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BG1 - the final battles

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Anonymous
April 17, 2004 11:13:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
a bunch of cheese?

Really?!
Will you say how you do it?

By 'ending battles' I mean the skeleton warriors, the group
hanging around outside of where Sarevok is holed up in, and
of course (and most particularly) Sarevok and co. themselves.

I can beat all these battles easily with cheese - massive
summonings, off-screen fireballs/cloudkills etc. but the ending
sequence somewhat spoils the game for me because I don't have
to resort to these techniques elsewhere in the game.

More about : bg1 final battles

Anonymous
April 17, 2004 11:13:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

kevin wrote:

> Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> a bunch of cheese?

I don't know if this counts as 'cheese', but the way I did it was to
beat a few guys, go outside, heal up, then go back in and fight some more.
Anonymous
April 17, 2004 11:26:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40818482$0$16482$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> kevin wrote:
>
> > Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> > a bunch of cheese?
>
> I don't know if this counts as 'cheese', but the way I did it was to
> beat a few guys, go outside, heal up, then go back in and fight some more.

Yeah, I think that counts as cheese. ;-)
Anonymous
April 18, 2004 2:53:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"kevin" <khiggins2@nyukhouston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Axfgc.11767$Hf7.4059@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:40818482$0$16482$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> > kevin wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> > > a bunch of cheese?
> >
> > I don't know if this counts as 'cheese', but the way I did it was
to
> > beat a few guys, go outside, heal up, then go back in and fight
some more.
>
> Yeah, I think that counts as cheese. ;-)

Mass summonings are not cheese, they're part of the game. What else is
the Wand of Monster Summoning *for* but summoning monsters to fight on
your behalf - both to potentially hurt the enemy, or simply as a meat
shield to stop the enemy hurting you by getting in his way?

Shooting fireballs into groups of enemies who can't see you, is
likewise a potentially legitimate part of the game. I always scout out
ahead of time with a Thief, who is either Hiding in Shadows or
quaffing a Potion of Invisibility, so I *know* that there's a hostile
party up ahead. So, as I know they're there, and they don't know I'm
there, and I know they're hostile, I am more than happy to advance to
a point just out of their field of view, and centre a few fireballs at
the extent of my vision so as to catch them in the radius. And I'm
quite happy to haste up my party first - after all, I have an in-game
way of knowing that the enemies are there, so it's only logical sense
that someone who KNOWS he is about to take on enemies is allowed to
prepare for them.

This is NOT cheese.

Running out of a door in the middle of a tough fight, to rest and heal
up, now *that* is cheese, because in a real role-playing game the
enemy would simply follow you. But you're taking advantage of the OUT
OF GAME knowledge, that enemies do not follow you to other maps and
cannot pass through closed doors.

Likewise, firing a fireball offscreen into an area you HAVEN'T
scouted, on the offchance that there might be something nasty there,
is cheese, because it's taking advantage of OUT OF GAME knowledge
(that the enemies are there). If you've found out IN THIS PARTICULAR
GAME that they are there, fine. If you found out about it in a
previous game, that's not fine, because it's out-of-game knowledge for
the next game, and *that* is the real definition of cheese.

Whereas scouting out an area before you venture into it, with a
stealthed thief, and using the knowledge gained in-game to hit the
enemy before they hit you (you also have to scout the area out to
learn that there are definitely no *innocent* people there), this is
entirely legitimate, as legitimate as summoning monsters from a wand
that was placed in the game specifically for you to use for the
purpose of summoning monsters.

(Now, using a Cloudkill to kill Aec'Letec in Tales of the Sword Coast,
is taking advantage of a game bug, because a mighty Demon from the
Abyss is not intended to be one-hit-killable by a simple 5th-level
spell.
But swarming him with summons to stop him targetting you - when
he tries to gaze at you, you duck behind a monster you've summoned,
just as if it were furniture that you duck behind - that is entirely
fine.)

Jonathan.
Anonymous
April 18, 2004 5:06:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

> Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> a bunch of cheese?
>
> Really?!
> Will you say how you do it?
>
> By 'ending battles' I mean the skeleton warriors, the group
> hanging around outside of where Sarevok is holed up in, and
> of course (and most particularly) Sarevok and co. themselves.
>
> I can beat all these battles easily with cheese - massive
> summonings, off-screen fireballs/cloudkills etc. but the ending
> sequence somewhat spoils the game for me because I don't have
> to resort to these techniques elsewhere in the game.

Guilty in all aspects. Some battles were just impossible to win for me,
without massive off-screen fireballs and cloudkills.
April 18, 2004 6:45:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

kevin wrote:
>
> Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> a bunch of cheese?
>
> Really?!
> Will you say how you do it?
>
> By 'ending battles' I mean the skeleton warriors, the group
> hanging around outside of where Sarevok is holed up in, and
> of course (and most particularly) Sarevok and co. themselves.
>
> I can beat all these battles easily with cheese - massive
> summonings, off-screen fireballs/cloudkills etc. but the ending
> sequence somewhat spoils the game for me because I don't have
> to resort to these techniques elsewhere in the game.

Yes. Including (but not limited to) solo. No summoning, no area
effect spells. Defensive spells/potions (whatever available to
the class / party). Of those, Haste or Speed are perhaps the
most important. Then the best ranged weapons and ++ammo
available.

Is that a cheese?

J
--
Replies to: Njk04s_130_p(at)Ojuno(dot)Tcom
Anonymous
April 18, 2004 10:06:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

>
> Mass summonings are not cheese, they're part of the game. What else is
> the Wand of Monster Summoning *for* but summoning monsters to fight on
> your behalf


I disagree. Summoning a horde on monsters in the finally battle is the
cheedar of all cheeses! :o ) It makes the finally battle way to easy.
Even the game designer agreed, so they put a limit on monster
summoning to 5 or so in BG2.


> Shooting fireballs into groups of enemies who can't see you, is
> likewise a potentially legitimate part of the game. I always scout out
> ahead of time with a Thief, who is either Hiding in Shadows or
> quaffing a Potion of Invisibility, so I *know* that there's a hostile
> party up ahead.


Agreed. However, what is also cheesy is sending a fireball into a
group on enemies who have just kicked your ass and caused a reload.

I do have to admit that I have used both tactics myself! Sometimes I
enjoy a bit of cheese.

Badbark
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd
have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist
Anonymous
April 18, 2004 2:34:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Jonathan Ellis" <jonathan@franz-liszt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c5s910$p1r$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "kevin" <khiggins2@nyukhouston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Axfgc.11767$Hf7.4059@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> >
> > "John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:40818482$0$16482$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> > > kevin wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> > > > a bunch of cheese?
> > >
> > > I don't know if this counts as 'cheese', but the way I did it was
> to
> > > beat a few guys, go outside, heal up, then go back in and fight
> some more.
> >
> > Yeah, I think that counts as cheese. ;-)
>
> Mass summonings are not cheese, they're part of the game. What else is
> the Wand of Monster Summoning *for* but summoning monsters to fight on
> your behalf - both to potentially hurt the enemy, or simply as a meat
> shield to stop the enemy hurting you by getting in his way?






>
> Shooting fireballs into groups of enemies who can't see you, is
> likewise a potentially legitimate part of the game. I always scout out
> ahead of time with a Thief, who is either Hiding in Shadows or
> quaffing a Potion of Invisibility, so I *know* that there's a hostile
> party up ahead. So, as I know they're there, and they don't know I'm
> there, and I know they're hostile, I am more than happy to advance to
> a point just out of their field of view, and centre a few fireballs at
> the extent of my vision so as to catch them in the radius. And I'm
> quite happy to haste up my party first - after all, I have an in-game
> way of knowing that the enemies are there, so it's only logical sense
> that someone who KNOWS he is about to take on enemies is allowed to
> prepare for them.
>
> This is NOT cheese.

I'd like to get away from talk of cheese because it overshadows
the particular problem I have which is that I can't beat these final
battles without the use of approaches my opponents cannot use.

My opponents have lousy in-game knowledge and very little is
legitimate for them. The problem lies mostly with what they don't
do rather than with the things I choose to do. The group that confronts
me outside of Sarevoks hideout, for example, has never sent a scout
out themselves to spot for fireballs and cloudkills as my group enters
the area or even to urge a horde of summoned creatures to move against
the group. Instead of doing these and similar things, they are made to be
more powerful than my group and to wait until I strike. I always know
they are there while they never know I'm there. For me, this makes the
fight nearly impossible to win if I choose to play by their rules and nearly
impossible to lose if I opt for the stealthy area effect approach. Both
approaches lack suspense and I thought that maybe someone here
might approach it successfully in a way that I would find more pleasing.
Anonymous
April 18, 2004 5:04:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"kevin" <khiggins2@nyukhouston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qlfgc.11745$Hf7.9005@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> a bunch of cheese?
>
> Really?!
> Will you say how you do it?
>
> By 'ending battles' I mean the skeleton warriors, the group
> hanging around outside of where Sarevok is holed up in, and
> of course (and most particularly) Sarevok and co. themselves.
>
> I can beat all these battles easily with cheese - massive
> summonings, off-screen fireballs/cloudkills etc. but the ending
> sequence somewhat spoils the game for me because I don't have
> to resort to these techniques elsewhere in the game.
>
>
Did they ever remove the "cheat" in BG1 where you summon skeletons and send
them towards and unseen enemy where they attack that enemy off screen?
It is a good way to weaken or even kill the enemy without actually getting
involved in a fight. #
I know it was fixed in BG2 but not sure about TotSC,
Ian
April 18, 2004 5:08:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

ifm wrote:
>
> "kevin" <khiggins2@nyukhouston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:qlfgc.11745$Hf7.9005@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> >
> > Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> > a bunch of cheese?
> >
> > Really?!
> > Will you say how you do it?
> >
> > By 'ending battles' I mean the skeleton warriors, the group
> > hanging around outside of where Sarevok is holed up in, and
> > of course (and most particularly) Sarevok and co. themselves.
> >
> > I can beat all these battles easily with cheese - massive
> > summonings, off-screen fireballs/cloudkills etc. but the ending
> > sequence somewhat spoils the game for me because I don't have
> > to resort to these techniques elsewhere in the game.
> >
> >
> Did they ever remove the "cheat" in BG1 where you summon skeletons and send
> them towards and unseen enemy where they attack that enemy off screen?
> It is a good way to weaken or even kill the enemy without actually getting
> involved in a fight. #
> I know it was fixed in BG2 but not sure about TotSC,
> Ian

It is still there (v.5512)

J
--
Replies to: Njk04s_130_p(at)Ojuno(dot)Tcom
Anonymous
April 19, 2004 12:21:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

It's still there in BG2 as well, but I don't think it's a "cheat." Summoned
creatures are party members and you can attack with individual party
members, you don't need the whole party on-screen. Now, whether it's cheese
or not, that's different. Personally, I don't think it is, just tactics. The
enemies wouldn't know whether they were being attacked by a band of ogres,
or a band of summoned ogres (unless summoned creatures have a big "S" on
their foreheads:)  So they would have no reason to look for additional
attackers off-screen. Besides I don't look for extra attackers off-screen
with my party, I fight the ones in my face.
I like the 5 creature limit. It's adds some challenge, but I definitely
think that taking advantage of creatures that don't exit a room filled with
a poisonous gas cloud, are barred from going down stairs or to other areas,
or otherwise behave in idiotic and unrealistic ways is much more cheddar.

<me@tadyatam.invalid> wrote in message
news:40827D90.D7FC1B44@tadyatam.invalid...
> ifm wrote:
> >
> > "kevin" <khiggins2@nyukhouston.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:qlfgc.11745$Hf7.9005@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > >
> > > Anyone here beat the final BG1 battles without utilizing
> > > a bunch of cheese?
> > >
> > > Really?!
> > > Will you say how you do it?
> > >
> > > By 'ending battles' I mean the skeleton warriors, the group
> > > hanging around outside of where Sarevok is holed up in, and
> > > of course (and most particularly) Sarevok and co. themselves.
> > >
> > > I can beat all these battles easily with cheese - massive
> > > summonings, off-screen fireballs/cloudkills etc. but the ending
> > > sequence somewhat spoils the game for me because I don't have
> > > to resort to these techniques elsewhere in the game.
> > >
> > >
> > Did they ever remove the "cheat" in BG1 where you summon skeletons and
send
> > them towards and unseen enemy where they attack that enemy off screen?
> > It is a good way to weaken or even kill the enemy without actually
getting
> > involved in a fight. #
> > I know it was fixed in BG2 but not sure about TotSC,
> > Ian
>
> It is still there (v.5512)
>
> J
> --
> Replies to: Njk04s_130_p(at)Ojuno(dot)Tcom
Anonymous
April 19, 2004 5:13:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

ifm wrote:
>
> Did they ever remove the "cheat" in BG1 where you summon skeletons and send
> them towards and unseen enemy where they attack that enemy off screen?
> It is a good way to weaken or even kill the enemy without actually getting
> involved in a fight. #
> I know it was fixed in BG2 but not sure about TotSC,

I never relied on summonings in BG2 to any great degree. However, when I
fought Jon in the elven tree, I sent some summoned elementals and things
to soften him up before fighting him directly. Anyway, I waited and
waited and then everyone went to Hell. :) 

--
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