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NiMH longevity versus mAh rating?

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Anonymous
December 28, 2004 12:28:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Do you think the high-capacity (> 2000 mAH) NiMH batteries
take fewer recharge cycles than lower capacity NiMH batteries?

We have some old 750 mAH GP batteries that are still working
but have already had to discard several 2100 mAh Energizers.
Are some brands just better for longevity than others?
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 12:33:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Do you, by any chance, use a fast recharger?
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 12:53:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Bill Tuthill <can@spam.co> writes:
> Do you think the high-capacity (> 2000 mAH) NiMH batteries
> take fewer recharge cycles than lower capacity NiMH batteries?

You have to be careful about charge termination and temperature control.
A lot of consumer chargers are just the pits.
Related resources
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 3:33:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <41d197a6@news.meer.net>, Bill Tuthill <can@spam.co> wrote:

> Do you think the high-capacity (> 2000 mAH) NiMH batteries
> take fewer recharge cycles than lower capacity NiMH batteries?
>
> We have some old 750 mAH GP batteries that are still working
> but have already had to discard several 2100 mAh Energizers.
> Are some brands just better for longevity than others?

No. Depends on the brand perhaps.

The latest Ansmann 2500 mAh have the same life cycle rating as the older
1650 mAh cells from Ansmann. But that rating is in an Ansmann smart
charger. In a different type of charger that overheats the cells you
would lose rated performance of the cells.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 8:54:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bill Tuthill" <can@spam.co> wrote in message news:41d197a6@news.meer.net...
> Do you think the high-capacity (> 2000 mAH) NiMH batteries
> take fewer recharge cycles than lower capacity NiMH batteries?
>
> We have some old 750 mAH GP batteries that are still working
> but have already had to discard several 2100 mAh Energizers.
> Are some brands just better for longevity than others?
>

Perhaps your applications are different as well. Not many people today are
using 750 mAh batteries for digital cameras. I am going to be testing some
"defective" 2100 Energizers next week in the lab to see how many mAh I can
get out of them. But they were charged in a 1/2 hour charger which may be
too much for them. I do not like to see charge times below 4 hours
personally due to the heat build-up.
December 28, 2004 10:29:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Harvey" <hcohenREMOVE@frontiernetTHIS.net> wrote in
news:B5hAd.1231$UD3.152@news01.roc.ny:

> But they were charged in a
> 1/2 hour charger which may be too much for them. I do not like to see
> charge times below 4 hours personally due to the heat build-up.

Personally, I am not worried about using my 1 hour charger. Sure the cells
get quite hot, sure their lifetime will be shortened. Will replacing these
cells make me poor? They are already over a year old and still working
well, I have already had decent value from them. If they last another
year, that will be a bonus.

Time is short, batteries are cheap.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 10:36:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"MarkH" <markat@atdot.dot.dot> wrote in message
news:6uiAd.7614636$6p.1197531@news.easynews.com...
> "Harvey" <hcohenREMOVE@frontiernetTHIS.net> wrote in
> news:B5hAd.1231$UD3.152@news01.roc.ny:
>
> > But they were charged in a
> > 1/2 hour charger which may be too much for them. I do not like to see
> > charge times below 4 hours personally due to the heat build-up.
>
> Personally, I am not worried about using my 1 hour charger. Sure the
cells
> get quite hot, sure their lifetime will be shortened. Will replacing
these
> cells make me poor? They are already over a year old and still working
> well, I have already had decent value from them. If they last another
> year, that will be a bonus.
>
> Time is short, batteries are cheap.
>

My sister says the same thing to me. But time is long for me and batteries
are expensive. And if people are replacing the batteries more often then
necessary, that is all the more chemicals going into landfills and leaching
into the ground water.
December 29, 2004 1:35:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrousejr@nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote in
news:1104270167.677046@news-1.nethere.net:

> So then what happens when, for example, I put three sets of Lenmar
> NoMem Pro AA NiMH batteries in the Lenmar Pro88 charger that came with
> them, and after they are charged for about 8 to 10 hours (red lights
> out), a multimeter reading shows they have all been charged to 1.4xx
> volts instead of 1.2 volts?
>
> The charge ratings for the Lenmar Pro88 charger are as follows:
>
> AA - 4 x (2.8V DC 200ma)
> AAA - 4 x (2.bV DC 80ma)
>
> Obviously the batteries have been overcharged--since their label shows
> 1.2V--but have they been permanently damaged or is there a way to
> rapid discharge them and use another (better) charger to recharge
> those batteries? Or do the batteries and charger all go in the trash
> at this point?

At the risk of answering a troll - are you serious?

Sorry if you really don't understand: The 1.2V is the voltage under a load,
while charging the voltage may exceed 1.6V, while under no load the voltage
might be 1.4xx. The is nothing unusual about this.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 1:35:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"MarkH" <markat@atdot.dot.dot> wrote in message
news:ZclAd.5523633$yk.836773@news.easynews.com...
> "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrousejr@nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote in
> news:1104270167.677046@news-1.nethere.net:
>
> > So then what happens when, for example, I put three sets of Lenmar
> > NoMem Pro AA NiMH batteries in the Lenmar Pro88 charger that came with
> > them, and after they are charged for about 8 to 10 hours (red lights
> > out), a multimeter reading shows they have all been charged to 1.4xx
> > volts instead of 1.2 volts?
> >
> > The charge ratings for the Lenmar Pro88 charger are as follows:
> >
> > AA - 4 x (2.8V DC 200ma)
> > AAA - 4 x (2.bV DC 80ma)
> >
> > Obviously the batteries have been overcharged--since their label shows
> > 1.2V--but have they been permanently damaged or is there a way to
> > rapid discharge them and use another (better) charger to recharge
> > those batteries? Or do the batteries and charger all go in the trash
> > at this point?
>
> At the risk of answering a troll - are you serious?
>
> Sorry if you really don't understand: The 1.2V is the voltage under a
load,
> while charging the voltage may exceed 1.6V, while under no load the
voltage
> might be 1.4xx. The is nothing unusual about this.
>
>
Yes I was serious. Why would I be trolling?

So I guess there is nothing wrong with the batteries or the charger, yet I
still keep getting "battery exhausted" after less than 100 photos with 2000
mAh AA batteries.
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 2:37:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Fast" chargers are perfectly fine as long as they cutout before damaging
(overheating) the batteries.

"Darin Kaloyanov" <dkaloyanov@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104255232.276275.124550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Do you, by any chance, use a fast recharger?
>
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 2:38:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

NiMh are perfectly fine in landfil, NiCad are horrendous in landfil and
should be set in concrete.

"Harvey" <hcohenREMOVE@frontiernetTHIS.net> wrote in message
news:LAiAd.1242$uI3.990@news01.roc.ny...
>
> "MarkH" <markat@atdot.dot.dot> wrote in message
> news:6uiAd.7614636$6p.1197531@news.easynews.com...
>> "Harvey" <hcohenREMOVE@frontiernetTHIS.net> wrote in
>> news:B5hAd.1231$UD3.152@news01.roc.ny:
>>
>> > But they were charged in a
>> > 1/2 hour charger which may be too much for them. I do not like to see
>> > charge times below 4 hours personally due to the heat build-up.
>>
>> Personally, I am not worried about using my 1 hour charger. Sure the
> cells
>> get quite hot, sure their lifetime will be shortened. Will replacing
> these
>> cells make me poor? They are already over a year old and still working
>> well, I have already had decent value from them. If they last another
>> year, that will be a bonus.
>>
>> Time is short, batteries are cheap.
>>
>
> My sister says the same thing to me. But time is long for me and
> batteries
> are expensive. And if people are replacing the batteries more often then
> necessary, that is all the more chemicals going into landfills and
> leaching
> into the ground water.
>
>
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 2:40:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> the charge must be gained my trickle charging. That's why it's always a
> good
> idea - if it's possible - that you charge batteries overnight even in a
> fast charger.
>

And this information was dreamt in which dream???
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 4:37:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrousejr@nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:1104274910.524776@news-1.nethere.net...
> Hmm... okay, then there's nothing apparently wrong with the batteries of
the
> charger. I guess there has to be another factor as to why I get "battery
> exhausted" after less than 100 photos taken. After all, they are 2000 mAh
AA
> batteries.
>

It could be heavy use of flash or the lcd display. Depends greatly on
camera design. One hundred might be ok for your camera.
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 6:04:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bob Salomon" <bob_salomon@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bob_salomon-4F474F.12332728122004@news.isp.giganews.com...
SNIP
> In a different type of charger that overheats the cells you
> would lose rated performance of the cells.

My thoughts exactly, although there are batteries from a single pack
that perform better than others. I usually purchase twice the amount
of cells I need and, after recharging a few times, I match the better
ones and the lesser ones into equal (but different) quality sets. The
better sets, having similar discharge capacity as measured by a (per
cell) microprocessor controlled charger, last a "long" time.

Bart
December 29, 2004 11:37:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrousejr@nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote in
news:1104274911.882406@news-1.nethere.net:

> Yes I was serious. Why would I be trolling?

Sorry dude, I was just a little surprised that you would think that the
batteries were overcharged because the voltage was over 1.2V. Batteries
can't store more charge then their maximum capacity, if they were over
charged then the extra current would just be turned into heat (not extra
voltage) and the volts would be lower, not higher.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 12:31:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> Hmm... okay, then there's nothing apparently wrong with the batteries
> of the charger. I guess there has to be another factor as to why I
> get "battery exhausted" after less than 100 photos taken. After all,
> they are 2000 mAh AA batteries.
>
one of options is poor match of the charger with batteries. Note that even
you did buy them in a set, it's not necesarry that they are matched . One
company just made a charger, then they lookd for prices of batteries and
they included cheapest for them.
If charger cuts off after 10 hours, it's not enough for 2000 mAh, since
that energy goes only about 60% in charge , while rest 40% goes into heat
build. So, theoretically you must charge 2000 mAh cells with 200 mA
10x1.4=14 hours. In your case jsut leave them overnight, as someone said.
But, in future i reccomend you better charger.
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 12:40:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Pete D wrote:
>> the charge must be gained my trickle charging. That's why it's
>> always a good
>> idea - if it's possible - that you charge batteries overnight even
>> in a fast charger.
>>
>
> And this information was dreamt in which dream???

You really shouldn't write such stupid comments if you don't have a clue...
i can send you a complete article about this from well distinguished
magazine, if you want...
But, if you would have any clue about math, you would calculate that if you
insert 2000 mAh batteries into quick charger which has 2A charging current
and charge time 1 hour - From which dream did you come from if you think
that cells are perfect? What dream do you think heats the cells? (AS i wrote
in other thread :)  only about 60 % of that current goes into charging, other
40% goes into heat...and vital factor is temperature, which just can't be
much higher than 40 degrees.
But, it' no point of explaining...

As i said, don't reply to a topics you don't have a clue about...
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 8:32:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1104274911.882406@news-1.nethere.net>,
dwrousejr@nethere.comNOSPAM says...
> "MarkH" <markat@atdot.dot.dot> wrote in message
> news:ZclAd.5523633$yk.836773@news.easynews.com...
> > "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrousejr@nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote in
> > news:1104270167.677046@news-1.nethere.net:
> >
> > > So then what happens when, for example, I put three sets of Lenmar
> > > NoMem Pro AA NiMH batteries in the Lenmar Pro88 charger that came with
> > > them, and after they are charged for about 8 to 10 hours (red lights
> > > out), a multimeter reading shows they have all been charged to 1.4xx
> > > volts instead of 1.2 volts?
> > >
> > > The charge ratings for the Lenmar Pro88 charger are as follows:
> > >
> > > AA - 4 x (2.8V DC 200ma)
> > > AAA - 4 x (2.bV DC 80ma)
> > >
> > > Obviously the batteries have been overcharged--since their label shows
> > > 1.2V--but have they been permanently damaged or is there a way to
> > > rapid discharge them and use another (better) charger to recharge
> > > those batteries? Or do the batteries and charger all go in the trash
> > > at this point?
> >
> > At the risk of answering a troll - are you serious?
> >
> > Sorry if you really don't understand: The 1.2V is the voltage under a
> load,
> > while charging the voltage may exceed 1.6V, while under no load the
> voltage
> > might be 1.4xx. The is nothing unusual about this.
> >
> >
> Yes I was serious. Why would I be trolling?
>
> So I guess there is nothing wrong with the batteries or the charger, yet I
> still keep getting "battery exhausted" after less than 100 photos with 2000
> mAh AA batteries.
>
I doubt your 2000 mAhr batteries are fully charged after 8-10 hours in a
nominally 200 mA charger. After the red lights go out, leave them
overnight on trickle as another poster said.

Your charger is a simple max V or time limit charger and it charges in
pairs, so it does not cut off as accurately as a better charger. It
might be possible that your charger may have degraded the batteries a bit
if you have charged partially discharged batteries many times, but I
don't think 200 mA will do too much damage. Just leave it on 24 hours or
buy a better charger.
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 8:32:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Bruce Graham wrote:
> In article <1104274911.882406@news-1.nethere.net>,
> dwrousejr@nethere.comNOSPAM says...
>
>>"MarkH" <markat@atdot.dot.dot> wrote in message
>>news:ZclAd.5523633$yk.836773@news.easynews.com...
>>
>>>"Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrousejr@nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote in
>>>news:1104270167.677046@news-1.nethere.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>So then what happens when, for example, I put three sets of Lenmar
>>>>NoMem Pro AA NiMH batteries in the Lenmar Pro88 charger that came with
>>>>them, and after they are charged for about 8 to 10 hours (red lights
>>>>out), a multimeter reading shows they have all been charged to 1.4xx
>>>>volts instead of 1.2 volts?
>>>>
>>>>The charge ratings for the Lenmar Pro88 charger are as follows:
>>>>
>>>>AA - 4 x (2.8V DC 200ma)
>>>>AAA - 4 x (2.bV DC 80ma)
>>>>
>>>>Obviously the batteries have been overcharged--since their label shows
>>>>1.2V--but have they been permanently damaged or is there a way to
>>>>rapid discharge them and use another (better) charger to recharge
>>>>those batteries? Or do the batteries and charger all go in the trash
>>>>at this point?
>>>
>>>At the risk of answering a troll - are you serious?
>>>
>>>Sorry if you really don't understand: The 1.2V is the voltage under a
>>
>>load,
>>
>>>while charging the voltage may exceed 1.6V, while under no load the
>>
>>voltage
>>
>>>might be 1.4xx. The is nothing unusual about this.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Yes I was serious. Why would I be trolling?
>>
>>So I guess there is nothing wrong with the batteries or the charger, yet I
>>still keep getting "battery exhausted" after less than 100 photos with 2000
>>mAh AA batteries.
>>
>
> I doubt your 2000 mAhr batteries are fully charged after 8-10 hours in a
> nominally 200 mA charger. After the red lights go out, leave them
> overnight on trickle as another poster said.
>
> Your charger is a simple max V or time limit charger and it charges in
> pairs, so it does not cut off as accurately as a better charger. It
> might be possible that your charger may have degraded the batteries a bit
> if you have charged partially discharged batteries many times, but I
> don't think 200 mA will do too much damage. Just leave it on 24 hours or
> buy a better charger.

Hi...

The time required for 2Ah batteries at 200 mA
works out to 14 hours.

Ken
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 7:57:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring.com> wrote:
> In article <41d197a6@news.meer.net>, Bill Tuthill <can@spam.co> wrote:

>> Do you think the high-capacity (> 2000 mAH) NiMH batteries
>> take fewer recharge cycles than lower capacity NiMH batteries?
>>
>> We have some old 750 mAH GP batteries that are still working
>> but have already had to discard several 2100 mAh Energizers.
>> Are some brands just better for longevity than others?
>
> No. Depends on the brand perhaps.
> The latest Ansmann 2500 mAh have the same life cycle rating as the older
> 1650 mAh cells from Ansmann. But that rating is in an Ansmann smart
> charger. In a different type of charger that overheats the cells you
> would lose rated performance of the cells.

For the past 8(?) years, we have been using a "smart" charger
designed in West Germany. It monitors battery voltage individually,
and has two settings, one for NiCd/NiMH and one for Accucell Alkaline.
I don't think the modern "smart" chargers are any more sophisticated.

The 750 mAH GP batteries might be close to 8 years old. I suspect
Energizer is more an advertising campaign than a real battery company.
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 6:31:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <41d197a6@news.meer.net>, Bill Tuthill <can@spam.co> wrote:
>
>
>>>Do you think the high-capacity (> 2000 mAH) NiMH batteries
>>>take fewer recharge cycles than lower capacity NiMH batteries?
>>>
>>>We have some old 750 mAH GP batteries that are still working
>>>but have already had to discard several 2100 mAh Energizers.
>>>Are some brands just better for longevity than others?
>>
>>No. Depends on the brand perhaps.
>>The latest Ansmann 2500 mAh have the same life cycle rating as the older
>>1650 mAh cells from Ansmann. But that rating is in an Ansmann smart
>>charger. In a different type of charger that overheats the cells you
>>would lose rated performance of the cells.
>
>
> For the past 8(?) years, we have been using a "smart" charger
> designed in West Germany. It monitors battery voltage individually,
> and has two settings, one for NiCd/NiMH and one for Accucell Alkaline.
> I don't think the modern "smart" chargers are any more sophisticated.
>
> The 750 mAH GP batteries might be close to 8 years old. I suspect
> Energizer is more an advertising campaign than a real battery company.
>

Cute. Energizer is made by one of the biggest, in not THE biggest,
battery manufacturer in the world.
!