ASUS Maximus IV Extreme vs ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z

[Zodiak]

Hello all

I am new here but I have a very important question.

I am currently purchasing hardware for a new build, I have 4x EVGA GTX 580 3gb Hydro Copper 2 video cards. I am looking at ether the ASUS Maximus IV Extreme or ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z.

I havent been able to find the answer to what I am looking for.

Frankly, this doesnt tell me anything:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627%20600093976%20600158412&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=280|13-131-760^13-131-760-TS%2C13-131-700^13-131-700-TS

I know that the P67 Extreme motherboard is the older from the two, the Z68 Extreme-Z being the newest one. But from a hardware, feature, overclocking and stability standpoint, is there ANYTHING the P67 version can do that the Z68 version simply cannot?

Also, if you have any opinions on another motherboard that has an NF200 chip and therefore can at least do 3xSLI +PhysX, please let me know.

The information I am seeking is unfortunatly very time sensitive. I do not have much time before I must purchase one.

Thank you very much for your time!

 

[rolli59]

It is a matter of if you want the added features of the Z68 chipset like SSD caching! They should overclock the same.

 

[Zodiak]

But is there any reason NOT to go for the Z68 board over the P67?

 

[rolli59]

But is there any reason NOT to go for the Z68 board over the P67?

Absolutely not! The best chipset to date.

 

[lieutenantfrost]

LOL I just made almost the exact same post. I was planning on getting this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131714

as its the only asus board that offers SLI with x16x16 pci lanes. But now Im wondering if I should get the gene z instead. They said release later this week but who knows...

 

[Zodiak]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627%20600158412&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=280%7C13-131-714%5E13-131-714-TS%2C13-131-760%5E13-131-760-TS

Just did a comparison of the 2, I would go with the extreme-z

 

[lieutenantfrost]

what helped you reach that conclusion?

 

[jaquith]

I am currently purchasing hardware for a new build, I have 4x EVGA GTX 580 3gb Hydro Copper 2 video cards. I am looking at ether the ASUS Maximus IV Extreme or ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z.

ANSWER = NEITHER!!! Won't do 4-WAY and using a Hydro GTX 580 is crazy for PhysX. No P67/Z68 will do 4-WAY SLI. The EVGA Classified P67 never came out

If you're head set on 4-WAY SLI then you're looking at LGA 1366 in one form or another. Otherwise return one of your Hydro GTX 580's.

If you can 'find one' the GA-X58A-UD9 or in production the EVGA Classified SR-2 {270-WS-W555-A2} but it's Xeon only. The last SR-2 build I did was over $12K.

Look at either the GA-Z68X-UD7-B3 or GA-P67A-UD7-B3 for 3-WAY SLI, maybe the ASUS P8P67 WS Revolution.

 

[Zodiak]

Thank you,

Yes I am aware that these boards will only do 3x SLI max +PhysX. I have also done alot of research and have found that a slow video card dedicated to PhysX will greatly impact your entire performance in a negative way.

I had also done alot of research previously into P67 or Z68 boards that and it's true that none of them have 2x nF200 chips on them, which allows for the use of 4x NVIDIA video cards in 4xSLI, you CAN do Quad, but only with 2xGTX 590s, which are individually clocked slower.

Yes you can call me crazy, but I got the 4x GTX 3gb 580s both because I will be driving 3x Dell UltraSharp U2711 27 inch IPS monitors in Portrait mode and for Uniformity sake.

In the future if I move to another board, I can carry my 4 cards with me and then see if I prefer 3xSLI +PhysX or 4xSLI then. Yes better cards will likely be available then, but EVGA has awesome product warranties if one of the product fails

I had considered LGA1366 but my build costs are already in the 6,000-8,000$ range and the Xeon CPUs would have added a few extra thousand.

I think I will go with the ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z for now though. Thank you everyone!

 

[jaquith]

Few things, I've been running 3-WAY + PhysX on X3 HD 120Hz monitors in 3D Vision since almost day 1. I know the costs all too well.

Can you use a GTX 580/590 as a dedicated PhysX sure, you can do anything you'd like. You can run 4-WAY + PhysX if you have the right MOBO e.g. SR-2; when Truby and I were consulting on SR-2 -> http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af254/Jaquith/SLI-PhysX-Chart.jpg

FYI 1 - Dell UltraSharp U2711 27 are excellent monitors, but they're 60Hz i.e. no 3D Vision which requires 120Hz.
FYI 2 - GTX 580 waste of money for PhysX in 3-WAY + PhysX. Your $

I strongly recommend that you go a lot of research prior to spending $6K-$8K. Here's a good starting place -> http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=idx

 

[Zodiak]

I have been working with David for several weeks now on the build

Thoughts were originally for the MSI Big Big Marshal, which initially looked promising, but it uses Lucid Hydra as a chip and not nF200, though there has been alot of misinformation about the board, videos from youtube under the name of MSI itself, showing the board FILLED with 8 of its PCI-E slots occupied with video cards... (would have been a nice thought lol) though we ordered and received the video card after receiving the information.

Testing will still take place since we already received the board and unsealed it. The difference in cost between the much more expensive Big Bang Marshal may compensate for the restocking and shipping fees.

David knows his stuff. He has been interested in the MSI Big Bang Marshal ever since I have showed him and I hope it will succeed but my hopes have lowered significantly, sadly.

I can assemble computers but I have never dealt with water cooling. I had been following David for a considerable amount of time and asked for his consultation and then decided to build a computer with him. He isn't cheap, but he is good. I am the one who insisted with the 4x video cards though. It has been a considerable amount of time since my last computer upgrade but in that time, a regular person would have normally purchased multiple computers.

I understand about the monitors, 3D hadn't crossed my mind until after I received them but to me, picture quality and color reproduction are #1. Besides, I had also read afterwards that 3D panels are directional, meaning they only work in the direction they were designed to be, changing the orientation they are in will not work, this has to do with the polarized glass on the screens.

I also understand about the 4th GTX 580 but I am also paranoid about performance. I really have done much research on PhysX and though it hardly requires a video card as strong, a much weaker video card can lower the your overall performance, so I'd rather overkill to put my mind at rest and I can always go from there if I change motherboards.

Between the build, fees, monitors, triple monitor mount, this WILL be a 12k Build. Money hasn't been spent recklessly ether, the only real indulgence was the 4th GTX 580, so it promises to be an impressive build

 

[jaquith]

Then David will, should, tell you the same as I am and if it's different then look as his stuff or YouTube. I'm perfectly clear about the MSI Big Big Marshal, you didn't see me suggest it. If you choose it CF.

I know my stuff on par as David, and probably built more rigs. The last couple SR-2's were such a pain that the guy he's building now is a referral from me. I don't have the time to make a 'career' out building, and only build locally as a hobby; I own an IDX/REO data company. I told David day 1 that the case he chose for the SR-2 would be just as it is -- Jerry-rigged nightmare. I prefer a 'neater' build that's all in one case and not with a huge Koolance appendage attached to it. No, I'm not trying to build for you.

It's easy to argue against anything if you didn't choose it and defend it to the bitter end. However, 120Hz are a pleasure on the eyes. Having 100~150+FPS is wasted on a 60Hz (60 FPS) monitor. So until there's a high resolution 30" @ 120Hz we both have our shortcomings, and a 30"+ with HD 1920 x 1080 @ 120Hz is foolish.

Q - Why Hydro GTX 580? Why not EVGA GTX 580 + Koolance blocks? David hopefully reduced his fee.
Q - How much is David charging?
Q - What is your full specs?

On a 3-WAY, all water, X58/P67 I charged $1,200-$1,500+ depending on how far off the wall it is and could build my standard all internal/water over a weekend. David is fine, but way too caught-up in obsessive nonsense. Hour research vs month(s) of Jerry-rigging/exchanges wastes time & money with no better the result -- Build what you KNOW or CONFIRMED works only; measure twice and cut once.

Call these guys to compare -> http://www.originpc.com/thebigo-features.asp

Good Luck!

 

[Zodiak]

1. EVGA makes good products and seeing as they made a water cooled solution, we saw no reason not to go with them and yes, seeing as he didn't have to remove the fans and heatsink and then install the waterblocks, he did say he would be charging me less.

2. 1900.00$ I know it is alot of work and I tend to be a difficult customer, I know what I want and how I want it, we have had to change products several times, I just don't have all the hands on experience to do everything I want to. I knew it was expensive, but I have been following his videos and I have no idea how much others charged, not to mention I knew no others. David has been very kind though. He has been able to offer discounts on a few things not mentioned, like a free retail version of Windows 7 64-bit, he has exchanged products for free out of his own pocket, paying for shipping and restocking on expensive products and has offered to pay for half of the shipping. David has been very nice to me

3. Here is the Hardware, though the Motherboard will change

Hardware
MSI Big Bang LGA1155 Motherboard
Intel Core i7-2600K
Mushkin Blackline 16GB DDR3-2000
(4) EVGA GTX580 Hydro Copper 3GB Memory
(2) Crucial C300 128GB SSDs
WD Caviar Black 2TB 7200 HDD
OCZ ZX Series 1250W PSU
Cooler Master HAF X Blue Edition Full Tower Case
ASUS Blu-Ray Burner Optical Drive
4972.42$

Cooling
Koolance ERM-3K3UC cooling Unit
Koolance CPU-370 CPU Waterblock
Compression Fittings Black
Quick Disconnects Silver
Blue Coolant
Clear Tubing
SLI Fittings
1535.00$

Research and Work
Configuring
Researching
Receiving Funds
Buying Components
Receiving Components
Testing Components Individually to make sure they are operable
Testing (4) Hydro Coppers with the Big Bang for Functionality
Modifying Case (if necessary)
Installing Components
Modifying Components (If necessary)
Organizing Build and Wiring
Installing the OS
Torcher Testing Components
Overclocking System
Torcher Testing Components for Stability
$1900.00

Shipping
400$

Total
9013.36$

 

[jaquith]

I just got in, I'll look at this more in the AM. And yeah the appendage -> ERM-3K3UC.

Didn't you two have the LGA 2011 talk? I told all my folks to cool their jets and not waste their money on 'consumer level' products for extreme rigs. A true advantage to when you're not starved for money. All of this is old and major outdated, big-time, in ~4 months. I told everyone to wait. I did a few LGA 1155 builds only after being begged, but to me it's the P55 {P67/Z68} to the X58 {X79}.

I'm not trying to do anything but help you avoid a 'judgement' error.

X79 -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_X79
LGA 2011 -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_2011

32-lanes PCIe 3.0
Quad-Channel
6-Core SB-E, probably 8-Core

 

[Zodiak]

Yes I know about LGA 2011 but you see my computer is in shambles right now, i hear metal on metal grinding and wheezing fans with failing hardware all over. I was very interested in LGA 2011 but no, I am the only one that brought up the topic and by then everything had been paid for and ordered. Ideally I would have liked to, but realistically since I believe its supposed to replace LGA 1366, a build with it would have likely cost me even more and there is no ETA on it, let alone the good motherboards, which take longer then the first releases to come out.

You both may do things differently and both of your options may be alot of money but David has been very helpful and I appreciate that. The extra he is charging he has been able to save me elsewhere and I appreciate it.

Everything has been purchased at the moment so It would be expensive to change now

 

[Zodiak]

I know nobody knows for sure, but how far away can you estimate the LGA 2011 boards to be?

 

[jaquith]

LGA 2011 - best guess November 2011, 16-18 weeks.

MSI Big Bang - only lists 2-WAY SLI and nothing about 3/4-WAY SLI. nVidia gives a BIOS Key so SLI works and if nVidia felt after looking at the specs 2-WAY was it then it's because they felt 3/4-WAY SLI won't perform properly or is sub-par. This has nothing to do with NF200 or Lucid itself.

This setup is going to be another cluster-frack of David, and I would do some serious thinking about financial damage control. At best you're going to be exchanging the MOBO. My plans would be later to rebuild and reuse the SB stuff on another system, and get a new LGA 2011 + SB-E once available.

The Appendage, your GTX 580's where all you heat is, the SB CPU even at 5GHz is nothing like Dual Xeon or LGA 1366 and this can all be internally with a top out or side out 360mm radiator.

(2) SSD OCZ Vertex 3 Series – MAX IOPS Edition 120GB / RAID 0 ; http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/high_end_drives.html
(2) HDD Seagate Constellation ES ST32000644NS 2TB / RAID 1
Case anything but HAF X:
SILVERSTONE Temjin Series TJ07 ; {my style} http://www.million-dollar-pc.com/systems-2009/murderbox/009/murderbox.htm
LITE-ON iHBS212-08 ; combo if ripping/cloning
LITE-ON iHES108-29
PowerDVD 11 Ultra
(2) SILVERSTONE Strider Gold ST1000-G + ModRight CableRight Single Braid

I'm stopping here for 'rebuilding' your PC. Anyone can build an extreme PC, few are artists.

Hardware
[strike]MSI Big Bang LGA1155 Motherboard [/strike]
Intel Core i7-2600K
Mushkin Blackline 16GB DDR3-2000
(4) EVGA GTX580 Hydro Copper 3GB Memory

[strike](2) Crucial C300 128GB SSDs[/strike]
[strike]WD Caviar Black 2TB 7200 HDD [/strike]
[strike]OCZ ZX Series 1250W PSU [/strike]
[strike]Cooler Master HAF X Blue Edition Full Tower Case [/strike]
[strike]ASUS Blu-Ray Burner Optical Drive[/strike]
4972.42$

Cooling
[strike]Koolance ERM-3K3UC cooling Unit [/strike]
Koolance CPU-370 CPU Waterblock
Compression Fittings Black
Quick Disconnects Silver
Blue Coolant
Clear Tubing
SLI Fittings
1535.00$

 

[Zodiak]

Thank you for your input. Yes I am still considering considering LGA 2011 but possible at a much later upgrade. The case I didnt want to spend a few hundred on, the HAF X had the space, is solid and has the expansion I may need in the future, not everyone likes the military look but its not something I mind. As drives go, I was running low on funds so I chose something I was able to cut on and easily upgrade later.

Thank you for your input, I appreciate it

 

[jaquith]

My point is you'd have plenty enough money for the things that 'count' {performance} if it had not been for silly wasteful junk like ERM-3K3UC ($1,200).

Cases are personal choices but they have to have a suitable designing.

All David did was to use stuff from his SR-2 experience and use it on your rig.

 

[scotman]

$1900.00 to build a computer is a pretty good racket. It only takes a few hours to build. I would find someone more reputable and charges the going rate. I been building computer for 10 years and the most I ever charged for building was $300-500 usd.

 

[jaquith]

Throwing pieces together, yes a few hours. Building one with full water would take someone weeks if they never did it before, and 10-15 or 20-30 depending on the complexity. TRUST ME!

Truby is more reasonable that I thought, and $1500-$2000 is a good price. Considering that I know he's going to be running into problems, he's cheap.

My daughter's rig looks very similar to the one pictured except 3-WAY SLI/800D and I've got an easy 30+ hours to get look that good. The hours go off the chart especially if you customize the case, and then there's the waiting for all the custom parts.

Unlike the full air which is hours unless there's customizing of the case.

My fee would be off the chart for the following pure-art of this, there would be no set amount it would be $100+/hour period {guess 100+ hours}:

 

[lieutenantfrost]

LOL Im not even sure what Im looking at in that 3rd image. Does he have separate loops for everything? The Waterblock looks too small? so Im guessing he's hidden it behind the psu? its beautiful work.

 

[jaquith]

Yep the rig on the bottom has two loops, two pumps, two reservoirs, and 4 radiators.

 

[lieutenantfrost]

My god...

 

[scotman]

I agree awesome looking rig but really 4 radiators? Total of 12 fans... not including the fans inside the case. You would have been better off going the external route and install in a koolance ERM-3K3UC which has a hi-flow pump...less all those fans which put off quite a bit of noise.