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Really funny: got the original UT2k4 and can't play it...[..

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Anonymous
December 18, 2004 5:40:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Three months ago I've bought the game in the 6 cd edition, installed (I
already knew and played UT2k3 for two years, with just the issue of a couple
of days-server-down), patched recently with 3339...and, well last night I
was playing on a german server, I guess, when suddenly appeared the weird
message "your cd key is invalid or already in use, please contact Atari tech
support if the problem persists..."

I have to find the funny side of this story before I crash the whole UT2k4
box 6cd included on someone's head at Atari or in the (regular) shop where I
got it 3 moths ago. Beside this, I can't believe that a thief is protected
and can play undisturbedly and uninterruptedly guarded by Atari master
server while I have to find some time early in the morning (when there's
just 10 or 20 people UT-connected) in the world if I want to play on line
the game I've paid for. That tops it all!!!!
E-mailed upon this, Atari simply replied "probably your cd key has been
cloned-go to the shop, try and change your UT copy, in case of problems
contact me". Anything simpler than that? Each 2 or 3 months go back to your
favorite shop, (assumed that they still have got a copy) receipt in your
hand, have it changed and reinstalled, where's the problem? Ok, Christmas
time and I don't want to get angry anymore, I can't help noticing that:
THEY PROTECTED WELL THEIR WORK AND THEIR MONEY AND DIDN'T PROTECT AT ALL US
WHO BOUGHT IT AND GAVE THEM MONEY......
Think about it next time you'll buy an Atari product.
Alex
December 18, 2004 6:14:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

CpT.ParsleY enlightened us with:
> suddenly appeared the weird message "your cd key is invalid or
> already in use, please contact Atari tech support if the problem
> persists..."
> [...]
> E-mailed upon this, Atari simply replied "probably your cd key has
> been cloned-go to the shop, try and change your UT copy, in case of
> problems contact me". Anything simpler than that?

Well, did you go back to the shop?

> Each 2 or 3 months go back to your favorite shop, (assumed that they
> still have got a copy) receipt in your hand, have it changed and
> reinstalled, where's the problem?

Ehm... in your head? I never had to go back to any shop at all.
Besides that, if it keeps persisting you can always email back to
Atari.

> Ok, Christmas time and I don't want to get angry anymore, I can't
> help noticing that: THEY PROTECTED WELL THEIR WORK AND THEIR MONEY
> AND DIDN'T PROTECT AT ALL US WHO BOUGHT IT AND GAVE THEM
> MONEY...... Think about it next time you'll buy an Atari product.

Ok, so you can't stand the fact that some people are so lame that they
steal CD keys. Don't make it look like that's Atari's fault.

MeltDown
--
!For all your UT99/2k3/2k4 questions visit UnrealTower's FAQ section:
! http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
!Home of the FAQs for agut and agut2003.
December 18, 2004 9:02:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

MeltDown wrote:

> Ok, so you can't stand the fact that some people are so lame that they
> steal CD keys. Don't make it look like that's Atari's fault.

Any copyright-protection system that infringes on the enjoyment of the
product by legitimate customers is, imo, deeply flawed.

Cd-Checks are a mild irritation.

Key-checks are a major annoyance to legitimate customers when, as in
this case, they are copied or faked.

Forced registration and system-checks and forced updates (Ie, Steam) are
an annoyance that prevents future business with some legitimate
customers. (Ie, I won't buy another Valve product until they drop this
system)

In all cases, they are counter-productive in that they can force
legitimate customers to explore alternative methods of accessing the
product they have paid for.

Pissed off with having to find the CD to play a game that's installed?
Free nocd cracks are available a few clicks away, why not?

Somebody copied your UT2k4 key forcing you offline? Why not go and
generate your own key and risk pissing off another genuine customer?

It's been over 20 years since anti-copying measures have been used, and
they've actually got more and more intrusive. During the 8-bit days,
some software required a "dongle" before it would run. Damn hard to
download a physical accessory - yet even that was broken by software.

All it does is annoy the genuine users. I think more should vote with
their feet.

--
Flash
Related resources
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 12:23:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"MeltDown" <meltdownUSE@YOURunrealtower.org.imagination> ha scritto nel
messaggio news:slrncs8eq5.61b.meltdownUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com...
> CpT.ParsleY enlightened us with:
> > suddenly appeared the weird message "your cd key is invalid or
> > already in use, please contact Atari tech support if the problem
> > persists..."
> > [...]
[CUT]
> Ok, so you can't stand the fact that some people are so lame that they
> steal CD keys. Don't make it look like that's Atari's fault.

You probably speak so easy because it didn't happen to you
If I was a lame trying to play with a stolen serial I would stay quiet and
wouldn't argue anymore....
As Flash says in the following post, it's more than pissing me off being
kicked from a server having bought an original game,
and, above all, once changed the UT box am I guaranteed not to go through
the same problem, say, in a month or two?
Alex
December 19, 2004 4:26:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

CpT.ParsleY enlightened us with:
> If I was a lame trying to play with a stolen serial [...]

I never said you were.

> As Flash says in the following post, it's more than pissing me off
> being kicked from a server having bought an original game,

I can imagine.

> and, above all, once changed the UT box am I guaranteed not to go
> through the same problem, say, in a month or two?

If that does happen, contact Atari and tell them you don't trust that
shop and you want a new key directly from them. I'm sure they'll help
you out.

MeltDown
--
!For all your UT99/2k3/2k4 questions visit UnrealTower's FAQ section:
! http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
!Home of the FAQs for agut and agut2003.
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 10:35:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"CpT.ParsleY" <spamyourgr@ndma.com> wrote in message
news:%k0xd.48381$C94.42402@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
>
>
> You probably speak so easy because it didn't happen to you



it's not atari's fault that somebody got your key. Just email them with a
photocopy of your game cd and the bad key and they will issue you a new cd
key and block the other one. It is really very simple. And it has happened
to me, that is how I know the procedure.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.ag...
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 6:27:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:02:10 +0000, Flash <NOSPAM@digdilem.org> wrote:

>MeltDown wrote:
>
>> Ok, so you can't stand the fact that some people are so lame that they
>> steal CD keys. Don't make it look like that's Atari's fault.
>
>Any copyright-protection system that infringes on the enjoyment of the
>product by legitimate customers is, imo, deeply flawed.
>
>Cd-Checks are a mild irritation.
>
>Key-checks are a major annoyance to legitimate customers when, as in
>this case, they are copied or faked.
>
>Forced registration and system-checks and forced updates (Ie, Steam) are
>an annoyance that prevents future business with some legitimate
>customers. (Ie, I won't buy another Valve product until they drop this
>system)
>
>In all cases, they are counter-productive in that they can force
>legitimate customers to explore alternative methods of accessing the
>product they have paid for.
>
>Pissed off with having to find the CD to play a game that's installed?
>Free nocd cracks are available a few clicks away, why not?
>
>Somebody copied your UT2k4 key forcing you offline? Why not go and
>generate your own key and risk pissing off another genuine customer?
>
>It's been over 20 years since anti-copying measures have been used, and
>they've actually got more and more intrusive. During the 8-bit days,
>some software required a "dongle" before it would run. Damn hard to
>download a physical accessory - yet even that was broken by software.
>
>All it does is annoy the genuine users. I think more should vote with
>their feet.

So your answer is to do away with all copy protection? You point out
weaknesses and flaws in every form of protection, but offer no
alternatives. Tell us exactly how you 'think' it should work.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You should start drinking prune juice and KY jelly cocktails right now,
that will make things a lot smoother.
-Felatio Love
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 6:37:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

>
>You mentioned that Half Life 2's system is worse. Since I don't have
>HL2, I don't know what they are doing ... could you explain?
>
What he is refering to is Steam. Steam is a kind of front-end for
valve products, which 'validates' your installation online. It also
requires verification via internet to play even single player games.
People complain about it's intrusiveness, and arguements both ways can
be made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You should start drinking prune juice and KY jelly cocktails right now,
that will make things a lot smoother.
-Felatio Love
December 20, 2004 7:59:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Darmok <cooncat.spam@hotpop.com> wrote in
news:6b4bs0941qum0vpavkofe1jjp0f3h3i89l@4ax.com:

> You mentioned that Half Life 2's system is worse. Since I don't have
> HL2, I don't know what they are doing ... could you explain?
>

Go to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action. Look for posts about "Steam". It's
practically all they talk about over there at the moment.

(I'd guess alt.games.half-life is full of Steam debate too.)


stePH
--
If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. The world is our egg.
If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 8:13:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"stePH" <acetheta@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:32oeo3F3irb77U2@individual.net...
> Darmok <cooncat.spam@hotpop.com> wrote in
> news:6b4bs0941qum0vpavkofe1jjp0f3h3i89l@4ax.com:

> If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
> We are the chick. The world is our egg.
> If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
> Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!

What in the hell is this supposed to mean?
December 21, 2004 5:04:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"goPostal" <none@this.time> wrote in news:IRKxd.2286$2n.383@fe03.lga:

>
>If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
> We are the chick. The world is our egg.
> If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
> Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
>
> What in the hell is this supposed to mean?

It's called a "signature", or "sig" for short.


stePH
--
If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. The world is our egg.
If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 5:04:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"stePH" <acetheta@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:32qoqjF3pl7euU1@individual.net...
> "goPostal" <none@this.time> wrote in news:IRKxd.2286$2n.383@fe03.lga:
>
>>
>>If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
>> We are the chick. The world is our egg.
>> If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
>> Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
>>
>> What in the hell is this supposed to mean?
>
> It's called a "signature", or "sig" for short.

I *get* that part, it's the meaning I'm a bit cloudy on.
December 21, 2004 10:25:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"goPostal" <none@this.time> wrote in news:XaZxd.2839$Kb1.257@fe03.lga:

> I *get* that part, it's the meaning I'm a bit cloudy on.

You've got to break some eggs to make an omelette.


stePH
--
If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. The world is our egg.
If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
December 22, 2004 7:01:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

GTD wrote:

> So your answer is to do away with all copy protection? You point out
> weaknesses and flaws in every form of protection, but offer no
> alternatives. Tell us exactly how you 'think' it should work.

Why not do away with it? Seriously, with the internet is more games'
players homes than not, it's 2 seconds work to find a crack for 95% of
recent releases.

But to answer your point, it's THEIR job to find a way to make their
products attract to me, the consumer. Valve have gone too far in one
direction and that has made their products so unattractive to me that
unless it's fixed, I won't be their customer any longer.

I can put up with some hoop-jumping, but too much and it makes me
frustrated and angry. It shouldn't be like this.

--
Flash
December 23, 2004 2:49:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Flash enlightened us with:
> Fair enough, but you'd think that in some 20 plus years of trying
> they'd have made some progress,wouldn't you?

Problem is, the crackers also have some 20 plus years of experience
;-)

> Locking a door keeps the majority of non-determined people out. The
> big difference here, is that that minority - in computer software
> terms, can enable the majority to break other doors with ease.

The problem is: the lock is at someone's house, where the person can
do whatever he wants without raising suspicion. A real lock on your
door is at _your_ house.

> Why should somebody go cap-in-hand to Epic or Valve to re-enable a
> legitimate copy of the game after somebody else has screwed their
> key up? Shouldn't these companies apologise for enforcing poor copy
> protection, instead of treating such requests with suspicion and
> making you feel like a criminal?

I had trouble reading my key of Neverwinter Nights. Sent them an
email, and got some tips in decyphering their really lousy font. It
worked fine. In that same email they offered to give me a new key if I
couldn't figure things out. At no point did I feel like a criminal.

MeltDown
--
!For all your UT99/2k3/2k4 questions visit UnrealTower's FAQ section:
! http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
!Home of the FAQs for agut and agut2003.
January 5, 2005 10:58:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Kylesb wrote:

> | Yes, I appreciate that. That they expected to get away with it
> without public complaint shows significant arrogance, imo.
>
> An attempt to prevent copyright theft is arrogance? your value system
> must be dramatically different from mine then.

Am I not explaining myself clearly enough?

It's not the aim that bothers me, merely the process employed. One that
affects the enjoyment of the product imo.

And I *know* it's not just me being dogmatic and "anti-us" and
arguementative about this, a glance at any web forum and many other
newsgroups that gather FPS's in their target says I'm just one of many
disaffected and annoyed people all over the world.

> | Re-trying the same old ideas with a stronger stick is not that great
> | step forward. I can't see why you think it would be.

> An alternative approach is a stronger stick? Perhaps the
> effectiveness thereof has offended you.

Why should it? As I said before, I bought the game. If I had
copied/stolen it (as you seem to be implying) I wouldn't be nearly as vocal.

> | This isn't an anti-us rant, it's trying to drum into a particularly
> | unreceptive skull that the "american way" is not the ONLY way. I
> fully
> | expect to fail in this as your attitude so far as been one of
> entrenched
> | dogma and insult. If you do want an anti-us rant, others and betters
> | have done much better jobs than me and, let's face it, we're hardly
> | short of ammunition.
> Sure sounds like an anti-US rant to me.

It does? I thought it was an anti-arrogance rant. If the two are close
enough to be indistinguishable at times, not my fault.

> | Please explain just why should China should allow its citizens to be
> | prosecuted by an American company?
> The answer to this question is quite simple: China has chosen to enter
> into a treaty that requires its citizens respect the copyright rights
> of authors from foreign countries.

Ack, I got this wrong. I was taking a 1989 reference that stated
emphatically that China had not then entered into the Berne convention.
(In fact, America itself had only just entered, significantly behind
most others). They have since joined so I was wrong.

> It appears the underlying thrust of your "anti-US" commentary emanates
> from the fact that a US company is responsible for disabling a CD key.

No, you're quite quite wrong about this. My problem is not that Valve is
an American product. Epic is too, and I quite happily spend my money
with them.

> Your solution is quite simple, do not buy US produced products.

I will, just not from this particular company until they change their
stance. (As I've repeated several times in this thread)

> I agree with the above paragraph completely, get over it, or find
> another game to play.

So why are you joining in a thread that's been abandoned by one half of
the participating members, thus ensuring it continues?

Don't expect me to meekly accept what is an unreasonable (in my view)
demand and a possible infringement of my civil rights.

--
Flash
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 2:50:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"Flash" <NOSPAM@digdilem.org> wrote in message
news:GpSdnYrAsZ6220HcRVnyvA@eclipse.net.uk...
| Kylesb wrote:
|
| > | Yes, I appreciate that. That they expected to get away with it
| > without public complaint shows significant arrogance, imo.
| >
| > An attempt to prevent copyright theft is arrogance? your value
system
| > must be dramatically different from mine then.
|
| Am I not explaining myself clearly enough?
|
| It's not the aim that bothers me, merely the process employed. One
that
| affects the enjoyment of the product imo.
|
| And I *know* it's not just me being dogmatic and "anti-us" and
| arguementative about this, a glance at any web forum and many other
| newsgroups that gather FPS's in their target says I'm just one of
many
| disaffected and annoyed people all over the world.
|
| > | Re-trying the same old ideas with a stronger stick is not that
great
| > | step forward. I can't see why you think it would be.
|
| > An alternative approach is a stronger stick? Perhaps the
| > effectiveness thereof has offended you.
|
| Why should it? As I said before, I bought the game. If I had
| copied/stolen it (as you seem to be implying) I wouldn't be nearly
as vocal.

There was no suggestion in my comments that you did not purchase the
game. If there is any implication, it is assumed on your part. I
merely commented on your apparent offense taken with regard to the
copy protection mechanism. You are a victim of circumstance, get over
it.

I have written software that used "keys" to enable features or defeat
nagware. I suspect that a minimally skilled script kiddie can use his
computer to "attack" such registration features and find a valid key
given a moderate effort. Even Microsoft's XP activation key system
has been compromised by key generator programs. If you harbour any
anger, it should be directed at the jerks who waste time creating key
generator programs.

|
| > | This isn't an anti-us rant, it's trying to drum into a
particularly
| > | unreceptive skull that the "american way" is not the ONLY way. I
| > fully
| > | expect to fail in this as your attitude so far as been one of
| > entrenched
| > | dogma and insult. If you do want an anti-us rant, others and
betters
| > | have done much better jobs than me and, let's face it, we're
hardly
| > | short of ammunition.
| > Sure sounds like an anti-US rant to me.
|
| It does? I thought it was an anti-arrogance rant. If the two are
close
| enough to be indistinguishable at times, not my fault.

It is unfortunate if some are inconvenienced by efforts to prevent
software piracy. Such efforts do not rise to the level of arrogance
that you assert, in my opinion.

|
| > | Please explain just why should China should allow its citizens
to be
| > | prosecuted by an American company?
| > The answer to this question is quite simple: China has chosen to
enter
| > into a treaty that requires its citizens respect the copyright
rights
| > of authors from foreign countries.
|
| Ack, I got this wrong. I was taking a 1989 reference that stated
| emphatically that China had not then entered into the Berne
convention.
| (In fact, America itself had only just entered, significantly behind
| most others). They have since joined so I was wrong.
|
| > It appears the underlying thrust of your "anti-US" commentary
emanates
| > from the fact that a US company is responsible for disabling a CD
key.
|
| No, you're quite quite wrong about this. My problem is not that
Valve is
| an American product. Epic is too, and I quite happily spend my money
| with them.
|
| > Your solution is quite simple, do not buy US produced products.
|
| I will, just not from this particular company until they change
their
| stance. (As I've repeated several times in this thread)
|
| > I agree with the above paragraph completely, get over it, or find
| > another game to play.
|
| So why are you joining in a thread that's been abandoned by one half
of
| the participating members, thus ensuring it continues?

Maybe I was out of town over the holidays and just recently had
occasion to read the contents of the thread.

|
| Don't expect me to meekly accept what is an unreasonable (in my
view)
| demand and a possible infringement of my civil rights.
|

LMAO, if you submit to the terms of a software license, even a
shrink-wrap license, your "civil rights" are far afield from having
any bearing on the scenario. This is my legal opinion, and others may
differ with my opinion, such is their right, perhaps even a civil
right.

Don't get me wrong, I am sympathetic to your plight, it simply amazes
me you spent so much time ranting rather than take available steps to
"alleviate" the problem, i.e., contact the company and demand
assistance and a free replacement key. Challenge them with a demand
that they identify the location of the other user of your key (their
system surely logs IPs). Consider a small claims court action for
defective product. I don't know if your country has small claims
courts, but in the US, such courts are quite effective to bring large
companies to the bargaining table over trivial value disputes (less
than $100 value).

--
Best regards,
Kyle
!