anyway I want the best performance but a 5970 is just too expensive at the moment. I know the 480 is slightly faster but those temps of 90c + bother me. What do you guys recommend?

More about : ati 5870 gtx480

a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 12:03:15 PM

Personally, id say go with the 5870, or ati setup. the fermis run WAY to hot, and 1 480 consumes as much or more power than a 5970, thats dual card vs. single. the 5870 is an extremely capable card, and only loses to the 480 by a margin of around 10%. considering the fact its quite a bit cheaper ($50-100) runs a lot cooler (10-15 C less) and uses a LOT less power (up to 130 less watts at load) i think its the better choice. however, for the same price, you could xfire 2 5830s. 2 will outperform the 5870 by a decent margin, putting them on par or greater than the 480. 2 only cost 400$, and use about 80 more watts than the 5870 in load.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 12:13:14 PM

Thanks ares1214. I'd not considered xfiring 2 5830s. I may go with the 5870 with a view to xfire in 12-18months or so. I've just read an article which put the 5870 at number 5 in the worlds fastest cards, i'm not sure if this will satisfy my needs. I mainly play at 1680x1050 Crysis, FSX but would dearly love to play Crysis 2 later this year with high settings. I thinking the 5870 may struggle with DX11 Tesselation.

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/grap...
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 12:30:13 PM

I would go 5870 over 2 x 5830s, one powerful card is better than 2 weak ones - for a start XFire performance increase is not guaranteed for each game and can vary significantly, but also, you have no where to go for an upgrade without replacing both cards. Start wth a 5870 and when required move on to a second one.

At that resolution you should have no real issues.

Here is a recent review done for the 480/470 vs 5870/5850, unlike most reviews this was done in June after Nvidia have released some new drivers. It is a good read

http://www.techspot.com/review/283-geforce-gtx-400-vs-r...
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 12:36:36 PM

while i would rather have 1 strong card than 2 weak ones, when the 2 weaks ones together are stronger and cheaper, its not a bad choice. but a 5870 is likely your best bet.
July 8, 2010 12:38:12 PM

If your case and PSU is good, which it should be if your in the market for a 400+ video card, I'd grab the 480 and be done with it. They perform amazing, and I seriously doubt it's much hotter then your 295 was.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 12:47:36 PM

the 480 outperforms the 5870 by a small margin. 1 fps in crysis. it costs much more, uses way more energy, and produces way more heat. 5870 is the better buy.
July 8, 2010 1:00:28 PM

Well, 5870 would be better option, less cost, slight low performance, and does not heats up like GTX 480.
July 8, 2010 1:36:30 PM

I would go for 5850. Its much cheaper than 5870 and with overclocking it can beat the 5870 in terms of performance also its more overclockable than the 5870.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 1:47:52 PM

The June review at techspot failed to convince me that the 480 was a great buy, even in Direct X 11 the results were not convincing - when the 5870 failed to be playable so did the 480.

It's a tricky question, the GTX480 IS a better performer. It is a horrible power whore and very hot, but if you are a gamer and want all you can get then technically it is the card to go for. The question comes down to whether you are willing to pay the premium cost for it.

I personally would sooner go for the 5870, simply because I am cash conscious and given the performance difference I would not pay the extra cash for the 480. The noise power and heat are just extra factors to put me off.

However, if money was no object I would get the 480 as I would have a system that could live with the excessive power and heat anyway and as it is a more powerful card I would get it.

...Actually, that's not true - if money were no object I would get the 5970 as that is more powerful
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 1:49:03 PM

Quote:
Pulls more then 1fps better then the 5870....

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/nvidiageforcegtx480launch_032610115215/22161.png

Costs 50 dollars more then the Asus 5870 on newegg...

MSI GTX 480 - 439.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I think of it this way. You have a 1K watt PSU bro so there's no problem with power. So we move onto price. The best 5870 available on newegg is the Asus for 389.99 after rebate. So the question turns into "Is the 480 worth the 50 dollars?" and the answer is YES. You'll never get a straight answer from any of the ati fanboi's on this forum about fermi because 99% of this board owns ATI cards and they have no idea how great it is. All i hear everyday is how hot it runs. Newsflash.. Nvidia has ALWAYS ran hot and Fermi doesn't run any hotter then a 295 or 285 did.

Move onto the "Fermi sucks so much power" Argument. Look below. Those are total system power consumption numbers. A 480 pulls 62 more watts then a 5870 system which isn't that much at all.

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww252/2MCHBoost/powa.png

Go with the 480 because IMO you're going to regret it if you go with a 5870.


at toms it says 1 fps @ 1680x1050:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-...

at toms it says power consumption is 120 more watts at load than the 5870. using the same link, you see it also runs 10-15 C hotter. just because it runs no hotter than the 2xx series, and nvidia has always run hot, doesnt mean those temps are good, or even acceptable. with stock cooling, fermi even is louder than the 5870. the 480 also costs a minimum of 50$ more. so there really is no reason to go for it.

a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 1:52:06 PM

ares1214 said:
the 480 outperforms the 5870 by a small margin. 1 fps in crysis. it costs much more, uses way more energy, and produces way more heat. 5870 is the better buy.

Yep my current setup is:-

i7 920 @3.6Ghz
12Gb DDR3 1800
Corsair HX1000 PSU
CoolerMaster Cosmos S case with 6 fans

I reckon a 480 if and be done with it like you say.

Many thanks for all the replies guys
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 2:07:08 PM

although if anything, the only card i would imagine regreting is the 480 due to its heat and other things. the 5870 doesnt have much to regret about.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 2:08:05 PM

Don't you think the 480 would be better in terms of longer life as once Tesselation becomes the norm it should be able to stretch it's legs more then a 5870?
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 2:12:25 PM

not especially. personally, i stay off the nvidia train (NO im not an ati fanboy) as nvidia cards usually are much more expensive, and run way hotter. but from an honest, non biased point of view, the 5870 is better. yes, the 480 performs better, it will continue to hold that lead for a while, but by the time any of the things you are talking about will be useful, ati and nvidia will have their 7xxx and 6xx series out. trust me, the 5870 will give you PLENTY of performance, if there is some way you figure out how to max it out at 1680x1050, then you are doing something wrong :lol:  1080p, maybe, but at that resolution, you are very safe. especially considering the fact you can always add another, as you could with the 480.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 2:27:07 PM

you can also always oc, as you can for both. and to be honest, if crysis 2 is anything like the 1st one, neither the 480 or the 5870 will be able to play it well.
July 8, 2010 3:26:22 PM

To OP:

Im interested about ur 295 story. Care to share?
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 3:37:45 PM

the 485 will be about 5-10% faster, 20-30$ more expensive, and use 2 8 PIN CONNECTORS for power. thats a max power draw of 360 watts. believe me, i know bout the 485:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/291926-33-here-maybe

imo, one of the better buys is the 470. i admit, the 4xx scales beautifully, has great tesselation and such, however i dont care what anybody says, to hot, too much energy, too expensive, too late. imo, the 480 isnt worth it, id say either get the 470 or 5870. although even the 470 runs too hot, so overall, i say 5870. any of them will max out just about any game @ 1680x1050.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 3:51:04 PM

If your res is 1650x1080 you can easily get by with a single 5850 and later on add another one if you decide to upgrade the screen.

In Warhead I get around 40-50 FPS (Enthusiast)
In BC2 I get around 75/80 FPS (High/HBAO/x8/x16)
In L4D2 over 100 FPS MAXED out
In MW2 over 100 FPS MAXED out

@ Psycho, lol dude the tess advantage is minimal, 4-5 frames aint going to hurt the AMD card especially If he goes CF in the future. Of course you cannot compare NV's tess with AMD's but 4-5 frames is nothing earth-shattering. Plus I would take those tests with a grain of salt, I have a single 5850 and it can do over 60FPS (stock) in BC2 MAXED out @ 1680x 1050 but if you look at the below chart you will see where it shows a MAX FPS of 49.74 :



With the card overclocked to 1000/1275 it can do over 80FPS easy, since all systems vary you always have a margin of error but if I can get over 80FPS with even higher settings than the above chart that normally tells you that its not 100% accurate.


a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 3:55:20 PM

while i do agree with just about everything said up there, if he doesnt want xfire, its better to play it safe and get the 5870, so he really wont need to upgrade later. especially oc'ing the 5870, you should be safe for a very long time.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 4:42:11 PM

Quote:
The 465/470/480 only produce 5-8C higher temps then the 5850 and 5870. Let me see if i can find the article i posted in this forum about it's temps. When fermi came out the online sites all quoted furmark temps. The article i quoted showed that in furmark the 5870 ran 2C cooler then the 480 where in games it was a 5-10C difference. I personally laugh when people bring up the heat issue because on air my 470's barely topped 82C. Hmm.. This gives me a great idea for a topic.

Onto the Topic Of tessellation. The 58xx series can't handle it Period. With Tesselation the 5870 gets rocked by the 470

In a review done on sunday....

Tessellation Disabled :

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/GPU/GIGABYTE-GTX-470-OC/GIGABYTE-GTX-470-OC-72.jpg

Tessellation Enabled :

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/GPU/GIGABYTE-GTX-470-OC/GIGABYTE-GTX-470-OC-73.jpg


The 470/480 produces around 20/25c more than a non-ref 5850/5870 @ LOAD. My last 470 did 85c after 1 hour of BC2 w/ stock clocks. My current 5850 does 58c after 1 hour of BC2 with a 900/1200 OC + bump in voltage. So if the OP has low ambient temp and he can care less about the power draw the 470 is the card to get, if not the 5850/5870 will do just fine.

You have your cards under water so I guess you don't notice the real temp of Fermi on Air =)
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 4:58:46 PM

@ OP, what case do you have, and do you plan on a liquid cooling loop for your video card?
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 5:05:46 PM

BruceOTB said:
To OP:

Im interested about ur 295 story. Care to share?

I ceratinly will here goes:-

I bought a £1645.00 setup in the end of April 2009. Everything was fine until fairly recently I could play games all night maxed out no problem. The problem occurred when I re-booted the system and it would just hang. If i left the PC for a while it would work again. I checked temps and all seemed normal around 80- 85C under load. Anyway it gradually got worse so I decied to RMA the card. I always look after my expensive equipment so I put the card back in the box which was like new with all cables and discs and manuals etc. I got an RMA from Overclockers UK and they returned me another card. Firstly this card was in the wrong box, had no manuals or discs or anything just the card. The card looked in a very tatty condition it didn;t even have the badge on it. Anyway I just wanted to play games so installed it. Everything seemed fine unitl i applied the driver and then it crashed. So I went into safe mode uninstalled the driver and also used driver cleaner. I then re-booted and installed an older driver. Exactly the same thing happened. At this point I decided to re-build my PC. I formatted my drive and installed a clean copy of Win7 64-bit, applied all relevant drivers and lo and behold when I tried to apply the driver for the 295 itr crashed again!!!!. I borrowed a 9400GT from work and it worked perfectly so I decided to RMA the card AGAIN. About 2 weeks later I got a note from Overclockers UK to say Gainward had refused the card as it was damaged. There apparetly was a transister broken off. I called Overclockers and they said they never spotted the damage either. Now under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 they are oblidged to offer me a replacement but as this was now damaged it voided my rights!!!!. After speaking at length to the returns manager (he was very polite) at Overlclockers he was not at all forthcoming. I asked in the end if he would like to offer me a small token as a gesture of good will but he also refused to do. For god sake after spending over £1600.00 on a system and wouldn't even send me a token of good will I was absolutely fuming. I sought legal advise and apparently the only thing I can do is take it to court but must be able to prove I have not damaged the second card. How the hell am I supposed to do that? It's my word against theirs. All I can say is I DID NOT DAMAGE this crappy card they sent to me and it never worked anyway. Also when they look at the RMA dates I got the 3rd RMA exactly 1 day after recieving it. My advise to anyone is avoid Overclockers UK and Gainward for that matter as neither party wanted to help me. I am absolutley sure they sent me a second faulty card. I must now pay for another one out my own pocket. (One last point i'd like to make is i'm a Senior IT Technician for Leicestershire County Council and have been in IT for over 10years. I am very familiar with installing and handling hardware not just some basic home user who doesn't know what they're doing)

I am totally disgusted withy the whole sorry episode!
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 5:30:04 PM

Quote:
Ovr,

Is that with custom fan profiles or with the stock auto fan? I'm not sure why everyone is scared of fermi's heat. I hit 100C with my lady's 470 and she just kept on chugging without an issue. Maybe i'm just nuts :) 


I don't think everyone is scared about the temps, especially if you have good A/C going all day long or lets say you live someplace north where temps are not an issue. My issue was mainly because I live in Texas and the room temp can get quite toasty, especially with a GPU that is exhausting 80/85c. Anyways you know what I think of both the 470 and 480, they are on Top right now and it will be this way till the 6xxx series drops :D  .

My tests with the 470 were done with Afterburner + Fan Curve (fan reached 100%) and temps were in the mid 80's with a room temp of 75c. After 1 hour of BC2 my room temp jumped to 82F and that is when I shut down the PC to re-test with lower ambient. I cranked up the A/C till the room hit 70F and re-tested, again after 1 hour of BC2 the room temp jumped to 78F.

You are not nuts :na:  , you either have nice room temps or you can care less what the heat throughput is.

As far as your watercooled 470's well lets say that those don't count :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 6:09:48 PM

Not quite because those tests were done with the fan on AUTO. Every card differs when it comes to AUTO because some will spool up at high temps and some won't. Put a fan curve on both of those cards and you will see a difference in temps.

If I leave my fan on AUTO the temps will shoot to around 80c at stock clocks. With the fan curve it wont go over 65c.
July 8, 2010 6:12:03 PM

You are paying more on the Nvidia cards for 3d compatibility and PhysX. If that is worth 100$ to you, then go with the gtx 480. If not, go with the ATI card. Tests and reviews on the retail versions of the fermi cards show that the heat and power consumptions are non-issues, as they don't really get all that much hotter than the 4k ati or 200 series nvidia cards.
July 8, 2010 6:41:55 PM

GTX480 is obviously the better card and its more future proof because of much better tesselation and AA performance, you've got a 1K psu so no need to worry about power and as notty has shown clearly the GTX480 isn't any hotter than the ati cards.
July 8, 2010 6:50:04 PM

How much is the Zotac AMP GTX 480 where yoy are as there is
far less heat and noise and you can really overclock it. I was in same position as you and went with 480s and water cooling setup which is something you could consider in the future.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 7:03:43 PM

That Amp editon runs 20c lower than the reference design. Its noted in two reviews.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/06/21/zo...
Quote:
When compared to the reference design, ZOTAC's latest card is about 20°C cooler. That alone is certainly impressive,

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_48...
Also the Palit custom cooler gtx 470 runs in the 70's. Fermi can be tamed, heat wise. I've yet to read about performance throttling or heat stopping successful gaming.
http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/palit_gefo...

a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 7:11:00 PM

Of course it will run cooler, it's a non-ref version with a better sink. Problem is the fact that the hot air will be released into the case instead of out the rear.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 7:26:03 PM

And overclocking/over volting adds heat+power consumption. I don't think thats stopping people or wait, does the 5850 run cooler when you o/c it ? :)  I'm kidding !@
July 8, 2010 7:26:35 PM

It's a much better card and if you have a well vented case there won't be any problems.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 7:41:09 PM

notty22 said:
And overclocking/over volting adds heat+power consumption. I don't think thats stopping people or wait, does the 5850 run cooler when you o/c it ? :)  I'm kidding !@



:lol: 

it runs about the same unless I go over 900/1150 1.2v





Anonymous
July 8, 2010 7:46:17 PM

@OP

Sorry to hear about your problems with OCUK and gainward, I have not had to use Gainward for RMA before, but have used OCUK extensively, my current system (See Specs) is all built using OCUK parts..its a shame to hear a bad experience!

In hindsight, surely you must have known when you opened the Box and saw the condition of the card something was not right, but like us all, the excitement of the game takes over and you do it anyway.. you are not alone there, ive done that with a Gigabyte board before! Learnt from the lesson though, now every parcel is inspected before signoff and any broken packaging is a call straight away with photos to prove before anything else happens!

On Topic.. 480>5870 in Pure performance, Price, Heat and Noise what a card..

I went 5850 just because it will play all I need at 1920x1080 no probs, and can add a second when something challenges it!
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 8:07:10 PM

Quote:
Take that bitch to 1Ghz core, 1250m :) 


I did better than that :D 


Anonymous
July 8, 2010 8:08:12 PM

Ha ovrclkr I have same rog desktop wallpaper lol
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 8:18:17 PM

RoG FTW!!

@ notty22, I find it ODD that HardOCP didn't do a review on the 5850 DirectCU but they did one on the 5830 DirectCU.. i was trying to see what they came up with as far as temps go but I guess they do not want others to know, haha..
July 8, 2010 8:22:09 PM

Lets be honest,

GTX480/470, they are known for noise/heat and power.

Anyone spending £400+ on a GPU, will already have a 1000w PSU,

So left with Noise/Heat

Heat is disapated by fans that also produce noise.

EURGO for someone looking at a £400+GPU, none of these issues are relevant.
July 8, 2010 8:24:53 PM

yup GTX480 is much better and Cygone is right enthusiasts don't care about a little noise
July 8, 2010 8:25:48 PM

PS.

Scan.co.uk currently have

GTX470 for £270
GTX480 for £390

3x470 = 2x480 on performance (almost exactly). Also they pull about the same amount of power,

so its £810 vs £800
a c 217 U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 8:31:48 PM

cygone said:
Lets be honest,

GTX480/470, they are known for noise/heat and power.

Anyone spending £400+ on a GPU, will already have a 1000w PSU,

So left with Noise/Heat

Heat is disapated by fans that also produce noise.

EURGO for someone looking at a £400+GPU, none of these issues are relevant.


I'm not sure where you figure noise is not relevant. Noise certainly matters. I can kind of agree the heat can be offset by higher fan speeds, but I can't agree with you that the noise doesn't matter.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 9:03:30 PM

you all dont understand. yes heat can be solved, temps can be decreased. but you are gonna end up paying 50-100$ more for a 5-20 degrees C hotter card, a card that takes 25-125 more watts, produces 2-7 more dB, and only gets you a few more fps, at best! maybe 5-10% performance increase. the 480 itself already cost 13% more! this zotac amp that everybody is talking about, sure its better, but it also costs 33% more than the asus cu 5870. a 13-33% price increase for all those bad things, and a few more fps, to me just isnt worth it. especially at 1680x1050. most games you play at that resolution will be 60 fps+ so the 480 getting 6 more fps than the 5870 when the 5870 is already getting 60+ really doesnt matter.
a b U Graphics card
July 8, 2010 9:47:30 PM

Anonymous said:
@OP

Sorry to hear about your problems with OCUK and gainward, I have not had to use Gainward for RMA before, but have used OCUK extensively, my current system (See Specs) is all built using OCUK parts..its a shame to hear a bad experience!

In hindsight, surely you must have known when you opened the Box and saw the condition of the card something was not right, but like us all, the excitement of the game takes over and you do it anyway.. you are not alone there, ive done that with a Gigabyte board before! Learnt from the lesson though, now every parcel is inspected before signoff and any broken packaging is a call straight away with photos to prove before anything else happens!

On Topic.. 480>5870 in Pure performance, Price, Heat and Noise what a card..

I went 5850 just because it will play all I need at 1920x1080 no probs, and can add a second when something challenges it!


Yep I had a bad experience obviously not everyone has. I must admit OCUK were very professional and polite but just not willing to exchange the card a second time. Like you say I was excited and just wanted to play with the great fps the the 295 is still capable of. At this point I had already been 3 weeks without the card. Put it down to experience.
July 9, 2010 2:04:57 PM

I saw someone post a very good point here, and I'd like to reiterate it. Someone in the market for an enthusiast grade graphics setup is more than likely going to have the means and/or capacity to deal with the power consumption and heat.

My original point still stands, with this particular debate, the GTX 480 and HD5870 are about as close in performance at stock clocks as two cards can get. If you feel like PhysX and 3D compatibility are worth 100$ to you, then the GTX 480 is the choice for you. If you are not interested in 3D or PhysX, then there is no need in spending 100$ more for the GTX.
November 12, 2010 2:22:28 PM

guys there is no comparison with 480 and 5870..

To be honest I bought mine and expecting it to arrive. I was extremely lucky as I got it 100 bucks totally brand new and shield box. The reason, because my old card failed and I used the refund of it and an extra 100 bucks..

2x480s outperforms 5970 as well. 6870 does not have good OC capabilities and the heaven benchmark with extreme tessellation outperforms 5870 a 100%. The price difference for them is just 20 euro in my country so there is no doubt about picking a card.

I was expecting 580, but it cost 200 extra euros with 23% better performance and I dont think I would ever afford 550 euros for a single gpu card.


The only good thing with 5870 is the temp and noise but have you ever tried crossfire with 2x5870s?? 60+ watt difference and a lots of noise.
I am not a fanboy but a question. Why everybody hates Nvidia..

here is a comparison with gtx480 and Ati 5870 with heaven benchmark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XdsEblVhkc&playnext=1&l...
!