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**NVIDIA GTX460 BUST or HIT?**

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July 12, 2010 5:20:28 PM

Today is launching of NVIDIA GTX460 Fermi card.

So far it has been great review from around. Under $200 starting MSRP with DX11 performance increased. And it can overclocked really well.

If you see good reviews or even bad. Please post on this thread to share. Thank you.


BUST or HIT?

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gtx-460-us...



Also,
Palit newsletter released of GTX460. Here are our specs. I think we were the first to release the 1GB version or at least to sell them. :) 

http://www.palit.biz/enews/event/worldwide/GTX460/Palit...

More about : nvidia gtx460 bust hit

July 12, 2010 6:18:18 PM

Hmm lets see. A card that performs like a GTX 465, which is very close to a 5850. This same card, in SLI, also comes very close to the 5870 in Crossfire. With voltage tweaking, the card also rockets past 900 MHz on the core, a 225MHz+ overclock. It is also as cool running as a 5770, and uses the same amount of power as a GTX 260. You get all this for $230.

I'm thinking this is a pretty big HIT. :D 
July 12, 2010 6:32:54 PM

It was a hit, as it gives around the 5770's amazing performance/price but at a higher point, the $199 mark has been unchallenged for far too long, AMD was able to dominate it with a "meh" 5830 simply because nVidia had no answer.
Once again, SLI's superior scaling and maturity makes 2xGTX 460 a very compelling buy.

And thank you for the 1 GB version, the 768MB one has quite a few "drops" at higher resolution.
Related resources
July 12, 2010 7:28:07 PM

Put it this way, if i was looking for a good performance single card or for SLI solution, i would definitely go with the 460 hands down. The 460 will rattle prices over the next 3 months, hands down...
a b Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 7:28:46 PM

Maybe PalitUSA should send me a card so I can test it out and let everyone know how it performs :D 

Based on reviews I've read so far, I'd say hit. Price of a 5830 but performs between that and a 5850, sometimes beating even a 5850 stock vs stock. And great SLI performance. Good power usage. Looks like Nvidia finally made a good Fermi.
July 12, 2010 7:39:13 PM

What do you guys think of a GTX 460 2GB version but it will be default speed? You can always overclock it. :) 

Core clock 675mhz
Processor clock 1350mhz
Memory clock 1800mhz(3600) GDDR5
July 12, 2010 7:44:40 PM

If price range is around $199-250. Of course we wouldn't know the price yet. The 2GB version is something that mid/range card has not reached because memory price is still expensive.
July 12, 2010 7:49:11 PM

I would have to say that if the premium of the 2GB version was no more than $20 over the 1GB version I would likely get it.
a b Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 7:52:28 PM

I can't see much benefit in 2gb version. I wouldn't call myself an expert on the issue, but from what I've seen 1gb is enough for most scenarios. The only time you need a lot more is in the extremely high resolution and texture detail settings. Given that this is a midrange card, it seems unlikely to do well as a 2gb model as the people with 3 monitors are going to be buying the top cards.

As it stands, again from the reviews I've read at anandtech as well as here on toms, the GT460 can hold up to better cards in the lower resolution settings but drops off at the big resolutions. Could an extra 1gb of VRAM help this? Maybe, but then the cards that create a bigger lead at high res only have 1gb themselves.
July 12, 2010 7:56:46 PM

wolfram23 said:
I can't see much benefit in 2gb version. I wouldn't call myself an expert on the issue, but from what I've seen 1gb is enough for most scenarios. The only time you need a lot more is in the extremely high resolution and texture detail settings. Given that this is a midrange card, it seems unlikely to do well as a 2gb model as the people with 3 monitors are going to be buying the top cards.


Or you could buy two of these, which is what I'm thinking of. Besides you need 2 cards for a 3 monitor setup with nVidia.

wolfram23 said:

As it stands, again from the reviews I've read at anandtech as well as here on toms, the GT460 can hold up to better cards in the lower resolution settings but drops off at the big resolutions. Could an extra 1gb of VRAM help this? Maybe, but then the cards that create a bigger lead at high res only have 1gb themselves.


Yeah, I think this card would really need another gigabyte to be competitive with a three monitor setup. However, if its more than $250 I would just go with a 5850 at that point.
a b Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 8:17:41 PM

Quote:
What do you guys think of a GTX 460 2GB version but it will be default speed? You can always overclock it.


Not good. The GTX460 is a hit. If only the GF100 was as good as the GF104... 2GBs on the GTX460 isn't good as its GPU isn't good enough to push 2560x1600 on current games. 1GB is fine for the 1680x1050, or 1920x1080 where the GTX460 performs. In the reviews I've read so far 2GB is a waste. (of course from a marketing perspective I'm sure 2GB cards will fly off the shelves...)
July 12, 2010 8:23:29 PM

4745454b said:
Quote:
What do you guys think of a GTX 460 2GB version but it will be default speed? You can always overclock it.


Not good. The GTX460 is a hit. If only the GF100 was as good as the GF104... 2GBs on the GTX460 isn't good as its GPU isn't good enough to push 2560x1600 on current games. 1GB is fine for the 1680x1050, or 1920x1080 where the GTX460 performs. In the reviews I've read so far 2GB is a waste. (of course from a marketing perspective I'm sure 2GB cards will fly off the shelves...)


2GB is a waste for the 5xxx series architecture. I'm not so sure about the GTX 460 being effected the same. The GTX 4xx series lags behind in the memory department, so this extra amount of VRAM may help quite a bit.
July 12, 2010 8:47:18 PM

Not for at least 1 year, they barely started this gen, both the sub 40 nm process are not yet ready and will probably take a year or so to be mature enough.
July 12, 2010 9:28:00 PM

Definitely be good for retails or system builders. The 2GB will be a hit but for Gamers and Tech savvy people, they wouldn't buy unless it is a good pricepoint.
a b Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 9:58:19 PM

I say it's a hit, and only serves to make the 5830 look even more anemic. I don't know how well it will hold up once ATI launches Southern Islands, but for now the 460 looks darn good.
a c 171 Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 10:39:51 PM

palitusa said:
Definitely be good for retails or system builders. The 2GB will be a hit but for Gamers and Tech savvy people, they wouldn't buy unless it is a good pricepoint.

Only if it benefits from having 2GB, if it doesn't then it will have to be cheaper because that's what the tech savvy people and gamers would pick up on.
July 12, 2010 10:46:33 PM

Let's just say the pricepoint is $249 which is same as the Palit Sonic Platinum. But the 2GB will have default speed 675/1800(can be overclocked) instead of the Sonic Platinum of 800/2000.

Which would you rather pick? haha or neither. :p 
a b Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 10:49:28 PM

Here is a Hard review of 2GB 5870.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/05/20/asus_rog_matr...

Quote:
The ASUS ROG Matrix 5870 Platinum Edition does provide you with 2GB of memory on board, which exceeds the 1GB found on Radeon HD 5870 video cards. However, we found that for the most part this provided us with no tangible advantages even at 2560x1600. Only in Splinter Cell: Conviction did we see a difference, it allowed us to run at 8X AA versus 4X AA on the 1GB HD 5870.


Looking at their review of the GTX460, they had few games running higher then 1920x1080. It seems to me that the GTX460 is just to weak to handle modern games at 2560x1600 where you MIGHT see a 2GB frame buffer pay off.
a c 171 Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 10:58:39 PM

palitusa said:
Let's just say the pricepoint is $249 which is same as the Palit Sonic Platinum. But the 2GB will have default speed 675/1800(can be overclocked) instead of the Sonic Platinum of 800/2000.

Which would you rather pick? haha or neither. :p 

Why would the price be the same if memory is expensive? That just makes me think that your previous comment was either a lie or that your company has been price gouging. :kaola: 

palitusa said:
If price range is around $199-250. Of course we wouldn't know the price yet. The 2GB version is something that mid/range card has not reached because memory price is still expensive.

July 12, 2010 10:58:49 PM

palitusa said:
Let's just say the pricepoint is $249 which is same as the Palit Sonic Platinum. But the 2GB will have default speed 675/1800(can be overclocked) instead of the Sonic Platinum of 800/2000.

Which would you rather pick? haha or neither. :p 


I would likely go with the 2GB version, as I have no use for a factory OC.

4745454b said:
Here is a Hard review of 2GB 5870.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/05/20/asus_rog_matr...

Quote:
The ASUS ROG Matrix 5870 Platinum Edition does provide you with 2GB of memory on board, which exceeds the 1GB found on Radeon HD 5870 video cards. However, we found that for the most part this provided us with no tangible advantages even at 2560x1600. Only in Splinter Cell: Conviction did we see a difference, it allowed us to run at 8X AA versus 4X AA on the 1GB HD 5870.


Looking at their review of the GTX460, they had few games running higher then 1920x1080. It seems to me that the GTX460 is just to weak to handle modern games at 2560x1600 where you MIGHT see a 2GB frame buffer pay off.


Your comparing different architectures. The GTX 4xx series is bottlenecked by memory and memory bandwidth, so 2GB might do some good.
July 12, 2010 11:02:07 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Why would the price be the same if memory is expensive? That just makes me think that your previous comment was either a lie or that your company has been price gouging. :kaola: 


I'm just saying. That's why I put "Let's just say the pricepoint is $249." I don't deal with pricing and I cannot control price. I'm just surveying GTX460 2GB to see if it would be necessary.

As you know making 2GB card are very expensive and especially with midrange card that cannot use high settings at high resolution can be a problem.
a b Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 11:02:36 PM

palitusa said:
Let's just say the pricepoint is $249 which is same as the Palit Sonic Platinum. But the 2GB will have default speed 675/1800(can be overclocked) instead of the Sonic Platinum of 800/2000.

Which would you rather pick? haha or neither. :p 

2gb at the 249.99 price point is not unreasonable. As many noticed the o/c Sonic model sold out fast at that price. Enthusiasts can o/c a card, we can't add memory frame buffer.


4745454b said:
Here is a Hard review of 2GB 5870.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/05/20/asus_rog_matr...

Quote:
The ASUS ROG Matrix 5870 Platinum Edition does provide you with 2GB of memory on board, which exceeds the 1GB found on Radeon HD 5870 video cards. However, we found that for the most part this provided us with no tangible advantages even at 2560x1600. Only in Splinter Cell: Conviction did we see a difference, it allowed us to run at 8X AA versus 4X AA on the 1GB HD 5870.


Looking at their review of the GTX460, they had few games running higher then 1920x1080. It seems to me that the GTX460 is just to weak to handle modern games at 2560x1600 where you MIGHT see a 2GB frame buffer pay off.

I agree, but if you were building a SLI rig with them, overclocked with a multi-monitor system the amount of games/situations you might utilize that memory are more. Imo, there are going to be a lot of people considering that combination. Well at least some combination of SLI 460.
a c 171 Î Nvidia
July 12, 2010 11:04:10 PM

AMW1011 said:
Your comparing different architectures. The GTX 4xx series is bottlenecked by memory and memory bandwidth, so 2GB might do some good.

The keyword there being "might", if it's only one or two frames per second difference then I'd go for the cheapest 1GB card.
July 12, 2010 11:05:37 PM

If i were a customer. And somebody selling me a Sonic Platinum for $249 but then another company come out selling a 2GB version for $249.

Wouldn't that kill all the Overclocked GTX460?

But then again the extra 1GB would cost alot more than $249.
July 13, 2010 1:28:00 AM

How does the non-reference cooler on the three Palit cards compare to the reference cooler and the non-reference coolers on cards such as the MSI overclocked card and the GigaByte 1GB card? Although the Palit card is by far the best-looking, the quality of the cooler is probably more important to me.
July 13, 2010 2:24:55 AM

I really dont understand why everyone "mehs" the 5830... since the release of the amazing gtx 460 the prices of some 5830's instantly dropped now some stores offering $180 with rebate and soon to drop more. The gtx 460 768mb beats the 5830 1gb by 1-5fps, but when playing a game like metro 2033 with physx, the 5830 is no match, the 5850 is not match, not even is the 5870 a match for nvidias physx. but eh the 5830 is great its not "meh"!!! putting that behind me, the gtx 460 is most ABSOLUTELY a hit. :D 
a c 171 Î Nvidia
July 13, 2010 3:01:58 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
It will be a hit, and i will probably buy one if it can run on my power supply.

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1172&ID=15...

If it cant run on this then i'm not going to get one. What is the reccommended PSU wattage for this card?

450w, so you are just in.
July 13, 2010 5:00:48 AM

personally i could see, the 460 benefiting, from 2gb, at the 250 price point, considering it looks to be slightly more powerful then a gtx 285, which had a 2gb version, so why would a 2gb version of the 460 be such a bad idea, at 2560x1600 or on a multi-monitor setup, i can see it really benefiting, from the extra memory

personally i think it may be a potentially new option for people who were looking at a 5870 or a gtx 480, looking at a few benchs the norm for these cards seems to be 90% or higher, which with two of these overclock could potentially beat a 480 by a far margin
Anonymous
July 13, 2010 2:14:05 PM

460 will be a big hit for those on mid range purchases, and SLI figures speak volumes, Limited to max 1920x1200 though but this is no probs in price range, also not a stereoscopic 3d solution at all, 480 sli is what you need + 250 or 9800gtx+ for Physics!

ATI will respond, don't forget how long the 5xx have been out, they have surely not been sitting still and are on the front foot in releases (Still not sure how they leap frogged Nvidia with 5xxx)

Overall though, the 460 fits in very very nicely, massacres the 465 (it has to go EOL) and gives no real need for 480 unless you can only single card or want greater than 1920x1200!

Ill stick to my 5850 though and take the 5850 in GF machine out for my Xfire and replace it with 1Gb 460, best option really!

July 13, 2010 2:19:37 PM

Anonymous said:
460 will be a big hit for those on mid range purchases, and SLI figures speak volumes, Limited to max 1920x1200 though but this is no probs in price range, also not a stereoscopic 3d solution at all, 480 sli is what you need + 250 or 9800gtx+ for Physics!

ATI will respond, don't forget how long the 5xx have been out, they have surely not been sitting still and are on the front foot in releases (Still not sure how they leap frogged Nvidia with 5xxx)

Overall though, the 460 fits in very very nicely, massacres the 465 (it has to go EOL) and gives no real need for 480 unless you can only single card or want greater than 1920x1200!

Ill stick to my 5850 though and take the 5850 in GF machine out for my Xfire and replace it with 1Gb 460, best option really!



Balee-Dat!
a b Î Nvidia
July 13, 2010 4:08:47 PM

AMW1011 said:
2GB is a waste for the 5xxx series architecture. I'm not so sure about the GTX 460 being effected the same...


OK, I'll bite, so what specifically, not simply guessing, is the architectural difference that benefits the GTX460 and not the HD5870 with regards to VRAM? :heink: 

Something concrete please, Thanks! :hello: 
a b Î Nvidia
July 13, 2010 4:17:40 PM

460 will be a hit as long as pricing stays consistent.

It's not a Grand Slam, but it's definitely a home run sofar as in it's going to make it easy for people wanting to buy nVidia to buy nVidia, and it's going to force AMD to react and change the landscape. Even if it doesn't sell stratospheric numbers, those things show that it's a good enough product and a much better result than the GF100.

As for 2GB, it's going to be extremely rare situations where it's beneificial, I can think of a few;

a) GPGPU functions, although it's a little too crippled for it being a dedicated card.

b) SLi, where the added memory will benefit for larger configurations and higher resolutions that now have more resources to throw at it.

c) High res on Older games, or texture moded games, their major resource hogs are big textures and AA not shader power and so they should benefit more.

d) * possibly * surround gaming and 3D vision, there's alot of buffering going on there, so it might benefit, but remains to be see if it's worth it, won't know 'til ya' can test.

For most people though, especially in single card configurations, 2GB will not show significant difference, but is bound to show a few areas where it smooths out low fps drops.
July 13, 2010 4:23:20 PM

Here is what I am thinking:

This round nVidia doesn't handle resolution nearly as well as ATI, atleast if you look at the equivalent memory used. I was saying that the GTX 460 in SLI could benefit from the extra VRAM for surround display, because 5760x1080 is a lot of resolution.
July 13, 2010 4:27:45 PM

steddy said:
How does the non-reference cooler on the three Palit cards compare to the reference cooler and the non-reference coolers on cards such as the MSI overclocked card and the GigaByte 1GB card? Although the Palit card is by far the best-looking, the quality of the cooler is probably more important to me.


Palit cooler has 2-Ball bearing which is better than normal fans. If MSI is not using 2-Ball bearing then Palit will definitely have a edge.


Info on ball-bearing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_bearing
July 13, 2010 6:53:37 PM

palitusa said:
If you haven't seen how the latest scores. Palit Sonic Platinum did really well, close to GTX470 and beating ATI 5830 1GB.

Props to EVGA, Zotac, and MSI. :) 

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-review/23

it have taken gtx 465 down too


gtx 295 still kicking some ass :sol: 
a b Î Nvidia
July 13, 2010 9:07:44 PM

Quote:
a) GPGPU functions, although it's a little too crippled for it being a dedicated card.


Any reviews with numbers on this? I know the 460 has less "PolyMorph engines" then the 465, meaning its tessellation performance isn't as good. (7 vs 11 according to toms article.) Toms article benched the cards in the Unigine benchmark, but are there any games yet where we can have a look?

I'm also not sure if these Polymorph engines play a part in GPGPU programs. For people like me who don't fold or search this isn't an issue however.
a b Î Nvidia
July 13, 2010 11:01:17 PM

From what I've read the scientific community that uses Fermi for computing calculations. Those who don't buy the business class cards , will still want the gf100 cards. Things are missing in g104, the statement, I remember from the article was they could still be used for testing the programs , but there is very reduced performance. Someone can explain that technically better. I'm not sure how that effects Folding@home. If someone finds a article about that, please post.
a b Î Nvidia
July 13, 2010 11:57:51 PM

Well I know it has less polymorph engines which is what it uses to do tessellation. Because it has less clusters chances are there a less other things as well. I think it was toms review that said something about the future would probably be kinder on the GTX465 then the GTX460 because of the changes.
July 14, 2010 5:23:40 AM

It is one of the best cards from Nvidia since the 8800 GT.
July 14, 2010 7:09:30 AM

4745454b said:
Well I know it has less polymorph engines which is what it uses to do tessellation. Because it has less clusters chances are there a less other things as well. I think it was toms review that said something about the future would probably be kinder on the GTX465 then the GTX460 because of the changes.


i saw that, with it's polymorphs down, it probably only as 60% of the tessellation power as the gf 100's but i think this was still a good move for nvidia, I'm sure even on the 460 a few polymorphs, still has a lot more bunch then the monolithic unit on the 5xxx cards, so it can still claim, hey this card has way more tessellation power still, but by cutting down actually got alot better price performance, in today's and the near futures which will still primarily rely on texture and pixel filtrates which the 460 improved on compared to the 465, so in 2 years maybe, when tessellation becomes presumably pretty mainstream, those cards will be obsolete anyways
a b Î Nvidia
July 14, 2010 7:33:57 AM

Most likely. What will hurt in the now is if these aren't folding monsters. Some people like folding so much that they might get a GTX465 if it offers nearly the same FPS in games, but much improved folding numbers. If other CUDA programs offer the same burst in speed you might see the GTX465 remain a "good" card.
July 14, 2010 10:15:01 AM

so what should i buy gtx 460 or gtx 465

i can buy both and i want the best since i m the one who is upgrading from 8800gt the previous nvidia great card

i want to play games at max with some AA too
and by reading this forum i m having an idea that gtx 465 have better tessellation
so what should i go with
i will be gaming at 1280x1024

specs Q8400
4 gb ram crucial @800
xfx 750i


a b Î Nvidia
July 14, 2010 11:47:34 AM

I personally would get the GTX460. Tesselation doesn't mean anything to me, and I don't use any CUDA apps. Any advantage then that the 465 had is meaningless for me. If you use CUDA apps or play a game that uses Tesselation, then you might want to shoot for the GTX465. Frankly the GTX465 is to expensive at $280, you should probably save up that last $70 and get the GTX470.
July 14, 2010 11:52:27 AM

so dose this tesselation effect the gaming in graphics or performance and cuda dose'nt matters to me too
July 14, 2010 12:58:37 PM

This topic has been desticky in top of the forum by Jpishgar
July 14, 2010 2:47:26 PM

i would say hit, its a good price/performance card

though GPGPU people should look out since the Fermi architecture is crippled on the desktop side with double precision and anything below the 5830 on the ATI side just lacks it (I don't imagine there are too many here)
a b Î Nvidia
July 14, 2010 4:35:08 PM

Quote:
so dose this tesselation effect the gaming in graphics or performance and cuda dose'nt matters to me too


It effects both? Enabling tesselation will make things look ALOT better. Seriously better. But because the card has more work to do the performance will tend to go down. It sounds like your not sure what tesselation is, I suggest reading this review of the Unigine benchmark from hardocp. Pay attention to the screen shots, as this is what we might be moving to as time goes on.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/06/unigine_heave...

If you want to see where we are now and what you might see in a game, here is the review of tesselation in DIRT2.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/12/23/dirt_2_gamepl...

Obviously we have a long way to go, but when we get there odds are the GTX465 will have a better chance of playing it. As mentioned however, both cards will be horribly (?) outdated and you wouldn't want to use either one. Thats why the GTX460 makes more sense. Cheaper now, leaving you more money to buy a better card later.
a b Î Nvidia
July 14, 2010 5:40:32 PM

4745454b said:
Quote:
a) GPGPU functions, although it's a little too crippled for it being a dedicated card.


I'm also not sure if these Polymorph engines play a part in GPGPU programs. For people like me who don't fold or search this isn't an issue however.


No they aren't the issue, they play a minor role, most of the functions are built into the SPUs and the TMUs in conjunction with the Caches/Buffers and then it's intentionally crippled to 1/4 DP math rate by nVidia to avoid competition with TESLA products, that appears to be the case sofar with the GF104 (although could be bad drivers/device recognition). The other thing is the arragement of the SPUs, they are no longer evenly distributed, so without crippling they may have an issue with running DP at half-speed like the GF100, it may only be able to do DP at an even lower rate 1/3 or lower (new schedule and buffer constraints too to deal for the new arrangement for handling warps).

An Folding wouldn't be the area to look at most, it's very basic in terms of GPGPU and isn't even optimized to use the HD4K series feature set, let alone Fermi.

MilkyWay@Home does better, but it would be more interesting in economic and particle modeling and Geological work since in those areas they both do serious optimized number crunching.

I haven't seen reviews speak to the crippling in the GF104 but it's pretty safe to say they are still using the 1/4 rate of the GF100 based on results.
!